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Posted: 1/27/2006 5:00:56 PM EDT
After watching the news about HAMAS winning big time in the elections in Israel and the world's reaction I would give us 2-3 years until we get into another really big, ugly war because of that mess. Now my mamma told me never to open a can of worms by discussing three things: religion, politics and the best beer brand, but I'm gonna break that rule and ask for a discussion. So whatdaya think?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:01:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:
After watching the news about HAMAS winning big time in the elections in Israel and the world's reaction I would give us 2-3 years until we get into another really big, ugly war because of that mess. Now my mamma told me never to open a can of worms by discussing three things: religion, politics and the best beer brand, but I'm gonna break that rule and ask for a discussion. So whatdaya think?



we're currently in the middle of one...
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:03:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 5:03:47 PM EDT by Selvatico]
I'm talking WW2 big. 3000+ American troops killed is a horrible thing, but Iraq doesn't compare to your grandfather's war.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:04:48 PM EDT
wont happen, the public has no stomach for it
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:09:46 PM EDT
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:12:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.

Well, kinda. Mostly it's an information war, brought on by economic considerations. But it's also at the same time a religious war.

Consider it a "meme" war - a war of ideas. It's being fought with words, oil, dollars, and bullets. But words are the most important weapon. Words can make or break wills, then all the oil, dollars, and bullets in the world won't avail you.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:19:48 PM EDT

Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.



Amen. For all the Liberal gobbledee gook about the US military, nobody on Earth compares to ours as of now. Not China. Not anybody.

We have enough nukes to wipe out the Earth, the Moon, Venus and Mars for good measure. Our dependency on oil and cheap Chinese goods will be our downfall.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:24:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us.
I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:26:21 PM EDT
87 months

B_S
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:29:28 PM EDT
Funny thing, people say it's an info war, yada yada. It felt like bullets and bombs to me at the time.
I take getting shot at personally.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:35:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:
I'm talking WW2 big. 3000+ American troops killed is a horrible thing, but Iraq doesn't compare to your grandfather's war.



3,000+?????????? Since when?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:36:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 5:37:14 PM EDT by Yossarian]

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us.
I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.



I agree with Postban

Technologically speaking, yes, no one can touch our military. But man for man, we are significantly outnumbered. To man up for China, Iran, Syria, North Korea, and other crazies, we would need a huge draft.

The thing is, those countries dictators have no qualms, when the time comes, to send there hundreds of thousands of existing troops, as well as the ones who will be forced or coerced into joining their military, head long into battle. Remember the human waves of WWII and Korea? Remember the hundreds of thousands of Russians soldiers and conscripts alike Stalin threw at the "superior" German army?

If we go to battle with those guys we will be in a world of hurt. And casualties, unless we fight the smart way, using small yield tactical nukes, will be enormous.

Now, do I think this will happen. I don't know. I don't think the dictators and leaders of those countries really want war with us. Well, maybe Iran. But not the others. Atleast they do not want war right now. The problem will arise; however, from some event or series of events, say we defend Taiwan and China hits one of our ships. What will follow will be a series of decisions on both sides that once made, will not be able to be unmade, and by then it will be too late. For example, we relaliate on small order, then they escalate, and it goes on from there. Something like that could push us to full scale war and while we are at it, the other named countries could very well jump in to hasten our defeat, or what they think would be our defeat.

By that time, the things keeping us from war now, trade, mutual dependance for materials and products, fear of loss of life, economies, public sentiments, will be out the window, and will not hold back the tide.

That is how, or something along the lines of that scenario, I see the next high casualty WW starting.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:39:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 5:41:37 PM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us. I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.



Well, it's pretty obvious where this is going.

So, we are an empire??? Our government aleniating other countries who will not face the threat of terrorism or nations who even support terrorism??????????
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:50:44 PM EDT
We happen to be in the middle of one now.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:53:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us.
I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.



At this moment in time we ARE that invincible. The only way the United States can lose a war now is for our own, homegrown liberals to destroy our will to win.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:55:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us. I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.



Well, it's pretty obvious where this is going.

So, we are an empire??? Our government aleniating other countries who will not face the threat of terrorism or nations who even support terrorism??????????



