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Posted: 1/24/2006 5:14:04 PM EDT
Seriously, why is it that I should buy these. by the looks of them a 7 year old could make one and they want in upwards of $150-$200 for a simple one to span my garage. Lets see, 20 of them @ $200 a piece is $4000. Are you kidding me, $4k for $300 worth of 2'x'4s and some glue. I could cut my garage price by a 1/3 or more by making these things.

What is it I am missing, why can't I just set up a jig and build them? Why is it that every webisite I visit pretends that they are a freaking wonder of the world and you have to have a Dr. in physics just to comprehend them?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:20:29 PM EDT
do you have the ability to make hamburgers from ground beef?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:21:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
do you have the ability to make hamburgers from ground beef?



Yes. Mush it togeather then throw it on the grill.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:23:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
Seriously, why is it that I should buy these. by the looks of them a 7 year old could make one and they want in upwards of $150-$200 for a simple one to span my garage. Lets see, 20 of them @ $200 a piece is $4000. Are you kidding me, $4k for $300 worth of 2'x'4s and some glue. I could cut my garage price by a 1/3 or more by making these things.

What is it I am missing, why can't I just set up a jig and build them? Why is it that every webisite I visit pretends that they are a freaking wonder of the world and you have to have a Dr. in physics just to comprehend them?




if you don't want to buy trusses just stick frame it
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:23:09 PM EDT
Well, buy one, and a pile of lumber, and get busy.

After the 15th, one, let us know if it was worth it.

BTW, pay attention to the triangles and make the copies exactly like the original, or you lose some stiffness.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:25:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By home_with_kids:
Well, buy one, and a pile of lumber, and get busy.

After the 15th, one, let us know if it was worth it.

BTW, pay attention to the triangles and make the copies exactly like the original, or you lose some stiffness.



Was that supposed to be a negatiive comment? Just curious.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:25:40 PM EDT
Think about the Pound psi of your roofing material. If the professionals don't build their own, then there must be a reason.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:25:46 PM EDT
BUILDING YOUR OWN ROOF TRUSSES:


http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/resmgmt/publist/Leaflets/BldgEng/305-32.pdf

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:26:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:26:42 PM EDT
How big are they??

last spring I was figuring out a garage and for 20' +1ft overhang @ 4/12 pitch were about $50 each delivered
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:26:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By home_with_kids:
Well, buy one, and a pile of lumber, and get busy.

After the 15th, one, let us know if it was worth it.

BTW, pay attention to the triangles and make the copies exactly like the original, or you lose some stiffness.




and don't forget the camber on the bottom chord and the machine rated lumber and the engineering degree.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:27:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wildearp:
Think about the Pound psi of your roofing material. If the professionals don't build their own, then there must be a reason.



My dad was a carpenter for quite some time. he said to build them myself. I just got off the phone with him.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:27:37 PM EDT
I gotta say, I build things for a living and I cannot make a truss for less than I can buy one premade.

Plus...

Go to your lumber yard and ask for some thirty foot long two by fours. They ain't got 'em.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:29:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob243:
How big are they??

last spring I was figuring out a garage and for 20' +1ft overhang @ 4/12 pitch were about $50 each delivered



26' w/ 2' overhang. haven't 100% decided on the pitch. Where did you buy yours? A chain store or elsewhere?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:29:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR-10:


Go to your lumber yard and ask for some thirty foot long two by fours. They ain't got 'em.



Trying to get a non-warped 8 ft 2X4 is a challenge nowadays.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:30:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob243:
How big are they??

last spring I was figuring out a garage and for 20' +1ft overhang @ 4/12 pitch were about $50 each delivered




+1

If it's just a simple span with a 2x4 bottom chord, they should be fairly reasonable.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:30:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR-10:
I gotta say, I build things for a living and I cannot make a truss for less than I can buy one premade.

Plus...

Go to your lumber yard and ask for some thirty foot long two by fours. They ain't got 'em.



I guess I don't understand where all the cost is? Granted a long straight 2x4 cost money, but do they really cost that much?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:32:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By AR-10:
I gotta say, I build things for a living and I cannot make a truss for less than I can buy one premade.

Plus...

Go to your lumber yard and ask for some thirty foot long two by fours. They ain't got 'em.



I guess I don't understand where all the cost is? Granted a long straight 2x4 cost money, but do they really cost that much?



most likely delivery and storage costs.

