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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:26:33 PM EDT
"The Court noted that Congress began
regulating marijuana in 1937, first taxing it and later banning its possession. Id. at 2202.
This was remarkably similar to Congress’ initial 1930’s regulation of machine guns by
taxation, and later through a possession ban."

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 7:39:02 PM EDT
Funny how they are both harmless.....



And only one of them is a real threat to an overpowering government


The other is a modern day Soma.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:06:10 PM EDT
One other curious little fact.......... Get caught with either and your donkey is escorted to da pokie

i.e. - YOUR ASS GETS THROWN IN JAIL

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:13:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SgtSwat:
One other curious little fact.......... Get caught with either and your donkey is escorted to da pokie

i.e. - YOUR ASS GETS THROWN IN JAIL






Not true. Posession of small amounts of pot are quite often let go at the officers discretion. Small amounts of machineguns are never given a pass.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:18:04 PM EDT
Marijuana, MachineGun, Moonshine, Militia many good things begin with M but the government is only intersted in Money which the others provide.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:37:40 PM EDT
Get both!
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:48:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By SgtSwat:
One other curious little fact.......... Get caught with either and your donkey is escorted to da pokie

i.e. - YOUR ASS GETS THROWN IN JAIL






Not true. Posession of small amounts of pot are quite often let go at the officers discretion. Small amounts of machineguns are never given a pass.



Dead on! Most cops view marajuana as a waste of time.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:57:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By SgtSwat:
One other curious little fact.......... Get caught with either and your donkey is escorted to da pokie

i.e. - YOUR ASS GETS THROWN IN JAIL






Not true. Posession of small amounts of pot are quite often let go at the officers discretion. Small amounts of machineguns are never given a pass.



Dead on! Most cops view marajuana as a waste of time.



Cops may view mary jane as a waste of time, but there are still people sitting in jail as felons whose crime was growing pot for their own consumption.

I guess the cops that threw those people away must have felt differently.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:04:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Funny how they are both harmless.....



And only one of them is a real threat to an overpowering government


The other is a modern day Soma.



Which is why I fear it being legalized.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:08:02 PM EDT
Hey, if they legalize pot AND machineguns, the machineguns will hop around and murder the schoolchildren that stoners are too lazy to shoot. Errrr.. wait a second.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:12:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By SgtSwat:
One other curious little fact.......... Get caught with either and your donkey is escorted to da pokie

i.e. - YOUR ASS GETS THROWN IN JAIL






Not true. Posession of small amounts of pot are quite often let go at the officers discretion. Small amounts of machineguns are never given a pass.



Dead on! Most cops view marajuana as a waste of time.



Cops may view mary jane as a waste of time, but there are still people sitting in jail as felons whose crime was growing pot for their own consumption.

I guess the cops that threw those people away must have felt differently.



Vice cops second lowest form of govenment vermin behind only BATFE agents. I say this as someone who has not partaken of mj in 4+ years and was never a regular user. As long as they are not a threat to the public thier should be no prohibition laws of any kind.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:19:33 PM EDT
OH NO BUT IF WE DONT LEGISLATE MORALITY THE COUNTRY WILL GO TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET. Yeah uuuuh.... we are falling at terminal velocity anyway what with illegal immigration and the general pacification of the populace.... might as well have a good time on the way down. Hookers, blow, and MACHINEGUNS for everyone!
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 10:28:08 PM EDT
I believe STATES should be able to legislate morality. In the beginning we were not meant to be a uniform shade dictated by Washington DC. Let one state be quaker and another hedonist. Centralism is turning us against each other as it did in the 1860s. We all know how that turned out.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:30:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By FredM:
Funny how they are both harmless.....



And only one of them is a real threat to an overpowering government


The other is a modern day Soma.



Which is why I fear it being legalized.



How is it any different from Valium or the occasional relaxing beer?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:37:28 AM EDT
There is a more recent similarity where the courts ruled that homegrown marijuana for personal use affected "interstate commerce" and was thus subject to all the federal restrictions. That effectively shot down any hope of a homebuilt machine for private use only being allowed.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:50:24 AM EDT
Here is some of the discussion of the NFA versus the Marihuana Tax Act from the transcripts of the hearings for the Marihuana Tax Act.


