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Posted: 1/25/2006 3:28:54 PM EDT
Can a Claymore mine blow up without the detonators/caps installed? Some guy was telling a story at the motorcycle shop today of how it will blow up if you try and take one apart, I have an inert claymore mine and it comes apart fairly easy, the shroud/cover simply comes off with a screwdriver. Is it possible for it to expload without any caps or electrical current to it. I would think they would be totaly safe without the detonators installed. Any of you guys familiar with Claymores? Thanks. McM
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:30:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 3:31:04 PM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:38:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 3:42:53 PM EDT by motorcityman]
My "Inert" claymore used to be the real deal. Its the green plastic type and not the blue. It does have a blue stripe painted on it though, it has the ball bearings epoxyed on the inside. just the C4 has been removed. Alot of times they would take live claymores and convert them to trainers as thats what mine is and just paint a blue stripe on it to designate that its inert and for training purposes.

Edit to add that i have an M18A1
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:40:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 3:40:22 PM EDT by napalm]
Sounds like BS to me.



ETA: I'll give ya $10 bucks for it.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:41:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
Can a Claymore mine blow up without the detonators/caps installed? Some guy was telling a story at the motorcycle shop today of how it will blow up if you try and take one apart,



Mines, especially land mines, often have an anti-lifting device which consists of a separate detonator and triggering mechanism which will detonate the mine if it is lifted. There is no such equivalent for a Claymore. The guy likely confused two stories he was told at the gunshow by his Navy SEAL friend.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:43:34 PM EDT
1. What color is this thing? Blue or OD Green

2. If it is blue, there is no explosives in it at all.

3. If it is OD green, it will have a type of C4 inside behind a composit of washers, BB's, and various other metal objects.

Pat
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:44:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:47:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 3:47:51 PM EDT by eodtech2000]
On a live claymore, Yes you can detonate it without use of a cap in the cap well but it's MUCH more a pain in the ass to go this route.

Since a Claymore IIRC uses aprox. 1.5 lbs of C-4. C-4 pretty much needs a cap or other booster to high order, your chances of causing a high order with a screwdriver, hammer, etc are pretty slim.

BTW: I had to detonate some stolen C-4 for the Ellensburg WA police, some kids had come across it and tried to get it to detonate by hitting it will a hammer, for the darwin candidates it wasn't their lucky day.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:49:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
My "Inert" claymore used to be the real deal. Its the green plastic type and not the blue. It does have a blue stripe painted on it though, it has the ball bearings epoxyed on the inside. just the C4 has been removed. Alot of times they would take live claymores and convert them to trainers as thats what mine is and just paint a blue stripe on it to designate that its inert and for training purposes.

Edit to add that i have an M18A1



Take a picture of the inside please, id like to see that. No bad intentions or anything like that. Just curious.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:56:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
BTW: I had to detonate some stolen C-4 for the Ellensburg WA police, some kids had come across it and tried to get it to detonate by hitting it will a hammer, for the darwin candidates it wasn't their lucky day.


Question so what happened to those kids? Nothing right?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:00:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
BTW: I had to detonate some stolen C-4 for the Ellensburg WA police, some kids had come across it and tried to get it to detonate by hitting it will a hammer, for the darwin candidates it wasn't their lucky day.


Question so what happened to those kids? Nothing right?



They were convicted of possession of explosives IIRC.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:17:22 PM EDT
On a live Claymore, you would have to heat it up alot. (Set it on fire.) And then hit it with something. It takes both heat and pressure to set off C-4.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:24:55 PM EDT
I've seen people shoot the damn thing with a gun to detonate it in countless movies and television shows. Dayamm... don'cha all know that everything they show in movies is based on reality. Sheesshhhhh.

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:40:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 4:41:53 PM EDT by Tromatic]

Originally Posted By mrraley:
3. If it is OD green, it will have a type of C4 inside behind a composit of washers, BB's, and various other metal objects.
Pat




Except that his is inert, and there are no washers, bb's, or shop floor sweepings in a Claymore.
Claymore
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:45:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KyBlaster:
On a live Claymore, you would have to heat it up alot. (Set it on fire.) And then hit it with something. It takes both heat and pressure to set off C-4.



