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Posted: 1/28/2006 2:54:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 3:16:13 PM EDT by FREEFALLE7]
I am helping CRC on recomending the machine gun ban be repealed.

What I would like from eveyone one is, some good reasons on why it needs to be repealed.

These need to be good reasons, as we are going to get them together and send them to Senator Burr.

FREE
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:58:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:01:47 PM EDT
Because the ban was the .govs way of saying "I don't trust the American people"

and I want to say " I don't trust the American government"

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:06:42 PM EDT
I don't know what a "maching gun" is

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:07:56 PM EDT
First, work on your spelling.
Second, because it is an artifical price control not in keeping with a capitalist country
Third, that freezing of the price control costs the gov't thousands of dollars in lost revenue every year.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:07:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:08:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rwinn625:
I don't know what a "maching gun" is

images6.theimagehosting.com/adolflooter8zk.jpg



Much less that they were banned!!!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:09:19 PM EDT
RKBA

The second amendment spells it out.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:10:16 PM EDT
Because MG ownership was unconstitutionally made illegal.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:16:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 3:20:43 PM EDT by FREEFALLE7]

You know I could afford a Full Auto if it wasnt for the wife and 3 kids thing

FREE


Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Because E-7s can't afford full auto.
can't think of a better one, can you?

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:19:50 PM EDT
Spelling fixed

Zig Heil Spelling NAZI Sorry I put this up quick before Dinner.

FREE


]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
First, work on your spelling.
Second, because it is an artifical price control not in keeping with a capitalist country
Third, that freezing of the price control costs the gov't thousands of dollars in lost revenue every year.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:23:58 PM EDT
I willing to help in anyway. I work in D.C. so if you need something let me know. I was willing to go so far as to get a group buy on a lawyer but it didnt go over very well.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:29:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 3:32:56 PM EDT by Planerench]
Economics and constitutionality. Those are the only two I know of. Why you would outlaw (face it they will be gone if not replenished) something that doesn't cause problems (compared to alcohol, tobacco, cars, etc.) just because one group doesn't like it is absurd. This is highlighted by the fact that the federal government is expressly prohibited from infringing the commerce of such items.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:31:13 PM EDT
Sounds good so far keep them coming.

FREE
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:31:30 PM EDT
Because it fucking SUCKS!!!

I think we can all agree to that
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:31:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 3:32:54 PM EDT by mikejohnson]
1. violates 2A
2. criminals don't give a shit about the law
3. NFA '34 should go too because not only does it violate 2A, but it is specifically a tax on a right (there is a precedent about a specific tax on periodicals and the courts said that only a general tax, and not a specific tax on a right is okay)
4. it will create jobs and boost the economy (more guns, a shitload more bullets)
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:32:33 PM EDT
If you think that the existing laws on full auto weapons will ever be changed, you have rocks in your head.

Even if they did change the laws, the first time that a couple of cop cars got ripped up by machine guns the law would be changed right back.

Give it up.

Of course I only say this because I'm not a Freedom Loving Gun Rights Hero (tm).
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:33:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Because MG ownership was unconstitutionally made illegal.



+1

and since 1934 only one legally registered MG has ever been used in a crime and that person was
a law enforcement officer...

LB
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:53:23 PM EDT
Disarmament, Enslavement, Execution

In that order
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:57:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Seriously.
No crimes have been committed by legally owned full auto for many, many years.
They are still legal to purchase, but just prohibitively expensive for all but the richest owners.
Criminals have access to full auto through the same means they have access to drugs.

And the most important reason of all.

The lack of civilian market has stiffled domestic research and engineering into weapons for our soldiers. The genius of browning and stoner has no marketability today so our most brilliant mechanical engineers avoid the field of gun design. If we want to maintain a domestic firearms manufactoring and research and design, we must allow civilian purchase of all types of weapons. Especially those with a military function.
Look at our current inventory.
M249 Belgium
M240 Belgium
M9 italion
M16 50 year old american design.
M2, 90 year old american design.

The two firearms that we looked at to replace our M16 were the German G36 and Belgium FN SCAR.

