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Posted: 1/23/2006 11:32:36 AM EDT
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."


1932 - "BLOODY HARLAN" - it was war, from a UMWA magazine i learned that the goverment dropped BOMBS, yes bombs from an airplane to break up a strike in west virginia...



l970 - members of the Ohio National Guard fired into a crowd of Kent State University demonstrators, killing four and wounding nine Kent State students.



1992 - confrontation between federal agents and the Randy Weaver family in Ruby Ridge, Idaho.



1993 - agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms surrounded a compound outside Waco, Texas, lobbing tear gas and bulldozing into the building.



1999 - a 6 year old Cuban boy underwent a terrifying "rescue" culminating in stormtrooper style raid on the south Florida home he was staying at.


I am certain there are hundreds more examples, such as a law abiding gun owner being terrorized over the possession of so-called assault weapons, only to later be cleared, of people ordering legal publications ranging from Penthouse to The Anarchist's Cookbook, and many more.

The questions to be asked....

When will it happen again?

Who will be the next victim?

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:34:10 AM EDT
you're next! sorry man, better luck next life
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:36:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."


l970 - members of the Ohio National Guard fired into a crowd of Kent State University demonstrators, killing four and wounding nine Kent State students.



BTW it was self defense.



1999 - a 6 year old Cuban boy underwent a terrifying "rescue" culminating in stormtrooper style raid on the south Florida home he was staying at.



FYI he wasn't a citizen.

Shok
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:37:28 AM EDT
This will be good.....so TAG
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:44:30 AM EDT
Well, in reality EVERYTHING that the government does is with the ultimate underlying threat of violence if you don't comply.

That violence may be a disruption of your life via fines, confiscation of assets, imprisonment or death at the point of a gun in the hands of someone under the protection of government authority. Resist and if the stakes are high enough the government will escalate their response to the "unmutual" citizen.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:45:10 AM EDT
You forgot the Bonus Marchers

And let's not forget the late unpleasantness vis a vie the whole North-South thing...

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:46:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."


l970 - members of the Ohio National Guard fired into a crowd of Kent State University demonstrators, killing four and wounding nine Kent State students.



BTW it was self defense.



1999 - a 6 year old Cuban boy underwent a terrifying "rescue" culminating in stormtrooper style raid on the south Florida home he was staying at.



FYI he wasn't a citizen.

Shok



The other people in the house that had guns pointed at them and were likely thrown around a bit were citizens though weren't they?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:47:15 AM EDT
True, but how often have we read or heard a pro-RKBA person spout the "from my cold, dead hands" line? Truth is, the .gov can raid any home or business they decide to target. With the advent of the Patriot Act, there are even more avenues the .gov can use, if they wanted to do so, to exact their so-called "pound of flesh".
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:50:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."

Who the fuck are you quoting?

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:52:38 AM EDT
How about the internment of Japanese Americans and a whole bunch of other Americans during WWII?

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:56:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."

Who the fuck are you quoting?

Every 'tard that I've ever heard such a statement from (including a Sheriff, and a couple of politicians).
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:57:42 AM EDT
Ludlow
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:58:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
True, but how often have we read or heard a pro-RKBA person spout the "from my cold, dead hands" line? Truth is, the .gov can raid any home or business they decide to target. With the advent of the Patriot Act, there are even more avenues the .gov can use, if they wanted to do so, to exact their so-called "pound of flesh".




Sad but true. You say it isn't legal. 'They' say "We will make it legal!"

Freedom. What a dream.

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:00:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."

Who the fuck are you quoting?

Every 'tard that I've ever heard such a statement from (including a Sheriff, and a couple of politicians).


Oh. I see.

Then you mean THIS guy -

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:02:55 PM EDT
Pick up "Everything you know is wrong" by Disinformation. There is one poignant example in there of the .gov attacking people.