From Merriam-Webster OnLineMain Entry: em·pire
Pronunciation: 'em-"pIr
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French empire, empirie, from Latin imperium absolute authority, empire, from imperare
1 a (1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority (ie Republicans); especially : one having an emperor as chief of state (2) : the territory of such a political unit b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control
2 : imperial sovereignty, rule, or dominion

Yea, I'd say we're an empire. Maybe without an emperor (although Bush bashers would disagree). You can't deny our government has been working hard over the last 50 years to make us the top dogs in the world that dictate our will to everyone else. Before WW2 we were an isolationist country. Now wer'e all about taking over the world ...one Mc Donalds at a time.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:03:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us. I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.



Well, it's pretty obvious where this is going.

So, we are an empire??? Our government aleniating other countries who will not face the threat of terrorism or nations who even support terrorism??????????



From Merriam-Webster OnLineMain Entry: em·pire
Pronunciation: 'em-"pIr
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French empire, empirie, from Latin imperium absolute authority, empire, from imperare
1 a (1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority (ie Republicans); especially : one having an emperor as chief of state (2) : the territory of such a political unit b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control
2 : imperial sovereignty, rule, or dominion

Yea, I'd say we're an empire. Maybe without an emperor (although Bush bashers would disagree). You can't deny our government has been working hard over the last 50 years to make us the top dogs in the world that dictate our will to everyone else. Before WW2 we were an isolationist country. Now wer'e all about taking over the world ...one Mc Donalds at a time.



Show me a map of our "empire". Afghanistan and Iraq are in the process of establishing democracy and we will be out of both places once they can fend for themselves.

No, we are not an empire.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:03:46 PM EDT
Very soon.

It's coming.

Max
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:26:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 6:27:17 PM EDT by Selvatico]

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us. I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.



Well, it's pretty obvious where this is going.

So, we are an empire??? Our government aleniating other countries who will not face the threat of terrorism or nations who even support terrorism??????????



From Merriam-Webster OnLineMain Entry: em·pire
Pronunciation: 'em-"pIr
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French empire, empirie, from Latin imperium absolute authority, empire, from imperare
1 a (1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority (ie Republicans); especially : one having an emperor as chief of state (2) : the territory of such a political unit b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control
2 : imperial sovereignty, rule, or dominion

Yea, I'd say we're an empire. Maybe without an emperor (although Bush bashers would disagree). You can't deny our government has been working hard over the last 50 years to make us the top dogs in the world that dictate our will to everyone else. Before WW2 we were an isolationist country. Now wer'e all about taking over the world ...one Mc Donalds at a time.



Show me a map of our "empire". Afghanistan and Iraq are in the process of establishing democracy and we will be out of both places once they can fend for themselves.

No, we are not an empire.

You mean just like South Korea? or former Yugoslavia and Somalia? Maybe Japan or Germany? The truth is we'll always be in those countries to some extent and we extend our influence because of it. We don't take out a country with entirely pure intentions, otherwise we would have stepped in to stop the genocide ins Rwanda.
Damn... I'm angry tonight. I'm having arguments on 4 different forums at once. I need a bottle of Jack. Damn Utah liquor stores that close at 7:00.


Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:40:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:
After watching the news about HAMAS winning big time in the elections in Israel and the world's reaction I would give us 2-3 years until we get into another really big, ugly war because of that mess. Now my mamma told me never to open a can of worms by discussing three things: religion, politics and the best beer brand, but I'm gonna break that rule and ask for a discussion. So whatdaya think?

I like Dogfish Head Brewery's stuff pretty well. Good beers.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:47:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us. I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.



Well, it's pretty obvious where this is going.

So, we are an empire??? Our government aleniating other countries who will not face the threat of terrorism or nations who even support terrorism??????????



From Merriam-Webster OnLineMain Entry: em·pire
Pronunciation: 'em-"pIr
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French empire, empirie, from Latin imperium absolute authority, empire, from imperare
1 a (1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority (ie Republicans); especially : one having an emperor as chief of state (2) : the territory of such a political unit b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control
2 : imperial sovereignty, rule, or dominion

Yea, I'd say we're an empire. Maybe without an emperor (although Bush bashers would disagree). You can't deny our government has been working hard over the last 50 years to make us the top dogs in the world that dictate our will to everyone else. Before WW2 we were an isolationist country. Now wer'e all about taking over the world ...one Mc Donalds at a time.



