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Posted: 1/25/2006 4:50:23 AM EDT
anyone know what all what they stood for before they got in power?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:51:21 AM EDT
nationalism
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:58:49 AM EDT
i need a bit more spacific
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:01:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ring:
anyone know what all what they stood for before they got in power?



What they stood for while in power.

Hitler was one of the most honest political leaders in history. He told people exactly what he stood for and he carried it through.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:21:29 AM EDT
"He told people exactly what he stood for "

thats kinda what im looking for...
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:28:43 AM EDT
They stood for a strong nationalist Germany. They presented themselves as a solution to Germany's economic and political woes. Any time there is hunger, rampant inflation and governmental instability, parties like the Nazis, communists and democrats come crawling out of the woodwork offering solutions. What they are really doing is trying to seize power for their own ends.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:40:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ring:
"He told people exactly what he stood for "

thats kinda what im looking for...



He wrote Mein Kampf in which he detailed exactly what he stood for and what he would do with power.

Try reading it if you are serious about learning what they stood for.

From the very beginning, the Nazi party was all about Hitler.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:41:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Ring:
anyone know what all what they stood for before they got in power?



What they stood for while in power.

Hitler was one of the most honest political leaders in history. He told people exactly what he stood for and he carried it through.



I don't think Hitler was too forthcoming about the whole Jew killing thing.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:54:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By efpeter:
I don't think Hitler was too forthcoming about the whole Jew killing thing.



Umm....

"For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever really be eradicated. Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst. (Applause)"

Speech delivered by Hitler in 1920

"Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!"

Speech by Hitler in 1939

"And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews."

Statement made by Hitler in 1942

""From the rostrum of the Reichstag, I prophesied to Jewry that, in the event of war’s proving inevitable, the Jew would disappear from Europe. That race of criminals has on its conscience the two million dead of the First World War, and now already hundreds and thousands more. Let nobody tell me that all the same we can’t park them in the marshy parts of Russia! Who’s worrying about our troops? It’s not a bad idea, by the way, that public rumor attributes to us a plan to exterminate the Jews. Terror is a salutary thing."

Statement made by Hitler in 1942

Ya.

They knew.

Hitler was many things.

But he was one honest son of a bitch.

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:25:32 AM EDT
Germany was being racked by rampant inflation. Their national honor had been destroyed at the end of the war (long story look it up). The Weimar Republic was in debt to the victors up to their ass. The Commies were trying to take over, etc etc. Ineffective government.

The Nazi's presented what appeared to be a reasonable answer for most Germans to the troubles of the country. A return to national honor, stopping the Commies, fix the economy, etc.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:40:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 8:47:46 AM EDT by silascobb]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By efpeter:
I don't think Hitler was too forthcoming about the whole Jew killing thing.



Ya.

They knew.

Hitler was many things.

But he was one honest son of a bitch.




I agree wholeheartedly that Hitler was honest about "The Jewish Question" from the beginning. However, he and the Nazi party were less than honest in their affairs to dominate Europe. They manufactured propoganda and spread it to the German people by controlling the media. Example: 1 Sept. 1939 Hitler had some Nazi commandos dressed up to look like Polish Army blow up a radio station in Germany just across the border from Poland. The media reported it as an attack by the Poles against Germany. That was used (propoganda) to invade Poland, in "defense" of the Reich.

LINKY

Edited to correct typo, and to add: For more than you'd ever want to know about the political underpinnings and personalities in Nazi Germany: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:59:06 AM EDT
Lebenstraum!
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:00:44 AM EDT
Actually, Hitler didn't found the Nazi party.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:42:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By silascobb:
I agree wholeheartedly that Hitler was honest about "The Jewish Question" from the beginning. However, he and the Nazi party were less than honest in their affairs to dominate Europe. They manufactured propoganda and spread it to the German people by controlling the media. Example: 1 Sept. 1939 Hitler had some Nazi commandos dressed up to look like Polish Army blow up a radio station in Germany just across the border from Poland. The media reported it as an attack by the Poles against Germany. That was used (propoganda) to invade Poland, in "defense" of the Reich.



