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Posted: 1/27/2006 5:22:48 PM EDT
Lawmakers foresee battle looming over immigration
Nathaniel Hoffman
CONTRA COSTA TIMES
Jan 27, 2006
www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/13725427.htm
The Rev. Tony Valdivia is not encouraged by talk of "comprehensive immigration reform" in Congress.
The overarching message reaching his parishioners, 70 percent of whom he estimates lack immigration papers, is that they are not wanted here.
"I just don't see a light at the end of the tunnel," said the pastor of St. Louis Bertrand Church in East Oakland. "We are many but we have very little political power."
While undocumented immigrants may be politically weak, powerful forces in favor of either relaxed immigration laws or stricter controls are gearing up for a major debate on Capitol Hill next month.
The Senate Judiciary Committee is poised to take up immigration reform bills in February that offer everything from a path to citizenship for undocumented workers to stepped-up deportation and lengthening the fence along the border with Mexico.
The House of Representatives in December passed a bill that makes immigration violations subject to criminal prosecution and beefs up border security and internal enforcement of immigration laws.
Immigration experts say it is up to the Senate to balance enforcement with a realistic plan for dealing with millions of undocumented workers in the United States.
"In some ways it's not that different from tough-on-crime legislation. It's popular with the public," said UC Davis law professor Kevin Johnson.
"But there's these economic and social forces at work that really make it impossible to enforce the laws as they are written."
While House Republicans talk about security and enforcement, business groups -- usually allied with Republican platforms -- argue that the millions of people here illegally are critical to the industries that employ them.
The House bill, sponsored by Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., and supported by 239 lawmakers, including Richard Pombo, R-Tracy, was widely seen by immigrants and throughout Mexico and Central America as a slap in the face.
"It's a shame on the United States," said a Guatemalan bishop who spoke to the Times on Monday at his brother's house in Vallejo. "The United States is a nation of immigrants, a nation that defends human rights and liberty," said Alvaro Ramazzini, bishop of the Diocese of San Marcos.
Ramazzini was at St. Elizabeth Church in Oakland this past week to visit relatives and to dedicate an image of Jesus for Guatemalans in the community. He runs a shelter on the Guatemalan border with Mexico to help migrants and deportees with food, shelter and legal aid.
The migrants rarely heed warnings of the dangers of the journey north, he said. "The reality of poverty is that people say, 'To us it's not important.'"
National security worries have subsumed the immigration debate since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and the placement of immigration under the Department of Homeland Security.
"The congressman believes the bill was a good first step in a post-9/11 world," said Nicole Philbin, Pombo's press secretary. "He believes in the need to increase security at our borders."
While many who voted for the Sensenbrenner bill support securing the borders as a first step, it is not the only immigration reform they may consider, said Tamar Jacoby, an immigration expert at the conservative Manhattan Institute.
"I think there are a lot of Republicans who are counting on a knee-jerk reaction from the public," she said.
But when people think a little longer, Jacoby said, they realize that the 11 million people working illegally in the country are doing essential jobs and they consider alternative proposals.
A growing coalition of immigrant advocates -- from conservative business groups including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, to liberal labor groups and religious institutions such as the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops -- is urging the Senate to pass a comprehensive reform bill. These groups back a guest-worker program that would give immigrants some way of legalizing their livelihoods and open a path to earn citizenship.
"You can't talk about dealing with this 11 million population unless you engage the 11 million," said Angela Kelley, deputy director of the National Immigration Forum, a coalition that includes representatives of the National Association of Manufacturers, the National Council of La Raza and the Service Employees International Union.
On the other hand, an increasingly vocal anti-immigration front vows to oppose any guest worker provisions, labeling it an amnesty for law breakers.
"The (1986) amnesty sent the word out around the world that if you can get to the United States, they will not get rid of you," said Rick Oltman, a spokesman for the Federation of American Immigration Reform who lives in Novato.
"Political elites of both parties want to continue to allow this cheap labor to flow in because business is asking for it," Oltman said.
President Bush has supported a guest-worker program since he took office, but he has not revealed many details.
Kelley's Immigration Forum supports a measure floated by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., that would provide a way for undocumented immigrants to apply for residency and citizenship.
The Rev. Valdivia, meanwhile, tells his church that rallying and protesting is not going to get them a welcome mat.
He tells them to get their papers together and to become citizens.
"It's only the political clout that's going to help us," he said. "The politicians have to know political power."
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:56:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 8:04:15 PM EDT by Special-K]
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:07:16 PM EDT