Show me a map of our "empire". Afghanistan and Iraq are in the process of establishing democracy and we will be out of both places once they can fend for themselves.

No, we are not an empire.

You mean just like South Korea? or former Yugoslavia and Somalia? Maybe Japan or Germany? The truth is we'll always be in those countries to some extent and we extend our influence because of it. We don't take out a country with entirely pure intentions, otherwise we would have stepped in to stop the genocide ins Rwanda.

Damn... I'm angry tonight. I'm having arguments on 4 different forums at once. I need a bottle of Jack. Damn Utah liquor stores that close at 7:00.





Like I said, it's obvious where this is going. Bringing up Rwanda says a lot.

None of the countries you named are part of any empire, much less ours. We have very little influence over any of those places and did not act alone on any of them. WWII ring a bell? We sure as hell didn't act alone in Kosovo or the former Yugoslavia. You might want to check on Afghanistan and Iraq as well. We are not in those places alone.

Try again.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:50:00 PM EDT
It's already started....now it's a matter of who joins in.

HH
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:51:20 PM EDT
Already in it. Stakes are the same as always....freedom or fascism. The nature of the enemy and the terrain dictate low intensity conflicts but a lot of them.

I doubt (less than 50%) that Israel will be militarily attacked. Actually Israel will benefit by having an elected government to deal with in Palestine. They will be facing a Unified Palestine with one official voice and not one with an Arafat talking and Hamas killing at the same time.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:56:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us.
I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.




I was talking about open combat, just like I said. We are VERY vulnerable, just not on the battle feild.
We will be attacked when our welfare progams strip our society of the ability to maintain our military, 10-20 years tops.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:00:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us.
I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.




Sounds like the left wing media has brainwashed you pretty good.

Don't worry too much though because Nations do not ally with each other because of some mythical "friendship" They join together because of shared economic or strategic interests.

We were not "friends" with France, Russia or China, before, during or after WW2, yet we fought with them because it was in everybody's interests to do so.

In the next one, the other world players will join with the strongest side. It may or may not be us, but it will have nothing to do with percieved "friendliness" International politics simply do not work that way.

Please don't let the liberal media rot your mind.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:12:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Already in it. Stakes are the same as always....freedom or fascism. The nature of the enemy and the terrain dictate low intensity conflicts but a lot of them.

I doubt (less than 50%) that Israel will be militarily attacked. Actually Israel will benefit by having an elected government to deal with in Palestine. They will be facing a Unified Palestine with one official voice and not one with an Arafat talking and Hamas killing at the same time.



And that makes we wonder what happens next in Israel. Since they are unwilling to even speak to Hamas and vice versa, the only option seems to be to kill each other. That was the game plan before, it seems, but HAMAS now has bona fide political clout with the Palestinians voting for them. It makes a terrorist organization into a "real" government organization. It will be interesting to see how the whole drama plays out.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:14:48 PM EDT
Don't feed this D.U. troll.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:18:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Don't feed this D.U. troll.



no shit
looked at any of the other threads he has gotten into ?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:31:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BillofRights:

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
No army exists that compares to the Axis war machine. Nobody's dumb enough to face us in open battle.
We really are in the next big war, it's an economic war. It's about dollars and oil, not guns and bombs.




Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us.
I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.




Sounds like the left wing media has brainwashed you pretty good.

Don't worry too much though because Nations do not ally with each other because of some mythical "friendship" They join together because of shared economic or strategic interests.

We were not "friends" with France, Russia or China, before, during or after WW2, yet we fought with them because it was in everybody's interests to do so.

In the next one, the other world players will join with the strongest side. It may or may not be us, but it will have nothing to do with percieved "friendliness" International politics simply do not work that way.

Please don't let the liberal media rot your mind.



Exactly. Those who speculate about war with China forget that they have a SERIOUS economic interest with America. They claim to be a Communist nation, however, they are living fat on the Capatalist hog.

The other issue is oil. Which underlines the importance of domestic oil production. I am convinced that we are capable of not only producing enough oil for ourselves here domestically, but could export it to our "allies".

This would only strengthen their alliance.

If China could continue being the major producer of our consumer goods AND buy cheap oil from us, intead of Iran/Syria/etc., they could be one of the most powerful allies we have.