Or an electrical detonation via a blasting cap.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:51:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By colesteele:

Originally Posted By KyBlaster:
On a live Claymore, you would have to heat it up alot. (Set it on fire.) And then hit it with something. It takes both heat and pressure to set off C-4.



Or an electrical detonation via a blasting cap.



I was refering to setting it off without a blasting cap.

But since you mention it. A detonator produces heat and pressure that is how it sets off an explosive charge.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:36:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 12:49:43 AM EDT by bmick325]

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
My "Inert" claymore used to be the real deal. Its the green plastic type and not the blue. It does have a blue stripe painted on it though, it has the ball bearings epoxyed on the inside. just the C4 has been removed. Alot of times they would take live claymores and convert them to trainers as thats what mine is and just paint a blue stripe on it to designate that its inert and for training purposes.

Edit to add that i have an M18A1



You have an "early" inert claymore, M18A1. Like you said, they were made by downloading the explosives and everything else is original configuration. At some point, the military realized they could be reloaded with C-4 and functioned as designed. This led to the military discontinuing their use and going to a newer fill. FYI, these are considered very desirable by inert ordnance collectors.

The later version of the inert claymore, M33, used washers in an epoxy matrix. The mine casing will usually be blue, but I have seen a few green ones with washers. Good for training troops, but produces less than the desired effect if reloaded and expended.

FYI, "Top" gets pissed when you blow up training aids to test your theories.


Here's what the inside of a real M18A1 Claymore looks like.




ETA: Nothing is sacred!

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:06:49 PM EDT
You can set off a claymore without a detonator.

There was the famous case of the Vietnam Ranger team on a hillside on the Vietnam-Laos border who were hit by lightening.

They were up near the clouds when one team member keyed the mike on their radio.
Lightening struck the antenna, and set off claymores in their packs.
Most of the team was seriously injured.
For a full account, read "Eyes Behind the Lines" by Gary Linderer
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:14:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
You can set off a claymore without a detonator.

There was the famous case of the Vietnam Ranger team on a hillside on the Vietnam-Laos border who were hit by lightening.

They were up near the clouds when one team member keyed the mike on their radio.
Lightening struck the antenna, and set off claymores in their packs.
Most of the team was seriously injured.
For a full account, read "Eyes Behind the Lines" by Gary Linderer



A lightning bolt produces 100 million volts of electricity instantly. It makes both tremendous heat and pressure. More than adequete to set off any explosives charge.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:15:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
Can a Claymore mine blow up without the detonators/caps installed? Some guy was telling a story at the motorcycle shop today of how it will blow up if you try and take one apart, I have an inert claymore mine and it comes apart fairly easy, the shroud/cover simply comes off with a screwdriver. Is it possible for it to expload without any caps or electrical current to it. I would think they would be totaly safe without the detonators installed. Any of you guys familiar with Claymores? Thanks. McM



If I remember correctly claymores use plastic explosives and thus require specific detonation to go off.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:16:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
BTW: I had to detonate some stolen C-4 for the Ellensburg WA police, some kids had come across it and tried to get it to detonate by hitting it will a hammer, for the darwin candidates it wasn't their lucky day.



Hey billy bob!

What, cletus?

I found some plastic explosive!

What are we gonna do with it, cletus?

Let's hit that sh*t with a hammer, billy bob!

I'll get mah tool box, cletus!!
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:30:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:
Sounds like BS to me.



ETA: I'll give ya $10 bucks for it.





Offer still stands.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:28:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By napalm:
Sounds like BS to me.



ETA: I'll give ya $10 bucks for it.





Offer still stands.



lol...
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:35:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By napalm:
Sounds like BS to me.



ETA: I'll give ya $10 bucks for it.





Offer still stands.



I'd rather throw it in the garbage then sell it to you for ten bucks
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:54:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bmick325:

FYI, "Top" gets pissed when you blow up training aids to test your theories.