The Senate Judiciary Committee is poised to take up immigration reform bills in February


Sling a lot of bs and do nothing subtantial about the illegal alien invasion

Hint......almost everything illegals do is ALREADY a crime, more unenforced laws will NOT help
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:12:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



oh shit that was funny.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:16:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:18:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



Robots. Duh.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:19:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jnewson:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



Robots. Duh.



Gotchya.

Do they have one that does the luandry? I want to pre-order one, cause damnit I hate doin laundry.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:23:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



How about knocking on the door and asking to come in? Kinda like my ancestors did?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:23:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 8:24:20 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



Small business have been solving problems for many years in this country

I have NO problem with increasing LEGAL immigration to fill those spots if they want to come work them

But, the current system where their diseased charity cases and criminals come here and have their rent\medical care
PAID FOR by ME (and YOU) while they are committing henious crimes at a much higher rate than Citizens are needs to STOP!!
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:25:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



Surely you're kidding? The day of illegals just simply picking lettuce are long gone, that's why us normal people have a problem with them. They've infiltrated just about every type of work there is in this country. Don't be so niaeve!
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:29:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



Surely you're kidding? The day of illegals just simply picking lettuce are long gone, that's why us normal people have a problem with them. They've infiltrated just about every type of work there is in this country. Don't be so niaeve!



Good point.
Who will do the landscaping?
Who will build our houses?
Who will pick our food? Kill it? Package it?
Who will lay our sod?
Who will pave our roads?

As I said before, I'm not saying I dont want them out, but people need to consider the ramifications of kicking out millions of workers, and have plans in place to deal with it. Sure, increase work visa's. But why dont we do that BEFORE we kick them all out?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:37:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By 89grand:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".

Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.

-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



Surely you're kidding? The day of illegals just simply picking lettuce are long gone, that's why us normal people have a problem with them. They've infiltrated just about every type of work there is in this country. Don't be so niaeve!



Good point.
Who will do the landscaping?
Who will build our houses?
Who will pick our food? Kill it? Package it?
Who will lay our sod?
Who will pave our roads?

As I said before, I'm not saying I dont want them out, but people need to consider the ramifications of kicking out millions of workers, and have plans in place to deal with it. Sure, increase work visa's. But why dont we do that BEFORE we kick them all out?



20+MILLION illegals can't be thrown out overnight........
Welfare leeches could play an important part of your scenario
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:39:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By 89grand:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



Surely you're kidding? The day of illegals just simply picking lettuce are long gone, that's why us normal people have a problem with them. They've infiltrated just about every type of work there is in this country. Don't be so niaeve!



Good point.
Who will do the landscaping?
Who will build our houses?
Who will pick our food? Kill it? Package it?
Who will lay our sod?
Who will pave our roads?

As I said before, I'm not saying I dont want them out, but people need to consider the ramifications of kicking out millions of workers, and have plans in place to deal with it. Sure, increase work visa's. But why dont we do that BEFORE we kick them all out?



Yea asshats! Who the fuck is going to build our custom furniture and kitchens!?

Oh wait, that's me.

Shit, I'd do any one of those jobs if it was the best that I could do. Maybe you're afraid to get your hands dirty to earn a living, but some of aren't.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 8:42:04 PM EDT by cnow]
I can see why this pastor is having a hard time with this.

But, if it werent for the bullshit that the illegals bring with them, then it might have not come to this.

An uninvited person comes to your party, but he brings his own beer and enough to go around. He is friendly and makes no waves. He is all around pleasent and adds to the good time of the party. You know what.... he will probably not be kicked out, even though he wasnt invited.