The irony is thick. Who could imagine a Communist nation (acting more like a Capatalist nation) to ally with a Capatalist nation (acting more like a Communist nation)?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:41:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Already in it. Stakes are the same as always....freedom or fascism. The nature of the enemy and the terrain dictate low intensity conflicts but a lot of them.

I doubt (less than 50%) that Israel will be militarily attacked. Actually Israel will benefit by having an elected government to deal with in Palestine. They will be facing a Unified Palestine with one official voice and not one with an Arafat talking and Hamas killing at the same time.



And that makes we wonder what happens next in Israel. Since they are unwilling to even speak to Hamas and vice versa, the only option seems to be to kill each other. That was the game plan before, it seems, but HAMAS now has bona fide political clout with the Palestinians voting for them. It makes a terrorist organization into a "real" government organization. It will be interesting to see how the whole drama plays out.



This is Sharon's brilliance. He got the palistinians to establish a democracy. Now, they will start killing each other for power instead of their Jewish overlords.
Build a wall around them and watch the lord of the flies, live.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:00:39 PM EDT
about 45 seconds.......just took a dump and over flowed the toy-tee........some one just headed that way

35sec.....
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:19:00 PM EDT
I think it would take at least 8 divisions and 8 fighter wings to fuck up Irans day and do it properly.

The only way to do that now would be to call up the national guard..........again!

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:54:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 8:11:40 AM EDT by nightstalker]

Originally Posted By postpostban:

Originally Posted By Selvatico:

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Already in it. Stakes are the same as always....freedom or fascism. The nature of the enemy and the terrain dictate low intensity conflicts but a lot of them.

I doubt (less than 50%) that Israel will be militarily attacked. Actually Israel will benefit by having an elected government to deal with in Palestine. They will be facing a Unified Palestine with one official voice and not one with an Arafat talking and Hamas killing at the same time.



And that makes we wonder what happens next in Israel. Since they are unwilling to even speak to Hamas and vice versa, the only option seems to be to kill each other. That was the game plan before, it seems, but HAMAS now has bona fide political clout with the Palestinians voting for them. It makes a terrorist organization into a "real" government organization. It will be interesting to see how the whole drama plays out.



This is Sharon's brilliance. He got the palistinians to establish a democracy. Now, they will start killing each other for power instead of their Jewish overlords.
Build a wall around them and watch the lord of the flies, live.



Could be. There are plenty of Palestinians that do not care about the right of return or having Jerusalem all to themselves if it means another war. They may want the West Bank and if they play nice they may get it.

Wonder how they will be able to tell who's who in their civil war.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:57:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:


Do you think we're really that invincible? I'm sure the Soviets, Nazis, Prussians, English, Romans and a dozen other fallen empires though the same thing. With the excellent job our government is doing alienating the world I have doubts we would have many friends should 2-3 of the other larger world powers gang up on us.
I'm not a "end of the world" nut living in paranoia, but world events seem to keep taking turns for the worse in leaps and bounds. It would be naive to believe we will never face another world war.



Your slip is showing
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:36:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 10:38:01 AM EDT by TheOtherDave]
To all of you who think the American Public doesn't have the stomach for a large scale war, it is possible that you may have forgotten the power of Propaganda...

In WWII, there were many, many people in the US opposed to our involvement in fighting the Germans. AGAIN. But with constant bombardment of stories in the press, anti-Japanese and German cartoons made by Walt Disney etc., we were able to sway American public opinion to go to war.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Adolf Hitler Time Magazine's Person of the Year in 1938? Thought so..
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 11:12:53 AM EDT
A big war is coming only it will be inside the US.
Viva la raza.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 11:25:07 AM EDT
I honestly believe America will be formally engaged against iran and (possibly) even syria, as well, before this year ends. At this point, I don't think a war with iran is avoidable because (according to some information that I have heard on talk radio) their psycho president wants to obtain nuclear weapons for the sole purposes of bringing about the advent of the islamic mahdi and (the muslims think) the mahdi can only come during a period of great distress and unrest. In others words, he can only come if armageddon actually comes into fruition. So, instead of obtaining nuclear resources for energy (or even defensive) purposes the iranian leadership wants nukes for end time, islamic prophecy, fulfillment. Thaaaaaaaaaattttttttt'sssssssss cahhhhhhh-raaaaazy. For the sake of the entire world, the iranian nuke issue will have to be dealt with and, more likely than not, it will be dealt with forcefully from all economic, diplomatic and martial standpoints. The problem (as i see it, anyway) is that, when we go after iran, syria will (openly and officially) jump in on the action on behalf of iran and the rest of their "islamic brotherhood". They'll attack israel (as well as us) and they'll try to bring in other arab nations in on it with political and religious peer pressure. Sleeper cells located here, in canada, australia, great britain and israel will all go into action---basically at the same time---and the sh!t will hit the fan everywhere at once and in dizzying force. If we get bogged down even more in the mideast in could encourage china to make a move against taiwan and north korea may, in turn, make a move against south korea, as well. Plus, russia and china's response against us directly will be interesting to see also.