Hitler made no effort to conceal his major aims:

To gain absolute power within Germany
To fight a war to right the "wrongs" of the Versailles (I never could spell that...)
To war against the Jews

There was certainly deception in some of the events and procedures surrounding those major aims, but he was forthright about his major goals.

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:47:13 AM EDT
The 25 Points of the Nazi Party.

With such Leftardarific gems as:



14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.



The Nazis were lefty socialists, and their '25 Points' proves it.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:48:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By efpeter:
I don't think Hitler was too forthcoming about the whole Jew killing thing.



Umm....

"For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever really be eradicated. Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst. (Applause)"

Speech delivered by Hitler in 1920

"Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!"

Speech by Hitler in 1939

"And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews."

Statement made by Hitler in 1942

""From the rostrum of the Reichstag, I prophesied to Jewry that, in the event of war’s proving inevitable, the Jew would disappear from Europe. That race of criminals has on its conscience the two million dead of the First World War, and now already hundreds and thousands more. Let nobody tell me that all the same we can’t park them in the marshy parts of Russia! Who’s worrying about our troops? It’s not a bad idea, by the way, that public rumor attributes to us a plan to exterminate the Jews. Terror is a salutary thing."

Statement made by Hitler in 1942

Ya.

They knew.

Hitler was many things.

But he was one honest son of a bitch.




No, he was a retarded bitch. Aside from having the military mind of a elementary school kid, he also capitalized on people's unfounded and long standing hate of Jews. Here's a clue: the Jews didn't cause the great depression. Also, Jews do not control international finance! This beleif that Jews have their hands on everything money related is from the fact the BRILLIANT church decided good christians shouldn't lend money with interest, and hence only Jews could participate in banking... close to a thousand years ago.

Hitler blaming jews for Germany's problems is retarded. He was one of Germany's problems.

Do you hate jews too??? Thinking hitler was "honest"?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:02:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:

No, he was a retarded bitch.



Regardless of the moral status of his actions, that is a pretty silly thing to say.

Get back to us after you have taken control of a country of 60 million people...
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:06:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
The 25 Points of the Nazi Party.

With such Leftardarific gems as:



14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.



The Nazis were lefty socialists, and their '25 Points' proves it.



They weren't lefty socialists. Socialism is based on the economic basis, while national socialism works as a means to make the nation as powerful as possible, ASAP.

Lefty Socialist: Good for the masses of people.
Rightwing Socialism (National Socialism): Good for our country to kick anothers ass, I.E., trying to become a jaganught.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:11:00 AM EDT
Hitler and the Nazi Party ran on a platform of:
1) Avenging German Pride over the Treaty of Versailles.
2) Reestablishing German preeminence in Europe.
3) Rebuilding Germany economically and putting out of work Germans back to work.
4) Rebuilding Germany politically/economically as the core of of a Greater German "Reich" including those parts of pre-WWI Germany which had been stripped from the Reich; East Prussia (Poland), the Saar, and uniting ethnic Germans in Austria and Southern (Sudeten) Czechoslovakia as part of a "Pan Germanic Reich".

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

There was a lot of popular sentiment for all of those policies.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:12:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 10:15:01 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
No, he was a retarded bitch. Aside from having the military mind of a elementary school kid, he also capitalized on people's unfounded and long standing hate of Jews. Here's a clue: the Jews didn't cause the great depression. Also, Jews do not control international finance! This beleif that Jews have their hands on everything money related is from the fact the BRILLIANT church decided good christians shouldn't lend money with interest, and hence only Jews could participate in banking... close to a thousand years ago.

Hitler blaming jews for Germany's problems is retarded. He was one of Germany's problems.

Do you hate jews too??? Thinking hitler was "honest"?



Is this your first attempt at joining an adult discussion?

If so, try again later.