An uninvited person comes to your party. Drinks everyone elses beer, eats all the food on the table. Harasses alot of the invited people there. Gets drunk and gets unpleasent. Pukes on himself, and others. Goes into the bathroom and shits everywhere and stinks up the party in general..... You know what.....He's getting thrown out on his ass... SO ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE WITH HIM!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These motherfuckers snuck in the back door and are bringing a whole lot more with them than just puke and stink.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:42:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jnewson:
Yea asshats! Who the fuck is going to build our custom furniture and kitchens!?

Oh wait, that's me.

Shit, I'd do any one of those jobs if it was the best that I could do. Maybe you're afraid to get your hands dirty to earn a living, but some of aren't.



No worries, I have no problems getting dirty.
But I wont do it for 8 bucks an hour either.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:44:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 8:49:42 PM EDT by 89grand]

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By 89grand:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



Surely you're kidding? The day of illegals just simply picking lettuce are long gone, that's why us normal people have a problem with them. They've infiltrated just about every type of work there is in this country. Don't be so niaeve!



Good point.
Who will do the landscaping?
Who will build our houses?
Who will pick our food? Kill it? Package it?
Who will lay our sod?
Who will pave our roads?

As I said before, I'm not saying I dont want them out, but people need to consider the ramifications of kicking out millions of workers, and have plans in place to deal with it. Sure, increase work visa's. But why dont we do that BEFORE we kick them all out?



Lets see

1. We can get quit being so lazy and do our own landscaping...like Americans used to do
2. The people that USED to build our houses. Hard working Americans that didn't get a AA or BS degree. If construction starts payingwhat they used to pay, hard working Americans will do it again.
3. The same people that picked it (illegal aliens) killed it(Americans) and packaged it(Americans) as before.
4. What sod?
5. Pave our roads? U.S. citizen city workers...the same people that used to do it, long before illegals destroyed those industries.

You do realize that this Country thrived and suceeded long before illegals fucked up the program don't you?

You're putting things in the wrong order. Illegals have since made a number of jobs unattrative, it's not like the U.S. shut down do to lack of workers until those illegal alien roaches arrived.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:48:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By jnewson:
Yea asshats! Who the fuck is going to build our custom furniture and kitchens!?

Oh wait, that's me.

Shit, I'd do any one of those jobs if it was the best that I could do. Maybe you're afraid to get your hands dirty to earn a living, but some of aren't.



No worries, I have no problems getting dirty.
But I wont do it for 8 bucks an hour either.



I won't either, unless it is that, or unemployment. I know several people that are unemployed that would take jobs like that if the job markets weren't so flooded with illegals that being fluent in spanish wasn't a job requirement.

Throw out the illegals and open up jobs for American Citizens.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:51:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 8:52:52 PM EDT by jcp84]
Anyone that says, "Oh, well there goes all the work that no one else will do" is under the misconception that everyone who is in that field is in this country illegally, which of course isn't true at all.

Same thing with people calling all Hispanics or people with Spanish last names "illegals." Not everyone doing the "jobs no one else will do"are here illegally. More than likely if they're getting paid $2 an hour then yes. But otherwise no.

The workforce in those fields wouldn't just vanish overnight if we were to actually take a stand on illegal immigration.

I mean shit, I don't really care what intentions any immigrant has here... better life, work here for a few bucks and go back home, who cares? As long as it doesn't fuck with our rights or anyone's well-being. Point is the .gov should at least keep tabs on them instead of being a bunch of PC pussies.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:55:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Who will do the landscaping?
Who will build our houses?
Who will pick our food? Kill it? Package it?
Who will lay our sod?
Who will pave our roads?

As I said before, I'm not saying I dont want them out, but people need to consider the ramifications of kicking out millions of workers, and have plans in place to deal with it. Sure, increase work visa's. But why dont we do that BEFORE we kick them all out?



In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, illegal immigration is illegal.

So we pay more for all of those services. Big fucking deal.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:57:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 9:01:47 PM EDT by 89grand]

Originally Posted By jcp84:
Anyone that says, "Oh, well there goes all the work that no one else will do" is under the misconception that everyone who is in that field is in this country illegally, which of course isn't true at all.

Same thing with people calling all Hispanics or people with Spanish last names "illegals." Not everyone doing the "jobs no one else will do"are here illegally. More than likely if they're getting paid $2 an hour then yes. But otherwise no.