I see you speak from experience.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:58:21 PM EDT
As stated before you need heat and pressure to set off C4. You can hit it with a hammer all day or set it on fire without detonation occurring. Do it together though and it will go off. You can even make playdoo guys out of it. These properties are why the military switched from Dynamite to C4. The military still uses Dynamite but rarely.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:59:54 PM EDT
FRONT TOWARD ENEMY
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:09:57 PM EDT
i have heard salty types tell me that in desert storm they would pry the claymores open, cut the C4 into thin strips to cook with or help ignite wet wood. i cant verify it but the guys who told me arent typically prone to BS
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:36:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
i have heard salty types tell me that in desert storm they would pry the claymores open, cut the C4 into thin strips to cook with or help ignite wet wood. i cant verify it but the guys who told me arent typically prone to BS



Umm......

Even a little bit of C4 packs one hell of a punch.

I sincerely doubt they were using it to cook with or to light wet wood. (How much wet wood was there in the Iraqi desert, anyway???) C4 doesn't work like gunpower in that putting a match to it will light it up. It requires more than that to ignite. And when it does, the result is not a burn but an explosion, which would most likely end up injuring them.

So ya....Those salty types sound full of horse manure.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:41:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
i have heard salty types tell me that in desert storm they would pry the claymores open, cut the C4 into thin strips to cook with or help ignite wet wood. i cant verify it but the guys who told me arent typically prone to BS



Umm......

Even a little bit of C4 packs one hell of a punch.

I sincerely doubt they were using it to cook with or to light wet wood. (How much wet wood was there in the Iraqi desert, anyway???) C4 doesn't work like gunpower in that putting a match to it will light it up. It requires more than that to ignite. And when it does, the result is not a burn but an explosion, which would most likely end up injuring them.

So ya....Those salty types sound full of horse manure.



umm. No.

How's about we all stick to talking about things we actually have experience with outside of reading a Mack Bolan book?



Oh, hell, I forgot...that just wouldn't be ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:46:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:47:44 AM EDT
C4 burns pretty well actually, it was one of the warning they give the Lts at TBS, troops use to have a bad habit of using it instead of hex/tri tabs to heat water.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:17:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By modog:
umm. No.

How's about we all stick to talking about things we actually have experience with outside of reading a Mack Bolan book?



Oh, hell, I forgot...that just wouldn't be ARFCOM.



So you are telling me that lots of guys were burning wet wood with C4 during Desert Storm?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:22:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 4:24:06 AM EDT by napalm]

Originally Posted By motorcityman:

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By napalm:
Sounds like BS to me.



ETA: I'll give ya $10 bucks for it.





Offer still stands.



I'd rather throw it in the garbage then sell it to you for ten bucks





Fine then.



$15 bucks.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:25:33 AM EDT
Hit it with a hammer and report back to us.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:29:48 AM EDT
Heat and pressure.
So does that mean you could possibly set it off by shooting it with a tracer from behind?
jb
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:34:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KyBlaster:
On a live Claymore, you would have to heat it up alot. (Set it on fire.) And then hit it with something. It takes both heat and pressure to set off C-4.




Ding, ding, ding, Bingo!

Heat and pressure for C4. You can burn it, or you can beat it, just don't do both simultaneously. Now some dynamite will get you in trouble if you beat it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:36:20 AM EDT
There wasn't a whole lot of wood, other than our dunnage and class IV, barricade material. Not allot of burn out there.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:47:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
There wasn't a whole lot of wood, other than our dunnage and class IV, barricade material. Not allot of burn out there.



Exactly my point.

I sincerely doubt there were guys running around in Desert Storm using C4 to burn wet wood so they could cook with it.

The fact that if you had a dollar for every tree in the Iraq/Kuwati desert you would still be pretty poor has something to do with it. Also, there isn't a whole lot of rain to make what little wood you can find there wet. AND the troops had MREs, which meant that they didn't have a whole lot of call for cooking fires.

Add further that I didn't believe matches alone produced sufficient heat to cause C4 to go boom. In fact, I thought that special detonators were used to cause reliable ignition of C4 as it is a pretty STABLE explosive.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:53:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ProtoJoe:
Heat and pressure.
So does that mean you could possibly set it off by shooting it with a tracer from behind?
jb


Not very reliably. You Might get one in 100 to detonate but that would be iffy at best. Military explosives are SPECIFICALLY designed to resist detonation by gunfire, unlike Tannerite or even dynamite.