Throughout history, its been American designers that supplied great guns to our soldiers.
Garand
thompson
1911
M2
M16BAR
M1 Carbine
Grease Gun.
With the lack of domestic market, good engineers are going elsewhere.
The winchester plant in New Hampshire, open for over a 100 years, where the gun that won the west was made, is closing down.
domestic laws are killing innovation in the field that keeps our soldiers alive. We owe it to our armed forces to ensure they have the best, most modern weapons possible.




BRAVO! Best reasons EVER!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:04:53 PM EDT
Because the bans, NFA '34 and Reagan's '86, keep the gun prices artificially high and restrict commerce in a legal product as well as the fact we have the 2A.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:09:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:12:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Like it or not, restrictions of firearms is de facto constitutional. The SCOTUS has ruled and that is the way it is.
You can look at the lack of deaths by machine guns as justification for that.
What you have to debate is why lifting the restriction would be good for Americans.



actually, besides Miller (the shotgun one) SCOTUS has refused to hear any cases so as to avoid making a decisioin...
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:16:59 PM EDT
It's all about the money....... All of the owners of the pre 86 registered mg's would loose about $15,000 average each if it was repealed. I'm supprised there is not more response from us owners when this topic is brought up..........
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:20:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
The lack of civilian market has stiffled domestic research and engineering into weapons for our soldiers. The genius of browning and stoner has no marketability today so our most brilliant mechanical engineers avoid the field of gun design. If we want to maintain a domestic firearms manufactoring and research and design, we must allow civilian purchase of all types of weapons. Especially those with a military function.



This is it, you nailed it. The same liberals that love to ban guns will, in the same breath, boo-hoo that we are "outsourcing" our military weapons and ask rhetorically "why don't our troops have the best stuff?"
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:20:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 4:22:12 PM EDT by gmtmaster]

Originally Posted By johnthreesixteen:
It's all about the money....... All of the owners of the pre 86 registered mg's would loose about $15,000 average each if it was repealed. I'm supprised there is not more response from us owners when this topic is brought up..........



Not true for me.....
Id volunteer to lose my 11K if I could have a new M16 instead of a 20 year old one.


How many NEW MGs could YOU buy if a Mac was 400.00 like it should be, or an M16 was 750.00 like it should be..

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:22:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 10:05:44 PM EDT by ImplementOfWar]
1. Terrorists and criminals are becoming more sophisticated and better armed.
2. The government is federalizing powers that they are not allowed to. Hence there is now more then ever a legitimate reason to need our 2nd amendment to provide that check and balance to liberty.
3. The 2nd Amendment says we are allowed to own them.
4. The federal government has no power to regulate arms that are not involved in interstate commerce. They have laws that outlaw the possesion of machine guns even in the boundaries of your own State (and having nothing to do with interstate commerce) which is unconstitutional.
5. Those willing to give up liberty for security, deserve neither.
6. America is turning into disneyland. We need open carry laws to remind people that evil exists and that you can die in a nanosecond at any given time. We need to 'toughen' up by making US citizens more aware of reality by having them own machine guns and to allow people to carry them.
7. Capitalism is not working, and if it ever changes, it will probably have to be by force. We have a huge debt, massive defense complex, and it is nearly at the point of no return. Any day we could be herded into concentration camps by the elite with their hundred billion dollar mind control super radio of death. A standing army is the greatest bane to freedom according to the founding fathers. They means you are helpless when you are ruled by a miniroty with all the weapons and technology.
8. Nuclear war is imminent. Laser death beams from space are anyday now. Neutron bombs are a possibility. asteroid strikes, tornados, hurricanes, and earthwuakes could collapse society into anarchy at any moment in time.
9. It sets a bad precedant to allow the government to conduct the degree of arms control it does on US citizens. I cant see machine guns as being 'reasonable' to ban.
10. If you look at the majority of the world, those countries are stinking cesspits. We would be idiots to think we arent one day going to be the slaves again in some form. We are dumb to think we arent living in a police state. We are dumb to think our intelligence agencies have integrity and honor at all times. We absolutely need to uphold the 2nd amendment at all costs.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:22:39 PM EDT
I am thinking really hard about purchasing an M16 with my Christmas bonus next year ... however, I really worry about the ban being repealled and me losing on a $15,000 investment. We had the Assualt Rifle ban for ten years and look at all the folks that lost big bucks betting that it was indefinite and buying up pre-ban rifles to sell for a profit. If a nice registered M16 was setting me back $3K ... no big deal ... but $15K is a big deal!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:23:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By johnthreesixteen:
It's all about the money....... All of the owners of the pre 86 registered mg's would loose about $15,000 average each if it was repealed. I'm supprised there is not more response from us owners when this topic is brought up..........