Crimony. I suppose you would get mad if I said that Hitler was "well organized" too, right?

Hitler made no attempt to conceal his major aims in taking power, and he made good on those aims. He was HONEST. He did not run on a pro-Jew campaign and then turn and kill all the Jews. He ran PRECISELY on getting rid of the Jews, and then proceeded to do exactly that when he was in power.

If you believe saying something like that is indicative of my "hating" Jews, then you need help.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:16:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
nationalism



You left out a word...
National SOCIALISM.
Nazi's and other fascists, have always been, and always will be, the children of the left.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:20:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
No, he was a retarded bitch. Aside from having the military mind of a elementary school kid, he also capitalized on people's unfounded and long standing hate of Jews. Here's a clue: the Jews didn't cause the great depression. Also, Jews do not control international finance! This beleif that Jews have their hands on everything money related is from the fact the BRILLIANT church decided good christians shouldn't lend money with interest, and hence only Jews could participate in banking... close to a thousand years ago.

Hitler blaming jews for Germany's problems is retarded. He was one of Germany's problems.

Do you hate jews too??? Thinking hitler was "honest"?



Is this your first attempt at joining an adult discussion?

If so, try again later.

Crimony. I suppose you would get mad if I said that Hitler was "well organized" too, right?

Hitler made no attempt to conceal his major aims in taking power, and he made good on those aims. He was HONEST. He did not run on a pro-Jew campaign and then turn and kill all the Jews. He ran PRECISELY on getting rid of the Jews, and then proceeded to do exactly that when he was in power.

If you believe saying something like that is indicative of my "hating" Jews, then you need help.



Don't blame him John_Wayne777.
He is a product of the modern school system.

And how was Hitler retarted in blaming the Jews for Germany's problems?
No shit the depression wasn't the Jews fault...ever heard of a scapegoat?
Hitler, while militarily deficient, was a political mastermind.
He knew exactly how to play people to get them behind his program.
Closest person I can compare him to, in terms of being able to play people, is Bill Clinton.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:26:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
The 25 Points of the Nazi Party.

With such Leftardarific gems as:



14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.



The Nazis were lefty socialists, and their '25 Points' proves it.



Thanks for that link.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:27:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
nationalism



You left out a word...
National SOCIALISM.
Nazi's and other fascists, have always been, and always will be, the children of the left.



Exactly, the german name was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche. It means the National Socialists German.

Ignore all of those pro-socialism liberals calling Bush is a Nazi, because you'll end up trying to explain to them that they are thus stating they like Bush, because a Nazi is a socialist.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:34:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 10:35:16 AM EDT by Poodleshooter]

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Lefty Socialist: Good for the masses of people poor and those unwilling to work. Screws the wealthy .
Rightwing Socialism (National Socialism): Good for our country to kick anothers ass, I.E., trying to become a jaganught.


Lefty socialism encourages people not to work through unintended economic disincentives.
Rightwing socialism forces the people to work and produce for the perceived good of the nation/group.
Economically they both produce incentives not to work very hard,because in neither situation are you personally rewarded as well as in pure capitalism. Left wing rewards the non-workers, right wing rewards the state.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:35:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 10:36:12 AM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Lefty Socialist: Good for the masses of people poor and those unwilling to work. Screws the wealthy .
Rightwing Socialism (National Socialism): Good for our country to kick anothers ass, I.E., trying to become a jaganught.


Lefty socialism encourages people not to work through unintended economic disincentives.
Rightwing socialism forces the people to work and produce for the perceived good of the nation/group.
Economically they both produce incentives not to work very hard,because in neither situation are you personally rewarded as well as in pure capitalism. Left wing rewards the non-workers, right wing rewards the state.



All socialism is leftist!
What is wrong with you people?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:43:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 10:44:29 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:44:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Lefty Socialist: Good for the masses of people poor and those unwilling to work. Screws the wealthy .
Rightwing Socialism (National Socialism): Good for our country to kick anothers ass, I.E., trying to become a jaganught.


