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Posted: 1/25/2006 8:43:22 PM EDT
i am in the peoples republic of Illinois

and there is a good chance we may very well loose our semiautos...

ie:turn them in to authorities,,have it rendered nonfunctional,,or move it out of state....

pure bs but i need a back up option if this goes through...

and no i cant move"job/pension/sick kid"

what would you use for a "rifle"

minies and kel-tec where not on the list as of yet....but it

may come to a bolt or lever/pump gun.

cross your fingers for us we are puttin pressure on them hard but we'll have to see

thanks in advance
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:44:37 PM EDT
Ummm, that is no option... They WONT take my guns even if I lived in that state....
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:45:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ops144:
i am in the peoples republic of Illinois

and there is a good chance we may very well loose our semiautos...

ie:turn them in to authorities,,have it rendered nonfunctional,,or move it out of state....

pure bs but i need a back up option if this goes through...

and no i cant move"job/pension/sick kid"

what would you use for a "rifle"

minies and kel-tec where not on the list as of yet....but it

may come to a bolt or lever/pump gun.

cross your fingers for us we are puttin pressure on them hard but we'll have to see

thanks in advance



I wouldnt turn my semi-auto into authorities, and still use it for SHTF.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:46:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 8:46:58 PM EDT by LonePathfinder]
Lee Enfield

Best bolt action ever.

10 round detachable magazine

Stripper Clip fed.

Some companies even make newly manufactured magazines so you could keep spare mags loaded.

I don't know if anyone makes a 308 clone. IIRC some company had planed to make new ones for a lot of money (~1000) but I don't think it ever went through. Could buy a milsurp and have it rebarreled and converted to 308 or other common caliber.

There are several scope mounting options from traditional to scout scopes.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:48:12 PM EDT
i'd say a marlin .30/30 lever gun would do just fine....that would be my choice, but i've never fired a pump-action rifle before
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:50:48 PM EDT
Buy Ak kit, flat, parts, mags, ammo + tools

Practice bending a few flats

It's not a firearm (receiver) until you make it one.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:51:11 PM EDT
I think that if the State of Illinois comes to confiscate your longarm the Shit has already Hit The Fan.

And I hate Illinois Nazis.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:51:36 PM EDT
Get a marlin 94 in .357
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:52:08 PM EDT
I'd have to go with my Model 94 in 30-30. A Remy 7615 might be a good alternate, but I have had a chance to fire one yet
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:55:31 PM EDT
Umm....sorry to tell this bud, but if it comes down to confiscation in your state....THAT IS SHTF.
So you will either have to move or....well, read this.

I just don't want to die alone
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:57:17 PM EDT
well, for Rodney King II, I was ready to run and gun with an 870 Police Magnum......
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:59:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Lee Enfield

Best bolt action ever.

10 round detachable magazine

Stripper Clip fed.

Some companies even make newly manufactured magazines so you could keep spare mags loaded.

I don't know if anyone makes a 308 clone. IIRC some company had planed to make new ones for a lot of money (~1000) but I don't think it ever went through. Could buy a milsurp and have it rebarreled and converted to 308 or other common caliber.

There are several scope mounting options from traditional to scout scopes.



+1 Great SHTF choice.

I'd also recommend a Marlin '92 Trapper, 16" barrel in .44mag. Terrific gun, fast, light, accurate and powerful. Also, won't attract attention like an EBR will. I use one for my truck gun.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:00:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Umm....sorry to tell this bud, but if it comes down to confiscation in your state....THAT IS SHTF.
So you will either have to move or....well, read this.

I just don't want to die alone



+1

Right on the money.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:03:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:05:53 PM EDT
Get you one of these Custom Marlin
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:08:24 PM EDT
Springfield 03 or Remmy 03A3. 30-06. Don't fuck them up by converting to .308.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:12:42 PM EDT
How about this:

Remington 7615p

Of course this assumes that hi-cap magazines are/will be legal.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:14:42 PM EDT
Many worthy rifles have been suggested.

In addition, I suggest a good pump 12g, with slugs and shot on hand.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:16:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 9:17:31 PM EDT by Mr-H]
The thought of having to give up or sell my AR is literally making me feel sick right now. I freaking hate Illinois.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:17:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:17:33 PM EDT
I have a few bolt/lever action hunting rifles (.22-250, .243,30-30), they would do the job. I would have a 12/20 ga. pump or three readily available as well. I knew being one of those damn hunters would pay off eventually
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:18:08 PM EDT
it's just a gun mang.

If you can't have semi-autos, not even M1 Garands and M1 carbines, get yourself a Kar 98K or Lee Enfeld No.4 for a battle rifle, and a 870 shotgun for close encounters.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:20:24 PM EDT
Remington 870 18" with slugs and buckshot
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:22:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scrum:
Buy Ak kit, flat, parts, mags, ammo + tools

Practice bending a few flats

It's not a firearm (receiver) until you make it one.