Also it has some interesting facts on Oklahoma City and other sundry items. The publisher seems very Libertarian in their ideology.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:04:51 PM EDT
better tag this one
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:07:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."

Who the fuck are you quoting?




himself
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:27:23 PM EDT
Tin foil hat alittle tight today?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:27:39 PM EDT
This could be interesting.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:36:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 12:37:04 PM EDT by ar15bubba]
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..." ....OK....STARTING.... NOW!
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:37:21 PM EDT
As bad as most those examples are the one that disturbs me most is the gun grabbing and forced evacuation of NOLA law abiding citizens. Proof that the military and police wont protect out freedom and can fall back on "Was just following orders"
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:39:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:42:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
Well, I have no problem with the government retaking Elian for his father. Above and beyond all else in this world, the right of a Parent to raise his son is paramount. It was about the only good thing Reno and company did during their tenure.



You need to check out the news on this that happened after he was returned. His father didnt raise the boy, the communist state of Cuba raised and brainwashed him into their little stage prop for uncle Fidel.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:43:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 12:44:15 PM EDT by RockHard13F]

Originally Posted By Wraithtouch:
As bad as most those examples are the one that disturbs me most is the gun grabbing and forced evacuation of NOLA law abiding citizens. Proof that the military and police wont protect out freedom and can fall back on "Was just following orders"



Your example and Waco. Ruby Ridge was a little close to home, but not on such a scale as to really be compared to the others.

-Ben
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:50:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:50:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 12:51:40 PM EDT by Swindle1984]
In 1924, a grateful Congress voted to give a bonus to World War I veterans - $1.25 for each day served overseas, $1.00 for each day served in the States. The catch was that payment would not be made until 1945. However, by 1932 the nation had slipped into the dark days of the Depression and the unemployed veterans wanted their money immediately.

In May of that year, some 15,000 veterans, many unemployed and destitute, descended on Washington, D.C. to demand immediate payment of their bonus. They proclaimed themselves the Bonus Expeditionary Force but the public dubbed them the "Bonus Army." Raising ramshackle camps at various places around the city, they waited.

The veterans made their largest camp at Anacostia Flats across the river from the Capitol. Approximately 10,000 veterans, women and children lived in the shelters built from materials dragged out of a junk pile nearby - old lumber, packing boxes and scrap tin covered with roofs of thatched straw.

Discipline in the camp was good, despite the fears of many city residents who spread unfounded "Red Scare" rumors. Streets were laid out, latrines dug, and formations held daily. Newcomers were required to register and prove they were bonafide veterans who had been honorably discharged. Their leader, Walter Waters, stated, "We're here for the duration and we're not going to starve. We're going to keep ourselves a simon-pure veteran's organization. If the Bonus is paid it will relieve to a large extent the deplorable economic condition."

June 17 was described by a local newspaper as "the tensest day in the capital since the war." The Senate was voting on the bill already passed by the House to immediately give the vets their bonus money. By dusk, 10,000 marchers crowded the Capitol grounds expectantly awaiting the outcome. Walter Waters, leader of the Bonus Expeditionary Force, appeared with bad news. The Senate had defeated the bill by a vote of 62 to 18. The crowd reacted with stunned silence. "Sing America and go back to your billets" he commanded, and they did. A silent "Death March" began in front of the Capitol and lasted until July 17, when Congress adjourned.

A month later, on July 28, Attorney General Mitchell ordered the evacuation of the veterans from all government property, Entrusted with the job, the Washington police met with resistance, shots were fired and two marchers killed. Learning of the shooting at lunch, President Hoover ordered the army to clear out the veterans. Infantry and cavalry supported by six tanks were dispatched with Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur in command. Major Dwight D. Eisenhower served as his liaison with Washington police and Major George Patton led the cavalry.