Lefty socialism encourages people not to work through unintended economic disincentives.
Rightwing socialism forces the people to work and produce for the perceived good of the nation/group.
Economically they both produce incentives not to work very hard,because in neither situation are you personally rewarded as well as in pure capitalism. Left wing rewards the non-workers, right wing rewards the state.



You get the gist of what I was talking about, though I may have worded it a bit briefly.

Having to work due to a KGB gaurd behind you is one thing, but telling people to work hard due to the fact Germany will rise and will reap the benefits of her true greatness is another. Nationalism, pride, hard-working past, etc., all being good to a table of nation, like Hilter's Germany.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:44:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Lefty Socialist: Good for the masses of people poor and those unwilling to work. Screws the wealthy .
Rightwing Socialism (National Socialism): Good for our country to kick anothers ass, I.E., trying to become a jaganught.


Lefty socialism encourages people not to work through unintended economic disincentives.
Rightwing socialism forces the people to work and produce for the perceived good of the nation/group.
Economically they both produce incentives not to work very hard,because in neither situation are you personally rewarded as well as in pure capitalism. Left wing rewards the non-workers, right wing rewards the state.



All socialism is leftist!
What is wrong with you people?



Socialism isn't black and white, it has many shades depending mostly on the type of government. Some is more authoritarian, others more fluid.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 10:50:43 AM EDT
While Hitler did not start the Nazi party he turned it in to a cult of personality. The Nazi party stated that you must have one leader to control the nation and that leader was Hitler.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:02:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 11:03:40 AM EDT by atrophis]
Just to make sure were clear on what NAZI actually means, NAZI is short for 'Nazional Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiteren Partei' which means National Socialist German Workers Party.

ETA: So FYI NAZIs were socialists.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:11:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 11:12:06 AM EDT by Dino]

Originally Posted By atrophis:
Just to make sure were clear on what NAZI actually means, NAZI is short for 'Nazional Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiteren Partei' which means National Socialist German Workers Party.

ETA: So FYI NAZIs were socialists.




So going by that logic then, the German Democratic Republic (aka East Germany) was a democratic republic?

What about groups like Christian Identity, are they really Christian?

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:13:45 AM EDT
Hitler came to power under the banner of National Socialism but their political party didn't gain strength until they allied with the "Socialist Democrats". (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, commonly called NSDAP or the Nazi Party)

Wikpedia NSDAP

In the beginning of 1918, a party called the Freier Ausschuss für einen deutschen Arbeiterfrieden (Free Committee for a German Workers' Peace) was created in Bremen, Germany. (6) Anton Drexler, locksmith and poet, formed a branch of this league on March 7, 1918, in Munich. In 1919, Drexler, with Gottfried Feder, Dietrich Eckart and Karl Harrer, changed its name to the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (German Workers' Party, abbreviated DAP). This party was the formal forerunner of the NSDAP, and became one of many völkisch movements that existed in Germany after its defeat in World War I. In order to investigate the DAP, German army intelligence sent a young corporal, Adolf Hitler, to monitor party activities. However, he was impressed by what he saw, and he joined as Member Number 555, although Hitler later claimed to be "Party Member number 7" to make it look like he was a founder. He was, in actual fact, only the 55th member of the DAP but the party began its membership totals from 500 in order to appear larger. He was in fact the 7th member of the DAP's central committee. At this early stage, Hitler brought up the idea of renaming the party, and he proposed the name "Social Revolutionary Party" (4). However, Rudolf Jung insisted that the party should follow the pattern of Austria's Deutsche Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei. As a consequence, the DAP was shortly renamed the NSDAP on February 24, 1920.

Socialism

n 1: a political theory advocating state ownership of industry 2: an economic system based on state ownership of capital [syn: socialist economy] [ant: capitalism]

Cap·i·tal·ism

n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. [syn: capitalist economy] [ant: socialism]


Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:23:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 11:25:06 AM EDT by atrophis]

Originally Posted By Dino:
So going by that logic then, the German Democratic Republic (aka East Germany) was a democratic republic?

