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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:01:30 PM EDT
I'm curious. I support the war in Iraq and I really wish we'd do something about illegal immigration. If we could only have one, a war in Iraq to help defeat terrorism, or a good solid, well patrolled border, what would it be?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:04:13 PM EDT
A good, solid well patrolled border would keep terrorists out of our country.
Two birds with one stone.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:04:20 PM EDT
Both…

Having said that if given a choice at this point a win in Iraq is a must and not optional.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:05:46 PM EDT
Theres LOTS of places the funding could be diverted from to make both happen.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:06:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Theres LOTS of places the funding could be diverted from to make both happen.



Think Social Programs.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:07:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 9:08:03 PM EDT by 4v50]
I said Iraq. Our boys are there right now and we need to support them. The border can be secured by other means (hey, let the militias get trained by the Border Patrol and placed in fixed observation posts).
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:11:40 PM EDT
air or water
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:14:34 PM EDT
As a person you can't take care of others until your basic needs are met. If you're letting yourself go to Hell, pretty soon you won't have enough of anything left to help others and YOU'LL need the help.

In much the same way, the United States has gone down that road. We bleed for others, we die for others and we bend over and take it up the ass from SO many sources. In not too long we're going to be the ones burned out, broke and vulnerable.

Close up the border. Seal it tight. Kick out EVERY fucker that is here illegally... every single Goddamned one, no excuses, no appeal. Show up again illegally and your ass will spend the next 5 years in prison... that's assuming you survive getting over the wall

Yes, things will be different around here for awhile as businesses and consumers adjust but adjust they will (if allowed to) and THEN we will be in a FAR better position to deal with the evils in this world, when we aren't being devoured from within.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:14:43 PM EDT
this is arfcom...

get both!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:15:32 PM EDT
Iuck Fraq
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:15:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Theres LOTS of places the funding could be diverted from to make both happen.



Get BOTH
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:17:14 PM EDT
Shouldve ran through Iraq like a bowling ball over a trail of ants, then left them in chaos and disarray.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:21:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 9:22:38 PM EDT by ErinMT]

Originally Posted By 4v50:
I said Iraq. Our boys are there right now and we need to support them. The border can be secured by other means (hey, let the militias get trained by the Border Patrol and placed in fixed observation posts).



+1

"Want to secure your country, carry a gun, and be a bad ass all at once but can't join the military for whatever reason?

Come down to the border and be trained for two months by US Spec Ops and SF troops.


Learn:
Unit tactics
Observation skills
Camo and concealment
Legal ramifications
Edged weapons use
Sniper useage and skill sets
Map reading and coordinate relay
Intro to spanish...

And get in LOTS of trigger time on a Class III friendly range.


Food, water, clothing, and ammo will be provided by the U.S. Federal Government.

See you soon!"



Now tell me that wouldn't get a shit load of people down on the border... After a short Psych eval you're on to a 6 week crash course in combat tactics. Then out into the brush to hunt down the insurgents.

Hey, I can dream can't I?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:25:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
Shouldve ran through Iraq like a bowling ball over a trail of ants, then left them in chaos and disarray.



like we left Afghanistan (which allowed the taliban to come to power)?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:26:06 PM EDT
I know it is hypothetical, but it is a dumb question. We are the nation that invented the Airplane, the Light bulb, the transistor, the computer, the Atom bomb, We beat the British, the Indians, the Germans, the Japs, and the Ruskies, and we have the greatest military the world has ever seen.

We could beat the Islamics, and the Illegals, If only we can muster the will.

Now, if you were asking which presents a bigger threat to our way of life? The answer would be the illegal immigrants.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:27:04 PM EDT
The border. Illegal immigrants kill more Americans than terrorists do.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:29:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The border. Illegal immigrants kill more Americans than terrorists do.




Now you've done it...

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:34:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 9:36:31 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The border. Illegal immigrants kill more Americans than terrorists do.




Now you've done it...




Hey, the truth hurts. Illegals kill a shitload more people in drunk driving collisions, drive bys, robberies, random acts of violence, construction accidents, by spreading infectious disease, delaying or preventing medical care by closing trauma centers and ERs, than terrorists have caused with bombings and 9/11.

Of course the 9/11 terrorist were illegals, so you can count them in both catagories if you want.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:36:31 PM EDT
Border
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:37:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The border. Illegal immigrants kill more Americans than terrorists do.




Now you've done it...




Hey, the truth hurts. Illegals kill a shitload more people in drunk driving collisions, drive bys, robberies, random acts of violence, construction accidents, by spreading infectious disease, delaying or preventing medical care by closing trauma centers and ERs, than terrorists have caused with bombings and 9/11.