Absofuckinlutely
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:

Originally Posted By scrum:
Buy Ak kit, flat, parts, mags, ammo + tools

Practice bending a few flats

It's not a firearm (receiver) until you make it one.


Absofuckinlutely



Well the same could be done with AR and a 80% lower, no?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:27:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:

Originally Posted By scrum:
Buy Ak kit, flat, parts, mags, ammo + tools

Practice bending a few flats

It's not a firearm (receiver) until you make it one.


Absofuckinlutely



Well the same could be done with AR and a 80% lower, no?


Alot more work and money than bending a flat and riviting it together
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:30:32 PM EDT
I see a lot of you guys recomending civi type guns, like lever guns.

While I don't doubt the durability of them, they lack fire power. Small mag capacity and a long reload time....

I mean if we have to replace the semi in SHTF role you'd want that mag and loading ability, no?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:34:13 PM EDT
Here, let me repeat this...


"Why do you do that? What would you USE it for?"

My fellow cubicle-dweller is an interesting fellow. Former Special Forces grunt, son of a semi-famous actor. He burned out after being seriously injured in the army, and bummed around Asia doing god-knows-what before coming back to America. Then he bootstrapped his way to a fairly good tech writing job at the Silicon Valley branch of a Japanese robotics company. I feel a certain kinship with him. We've both made some serious mistakes for which we're paying some very serious prices. He's single; I'm divorced. He's cynical as hell and so am I. Neither of us has many friends outside work. I like him.

And that's why I told him how I spend most of my weekends. And that's why, when he asked his question, I gave an honest answer. An answer he found disturbing and offensive. I should have just shut up, or lied.

I shoot. A lot. I have, off and on, for decades. When I'm not shooting, or working, I'm cleaning up from shooting or getting ready to shoot. When I'm not practicing with my M1A, I practice with a .45. Sometimes just for variety I practice with a knife. What little money I have left after taxes, bills and child support, I spend on food and books and reloading stuff and surplus rifle ammo. Rarely in that order.

It's not for enjoyment. I tell people (and myself) that I enjoy it all to pieces, but the truth is I don't actually enjoy it that much. I'm hardly Jeff Cooper, but I'm at least good enough with a handgun to give a street mugger reason to regret his career choice. I don't hunt. I'm not planning a life of crime. So why spend so much time on it?

That's the question my friend asked me. It's the question I used to lay awake asking myself night after night, already knowing the answer. Along with, "am I crazy?"

My daughter flew up from LA to visit for a week during the holiday break, and inadvertently reinforced my reason for shooting so much. It was the first time I'd been to an airport since the Sept. 11 hijackings. I'd heard how much worse they'd gotten, but I still wasn't ready for what I found there:


After buying an e-ticket online, I was required to present proof of my identity at least three days before the flight or my daughter would not be allowed to board.

I was forbidden to enter the short-term parking lot until I consented to have my car searched. I didn't ask whether a cased rifle in the trunk (legal even in California) would cause the searcher to lose sphincter control. I just drove away unsearched and came back later.

While standing in the first of several lines in the airport, I noticed:

An Immense Machine scanning luggage for contraband, taking up space once used to welcome passengers. I thought the large American flag that covered it was a nice ironic touch.

A colorful illustrated sign listing the sorts of things you could be arrested for "smuggling" onto an airplane, such as plastic cutlery, corkscrews, and nail files.

A prominent notice that it was a federal offense not to inform the airline of firearms in checked baggage, which would of course be discovered by the Immense Machine. It's not, oddly enough, an offense to HAVE a firearm in checked baggage. But to be legal, the baggage must receive a sticker that says, in effect, "steal this bag."

When I arrived to meet my daughter's plane, I was refused permission to go to the gate. No amount of explaining, arguing, or pleading would produce an exception to this rule. This "protective" rule required my barely-teenage daughter to wander alone through a busy airport concourse until she happened to arrive at the closest location I could approach without being shot by national guardsmen.

When my daughter and I went to the security checkpoint for her return flight (you're allowed to escort a child to the gate, but not to pick one up there), an unpleasant woman with a heavy accent demanded that we remove our jackets, belts, and wallets and send them through the X-ray machine. Some passengers were required to remove their shoes.

Venerable elderly ladies were pulled aside for (random, I think) wand searches. One particular lady - blond, young, heart-breakingly well-built - received particular attention. She was apparently considered too dangerous for a mere wand search and needed to be patted down.

After I beeplessly passed through the metal detector, another woman refused to allow me to pass until I removed my hat. She ran her hand through the inside, very thoroughly. It's a rather old hat; I have a rather greasy head. I do hope she enjoyed it.