The workforce in those fields wouldn't just vanish overnight if we were to actually take a stand on illegal immigration.

I mean shit, I don't really care what intentions any immigrant has here... better life, work here for a few bucks and go back home, who cares? As long as it doesn't fuck with our rights or anyone's well-being. Point is the .gov should at least keep tabs on them instead of being a bunch of PC pussies.




You're delusional, or very young, one of the 2.

You do realize that this country was productive long before illegals invaded our country don't you?

If not, sit back and learn for a while

American Hispanics have no desire for shit jobs either, nor should they. Illegals have under cut the job market and asshole business owners have been more than willing to exploit the new found cheap labor to line their pockets with the profits of selling out this nation.

Wise up!

ETA: I'm mildly drunk about now, this wasn't aimed at you jpc84, but at the other idiots that refuse to accept the truch.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:00:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jcp84:
Anyone that says, "Oh, well there goes all the work that no one else will do" is under the misconception that everyone who is in that field is in this country illegally, which of course isn't true at all.

Same thing with people calling all Hispanics or people with Spanish last names "illegals." Not everyone doing the "jobs no one else will do"are here illegally. More than likely if they're getting paid $2 an hour then yes. But otherwise no.

The workforce in those fields wouldn't just vanish overnight if we were to actually take a stand on illegal immigration.

I mean shit, I don't really care what intentions any immigrant has here... better life, work here for a few bucks and go back home, who cares? As long as it doesn't fuck with our rights or anyone's well-being. Point is the .gov should at least keep tabs on them instead of being a bunch of PC pussies.



Except for two points
one, they don't make $2 but they are paid less and influence small business competition, and their wife is at home
getting welfare, rent, food, medical care, and many more TAXPAYER DOLLARS that they should NOT be getting
two, they are committing crimes waaaay out of proportion to their representation in the population
and, their crimes are crimes common in other countries, not here, at least they didn't used to be common here........
kidnapping, forced CHILD prostitution, gang rape, CHILD rape........those are just the worse ones IMO
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:01:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:
Lets see

1. We can get quit being so lazy and do our own landscaping...like Americans used to do
2. The people that USED to build our houses. Hard working Americans that didn't get a AA or BS degree. If construction starts payingwhat they used to pay, hard working Americans will do it again.
3. The same people that picked it (illegal aliens) killed it(Americans) and packaged it(Americans) as before.
4. What sod?
5. Pave our roads? U.S. citizen city workers...the same people that used to do it, long before illegals destroyed those industries.

You do realize that this Country thrived and suceeded long before illegals fucked up the program don't you?

You're putting things in the wrong order. Illegals have since made a number of jobs unattrative, it's not like the U.S. shut down do to lack of workers until those illegal alien roaches arrived.



I suppose thats one way to watch prices double across the board overnight.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:05:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By 89grand:
Lets see

1. We can get quit being so lazy and do our own landscaping...like Americans used to do
2. The people that USED to build our houses. Hard working Americans that didn't get a AA or BS degree. If construction starts payingwhat they used to pay, hard working Americans will do it again.
3. The same people that picked it (illegal aliens) killed it(Americans) and packaged it(Americans) as before.
4. What sod?
5. Pave our roads? U.S. citizen city workers...the same people that used to do it, long before illegals destroyed those industries.

You do realize that this Country thrived and suceeded long before illegals fucked up the program don't you?

You're putting things in the wrong order. Illegals have since made a number of jobs unattrative, it's not like the U.S. shut down do to lack of workers until those illegal alien roaches arrived.



I suppose thats one way to watch prices double across the board overnight.



Really, are you serious? Did they drop by 50% over night when illegals started doing it?

How come homes cost just as much if not more than every before? How come everything else filthy illegals are involved in aren't dirt cheap either?

One of the best times to live in the U.S was during the 50's. Oddly enough, during a time when there were NO illegal aliens here. Explain that if you can.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:09:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 9:09:48 PM EDT by Specop_007]

Originally Posted By 89grand:
Really, are you serious? Did they drop by 50% over night when illegals started doing it?

How come homes cost just as much if not more than every before? How come everything else filthy illegals are involved in aren't dirt cheap either?