Of course the 9/11 terrorist were illegals, so you can count them in both catagories if you want.



I want, and do.
You will find no disagreement from me on this one.
Illegals are the greatest threat facing America.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:41:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By ErinMT:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The border. Illegal immigrants kill more Americans than terrorists do.




Now you've done it...




Hey, the truth hurts. Illegals kill a shitload more people in drunk driving collisions, drive bys, robberies, random acts of violence, construction accidents, by spreading infectious disease, delaying or preventing medical care by closing trauma centers and ERs, than terrorists have caused with bombings and 9/11.

Of course the 9/11 terrorist were illegals, so you can count them in both catagories if you want.



I want, and do.
You will find no disagreement from me on this one.
Illegals are the greatest threat facing America.



Our friends and neighbors to the south?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:43:47 PM EDT
If we could close our border, I wouldn't give a flying fuck about Iraq.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:44:51 PM EDT
Didn't mean it as a dissagrement. But someone is bound to see it in a totally opposite direction, this is ARFCOM after all.

I agree with you, most terrorists are illegal by the simple fact that they don't enter the country legally, so you're 100% right that illegals are the biggest threat.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:44:53 PM EDT
Our national borders are more important than 'democracy in the Middle East'.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:34:05 AM EDT
GWB dis-agrees with you, he wants the illegals here. How do I know? if he wanted the problem solved then it would be doing something about it. Instead he labels American patriots as "vigilantes".
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:06:52 AM EDT
Border first. Screw Iraq....oh wait, we already did....
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:08:09 AM EDT
Mexico


Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:10:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 7:14:12 AM EDT by pathfinder74]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
A good, solid well patrolled border would keep terrorists out of our country.
Two birds with one stone.



But not ICBM's.

Using soldiers to defend our borders seems kind of ridiculous... especially when we have a National Guard AND a BORDER PATROL.

Not to mention the money spent on using the military to do it would probably be more than the cost of constructing a wall and implementing other passive defenses against "immigrant invasion".

An let's not even get into how morale, retention, and recruitment would drop when the only incentive would be to sit on an imaginary line to keep people from coming in... and more than likely not even being allowed to engage them (just like Border Patrol agents aren't allowed to know).

Don't fix the problem by creating a worse problem. Just fix the problem by using the solution the way it's supposed to be used... not pussifying it down to the point of it being a joke to anyone who wants to walk on in.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:19:18 AM EDT
The border is obviously the most important.
For without a country to defend overseas there is no reason to fight overseas.
Just think about it for a moment.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:21:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Theres LOTS of places the funding could be diverted from to make both happen.



foreign aid for one
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:26:37 AM EDT
There needs to be a BOTH option in the poll.

I support the war in Iraq. We NEED to be there. We can't just pack up and leave. Not now. We need to continue to occupy Iraq much like we do with Germany and Korea.

Now....

I also have strong feelings about Mexican Military violating our borders. Since Vicente Fox can not keep his troops in line and seems to want to do nothing about it except hand out excuses and blame US for it. I firmy believe that a good percentage of our remaining Guard forces be deployed to the border and engage the Mexican forces when they pull this stuff again. Light these goofballs up the next time they go sight seeing on US soil. It pisses me off when other nations screw with the US, especially on our own soil. Protecting our borders should ALSO be a priority, not "one or the other".
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:27:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sharky30:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Theres LOTS of places the funding could be diverted from to make both happen.



foreign aid for one



Oh, hell yeah! +1
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:27:48 AM EDT
15 percent of you are absolute morons!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:33:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By sharky30:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Theres LOTS of places the funding could be diverted from to make both happen.



foreign aid for one



Oh, hell yeah! +1



Add another +1 to that list.

America has the best allies money can buy. It's about time we stopped taking care of everybody else, and REALLY looked out for our own interests.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:33:45 AM EDT
Both, without question.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:26:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARinKCMO:
Our national borders are more important than 'democracy in the Middle East'.



EXACTAMUNDO!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:07:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combatvet:
15 percent of you are absolute morons!



You make it sound like the problem with our borders just started happening recently and that there is this major direct threat against national security...


I agree money could easily be redirected toward establishing a tighter border... cut all the government handout/welfare programs, cut space exploration (unless there is a sudden need to also protect against both kinds of aliens), cut foreign AID, get out of the UN... wow... imagine how much money we'd free up.