Actual material and labor wouldn't be much, but transporting those things and having a place to store them until sold is probably a huge part of the cost.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:32:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By Bob243:
How big are they??

last spring I was figuring out a garage and for 20' +1ft overhang @ 4/12 pitch were about $50 each delivered



26' w/ 2' overhang. haven't 100% decided on the pitch. Where did you buy yours? A chain store or elsewhere?



Local store, Economy Lumber in Ashley PA

I should call and see what they are now.. I know stuff went up, but not sure how much.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:33:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 5:35:21 PM EDT by ar-wrench]
I built my own trusses. 24' span (plus 2' overhang each end). Materials were $55 per truss. Plans built, mostly 2X6 with 2X4 bracing. Plywood gussets nailed and glued on both sides of each joint.

The plans I had gave instructions on building the jig. And exact dimensions on each component part.

My wife built half the trusses herself.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:34:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By AR-10:
I gotta say, I build things for a living and I cannot make a truss for less than I can buy one premade.

Plus...

Go to your lumber yard and ask for some thirty foot long two by fours. They ain't got 'em.



I guess I don't understand where all the cost is? Granted a long straight 2x4 cost money, but do they really cost that much?



most likely delivery and storage costs.

Actual material and labor wouldn't be much, but transporting those things and having a place to store them until sold is probably a huge part of the cost.



This is my point, if i buy the raw material and I build them on site, how would I not come out ahead.

I am not disagreeing with anyone, but I just don't get it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:35:46 PM EDT
Buy some 2x10s and go cut some rafters! I am sure you can find a website that will explain to you the rpocess of cutting a rafter. Then you will have a nice attic for storage.

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:36:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By AR-10:
I gotta say, I build things for a living and I cannot make a truss for less than I can buy one premade.

Plus...

Go to your lumber yard and ask for some thirty foot long two by fours. They ain't got 'em.



I guess I don't understand where all the cost is? Granted a long straight 2x4 cost money, but do they really cost that much?



most likely delivery and storage costs.

Actual material and labor wouldn't be much, but transporting those things and having a place to store them until sold is probably a huge part of the cost.



This is my point, if i buy the raw material and I build them on site, how would I not come out ahead.

I am not disagreeing with anyone, but I just don't get it.



only if you screw it up.

Pre-built have the benefit of convenience and time savings. If you have the time, can make a jig if you have a bunch to build, and triple check your work, you should be good to go.

People built stick frame houses on site for a long time before parts came pre-fabbed from the factory.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:37:18 PM EDT
enigma2y0u said:
Was that supposed to be a negatiive comment? Just curious.



Not really. I often find that when I try to build something that is easy to buy ready made, I often wish I had just shelled out the cash because the work turns out to be a PITA. I have never built roof trusses, but I notice that it seems everyone buys them, not builds them.

I built a tank-like picnic table from scratch several years ago, very sturdy, but at the end I wish I had bought and assembled a kit and spent the balance of the weekend at the range.

But, people vary in cash on hand, mechanical ability, and free time availability. If you enjoy the work, then there is no reason in the world to buy them.

Except, as others note, finding good lumber at the home supply store....
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:41:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By home_with_kids:
enigma2y0u said:
Was that supposed to be a negatiive comment? Just curious.



Not really. I often find that when I try to build something that is easy to buy ready made, I often wish I had just shelled out the cash because the work turns out to be a PITA. I have never built roof trusses, but I notice that it seems everyone buys them, not builds them.

I built a tank-like picnic table from scratch several years ago, very sturdy, but at the end I wish I had bought and assembled a kit and spent the balance of the weekend at the range.

But, people vary in cash on hand, mechanical ability, and free time availability. If you enjoy the work, then there is no reason in the world to buy them.

Except, as others note, finding good lumber at the home supply store....



Can't tell you how many times I spent more time at lowes or homedepot trying to find 20 or 30 good boards to do a project than it actually took to build the project.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:41:16 PM EDT
I made the trusses for my 10' X 10' shed. Not too hard, but I don't think I'd want to do it for something bigger though.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:43:34 PM EDT
If you want any sort of grade 1 lumber you aint gonna find it at Home Depot or Lowes that is for sure. All the big stores have is grade 2 stuff. Thats why finding enough straight boards is hard as hell.

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:45:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By AR-10:
I gotta say, I build things for a living and I cannot make a truss for less than I can buy one premade.

Plus...

Go to your lumber yard and ask for some thirty foot long two by fours. They ain't got 'em.



I guess I don't understand where all the cost is? Granted a long straight 2x4 cost money, but do they really cost that much?