Yes, most military explosives burn great BUT they can detonate en masse if there is too much in the fire or if you try to snuff out the fire with your boot.

Some trivia no one posted here...some servicemen found out chewing on a small pellet of C4 would make them "high". Funny how the cyclonite (RDX if you are British) is a powerful neurotoxin, once used in rat poison. Yes, using C4 to cook with gives off fumes which can be toxic, hence its use in closed mining is discouraged.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:58:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
C4 burns pretty well actually, it was one of the warning they give the Lts at TBS, troops use to have a bad habit of using it instead of hex/tri tabs to heat water.



Heard similar stuff from a ex.mil.
He said that they used small balls of C-4 to cook stuff.
If it is just lit with a match, it won't explode but give off a lot of heat just right for cooking.

Disclaimer; I heard this from a guy I trust, but if you decide to do try this, do it on your one responsibility.
And video it from the point where you get somebody to hold your beer
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:59:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By ProtoJoe:
Heat and pressure.
So does that mean you could possibly set it off by shooting it with a tracer from behind?
jb


Not very reliably. You Might get one in 100 to detonate but that would be iffy at best. Military explosives are SPECIFICALLY designed to resist detonation by gunfire, unlike Tannerite or even dynamite.

Yes, most military explosives burn great BUT they can detonate en masse if there is too much in the fire or if you try to snuff out the fire with your boot.

Some trivia no one posted here...some servicemen found out chewing on a small pellet of C4 would make them "high". Funny how the cyclonite (RDX if you are British) is a powerful neurotoxin, once used in rat poison. Yes, using C4 to cook with gives off fumes which can be toxic, hence its use in closed mining is discouraged.



You are suppose to wear gloves when working with it, the nitrogen is readily absorbed by the skin and will cause a hellatous pounding head ache. I know everyone has probably handled it without, but when going through the demo package at school we were required to wear our black outserts.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:03:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By ProtoJoe:
Heat and pressure.
So does that mean you could possibly set it off by shooting it with a tracer from behind?
jb


Not very reliably. You Might get one in 100 to detonate but that would be iffy at best. Military explosives are SPECIFICALLY designed to resist detonation by gunfire, unlike Tannerite or even dynamite.

Yes, most military explosives burn great BUT they can detonate en masse if there is too much in the fire or if you try to snuff out the fire with your boot.

Some trivia no one posted here...some servicemen found out chewing on a small pellet of C4 would make them "high". Funny how the cyclonite (RDX if you are British) is a powerful neurotoxin, once used in rat poison. Yes, using C4 to cook with gives off fumes which can be toxic, hence its use in closed mining is discouraged.


i was just gonna add that guys used to eat little bits of c-4 to make 'em sick so they could get out of work details and such. also knew a vn vet who saw someone blow his heel off when he was using a little ball of c-4 to heat his c-rats. they were told to pack their shit and move out in short order and the guy stomped on it to put it out...*boom!*

i've also seen c-4 boil water in a canteen cup in nothing flat, so it is a good cooker!
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:05:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Add further that I didn't believe matches alone produced sufficient heat to cause C4 to go boom. In fact, I thought that special detonators were used to cause reliable ignition of C4 as it is a pretty STABLE explosive.

You are correct, matches will NOT cause C4 to explode, but it will cause C4 to burn. To claim C4 will not burn means you're talking outside an area of your expertise.

The problem comes when the troops try to put out their C4 fire, they'd stomp on it. The heat of combustion, plus their boot putting pressure on it, would cause the C4 to go off and then you've got to call a medivac for Stumpy.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:08:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By ProtoJoe:
Heat and pressure.
So does that mean you could possibly set it off by shooting it with a tracer from behind?
jb


Not very reliably. You Might get one in 100 to detonate but that would be iffy at best. Military explosives are SPECIFICALLY designed to resist detonation by gunfire, unlike Tannerite or even dynamite.

Yes, most military explosives burn great BUT they can detonate en masse if there is too much in the fire or if you try to snuff out the fire with your boot.