I looked around and noticed the postures of the national guardsmen who surrounded the checkpoint. You know: The ones posted at the airports to protect us from terrorists? They faced inward. Their M-16's, slung at the ready, were pointed at my daughter and me.
What particularly disturbed me about all this was how cheerfully my fellow herd members received it. We seemed to have fallen into a movie about occupied France, and it didn't bother anyone. I wanted to shake people by the shoulders. Either I was crazy, or everyone else in the airport was.

Later that afternoon I went to the range and burned through over 100 rounds of .308. Just gotta get those groups smaller from the prone position.

All of which leads me back to my friend's question, and to the bleak and offensive way I replied to it:

"I only expect to use it once," I told him.

"I fancy myself an honest man. I've never intentionally harmed an innocent soul, and I've never stolen so much as a slice of bread even when I was broke and hungry. I obey every law I can bring myself to, sometimes at the cost of self-contempt. But there are some things I CAN NOT do, and someday those things will be demanded of me. Then I'll be branded a dangerous criminal. And someone will come for me, and I'll resist. Then the shooting will start, and I'll likely be killed. I just don't want to die alone."

"Are you telling me," my friend asked, "That you'd shoot some poor pimple-faced grunt just because he was ordered to be the first one through your door?" I recalled that my friend had earlier said that he was assigned to "counter-terrorism" work in the Special Forces, and that his training had more to do with breaking down doors than storming bunkers. I looked up and met his eyes.

"I have to take the consequences of my choices," I replied, "And he has to take the consequences of his."

I wish I could believe that the original intent of our republic can be restored. I really do. Not long ago I re-read El Neil's and Aaron Zelman's book Hope. I leaned back in my chair and tried to retreat into a fantasy of what it would be like to have someone like Alexander Hope as president, providing a way for us to restore our liberty while punishing those guilty of stealing it from us. I just couldn't do it.

No president like that will arise. Americans won't rise up, either, even when it's too late. In the unlikely event we do organize for revolt, we'll lose. Since I can't imagine living in the future America I envision, I expect to die. And when I die, I don't expect to be surrounded by friends. So enemies will have to do. I just don't want to die alone.




If you turn your guns in, you will be betraying everything our Forefathers fought and died for.
You can move, you can hide your guns, but do not turn them in...
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:38:05 PM EDT
I would say a Marlin 30-30 Lever 336 scoped out. I have two of them and there are capable of some damn good shooting plus fast firing weapons. A 150 grain bullet moving at over 2400 ft per second hits damn hard. My nephew nailed a 200 pound deer just this year with this combination. Shoulder shot. Deer didn't go more than 10 ft and dropped like a rock. By the time we got there the deer was already damn near dead. It would be a cold day in hell however when the state of Ill. got my AR-15.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:40:47 PM EDT
when they take your guns, the SHIT HAS HIT THE FAN.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:42:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
I see a lot of you guys recomending civi type guns, like lever guns.

While I don't doubt the durability of them, they lack fire power. Small mag capacity and a long reload time....

I mean if we have to replace the semi in SHTF role you'd want that mag and loading ability, no?




Your're saying a 45/70 lacks fire-power??? I agree that the reload time is a bit slow, but I own a Marlin Guide gun in 45/70 and it by no means is lacking in the firepower department,
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:44:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
I see a lot of you guys recomending civi type guns, like lever guns.

While I don't doubt the durability of them, they lack fire power. Small mag capacity and a long reload time....

I mean if we have to replace the semi in SHTF role you'd want that mag and loading ability, no?



Lever guns don't lack firepower, if you're aiming.

8 shots is plenty.....and fast as hell if you need it to be.

I wouldn't feel undergunned with a good lever gun, especially in your typical SHTF scenario (riot, looters, etc.)
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:47:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Here, let me repeat this...