I don't see how a small group of people have such control over the MG issue.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:37:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By johnthreesixteen:
It's all about the money....... All of the owners of the pre 86 registered mg's would loose about $15,000 average each if it was repealed. I'm supprised there is not more response from us owners when this topic is brought up..........



Not true for me.....
Id volunteer to lose my 11K if I could have a new M16 instead of a 20 year old one.


How many NEW MGs could YOU buy if a Mac was 400.00 like it should be, or an M16 was 750.00 like it should be..


It would be nice to buy auto's for under a grand. I just worked really hard for a long time to save enough money to play the stupid game to get mine and it would hurt to loose that much value in one day. That's what I get for playing stupid games.....Selfish, maybe. Okay, Uncle, repeal it .
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:46:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 4:46:33 PM EDT by KorpiszZ389]
Because it's teh ghey, among other reasons already listed.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:54:40 PM EDT
It shouldn't, police should have absolute dominance over the civilian population.......Sieg Hail
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:04:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 5:14:57 PM EDT by TrashHeap]
Because it is unconstitutional. According to my States Constitution, I have the personal right to keep and bear arms for the protection of self, property and State as well as for hunting and sporting . A well regulated milita, the word "regulated" here meaning, up-to-date and capable of warfare." How can a citizen be prepared to defend their State or Country with single or semi automatic small arms?


3 entries found for infringe.
in·fringe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-frnj)
v. in·fringed, in·fring·ing, in·fring·es
v. tr.
To transgress or exceed the limits of; violate: infringe a contract; infringe a patent.
Obsolete. To defeat; invalidate.

v. intr.
To encroach on someone or something; engage in trespassing: an increased workload (TAX) that infringed on his personal life (LIBERTIES).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Latin nfringere, to destroy : in-, intensive pref.; see in-2 + frangere, to break; see bhreg- in Indo-European Roots.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in·fringer n.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:44:59 PM EDT
Creates Jobs in the US:
-firearms manufacturing
-ammo manufacturing
-ranges
-accessories sales (optics, parts, cleaning supply, etc)
-wildlife management (see taxes)
-education (gunsmiths, police trainers, civilian trainers)
-foreign trade (see below)
-increases tourism
-metal manufacturing (steal, aluminum, brass, lead, etc)
-accountants
-lawyers
-toxic waste cleanup

Relieves Unemployment by creating jobs. Thus saves the .gov money and makes it money in collected taxes.

Increase Tax:
-income tax
-sales tax
-1934 transfer tax
-tax on ammo goes to wildlife management

Foreign Trade:
-NAFTA Chapter 11 is a free trade zone between Canada, US and Mexico. In NAFTA Tribunal court if one country is found to be blocking another’s goods then that country has to either change their laws or pay for loss of market.
-CAFTA I have not heard but I bet there is a similar one chapter here.

You will need good numbers for all of this otherwise it is just a wild ass guess and will mean nothing.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:45:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
I am thinking really hard about purchasing an M16 with my Christmas bonus next year ... however, I really worry about the ban being repealled and me losing on a $15,000 investment. We had the Assualt Rifle ban for ten years and look at all the folks that lost big bucks betting that it was indefinite and buying up pre-ban rifles to sell for a profit. If a nice registered M16 was setting me back $3K ... no big deal ... but $15K is a big deal!



So, freedom is ok as long as you don't lose your investment?

Nice attitude. I have a suggestion, stay out of the market.

