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Posted: 1/26/2006 2:08:07 AM EDT
Now that they seem to be having problems getting new recruits do you think that would be a good idea?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:19:44 AM EDT
I believe yes with a couple conditions.

1) Recruit must complete basic
2) Immediately proceed to remedial education
3) Complete GED before moving onto any other advanced training.

I realize there are some flaws to these basic proposals but it does expand the pool of potential recruits.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:30:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
I believe yes with a couple conditions.

1) Recruit must complete basic
2) Immediately proceed to remedial education
3) Complete GED before moving onto any other advanced training.

I realize there are some flaws to these basic proposals but it does expand the pool of potential recruits.



+1

Max
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:33:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Commando223:
Now that they seem to be having problems getting new recruits do you think that would be a good idea?




At various times they have had programs to get people in and help them get their GED's. Never lasts very long, last time it lasted all of a day.

And no, not a very good idea. We have enough idiots in uniform, thank you very much.

It is entirely too easy to get your GED or simply finish high school, not doing so is revealing about a lack of commitment.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:38:44 AM EDT
I think high school is mostly BS, but not being able to get a diploma is pretty pathetic.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:41:56 AM EDT
If you do not have the commitment to finish the most basic education....
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:44:14 AM EDT
Can they pass the ASVAB test? Then possibly. But I agree - not getting a diploma is pretty pathetic.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:44:52 AM EDT
Look at how many teenagers joined during WW2 and never completed high school.

I don't think they should be denied, but I think it needs to be done on an individual basis. I agree above, if accepted, they need to be provided with the education to at least complete a GED. That is the least we could do for them.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:52:09 AM EDT
All of our Armed Forces should require at least two years of college for recruits.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:53:41 AM EDT
When I enlisted the military required the HS diploma or GED, even if the person did well on the ASVAB. For those that really wanted to enlist, the recruiters helped them get thier GED. I also seem to recall a couple soldiers getting them during basic, as in they took the final test(s) and received their GED while in training, but they didn't take any classes get time to study. They had done all that prior to going to MEPS. I want to say they took the tests before any real training started and if they failed they weren't allowed to continue and were discharged. It was an incentive for them to pass if they wanted to stay.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:59:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:59:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By smokycity:
When I enlisted the military required the HS diploma or GED, even if the person did well on the ASVAB. For those that really wanted to enlist, the recruiters helped them get thier GED. I also seem to recall a couple soldiers getting them during basic, as in they took the final test(s) and received their GED while in training, but they didn't take any classes get time to study. They had done all that prior to going to MEPS. I want to say they took the tests before any real training started and if they failed they weren't allowed to continue and were discharged. It was an incentive for them to pass if they wanted to stay.



..........and an incentive to fail if they decided they wanted out.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:07:12 AM EDT
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:13:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Commando223:
Now that they seem to be having problems getting new recruits do you think that would be a good idea?




There is no shortage of recruits. Last year they hit 92 % of their goal. Pretty good considering we are at war on two fronts. This fiscal year they are at 106%


BTW, the army already has a shit load of VERY stupid people. A few without GED's is not going to hurt them any.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:14:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.



How did that work?

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:15:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.



Maybe, but nobody recognizes offshore universities you find online.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:16:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.



I would be interested to know how that worked from what univeristy that didn't require transcripts, grades, etc....wow.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:18:03 AM EDT
Yes. The military should not lower their standards for the sake of recruitment.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:23:31 AM EDT
How many diplomas or degrees does a private have to have to stop a bullet????
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:24:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.



How did that work?




I took my SAT scores to a private college - an accredited one - and based on that the admissions officer accepted a "release" letter from the Catholic HS I attended (it just said they had no objection to my leaving HS to start college; my disciplinary record helped the Monsignor make that decision) in lieu of a diploma. It was a good thing, too, because I had made up my mind I wasn't going back to HS no matter what. Law School only requires a Bachelor's degree for admission, so there I was.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:26:15 AM EDT
i gots me one of those ged after completing basic and ait.
gots me a letter from the dept of the army,telling me i wont move beyond the rank of e-4 if i didn't gets me a ged.

after getting to my first duty station i went to the ed center and took the ged pretest.then after passing it i went back and took the real ged test.i could of took some classes but i did good on the pretest so i just took the real test.

made sgt in 3 years.

i hated school but after basic and ait i grew up real fast,so i say let them in but make them get a ged between basic and ait.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:28:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.



I have a HS diploma and a Bachelor's degree that I achieved while drunk, so I'd have to say yes.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:31:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.



I would be interested to know how that worked from what univeristy that didn't require transcripts, grades, etc....wow.





if you enter college as an adult(say 25) none of that shit matters....you test in
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:31:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
Look at how many teenagers joined during WW2 and never completed high school.

I don't think they should be denied, but I think it needs to be done on an individual basis. I agree above, if accepted, they need to be provided with the education to at least complete a GED. That is the least we could do for them.




Yes, but they grew up DOING things, unlike the current generation which has never had to learn much of anything. Most of the WWII generation could do more without a complete education than moderns can with one.