The problem isn't not having enough money to fund the war and protect out borders... the money is there... the problem is getting the shitheads in D.C to stop spending that money on stupid, useless shit.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:26:24 AM EDT
it would not take much to secure to the borders..


i think we show that we mean buisness.. i.e. shot at your ass... after a few times the border will calm down ALOT...



right now every tom dick and harry knows the worst that will happen is deportation... then the start over again...


kill a few .. bet you it stops..

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:28:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Both…

Having said that if given a choice at this point a win in Iraq is a must and not optional.

+1
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:49:32 AM EDT
The illusion of "THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY" is RIDICULOUS when the doors to the American House are WIDE OPEN!......and we pick fights with the Krazies!!!

My wife and I have been hassled by the TSA at the airport more than ANY illegal has at our southern border!

But.......it's all an illusion.........FedGov wants the borders wide open and that's EXACTLY what they got!

Feel safe tonight!?!?!?!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 11:21:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
kill a few .. bet you it stops..



Same thing with the death penalty... make a few more convictions and shuffle them right from the court room to the chair and maybe the career criminals (and the illegals who come here to be criminals as well) would think twice.

I'm sure I and other members here have said several times that people would probably volunteer to sit on the fence for free if it meant they could shoot to kill with no questions asked.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:07:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By nf9648:
Shouldve ran through Iraq like a bowling ball over a trail of ants, then left them in chaos and disarray.



like we left Afghanistan (which allowed the taliban to come to power)?



Russia left Afghanistan, which allowed the Taliban to gain power. Get your facts correct.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:20:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By nf9648:
Shouldve ran through Iraq like a bowling ball over a trail of ants, then left them in chaos and disarray.



like we left Afghanistan (which allowed the taliban to come to power)?



Russia left Afghanistan, which allowed the Taliban to gain power. Get your facts correct.



The ironic thing is that they were only able to force the Russians out because we helped them do it.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:24:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sharky30:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Theres LOTS of places the funding could be diverted from to make both happen.



foreign aid for one



the 1.5 billion sent to the Pali's after the Oslo conference would have been a good start.

wganz

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:44:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:55:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
We fought both the Germans and the Japenese simultainiously so I say...................

BOTH




Now, that's the best answer yet... in true ARFcom fashion. That should have been choice #3.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:27:05 PM EDT
Nah, the point was to try and figure out what was MOST important to each person. Both are important obviously but I wanted to gather some opinions.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:07:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 5:09:32 PM EDT by 338winmag]
We could solve this southern border problem real quick. Just stop providing services to people who are not citizens. Stop with the anchor babies. Stop with the welfare. Stop with the free schooling.

Your an illegal and you cut your arm off. You go to the hospital. You are not a citizen, or someone who is supposed to be here. I guess you bleed to death.

Same with employers. Not just a fine, but mandatory jail time. CEOs laugh at fines, cause they come out of company funds, not theirs. Bunking with Bubba is another thing.

My vote goes to Iraq.

ETA: These fuckers are really ingeneous. They will figure a way either over or under a wall. Remember ladders have been around a long time.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:09:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 5:19:07 PM EDT by BURN]
locking down the boarder in favor of war in iraq is suicide for this country history has shown that isolationism is a very bad thing...but the boarder does need to be locked down..double edged sword...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:14:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 338winmag:
We could solve this southern border problem real quick. Just stop providing services to people who are not citizens. Stop with the anchor babies. Stop with the welfare. Stop with the free schooling.

Your an illegal and you cut your arm off. You go to the hospital. You are not a citizen, or someone who is supposed to be here. I guess you bleed to death.

Same with employers. Not just a fine, but mandatory jail time. CEOs laugh at fines, cause they come out of company funds, not theirs. Bunking with Bubba is another thing.

My vote goes to Iraq.

ETA: These fuckers are really ingeneous. They will figure a way either over or under a wall. Remember ladders have been around a long time.




There you go… illegal immigration is not caused by open borders. Cut out the reward and most of the problem goes away.

Politicians are not to blame… if the American people cared enough the problem would not exist.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:36:43 PM EDT
We could easily solve 2 problems at once here.

1.Secure the border ,with high walls and
Belt Fed machine gun nests every 100 yards,
as well as a mined no-mans land before the wall.

2.Give Americans the chance to use a belt fed machine gun
to play "Whack a wetback" and pay off the national debt
with the proceeds.


I know what I want to do on my vacation !

Besides,if the Middle East gets bad enough that ragheads are a
serious threat,we could get serious and just nuke-em all.
Nuking our next door neghbor may not be a great idea.
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