What about groups like Christian Identity, are they really Christian?




Well, it could be argued that Christian Identity are Christians, however I get your point.

ETA: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Other ideologies including the word "socialism"

Like other political terms, such as liberal, conservative and democratic (see, for example, the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, which is, according to critics, neither liberal nor democratic), the words socialism or socialist have sometimes been used in self-description by groups that had little or no connection with the historical socialist movement, and who sometimes openly and virulently opposed the socialists in their countries.

The German Nazis ("National Socialists") used the word "socialist" in their official name, but most scholars argue that this was done purely for propaganda purposes and that they tended to adopt either a pro-worker or pro-business line depending on the given audience. The Nazis did demand some nationalization of big industries and land reform before their rise to power. However, once in power, they allowed (friendly) capitalists to thrive while liquidating socialists everywhere (including from within their own party in the Night of the Long Knives). Socialists reject the racialist theories and totalitarianism of the Nazis, while Nazis rejected the internationalism, egalitarianism and social class-oriented perspective of the socialists. (See: Nazism and Socialism).
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:36:25 AM EDT

This beleif that Jews have their hands on everything money related is from the fact the BRILLIANT church decided good christians shouldn't lend money with interest, and hence only Jews could participate in banking... close to a thousand years ago.


actually, this is untrue. Both Christians and Jews in Moorish Spain participated in banking and interest taking, there was no Jewish monopoly on banking, and such a comment is pretty anti-Jewish in of itself. It is saying,"The Jews didn't control the economy although they owned all of the banks... because the Christian church prevented Christians from running them" the last clause does not remove the fact that according to you, Jews DID in fact control banking.

To answer the OP, the nazi party was right-wing authoritarian, compare that to the right-wing libertarian party that we called the Republicans in this country, not the RINOs that make up the political party now.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:39:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Ring:
anyone know what all what they stood for before they got in power?



What they stood for while in power.

Hitler was one of the most honest political leaders in history. He told people exactly what he stood for and he carried it through.



Untrue. Nazism is National Socialism. They ran on socialist and nationalist idea i nthe early 30's. Later, Hitler shifted away from the socialist views and ran primarily on nationalism.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:41:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Ring:
anyone know what all what they stood for before they got in power?



What they stood for while in power.

Hitler was one of the most honest political leaders in history. He told people exactly what he stood for and he carried it through.



Untrue. Nazism is National Socialism. They ran on socialist and nationalist idea i nthe early 30's. Later, Hitler shifted away from the socialist views and ran primarily on nationalism.



His version of socialism was one that most American: taking from the other nations, and giving to American businesses and individuals, not taking from German citizens and giving to the poor.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:44:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

This beleif that Jews have their hands on everything money related is from the fact the BRILLIANT church decided good christians shouldn't lend money with interest, and hence only Jews could participate in banking... close to a thousand years ago.


actually, this is untrue. Both Christians and Jews in Moorish Spain participated in banking and interest taking, there was no Jewish monopoly on banking, and such a comment is pretty anti-Jewish in of itself. It is saying,"The Jews didn't control the economy although they owned all of the banks... because the Christian church prevented Christians from running them" the last clause does not remove the fact that according to you, Jews DID in fact control banking.

To answer the OP, the nazi party was right-wing authoritarian, compare that to the right-wing libertarian party that we called the Republicans in this country, not the RINOs that make up the political party now.



Also enterprising individuals got past the laws about charging interest by using "penalties"

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:51:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Ring:
anyone know what all what they stood for before they got in power?



What they stood for while in power.

Hitler was one of the most honest political leaders in history. He told people exactly what he stood for and he carried it through.



Untrue. Nazism is National Socialism. They ran on socialist and nationalist idea i nthe early 30's. Later, Hitler shifted away from the socialist views and ran primarily on nationalism.



His version of socialism was one that most American: taking from the other nations, and giving to American businesses and individuals, not taking from German citizens and giving to the poor.