The size truss you are looking at should be under a hundred dollars.

If I build it, the material will run around fifty bucks per truss.Then I haul enough material for twenty of them to the shop. Cull out the bad boards and return half of them, eat the rest, and get enough material to make the last ten trusses. Build a half assed jig to speed things up, which takes almost as much time as I save. I have an easy hour plus into each truss. At my labor rate, I am right there five dollars over what I could buy pre-built trusses for.

I forget to charge for the fastners and I lose out on the ten percent kickback I get from the lumber yard every month.

That's why I don't build my own.

You, you have other reasons. Unless you have some carpentry skills and a big shop, you are sort of like that home-taught gunsmith with his first new dremel tool.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:45:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HighlandMac:
If you want any sort of grade 1 lumber you aint gonna find it at Home Depot or Lowes that is for sure. All the big stores have is grade 2 stuff. Thats why finding enough straight boards is hard as hell.





Also they store indoors, coming from a period of outdoor storage. When the lumber comes in, it dries out too fast and warps from the sudden change.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:46:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 5:47:21 PM EDT by HighlandMac]
double tap

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:48:40 PM EDT
Keep in mind your trusses still need to get on the roof. IMO, you'd have the roof stick framed by the time you got the trusses built. And rafters are much easier to drag up than 26' trusses. 2x8 SPF will span your runs just fine.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:05:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR-10:


The size truss you are looking at should be under a hundred dollars.

....., you are sort of like that home-taught gunsmith with his first new dremel tool.



If they are around $75 I would definatly buy them, but over $100 I think is pretty sad.

On a side note I don't understand comments like the second one. I can't think of one single thing in the history of this world that was thought out and worked right the first time.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:12:16 PM EDT
I despise trusses - but then again, I'm a firefighter.

Seriously, though, that seems awfully high each.

I'd stick build - trusses require cranes.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:14:54 PM EDT
First of you wont get a 30 ft piece of wood in the ones you buy. They will be gusseted together. About 60 bucks apiece would be right. Buy from a lumber yard who builds them. You cannot hardly build one for that unless you like working for 2.00 an hour.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:23:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:40:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Slash:
Shop around, you should be able to buy them cheaper. If not, just use rafters - You don't HAVE to use trusses. Rafters are lighter, easier to handle, infinitely more simple to cut, and easier to build with.

I do not recommend trying to make your own trusses. Would you go to the hardware store, buy a piece of plumbing pipe and make your own gun barrel?




huh? yes if i had the right equipment I would try to make a gun barrel. For some reason I don't think the guy who makes the gun barrels at the factory is a fucking genius.

Sometimes you guys stun me. your lives must be very interesting never attemping anything.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:42:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By Slash:
Shop around, you should be able to buy them cheaper. If not, just use rafters - You don't HAVE to use trusses. Rafters are lighter, easier to handle, infinitely more simple to cut, and easier to build with.

I do not recommend trying to make your own trusses. Would you go to the hardware store, buy a piece of plumbing pipe and make your own gun barrel?




huh? yes if i had the right equipment I would try to make a gun barrel. For some reason I don't think the guy who makes the gun barrels at the factory is a fucking genius.

Sometimes you guys stun me. your lives must be very interesting never attemping anything.



+1 eventually when I can afford a lathe and a Bridgport, I Intend to make alot of my own stuff
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:12:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By beagler76:

Originally Posted By home_with_kids:
Well, buy one, and a pile of lumber, and get busy.

After the 15th, one, let us know if it was worth it.

BTW, pay attention to the triangles and make the copies exactly like the original, or you lose some stiffness.




and don't forget the camber on the bottom chord and the machine rated lumber and the engineering degree.




The use of Machine Stress Rated (MSR) lumber in manufactured trusses means that the component members are individually tested for stiffness which correlates to the breaking strength. They know how stiff the final product will be and what it will support for snow load. Each truss will behave just like its neighbor and the roof will remain flat and true. The trusses can be lighter weight than what you would have to build using lumber that is only visually graded. You don't find this lumber at your lumber yard, unless they order it in for you. It brings a premium price for a good reason, and that is part of what you pay for in a manufactured truss.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:18:40 PM EDT
The same reason that smokers don't roll their own cigarretts. Conveinence. If you have the time, by all means "roll your own', trusses. Add some plywood gussetts while your at it. Yours will probably have a better quality and dimensional consistancey than some illiterate border crosser anyway.