We very well could be looking at WW3---right in the face---right now and not even really know it yet because this latest problem with iran has the potential of getting real ugly real fast.


This is just my 2 cents worth. YMMV.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 11:42:22 AM EDT
To Answer the Original question of this Thread see:War Cycles

Also See: www.cyclesresearchinstitute.org/dewey/dewey-cycleswar.pdf

And: Quantitative History
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:19:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Selvatico:
I'm talking WW2 big. 3000+ American troops killed is a horrible thing, but Iraq doesn't compare to your grandfather's war.



i dont wanna throw shit, but make that statment after you have spent over a year there, and buried 5 close friends. or when you don't sleep good some nights, or the sound of a slamming door makes you duck and reach for a gun.

you may wanna think of a way to re-phrase that, there is no such thing as a little war unless its one your not in.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:50:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
To all of you who think the American Public doesn't have the stomach for a large scale war, it is possible that you may have forgotten the power of Propaganda...

In WWII, there were many, many people in the US opposed to our involvement in fighting the Germans. AGAIN. But with constant bombardment of stories in the press, anti-Japanese and German cartoons made by Walt Disney etc., we were able to sway American public opinion to go to war.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Adolf Hitler Time Magazine's Person of the Year in 1938? Thought so..



You make a good point but there's a number of things that have changed since WW2.
In WW2, newpapers were the only way of spreading news with the exception of limited radio.
Now we have internet, t.v. and radio. News is played 24/7. In WW2 the gov't had more control over what the media reported. Back then the gov't could actually keep secrets.
The media in WW2 didn't print color pictures of our doughboys getting blown to bits. The propaganda was very controlled and very effective because of the limits in information technology. And lets face it...the WW2 generation weren't nearly as "helpless" and "spineless" as today's society.

Todays media is a little different. It has no shame, dignity or morals. What it does have is an agenda.
24/7 news coverage around the globe. I don't think I have to go into great detail about today's media.


We are lucky that we still have people with the heart, soul and dignity to become soldiers.
We have the finest military people in the world bar none and my comments on today's society
obviously does not include them. But the media doesn't support the bravest Americans today, for the most part the media doesn't support America.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:32:31 AM EDT
I agree with a lot of that, but I suspect that it will be a little different this time. Perhaps the military has learned a few things from Iraq and how we embedded and handled the media. The biggest difference I see is that there won't be an initial large build-up because we are already there. Maybe they are hoping that Israeli action against the Iranis will prompt them to do things that will 'pull' us into a wider conflict. From the sounds of it, we already have enough impetus to do some kind of action against the Iranis based on the insugent activity coming across the border into Iraq, the case just has to be presented to the American public with whatever bad news that goes along with the strike against their nuclear programs.

Americans are a fickle people and like other people to do their thinking for them. You guys all remember what a sobering moment 9/11 was for us in the month following, 9 months later we were back to being our collective ignorant selves. The average soccer-mom and NASCAR dad needs to be told what to think, doesn't take a lot of effort to sway the way they think. All it would take is for the media to show what a shithole society Iran has and we wouldn't care one bit. A perfect example is the thread here in GD about the Irani teenager who is to be hanged for killing her rapist....

All it would take is for non-directed media coverage for a month, all it takes is for someone to turn off the liberal machine's blinders. The other thing to look at is that GWB has been known to do things without worrying about public opinion, and he doesn't have an election to worry about. He may just do the right thing.

Dave
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