One of the best times to live in the U.S was during the 50's. Oddly enough, during a time when there were NO illegal aliens here. Explain that if you can.



None of that means shit.
We're not talking about inflation and such, we're talking about RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

And if you think for 1 minute that if your labor prices double your finished product prices stay the same, you seriously need some Econ/Bus 101.

Aside from that, I agree the best time would have been the 50's.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:16:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By 89grand:
Really, are you serious? Did they drop by 50% over night when illegals started doing it?

How come homes cost just as much if not more than every before? How come everything else filthy illegals are involved in aren't dirt cheap either?

One of the best times to live in the U.S was during the 50's. Oddly enough, during a time when there were NO illegal aliens here. Explain that if you can.



None of that means shit.
We're not talking about inflation and such, we're talking about RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

And if you think for 1 minute that if your labor prices double your finished product prices stay the same, you seriously need some Econ/Bus 101.

Aside from that, I agree the best time would have been the 50's.



Lets have YOUR suggestions, I know you are not an illegal supporter
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:23:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Good point.
Who will do the landscaping?
Who will build our houses?
Who will pick our food? Kill it? Package it?
Who will lay our sod?
Who will pave our roads?

As I said before, I'm not saying I dont want them out, but people need to consider the ramifications of kicking out millions of workers, and have plans in place to deal with it. Sure, increase work visa's. But why dont we do that BEFORE we kick them all out?



Why does the phrase, "Should have picked their own damn cotton come to mind?"

wganz

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:25:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
They just "Lack immigration papers". Right. And a bank robber just "Lacks a checking sccount with that particular financial institution", and a rapist just "Lacks consent".


Oh, and BTW, NO, THEY'RE NOT WANTED HERE! Jagoff.


-K



Well I can damn well tell you *I* dont have time to go pick my lettuce, so whats your solution.
its real easy to simply say "Kick'm out" (And I'm not opposed to that) but you need to stop a minute and think about how you replace millions of workers suddenly not working.

So, whats the plan?



I agree with what everyone else said regarding all the bullshit they bring with them, and being the uninvited guest who ruins the party. But to specifically answer your question, I seem to recall reading an article on this board that stated 4% of the American workforce is made up of illegal immigrants. We currently have an unemployment rate of around 5%. Seems to me that we can kick out all the illegals and drop our unemployment rate to only around 1%.

The illegals ARE taking jobs from Americans. So many in our often urban areas are claiming they need welfare because of a lack of job opportunities. I think we could go a long way to fixing that by removing the millions of illegals - creating creating millions of job openings. With so many jobs available we can lessen our welfare payments because these people will have no excuse for nt working. If illegals can get jobs here and raise families on them - and still have money to send back home (Money sent back to Mexico from illegals is their #2 source of income nationally) - Americans can do it too.

This still leaves approximately 1% of our economy unemployed. I would build and staff prisons for persistant immigration violators with that 1% that is left over. If, for what ever reason, we still need more people to come here we can allow them to come here legally like we still do today. In fact, I would say that we really don't need to stop LEGAL immigration anyhow.

We would gain in a number of ways.

We would save the money we are currently spenging on illegals - welfare, medical care, public schools, prisons/jails for people that would no longer be here to commit crimes, fewer victims from said crimes, etc..

We would keep the billions of dollars sent away from our economy "back home to Mexico" in our economy because the money would be spent here by Americans and not there by Mexicans.

We would also save money on social programs for unemployed Americans because there would be more jobs available for them.


If I have to pay a little more for my lettuse as a result, or pay a little more for an AMERICAN to hang my drywall or paint my house - thats fine! I already willingly pay a little more if I can for American made products.

All of this in addition what the others said. We really are getting the short end of the immigration stick here.


-K
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:25:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By 89grand:
Really, are you serious? Did they drop by 50% over night when illegals started doing it?

How come homes cost just as much if not more than every before? How come everything else filthy illegals are involved in aren't dirt cheap either?

One of the best times to live in the U.S was during the 50's. Oddly enough, during a time when there were NO illegal aliens here. Explain that if you can.



None of that means shit.
We're not talking about inflation and such, we're talking about RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

And if you think for 1 minute that if your labor prices double your finished product prices stay the same, you seriously need some Econ/Bus 101.