Use hurricane clips to tie them to the top plate.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:21:01 PM EDT
Same dilemma here... to build or buy.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:22:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By AR-10:
I gotta say, I build things for a living and I cannot make a truss for less than I can buy one premade.

Plus...

Go to your lumber yard and ask for some thirty foot long two by fours. They ain't got 'em.



I guess I don't understand where all the cost is? Granted a long straight 2x4 cost money, but do they really cost that much?



jigs, labor, materials, pesky things like insurance and rent on the plant.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:24:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:

Originally Posted By Slash:
Shop around, you should be able to buy them cheaper. If not, just use rafters - You don't HAVE to use trusses. Rafters are lighter, easier to handle, infinitely more simple to cut, and easier to build with.

I do not recommend trying to make your own trusses. Would you go to the hardware store, buy a piece of plumbing pipe and make your own gun barrel?




huh? yes if i had the right equipment I would try to make a gun barrel. For some reason I don't think the guy who makes the gun barrels at the factory is a fucking genius.

Sometimes you guys stun me. your lives must be very interesting never attemping anything.




You should just build them yourself, then. I personally would have better things to do than to spend my time dicking around with "homemade" trusses. Have fun.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:25:49 PM EDT
Why should you buy trusses? You don't want your roof to get hernias do yah?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:06:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 9:08:51 PM EDT by Slash]
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:35:50 PM EDT
Roof trusses should be the cheapest alternative and I would buy them only from the manufacturer. Find out who actually makes them in your area, not who sells them. Tell them you are a builder and if they are really up to speed they will want at least a drawing to engineer them for your proposed use, size, roofing material, loading, etc.

Most roof trusses are not made with specially graded lumber around here and most of the cheap homes are built with trusses. Believe me, if those guys could shave a dollar off of the entire house they would do it in a heartbeat. Trusses around here are built with mostly 2x4's and gang nails in some plant staffed by $6 an hour workers, delivered (meaning dumped in the yard) and hand set up to the roof one at a time.

If you go with rafters and a ridge beam, the lumber will cost a lot more as you won't be able to use 2x4's for your rafters and ceiling joists and you may be using 2x10's and 2x8's. You will get an attic though and that may be worth more than saving money on the roof structure. If you do go with trusses be sure to tell them that you want to store stuff in the attic, or they will be designed to only carry the load of the ceiling for your building and they will make no allowance for storing ammo in your attic.

There are also engineered lumber systems that are made with compressed wood and glue that are becoming more popular. Wooden "I" joists, or Trus joists have also become popular because they are made from smaller trees that are chipped up and glued into the desired shape. Some of these are much stronger than natural wood.

Here is Weyerhaeuser's product site for engineered lumber: www.trusjoist.com/
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:02:16 PM EDT
Think Rafters.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:13:58 PM EDT

Wooden "I" joists...Some of these are much stronger than natural wood.

Until the glue fails. Have you ever seen wood glue that worked worth a damn? I know I haven't. I've seen those crap products used in four houses including my great-niece's. Huber made the ones used above her garage. She's saving money now to replace them after two of them fell on her car and put huge dents in the hood and busted the windshield. A coworker has those type of joists under the floor of his new house. I don't know who makes them, but they have the name "Silent Floor" on them. He's selling the house because the cost of repair is going to be more than he can borrow against the house with the equity he has so he can't afford to salvage the house. Imagine how expensive it would be to replace the floor joists in an entire house.z
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:23:25 PM EDT
The only reason I could think of is that you don't know how to cut a roof ?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:17:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 4:21:15 AM EDT by enigma2y0u]
Ok, talk to me about rafters. Do I save a buncch of money there? Are they strong in tornado country? I am willing to do either, but I don't want to worry about strength.

ETA: the thing with rafters is that the roof line is not parallel to the door. How do I support a beam over a door?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:22:26 AM EDT
Trusses will generally be more expensive on the material end and less expensive on the install labor.

Stick framing = more expensive labor and less expensive material.

There are times and places for trusses IMO but not as widely as people use them. I wouldn't try to make your own as they are engineered for specific laods and bearing points. If you're talking about just a plain gable roof for your garage just cut a patteren to use for the rest of the joists. Pretty easy actually.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:04:26 PM EDT
Trusses should be cheaper than a cut roof, but if you are dead set on doing it yourself, definitely cut the ridge rafters and joists instead for making trusses.

Also remember if you use trusses, you will not be able have any attic storage, as most trusses are not rated for the load.
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