Which I know... Regardless, he dropped most of the socialist thought in the late 30's to gain votes.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:59:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By walrus:
Untrue. Nazism is National Socialism. They ran on socialist and nationalist idea i nthe early 30's. Later, Hitler shifted away from the socialist views and ran primarily on nationalism.



Economics were tangental to his main goals a few of which were:

Avenging the "wrongs" of Versailles
Getting rid of the Jews
Establishing a new order in Europe.

I never said Hitler never told a lie. Merely that when it came to his major goals, he told people exactly what he wanted to do.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:15:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By gunman0:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
nationalism



You left out a word...
National SOCIALISM.
Nazi's and other fascists, have always been, and always will be, the children of the left.



Exactly, the german name was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche. It means the National Socialists German.

Ignore all of those pro-socialism liberals calling Bush is a Nazi, because you'll end up trying to explain to them that they are thus stating they like Bush, because a Nazi is a socialist.



+1,000

Besides the stated obvious nationist movement to a united Germany for Germans, the parties popularity was main economic promising a redistrbution of wealth to a depressed economy. For the better of us all was a central theme however it fell short in many areas but in others it went to excess.

Labor was a paticularly strong supporter of Hitler. He promised them better wages and the Labor Day Holiday they had been after. He delivered on his promise but eliminated the unions. You don't need labor unions when the government is your union. The tearing down of the business leaders never did transpire. Hitler needed the financial support. He did influence business in many ways increasing employment to staggering highs of course the war helped. The war need saw the advent of slave labor creating a class of worker lower than the working class.

Probably the biggest strides were in social agendas such as gun control and euthanasia. Euthanasis began with abortion then quickly led to killing the terminally ill followed by subhumans such as incurrable mental patients and those born with very low IQs. It was small step to genocide.

To ignore the socialist aspect of the NAZI is to totally not grasp what got them to power and kept them in power. Like it not, the German people did well under Hitler at the expense of others.

Tj



He appealed to the poor, labor, the elderly, and anti-immigration, while tolerating large business. Who is left out? Immigrants and old money. He also claimed to be supportive of acceptabe religions. Many of his 25 points can be heard in our country today from various groups. Imagine one person bringing all those interests together. In the US that might include: unemployed, labor unions, AARP, anti-mexican immigration, while accepting the corporate white collar workers and promising the morality of the religious right. Everyone gets a job, retirement, and moral purpose. The expense is free speech, wealth, and a hundred million dissenters.

This is, unfortunately, a predictable outcome for a country that can no longer cope with its ailments.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:23:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
They weren't lefty socialists. Socialism is based on the economic basis, while national socialism works as a means to make the nation as powerful as possible, ASAP.

Lefty Socialist: Good for the masses of people.
Rightwing Socialism (National Socialism): Good for our country to kick anothers ass, I.E., trying to become a jaganught.



That is a distinction that exists in your mind only.

The Nazi economic model was socialist and left-leaning. 'Right-wing' has nothing to do with kicking ass or conquest. Left-wing, on the other hand, accurately describes the Nazi philosophy towards economics and social order.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:53:59 PM EDT
Hey, since when did the Nazis espouse a "Religious Right" pro-life culture of life ethic?

Nazis - like all socialists were pro-abortion, and pro-contraception, sterilization, euthanasia, pro-human experimentation for the sake of the common good, etc.

The Religious Right is for 'prayer' or non-antagonistic bias against Christians in public school.

Hardly a Nazi plank.

The Religious Right is for public recognition of historical FACT, as in the FACT that the founders of most towns and cities were religious and religiously motivated. If the Gays, as Gays found a town I see zero constitutional reasons for them NOT to be allowed to have a town funded plaque or statue stating that this was so.... but somehow turnabout is not fair play with Los Angeles' seal and other symbolic displays.

So FAR FROM GETTING THE STATE TO RAM-ROD OUR BELIEFS DOWN OTHERS' THROATS we just defend decade or century old historical markers from being taken down by ACLU types. How is that being "Nazi"?