Bob

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:47:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 6:48:08 PM EDT by Triumph955i]

Originally Posted By Ky_Bob:

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
I am thinking really hard about purchasing an M16 with my Christmas bonus next year ... however, I really worry about the ban being repealled and me losing on a $15,000 investment. We had the Assualt Rifle ban for ten years and look at all the folks that lost big bucks betting that it was indefinite and buying up pre-ban rifles to sell for a profit. If a nice registered M16 was setting me back $3K ... no big deal ... but $15K is a big deal!



So, freedom is ok as long as you don't lose your investment?

Nice attitude. I have a suggestion, stay out of the market.

Bob




+1

It's a douchebag veiw of firearms ownership.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:17:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
I am thinking really hard about purchasing an M16 with my Christmas bonus next year ... however, I really worry about the ban being repealled and me losing on a $15,000 investment. We had the Assualt Rifle ban for ten years and look at all the folks that lost big bucks betting that it was indefinite and buying up pre-ban rifles to sell for a profit. If a nice registered M16 was setting me back $3K ... no big deal ... but $15K is a big deal!



I REPEAT:

ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT A POLITICIAN WILL BACK LEGISLATION SOFTENING THE EXISTING LAWS REGARDING MACHINE GUNS...

IS DREAMING.

Who in his right mind would touch that issue?

Heck, most gun owners won't even join the NRA, much less elect a congress of hard core gun guys.


FORGET IT. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN 1,000,000 YEARS.

NEVER

Someday I hope to buy a tommy gun. I will lay down my money without a second thought. The only direction the price is going is up.

Deal with it.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:21:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7: What I would like from eveyone one is, some good reasons on why it needs to be repealed.
So that criminals will wonder if the citizen they are about to victimize has a pistol or a bullet hose.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:24:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
I am thinking really hard about purchasing an M16 with my Christmas bonus next year ... however, I really worry about the ban being repealled and me losing on a $15,000 investment. We had the Assualt Rifle ban for ten years and look at all the folks that lost big bucks betting that it was indefinite and buying up pre-ban rifles to sell for a profit. If a nice registered M16 was setting me back $3K ... no big deal ... but $15K is a big deal!



I REPEAT:

ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT A POLITICIAN WILL BACK LEGISLATION SOFTENING THE EXISTING LAWS REGARDING MACHINE GUNS...

IS DREAMING.

Who in his right mind would touch that issue?

Heck, most gun owners won't even join the NRA, much less elect a congress of hard core gun guys.


FORGET IT. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN 1,000,000 YEARS.

NEVER

Someday I hope to buy a tommy gun. I will lay down my money without a second thought. The only direction the price is going is up.

Deal with it.



I would not expect a politician to support gun ownership, afterall, the 2A is supposed to put fear into the govt...
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:29:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:

Originally Posted By Ky_Bob:

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
I am thinking really hard about purchasing an M16 with my Christmas bonus next year ... however, I really worry about the ban being repealled and me losing on a $15,000 investment. We had the Assualt Rifle ban for ten years and look at all the folks that lost big bucks betting that it was indefinite and buying up pre-ban rifles to sell for a profit. If a nice registered M16 was setting me back $3K ... no big deal ... but $15K is a big deal!



So, freedom is ok as long as you don't lose your investment?

Nice attitude. I have a suggestion, stay out of the market.

Bob






+1

It's a douchebag veiw of firearms ownership.



Douche Bag? Kinda harsh ... guess you folks are a lot wealthier than I am if it's no big deal. If I wasn't pro-gun, pro 2nd amendment, I wouldn't own AR's or be on this board to begin with! I guarantee the folks out there with 1, 2, 3 or more NFA firearms and have collections possibly in the $100K dollars WILL NOT be jumping for joy when/if the ban is repealled .. no matter how much they support the 2nd ammendment. Since I am Joe Smoe I probably will be staying out of the M16 market ....
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:34:25 PM EDT
The 86MG ban has only had the effect of insuring that only wealthy individuals can purchase machine guns. This clearly discriminates against middle class citizens who cannot afford to drop $10K+ on a $100 lower receiver.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:35:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
I am helping CRC on recomending the machine gun ban be repealed.