Some trivia no one posted here...some servicemen found out chewing on a small pellet of C4 would make them "high". Funny how the cyclonite (RDX if you are British) is a powerful neurotoxin, once used in rat poison. Yes, using C4 to cook with gives off fumes which can be toxic, hence its use in closed mining is discouraged.



You are suppose to wear gloves when working with it, the nitrogen is readily absorbed by the skin and will cause a hellatous pounding head ache. I know everyone has probably handled it without, but when going through the demo package at school we were required to wear our black outserts.



Not cyclonite but nitroglycerine. Nitroglycerine is a powerful vasodilator, hence its use in cardiac patients (nitro pills, sublingual spray and more recently, the patch). But those who handle nitroglycerine dynamite get a serious overdose, leading to increased intercranial pressure and that pounding headache.

If you get sick from cyclonite (RDX, the main component of C4), you will have more than a pounding headache. Convulsions, hypnosis and even death....
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 1:50:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Add further that I didn't believe matches alone produced sufficient heat to cause C4 to go boom. In fact, I thought that special detonators were used to cause reliable ignition of C4 as it is a pretty STABLE explosive.

You are correct, matches will NOT cause C4 to explode, but it will cause C4 to burn. To claim C4 will not burn means you're talking outside an area of your expertise. he
Kharn



This is very true. It was quite common for Engineers in the Army to use C-4 to cook and start fires when I was in there.(pre-Desert Storm) C-4 was readily available to Engineers. It is reletivley easy to light with a couple of matches or a lighter. The problems is the toxic fumes and the fact that it burns for a long time. If you lay a piece on the ground and plie wood on it and as the wood is burning it shifts or something it could go off.
And any attempt to put out burning C-4 will almost always cause it to detonate. Especially pouring water on it. As will any burning explosive.
Other than that C-4 is a highly stable explosive. It will not cause headaches due to nitroglycren. It is also widley used in comercial explosives. (Cast Boosters) It is melted down and mixed with Pentarithratol-Tetrenitrate (Spelling may be off) to make a substance known as Pentalite. It is then poured into molds and forms Cast Boosters. Used mostly to increase detonation velocities of ANFO. Although they have alot of other uses too.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:38:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tromatic:

Originally Posted By mrraley:
3. If it is OD green, it will have a type of C4 inside behind a composit of washers, BB's, and various other metal objects.
Pat




Except that his is inert, and there are no washers, bb's, or shop floor sweepings in a Claymore.
Claymore



The one you make from an MRE bag, duct tape, 2 tent pegs, and a piece of sheetmetal (from a stop sign or something) might have some shop floor sweepings in it.

Of course, you still need to get some C4 and a blasting cap from somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:48:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
i have heard salty types tell me that in desert storm they would pry the claymores open, cut the C4 into thin strips to cook with or help ignite wet wood. i cant verify it but the guys who told me arent typically prone to BS



First time I heard that gunstore BS it was in the 1970s, and it was VN types.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:53:34 PM EDT
If you want to blow a claymore without caps pry the cover off, trying hard to keep the HE from sticking to the cover (much like an Oreo cookie).

Scrape out some of the HE and then tie a yuley (sp?) knot of det cord after running the end through the cap hole. Put the knot in the divet you made in the HE. Put the cover back on and throw a few wraps of tape for good measure. Connect other claymores like this in a mainline or ring and you have a nice defensive perimeter...
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:56:54 PM EDT
Do any of you know the difference between US Army issued M18A1 and USMC issued M18A1?

Army- "FRONT TOWARD ENEMY"

Marines- "DO NOT EAT"


Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:03:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
Can a Claymore mine blow up without the detonators/caps installed? Some guy was telling a story at the motorcycle shop today of how it will blow up if you try and take one apart, I have an inert claymore mine and it comes apart fairly easy, the shroud/cover simply comes off with a screwdriver. Is it possible for it to expload without any caps or electrical current to it. I would think they would be totaly safe without the detonators installed. Any of you guys familiar with Claymores? Thanks. McM


My guess is he watched S.W.A.T. one too many times.
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