Nazis were against homosexuals not for moral reasons and not "just like the religious right" either; as the RR hasn't ANYWHERE claimed gays don't have ANY rights and ought not be treated fairly as citizens. We merely hold that you can't give a group SPECIAL RIGHTS that trump our freedom of association rights because of their sexual proclivities. That's hardly a question of us seeking them out for liquidation. But then, for some Leftists the mere fact that you beg to differ with them is taken as "assault".

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:17:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
They weren't lefty socialists. Socialism is based on the economic basis, while national socialism works as a means to make the nation as powerful as possible, ASAP.

Lefty Socialist: Good for the masses of people.
Rightwing Socialism (National Socialism): Good for our country to kick anothers ass, I.E., trying to become a jaganught.



That is a distinction that exists in your mind only.

The Nazi economic model was socialist and left-leaning. 'Right-wing' has nothing to do with kicking ass or conquest. Left-wing, on the other hand, accurately describes the Nazi philosophy towards economics and social order.



No I would say N1Rampage is closer to the truth. There was a difference between National Socialists and the Socialists of the left and communism....look at Russia vs. Germany...

Russia, the "Workers Paradise" where in theory the workers owned it all, redistribution of wealth was to be complete, an equal share for everyone (of course this doesn't work out in reality, the rulers always seem to live better than everyone else....but thats another discussion). Industries and farms were organized into "collectives" everything was done "for the people" All industry, and business was nationalized. Bolshevism was interested in making all peoples bolshevik.

Germany, under the NSDAP....the first thing to be busted was the trade unions, no more "socialist" re communist workers groups. You worked for the company, not the other way around. Everyone was expected to work or contribute one way or another for the greater good of the COUNTRY (Reich), not the people. Banks were nationalized, but industry and business were not. The Gov did ensure that workers were treated better, but they didn't set wages, benefits, etc.
Everything was always for the greater good of the community, on up to the country....not "for the people". If the country needed something, it was cool to get it from some country that had it...afterall it was for the good of the country. The only ones invited to the party were Germans and those of German blood. It was an extreme nationalistic movement, it didn't want to embrace the world.

Rich industrialists became richer and more powerful (ie Krupp, etc), exactly the opposite of what happened with communism.

And saying that Hitler was the fomenter of all the hatred of Jews is very wrong. Anti-semitism was extremely widespread throughout the world. America too....take a real look at how rampant anti-semitism was in the US in the 20's and 30's.

Hitler just happened to be one person who pushed it further. (To be truthfull, Stalin was no friend to the jews, he killed plenty himself, but for some reason he gets a pass....)

Those who think the NSDAP were left leaning socialists, based on the word "socialist" in their name are mistaken. To be honest economically the Germany of the 30's runs a lot more like the economy of the US now (according to leftists, who say Bush and Cheney are master puppeteers pulling the strings of the world to effect their pet industries or businesses, and the Repubs are in bed with big business) than any true left socialist nation.....

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:33:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
No I would say N1Rampage is closer to the truth. There was a difference between National Socialists and the Socialists of the left and communism....look at Russia vs. Germany...



You wrote a lot of stuff, but none of it relevant to my point: Nazi Germany was a leftist socialist state. Sure, the Soviet Union was also technically socialist (rather than communist), but they were simply farther down the scale than Germany.

Since you seemed to miss it the first time around, here are the 25 Point of the Nazi Party.



Those who think the NSDAP were left leaning socialists, based on the word "socialist" in their name are mistaken.



Incorrect. Not only do they descibe themselves as socialists, their party platform was socialist, and their actions in regards to their economy and social order were socialist.

Generally, the folks that deny that the Nazis were socialists are socialists themselves, who do not want to be associated with the Nazis. Understandable, but that doesn't make them right.



To be honest economically the Germany of the 30's runs a lot more like the economy of the US now...