By 4:45 P.M. the troops were massed on Pennsylvania Ave. below the Capitol. Thousands of Civil Service employees spilled out of work and lined the streets to watch. The veterans, assuming the military display was in their honor, cheered. Suddenly Patton's troopers turned and charged. "Shame, Shame" the spectators cried. Soldiers with fixed bayonets followed, hurling tear gas into the crowd.

By nightfall the BEF had retreated across the Anacostia River where Hoover ordered MacArthur to stop. Ignoring the command, the general led his infantry to the main camp. By early morning the 10,000 inhabitants were routed and the camp in flames. Two babies died and nearby hospitals overwhelmed with casualties. Eisenhower later wrote, "the whole scene was pitiful. The veterans were ragged, ill-fed, and felt themselves badly abused. To suddenly see the whole encampment going up in flames just added to the pity."

References:
Bartlett, John Henry, The Bonus March and the New Deal (1937); Daniels, Roger, The Bonus March; an Episode of the Great Depression (1971)



Also: ATF Abuse
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:54:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
Well, I have no problem with the government retaking Elian for his father. Above and beyond all else in this world, the right of a Parent to raise his son is paramount. It was about the only good thing Reno and company did during their tenure.



Yeah, except Elian's father is now FIDEL F-ING CASTRO!

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:56:20 PM EDT



if attacking me would benefit them in any way, they would this afternoon.


Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:57:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Well, in reality EVERYTHING that the government does is with the ultimate underlying threat of violence if you don't comply.



This needs to be stated over and over and over again.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:57:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:58:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
In 1924, a grateful Congress voted to give a bonus to World War I veterans - $1.25 for each day served overseas, $1.00 for each day served in the States. The catch was that payment would not be made until 1945. However, by 1932 the nation had slipped into the dark days of the Depression and the unemployed veterans wanted their money immediately.

In May of that year, some 15,000 veterans, many unemployed and destitute, descended on Washington, D.C. to demand immediate payment of their bonus. They proclaimed themselves the Bonus Expeditionary Force but the public dubbed them the "Bonus Army." Raising ramshackle camps at various places around the city, they waited.

The veterans made their largest camp at Anacostia Flats across the river from the Capitol. Approximately 10,000 veterans, women and children lived in the shelters built from materials dragged out of a junk pile nearby - old lumber, packing boxes and scrap tin covered with roofs of thatched straw.

Discipline in the camp was good, despite the fears of many city residents who spread unfounded "Red Scare" rumors. Streets were laid out, latrines dug, and formations held daily. Newcomers were required to register and prove they were bonafide veterans who had been honorably discharged. Their leader, Walter Waters, stated, "We're here for the duration and we're not going to starve. We're going to keep ourselves a simon-pure veteran's organization. If the Bonus is paid it will relieve to a large extent the deplorable economic condition."

June 17 was described by a local newspaper as "the tensest day in the capital since the war." The Senate was voting on the bill already passed by the House to immediately give the vets their bonus money. By dusk, 10,000 marchers crowded the Capitol grounds expectantly awaiting the outcome. Walter Waters, leader of the Bonus Expeditionary Force, appeared with bad news. The Senate had defeated the bill by a vote of 62 to 18. The crowd reacted with stunned silence. "Sing America and go back to your billets" he commanded, and they did. A silent "Death March" began in front of the Capitol and lasted until July 17, when Congress adjourned.

A month later, on July 28, Attorney General Mitchell ordered the evacuation of the veterans from all government property, Entrusted with the job, the Washington police met with resistance, shots were fired and two marchers killed. Learning of the shooting at lunch, President Hoover ordered the army to clear out the veterans. Infantry and cavalry supported by six tanks were dispatched with Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur in command. Major Dwight D. Eisenhower served as his liaison with Washington police and Major George Patton led the cavalry.

By 4:45 P.M. the troops were massed on Pennsylvania Ave. below the Capitol. Thousands of Civil Service employees spilled out of work and lined the streets to watch. The veterans, assuming the military display was in their honor, cheered. Suddenly Patton's troopers turned and charged. "Shame, Shame" the spectators cried. Soldiers with fixed bayonets followed, hurling tear gas into the crowd.