"Why do you do that? What would you USE it for?"

~~~SNIP~~~





If you turn your guns in, you will be betraying everything our Forefathers fought and died for.
You can move, you can hide your guns, but do not turn them in...



Damn. I feel like I just watched "Ol' Yeller" for the first time.

Remember: It doesn't matter if you don't have autos on the first day of the revolution because you will have them on the second day...
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:50:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
I see a lot of you guys recomending civi type guns, like lever guns.

While I don't doubt the durability of them, they lack fire power. Small mag capacity and a long reload time....

I mean if we have to replace the semi in SHTF role you'd want that mag and loading ability, no?



Lever guns don't lack firepower, if you're aiming.

8 shots is plenty.....and fast as hell if you need it to be.

I wouldn't feel undergunned with a good lever gun, especially in your typical SHTF scenario (riot, looters, etc.)



Yes if you are in a scenario that you can take aimed shots...

...but that same line of logic can be used for exactly this purpose...you "don't need semi auto or high capacity magazines!"

...sometimes you just need to put led down range, aimed yes, but rather rapidly, and I agree 8 round mag is ok, its the speed of reloading after that 8th shot.

Maybe I'm just spoiled for wanting more than I need
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:54:02 PM EDT
I certainly wouldnt feel under-equiped with a levergun during what would be considered a typical SHTF situation (civil unrest, natural disaster, etc). The key to using the levergun is shot management.... just like using a shotgun.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:54:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 9:56:17 PM EDT by MBWendel]
Maybe time spent calling and emailing the representatives of Illinois would be more useful than a thread about which rifle from the late 1800's is more suited to SHTF...

If you have called and emailed your representative, why dont you contact others? I sent emails to every one of the 118 representatives on the GOA list that had an email address, and have called over 40 of them at this point. If you have done all of this already, I am sorry for assuming you haven't. But, if you have done this or more, you would know to do it again. Get back to work and forget about selling your property.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:58:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
I see a lot of you guys recomending civi type guns, like lever guns.

While I don't doubt the durability of them, they lack fire power. Small mag capacity and a long reload time....

I mean if we have to replace the semi in SHTF role you'd want that mag and loading ability, no?



Lever guns don't lack firepower, if you're aiming.

8 shots is plenty.....and fast as hell if you need it to be.

I wouldn't feel undergunned with a good lever gun, especially in your typical SHTF scenario (riot, looters, etc.)



Gotta ask yourself "what would John Wayne do ? "

Proud lever gun owner here
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:00:03 PM EDT
fuck that, don't let them take shit, none of us should.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:01:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:39:02 PM EDT
I would go with a quality scoped detachable mag .308 until it gets banned.

Then go with a lever gun until it gets banned.

Then go with a single shot rifle until it gets banned.

Then go with a crossbow until it gets banned.

Then go with a compound bow until it gets banned.

Then go with a baseball bat until it gets banned.

Then I will then use a wooden slat that I pry off of the cattle car. I will wield it viciously against the guards as they drag me off to the showers.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:08:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Umm....sorry to tell this bud, but if it comes down to confiscation in your state....THAT IS SHTF.
So you will either have to move or....well, read this.

I just don't want to die alone



+1

Right on the money.




+2

"From my cold, dead hands..."
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:11:26 PM EDT
Senerio 1:
They take them 5 years from now and no one is going to do a damn thing.

Senerio 2:
They take them 25 years from now and no one is going to do a damn thing.


Get used to it. It will be an interesting ride.


Originally Posted By Maggot:
fuck that, don't let them take shit, none of us should.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 1:38:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BillofRights:
I would go with a quality scoped detachable mag .308 until it gets banned.

Then go with a lever gun until it gets banned.

Then go with a single shot rifle until it gets banned.

Then go with a crossbow until it gets banned.

Then go with a compound bow until it gets banned.

Then go with a baseball bat until it gets banned.

Then I will then use a wooden slat that I pry off of the cattle car. I will wield it viciously against the guards as they drag me off to the showers. hinking.gif



+1
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:10:34 AM EDT
No.5 Enfield Jungle carbine.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:20:26 AM EDT
Kinda ironic since SA ,Armalite and RRA all reside in IL.....
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:10:03 AM EDT
+1 on the Marlin 336.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:21:11 AM EDT

I can't believe it's gotten to a point where people will HAVE to turn over their Right. WT???

There is a lot worse than dying to uphold your Rights. I hope all of you lawful citizens in IL that turn over your guns suffer the anquish of being such a slave/chickenshit/pussy/traitor to the Constitution you are. May it haunt your days.

And turn in your man card.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:47:22 AM EDT
I think that in lieu of a semiautomatic carbine, one is left pretty much with either a pump action shotgun with a 7-8 round magazine like a Mossy 590, or perhaps a lever action rifle in something like .44 Magnum (that would allow you to also keep a .44 Mag revolver handy).
The Lee Enfield is a decent rifle, but it's day is over IMHO. I have a Gibbs LE #5 "Jungle carbine" repro (made from a cut down #4 action). It's a good little carbine and accurate, but I definately wouldn't want to rely upon that as my "go to" SHTF firearm. Everytime I take it to the firing range I find myself in total wonderment that this thing was actually used to equip an army (British SE Asia) during WWII.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:54:25 AM EDT
Why no mention of the Savage 99 lever gun? Strong as hell and chambered for the .308... That's a sweet gun.. fullclip
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:10:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Lee Enfield

Best bolt action ever.

10 round detachable magazine

Stripper Clip fed.

Some companies even make newly manufactured magazines so you could keep spare mags loaded.





I'm pretty sure that would make it illegal in Illinois, if I recall the bill correctly.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:20:10 AM EDT
Is there a semi-auto ban in the works for IL?
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