What I would like from eveyone one is, some good reasons on why it needs to be repealed.

These need to be good reasons, as we are going to get them together and send them to Senator Burr.

FREE



Maybe focus on smaller issues before jamming the "MACHINE" word into their face? How about starting with the SBR rules and AOW stuff. Mention how it criminals these days are using anything and everything illegal and nothing is going to stop them. So it would be better for honest citizens to be able to own better things to defend themselves. I've always found that using principle helps someone understand more than citing specific lines of documents. The UK for example has banned most people from owning most kinds of firearms, been like that for years. yet criminals still shoot unarmed officers. How did they get those banned guns? Criminals find a way always. Having armed honest citizens is how the west was won....build on that...otherwise I dont see how anyone would be able to justify straight out auto weapons for anyone other than who has them now. Just my .02 g'luck to ya
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:51:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:

Originally Posted By Ky_Bob:

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
I am thinking really hard about purchasing an M16 with my Christmas bonus next year ... however, I really worry about the ban being repealled and me losing on a $15,000 investment. We had the Assualt Rifle ban for ten years and look at all the folks that lost big bucks betting that it was indefinite and buying up pre-ban rifles to sell for a profit. If a nice registered M16 was setting me back $3K ... no big deal ... but $15K is a big deal!



So, freedom is ok as long as you don't lose your investment?

Nice attitude. I have a suggestion, stay out of the market.

Bob






+1

It's a douchebag veiw of firearms ownership.



Douche Bag? Kinda harsh ... It can be, I've been called worse.

guess you folks are a lot wealthier than I am if it's no big deal.

I'm not wealthy either. I think that is why i dislike the GCA and NFA all together. It's a rich mans sport and I want to play too. But the thousands required to play just isn't justified when it is unconstitutional to begin with.

If I wasn't pro-gun, pro 2nd amendment, I wouldn't own AR's or be on this board to begin with!

Being progun would be in favor for the repeal of the ban and want everybody else to share the freedom that we are currently being restricted. I'm glad you have taken the first step and bought an evil assault weapon. It's a start

I guarantee the folks out there with 1, 2, 3 or more NFA firearms and have collections possibly in the $100K dollars WILL NOT be jumping for joy when/if the ban is repealled...

I don't give a flying shit about those that would be upset if their investment is pissed on. The issue is freedom. Not their investment. Since when does it make it okay that the rich get to enjoy freedom and the po people don't get to experiance it?

no matter how much they support the 2nd ammendment. Since I am Joe Smoe I probably will be staying out of the M16 market ....

You will most likely stay out of the M-16 market beacause you cared too much about another mans investment. You would rather that person to have thier big $$\investment gun that to have your very own at a reasonable price.


Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:54:38 PM EDT
Damn. Did i kill this thread?

I hate when I do that!!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:12:01 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies.

Keep them coming.

FREE
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:17:10 PM EDT
Any MD/NOVA/DC members willing to take this to a congress person?

Thanks

CRC
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:28:24 PM EDT
It should be repealed because ARFCOM members alone would eliminate the Federal debt inside 5 years with all the new MGs registered. In 10 years they would make Social Security solvent.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:27:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:41:19 PM EDT
From what I gather, most MG owners do want the 86 ban to go away. They may be out several grand, but they will be able to buy more machineguns anyway. Something not possible currently.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:45:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 7:50:16 PM EDT by NimmerMehr]

Originally Posted By johnthreesixteen:
It's all about the money....... All of the owners of the pre 86 registered mg's would loose about $15,000 average each if it was repealed. I'm supprised there is not more response from us owners when this topic is brought up..........



That makes it sound liek that MG owners have a lobbing group of sorts soley for the purposes of keeping MG costs high.

Edit: I personaly think that claiming the MG ban is wrong because it is illegal due to the 2A is.... almost pointless. "They" don't really care, as "they" just want "bad things" to "go away".
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:59:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:
That makes it sound liek that MG owners have a lobbing group of sorts soley for the purposes of keeping MG costs high.



Like those bastards at nfaoa.org/
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