Also take into account that being an infantryman today you must master enough skills to be considered a master craftsman in most professions (skill levels will vary). He is not cannon fodder and anyone who treats him as such is liable to find that grenade can still be fumbled.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:34:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 3:36:12 AM EDT by AgentFork]

Originally Posted By GREYGHOSTt:
How many diplomas or degrees does a private have to have to stop a bullet????



Zero. Wait...college or "play degrees"?

High school and GED=jack shit.

The only thing that the HS diploma shows, as stated before, is some commitment.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:34:27 AM EDT
would you want someone without a GED or diploma doing lane training with you (firing behind you)

or shooing next to your head in MOUT?

The army has enough idiots in it already!
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:37:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 3:39:41 AM EDT by AgentFork]

Originally Posted By Freakzilla:
would you want someone without a GED or diploma doing lane training with you (firing behind you)

or shooing next to your head in MOUT?

The army has enough idiots in it already!



Sure. I've seen plenty of tards with college degrees that scared the shit out of me.

Also, in what way are you qualified to make that judgement, in regards to your last statement?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:39:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Freakzilla:
would you want someone without a GED or diploma doing lane training with you (firing behind you)

or shooing next to your head in MOUT?

The army has enough idiots in it already!



To answer all three YES!
Haven't seen any firearms training requirements in any HS or college YET!
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:42:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AgentFork:

Originally Posted By Freakzilla:
would you want someone without a GED or diploma doing lane training with you (firing behind you)

or shooing next to your head in MOUT?

The army has enough idiots in it already!



Sure. I've seen plenty of tards with college degrees that scared the shit out of me.




I deal with semiliterate holders of graduate degrees every day. There are judges who get annoyed because they think I'm showing off if I quote Shakespeare or the Bible or the Federalist - all of which anybody with a circa 1940 8th Grade completion certificate knew better than I do. There are some stupid, stupid, stupid people who have attained "higher" education.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:43:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
Look at how many teenagers joined during WW2 and never completed high school.

I don't think they should be denied, but I think it needs to be done on an individual basis. I agree above, if accepted, they need to be provided with the education to at least complete a GED. That is the least we could do for them.



In WWII our warfare was such that a functionally illiterate person could fight and do all the basic tasks needed.

Now things have changed. Equipment is for more complicated and the average soldier is expected to do much, much more. The proper option is raise the compensation to attarct the quality people we need, not lower the standards.

If a person wants to join, they can go get the GED on thier own. It is not the militarys place to straigten peoples lives, it is to fight wars. If someone wants to fight the wars, they can straighten themselves out. The crowd that sees the military as some sort of social program for helping people straighten thier life or to solve the problems of society are misguided and will eventually kill our warfighting ability of they have thier way.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:45:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I deal with semiliterate holders of graduate degrees every day. There are judges who get annoyed because they think I'm showing off if I quote Shakespeare or the Bible or the Federalist - all of which anybody with a circa 1940 8th Grade completion certificate knew better than I do. There are some stupid, stupid, stupid people who have attained "higher" education.



Yeah, it's kind of depressing when I see some moron fratboy get a supervisory position. But, he's got the paperwork. Oh well, I'll finish up my college someday.

I swear, all you need is money, time, and a pulse, and some places will give you a degree.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:49:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 3:52:26 AM EDT by eodtech2000]
Yes. There are plenty of MOS's in the Army that don't require a lot of brain power to do correctly. They just need a motivated troop who can follow orders and get the job done. As far as I am concerned, I'd rather have High School drop out who is motivated and can follow orders than a Troop with a College degree who isn't motivated.

Soldiering isn't rocket science, look at the Common tasks manual. Everything has been reduced to a Keep it Simple format. My 11 year old son with a little training from me could master every damn task in that manual.


ETA: There are a few MOS's however like my old EOD MOS that require someone with some brain power as they are bit more technical in nature.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:50:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HillBillySasquatch:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.



I would be interested to know how that worked from what univeristy that didn't require transcripts, grades, etc....wow.





if you enter college as an adult(say 25) none of that shit matters....you test in



Mattered for me.

Guess things are different for different people/ schools.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:53:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:08:42 AM EDT
No. No.No.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:14:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:19:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.




Where are your degrees from? Devry? University of Quito, Ecuador?



jk


Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:39:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By POWER03:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I have a Bachelor's degree and a Doctorate, but neither a GED nor a HS diploma, so I'd have to say yes.




Where are your degrees from? Devry? University of Quito, Ecuador?
jk




Well, I was home-schooled for college and then went to a Montessori law school.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:47:20 AM EDT
I am all for bringing down the standards for the ARMY, it just makes the Marines look better
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:07:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 6:08:36 AM EDT by tripledouble]
As for standards to get a high school diploma, it doesn't say a lot if the person just got by and every high school has different passing standards to get a diploma. I think it would be okay for the Army to drop the HS diploma requirement only if they created a test that weeded out retards.
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