Aside from that, I agree the best time would have been the 50's.



Lets have YOUR suggestions, I know you are not an illegal supporter



WTF man, do I look like Kerry? I dont have a plan!

I do know its not as simple as telling millions of workers to up and leave. Obviously there will be friction with any solution.
Not doing anything is NOT a solution either.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:28:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By 89grand:
Really, are you serious? Did they drop by 50% over night when illegals started doing it?

How come homes cost just as much if not more than every before? How come everything else filthy illegals are involved in aren't dirt cheap either?

One of the best times to live in the U.S was during the 50's. Oddly enough, during a time when there were NO illegal aliens here. Explain that if you can.



None of that means shit.
We're not talking about inflation and such, we're talking about RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

And if you think for 1 minute that if your labor prices double your finished product prices stay the same, you seriously need some Econ/Bus 101.

Aside from that, I agree the best time would have been the 50's.



So labor costs were reduced by 100% thanks to illegal aliens, but yet prices never dropped at all...interesting. Well not really, see the greedy business owner that employs illegal aliens already knows what the U.S. consumer considered a fair price, so what they did was hire filthy illegals at a fraction of the labor cost but kept the price the same. So in reality, the only thing's that changed were that the employer paid the illegal less, charged the same and pocketed the profits. Now lets say that illegals were thrown the fuck out of this country, as they should be, well that same business owner might try to pull a scam at first, claiming that they had to raise prices because the illegals were gone, but eventually the would accept what market value was, and accept that their profit margin would only be 150% as apposed to 250% with illegals.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:30:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Lets have YOUR suggestions, I know you are not an illegal supporter



WTF man, do I look like Kerry? I dont have a plan!

I do know its not as simple as telling millions of workers to up and leave. Obviously there will be friction with any solution.
Not doing anything is NOT a solution either.



Looks like Special-K is making some excellent points in response to your query
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 8:37:29 AM EDT
Bump.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 8:56:23 AM EDT
Here's an idea, have everyone who gets a job submit a copy of their Birth Certificate as proof of citizenship. If not born here, submit their supporting documents. Send a copy to the Dept of Labor and when INS comes by your job he might ask suspicious sounding employees (Poor English) for ID. If their paperwork never got submitted, haul em down to Immigration for deportation and fine the employer something like $100,000 for every ilegal employed.

1. Make sure you are allowed to work here. 2. Deport illegals. 3. Fine employers who hire illegals. I think with some fine tuning it would work.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:16:07 AM EDT

If we start to collapse as a country because we deport illegal aliens then I guess we could just let them back in. I seriously doubt we'll see the economic doomsday that so many apologists for the ILLEGAL trespassers claim (hope?) will happen. The savings to our social services system will allow us to help our own poor and disadvantaged.

I'll gladly pay an extra quarter for a head of lettuce and I already mow my own yard. Man the border(S) NOW! If existing illegals don't register pay a crimestoppers reward for turning the POS's in. Have REAL penalties for ANY person or company who hires an illegal. Simple concept but common sense is lost anymore, sadly.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:55:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Good point.
Who will do the landscaping?
Who will build our houses?
Who will pick our food? Kill it? Package it?
Who will lay our sod?
Who will pave our roads?

As I said before, I'm not saying I dont want them out, but people need to consider the ramifications of kicking out millions of workers, and have plans in place to deal with it. Sure, increase work visa's. But why dont we do that BEFORE we kick them all out?



How about Americans?

There are millions upon millions of High School and College aged Americans who would work for American landscapers.

There are millions of American construction workers who would build homes, and millions more who want those jobs.

There are millions of Americans who would start businesses and hire other Americans to take up the slack.

Don't loads of people here scream about how they want capitalism here in this country, and not socialism bringing a cheap labor force here to do the work?

Oh, you might have to pay a nickel more for a head of lettuce.

Oh, you may have to pay an American worker $10 more per week to mow your lawn.

Or is it just that you and corporations feel entitled to have illegal aliens here to keep things that you want to buy "cheap", and the l;abor in their business low wage, while the rest of the taxpayers pay hundreds of billions of dollars per year in social programs to keep those illegal aliens here?
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