You either do not understand how the Nazi economy was organized, or you do not understand how the modern American economy operates, or both. Either way, you are incorrect.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:43:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:45:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:47:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
nationalism



well that and socialism. They were militant leftists.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:47:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
No I would say N1Rampage is closer to the truth. There was a difference between National Socialists and the Socialists of the left and communism....look at Russia vs. Germany...



You wrote a lot of stuff, but none of it relevant to my point: Nazi Germany was a leftist socialist state. Sure, the Soviet Union was also technically socialist (rather than communist), but they were simply farther down the scale than Germany.

Since you seemed to miss it the first time around, here are the 25 Point of the Nazi Party.

No I didn't miss it...but i question its relevance to what the NSDAP evolved into by 1933 to the end of the war...what time period were these points taken from. The NSDAP started out more along the lines of traditional socialism than it ended up



Those who think the NSDAP were left leaning socialists, based on the word "socialist" in their name are mistaken.



Incorrect. Not only do they descibe themselves as socialists, their party platform was socialist, and their actions in regards to their economy and social order were socialist. I disagree...the social order in Germany in the 30's was far different than the social order of the bolsheviks in Russia in the 30's...plus Germany still had its traditional "Bluebloods" and their equivalent to the Peerage (Dukes, and Counts, etc) while they were long since purged by Bolsheviks

Generally, the folks that deny that the Nazis were socialists are socialists themselves, who do not want to be associated with the Nazis. Understandable, but that doesn't make them right.



To be honest economically the Germany of the 30's runs a lot more like the economy of the US now...



You either do not understand how the Nazi economy was organized, or you do not understand how the modern American economy operates, or both. Either way, you are incorrect.



Well what I was driving at, is that if you look how the modern left describes our economy...the gov in bed with big business, the leaders (Bush and Cheney) in cahoots with major busines sectors....the industrialists currying favor and political clout by supporting gov leaders, etc....is a lot like how the economy ran in Germany.

Hitelr needed the support of big business in Germany. Big business in Germany was heavy industrial and arms...by flouting the Versailles treaty and re-arming at an amazing pace, Hitler allowed the big industry of Germany to swell to tremendous proportions. The upper echelon of this business appreciated it, and pumped money and support to the NSDAP (Read "The Arms of Krupp" it is an excellent description of how big business worked in Germany in the 30's).

In any case, I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement that the NSDAP was a left leaning party, in my book, they were a far right leaning party...

I'll look forward to continued discussion tomorrow perhaps, but for now, I'm outtie....
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:51:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 1:59:22 PM EDT by K2QB3]
"Fascism would be more accurately called corporatism" Mussolini.

Fascism n.1 "Any system of government in which property is privately owned, but all industry and labor are regulated by a strong national government, while opposition is suppressed." world book dictionary.

You guys are argueing around the point, largely I think because the left/right paradigm is insufficient to describe the full spectrum of political thought, and of course because the Nazis are an emotionaly-charged and universally despised subject.

Fascism is a form of socialism, but it is a right-wing form of socialism.

Just like the GOP espouse a left-wing form of capitalism economically speaking.

Calling the GOP Nazis is stupid, but calling them fascists is far more accurate than you might think. It's really not any more outrageous than calling the Dems socialists, it's just a matter of degree.

Free market capitalism requires a free market for capital. Fascism was quite popular in the US prior to its being associated with Nazism, and still is today, it's just that it isn't called fascism anymore because of its connotation.

The fact that Christendom forbid usury and the Jewish faith did not resulted in a disproportionate number of wealthy and powerful jews in banking, contributed to antisemitism in Europe to a huge degree, and helps explain the popular support for Hitlers rants against "Organised Jewry", particularly following on the heels of the Weimar hyperinflation.

Inflation and usury are two sides of the same coin. Whenever you have a fiat currency utilizing interest-bearing debt instruments as a means of exchange inflation is inevitable, and so is the eventual failure of the system but that's another discussion.

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:55:02 PM EDT
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