By nightfall the BEF had retreated across the Anacostia River where Hoover ordered MacArthur to stop. Ignoring the command, the general led his infantry to the main camp. By early morning the 10,000 inhabitants were routed and the camp in flames. Two babies died and nearby hospitals overwhelmed with casualties. Eisenhower later wrote, "the whole scene was pitiful. The veterans were ragged, ill-fed, and felt themselves badly abused. To suddenly see the whole encampment going up in flames just added to the pity."

References:
Bartlett, John Henry, The Bonus March and the New Deal (1937); Daniels, Roger, The Bonus March; an Episode of the Great Depression (1971)



Also: ATF Abuse



Powerfull Stuff.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:22:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
And let's not forget the late unpleasantness vis a vie the whole North-South thing...



You mean the cold weather from Canada?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:22:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."


l970 - members of the Ohio National Guard fired into a crowd of Kent State University demonstrators, killing four and wounding nine Kent State students.



BTW it was self defense.



1999 - a 6 year old Cuban boy underwent a terrifying "rescue" culminating in stormtrooper style raid on the south Florida home he was staying at.



FYI he wasn't a citizen.

Shok



Source for this one?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:34:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."

Who the fuck are you quoting?

Every 'tard that I've ever heard such a statement from (including a Sheriff, and a couple of politicians).


Oh. I see.

Then you mean THIS guy -

members.cox.net/_themacallan/strawman.jpg



ZOOMED 'em.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:34:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:35:16 PM EDT
Our government would never attack a citizen of Mexico maybe.


-K
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:19:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
"...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..."


l970 - members of the Ohio National Guard fired into a crowd of Kent State University demonstrators, killing four and wounding nine Kent State students.



BTW it was self defense.



Shok



I hope you were kidding, by no means was it self defense. I was a student at Kent state for a while and became very interested in the may 4 shooting and wanted to learn everything about it. I have stood where the national guard stood. I have also stood where the 4 people that were killed were. I don't think one of them was closer than 100 yrds and 2 of them were closer to 200 yrds. One of the girls killed was shot 3 times in the back. With the 11 or 12 people firing in to a large crowd what is the chances of the same person being shot 3 times before falling. What they don't tell you is that girl got into a confrontation with the guard the day before. Some people were bayonetted that night. The national guard made a big mistake and backed themselves into a position that they couldn't retreat from. I don't see how armed solders would need to defend themselves with deadly force against a group of unarmed college students over a football field away.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:28:48 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:45:47 PM EDT



Kent State makes me think of the song "Four Dead in Ohio"

HOW the FUCK was that self defense?

Were the hippies armed?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:53:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
True, but how often have we read or heard a pro-RKBA person spout the "from my cold, dead hands" line? Truth is, the .gov can raid any home or business they decide to target. With the advent of the Patriot Act, there are even more avenues the .gov can use, if they wanted to do so, to exact their so-called "pound of flesh".



That can work a couple of ways, just picking your time and field.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:56:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:

l970 - members of the Ohio National Guard fired into a crowd of Kent State University demonstrators, killing four and wounding nine Kent State students.




4-0 !!! They had it comin'.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:59:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:
hinking.gif


Kent State makes me think of the song "Four Dead in Ohio"

HOW the FUCK was that self defense?

Were the hippies armed?



That is because d. crosby read about it in the paper or heard it on the radio, went off by himself and came back in a few minutes with the song. The song was released with in a couple weeks I believe.

No the hippies were not armed, it was a peaceful demonstration, sure they were upset but were not armed. Standing on the hill that the soldiers were standing and looking at where the poeple that were shot were it is obvious that it couldn't be self defence. A samll group of the soldiers walked forward of the rest lined up, droped to one knee and started firing. I think that 2 of the people killed were not even involed with the demonstration but were on their way to class.
There is a metal sculpure on the hill with a .30 hole in it that is there still. Seeing that really brings it home.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:19:03 PM EDT
nice one!
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:16:22 PM EDT
Before you finish with the Bonus Marchers you mgiht want to add into your story. when the leaders of the March disbanded the camp and the march. the numbers of days after Waters told the guys to go home, etc etc etc, How many warnings were given to disperse etc etc, and then the decision to remove the remainders. Little more information needs to be included to give an accurate picture. Kind of like how the US Commies supported Hitler until he attacked Russia never gets mentioned.

Wonder how long it would take for a bunch of guys here to advocate violent removal of illegal Mexican aliens if they decided to hold a sit-down and squaters camp on the DC Mall by the Lincoln Memorial?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:19:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Before you finish with the Bonus Marchers you mgiht want to add into your story. when the leaders of the March disbanded the camp and the march. the numbers of days after Waters told the guys to go home, etc etc etc, How many warnings were given to disperse etc etc, and then the decision to remove the remainders. Little more information needs to be included to give an accurate picture. Kind of like how the US Commies supported Hitler until he attacked Russia never gets mentioned.

Wonder how long it would take for a bunch of guys here to advocate violent removal of illegal Mexican aliens if they decided to hold a sit-down and squaters camp on the DC Mall by the Lincoln Memorial?



None of that justifies the use of military force against US citizens, killing some.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:32:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

Ruby Ridge was a little close to home, but not on such a scale as to really be compared to the others.

-Ben




I disagree. What other example has a man exonerated after killing a Federal Agent in a shootout?

Or a woman killed by a Federal sniper for simply standing in her doorway holding an infant?

None of the subjects at Ruby Ridge had commited a violent crime. But a fourteen year old boy and his mother were killed by direct gunfire from Federal Agents.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:34:23 PM EDT
Kent state was not an overt order to fire.

Doesn't fit good as evidence. Maybe as demonstrating willingness ot those in the service of the government to do it, but not good for demonstrating the willingness of the gov't itself to give the order.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:35:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jchewie:

Originally Posted By shotar:
Well, I have no problem with the government retaking Elian for his father. Above and beyond all else in this world, the right of a Parent to raise his son is paramount. It was about the only good thing Reno and company did during their tenure.



Yeah, except Elian's father is now FIDEL F-ING CASTRO!




He was just going to work at Taco Bell anyway

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:39:17 PM EDT
To be perfectly fair, President Hoover only ordered McArthur to remove the protestors from Pennsylvania avenue. He specifically ordered MacArthur NOT to cross the bridge over into Anacostia.

And there were SOME commies among the vets. Its unclear how many but there were a few.

But yeah, the bonus march was mostly peaceful. If you want to blame someone blame MacArthur for exceeding his orders.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:39:41 PM EDT


Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Well, in reality EVERYTHING that the government does is with the ultimate underlying threat of violence if you don't comply.



One could put those words on a bumper sticker, because it's the truth.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:42:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Magurgle:

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:



Kent State makes me think of the song "Four Dead in Ohio"

HOW the FUCK was that self defense?

Were the hippies armed?



That is because d. crosby read about it in the paper or heard it on the radio, went off by himself and came back in a few minutes with the song. The song was released with in a couple weeks I believe.

No the hippies were not armed, it was a peaceful demonstration, sure they were upset but were not armed. Standing on the hill that the soldiers were standing and looking at where the poeple that were shot were it is obvious that it couldn't be self defence. A samll group of the soldiers walked forward of the rest lined up, droped to one knee and started firing. I think that 2 of the people killed were not even involed with the demonstration but were on their way to class.
There is a metal sculpure on the hill with a .30 hole in it that is there still. Seeing that really brings it home.



Oh, then I was totally wrong about the protesting "students" setting fire to
a building, destroying other property and other miscellaneous violent
mayhem.
Pardon me.


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