The purpose of H.R. 6385 is to employ the Federal taxing power not only to raise revenue from the marihuana traffic, but also to discourage the current and widespread undesirable use of marihuana by smokers and drug addicts and thus drive the traffic into channels where the plant will be put to valuable industrial, medical, and scientific uses. In accomplishing this general purpose two objectives should dictate the form of the proposed legislation: First, the development of a scheme of taxation which would raise revenue and which would also render virtually impossible the acquisition of marihuana by person who would put it to illicit uses without unduly interfering with the use of the plant for industrial , medical, and scientific purposes; and second, the development of an adequate means of publicizing dealings in marihuana in order that the traffic may be effectively taxed and controlled.

The Harrison Narcotics Act (U.S.C. title 26, sec 1040-1054 1383-1391), was designed to accomplish these same general objectives with reference to opium and coca leaves and their derivatives. That act required all legitimate handlers of narcotics to register, pay an occupational tax, and file information returns setting forth the details surrounding their use of the drugs. It further provided that no transfer of narcotics (with a few exceptions, notably by practicioners in their bona-fide practice and druggists who dispense on prescription) could be made except upon written order forms. Since it was also provided that no one except registered persons could legally acquire these order forms and since illicit consumers were not eligible to register, the order-form requirement serves the double purpose of publicizing transfers of narcotics and restricting them to legitimate users.

The same objectives impelled Congress to enact the National Firearms Act (U.S.C. title 26, sec. 1132-1132q) In that act, in order to accomplish them, it was provided that all manufacturers, dealers, and importers of firearms should register and pay special taxes ranging from $200 to $500 per year. It was further provided that firearms could not be transferred except in pursuance of a written order form and upon payment of a $200 tax for each transfer, transfers made to law enforcement officers being excepted. Thus, provision was made for publicizing dealings in firearms and for restricting their use to those persons who would have legitimate use for them.



from STATEMENT OF CLINTON M. HESTER

You will note that he starts by saying that the purpose of the law was to raise revenue. This was the same thing they said about the Harrison Act and the NFA. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. The way the enforcement was set up, there was no way you could pay the tax without going to jail in the process. They simply required Federal licenses and then refused to issue any licenses.

In a further statement he said:


This bill is modeled upon both the Harrison Narcotics Act and the National Firearms Act, which were designed to accomplish these same general objectives with respect to opium and coca leaves, and firearms, respectively.

Under the provisions of this bill all legitimate handlers of marihuana, are required to pay occupational taxes as follows: Manufacturers, compounders, and importers, $24 per year; producers, $5 per year; dealers, $3 per year; practitioners (doctors, dentists, veterinarians, and other of like character), and persons who use marihuana for experimental purposes, $1 per year. These persons, in addition to paying the occupational tax, must register with the collector of Internal Revenue and file information returns as to their dealings in marihuana.

However, as an additional means of bringing the traffic in marihuana into the open, the bill requires all transfers of marihuana to be made in pursuance of the official order forms issued by the Secretary of the Treasury, upon which the details of the transaction are set forth. In order to raise additional revenue and to prevent transfers to persons who would use marihuana for undesirable purposes, a transfer tax is imposed upon each transfer of marihuana. Upon transfer to registered persons, this tax is $1 per ounce, while, upon transfers to non-registered persons, who under ordinary circumstances will be the illicit users of marihuana, a heavy tax off $100 is imposed. Heavy criminal penalties are provided for the manufacturing, producing, or dealing in marihuana without registering and paying the special taxes, for transferring marihuana not in pursuance of an order form, and for acquiring marihuana without payment of the transfer tax.

Thus, the bill is designed, through the occupational tax and the order form procedure, to publicize legitimate dealings in marihuana and through the $100 transfer tax to prevent the drug from coming into the hands of those who will put it to illicit uses.



from Additional STATEMENT OF CLINTON M. HESTER

One interesting thing to note here is the relatively trivial amounts of the licensing fees. Only one dollar for a research license. But, of course, the best researchers from the best universities still find it nearly impossible to get a license to do legitimate research. This whole thing is a lesson is how to achieve prohibition of something through bureaucracy, even then the law apparently allows for orderly regulation.

The discussion goes on and talks about the previous Supreme Court rulings on the relevant constitutional issues. Those are interesting stories in themselves. In short, they were what you might call "rigged" to get the Federal Bureau of Narcotics the additional powers they wanted.



Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:53:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
There is a more recent similarity where the courts ruled that homegrown marijuana for personal use affected "interstate commerce" and was thus subject to all the federal restrictions. That effectively shot down any hope of a homebuilt machine for private use only being allowed.



I think the court is really confused on these issues right now. IIRC, there was already a ruling that a homebuilt machine gun was not interstate commerce, but a private plot of marijuana was.

The marijuana decision was Raich. I am sure someone here is familiar with the machine gun decision. I can't recall the name just offhand.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:04:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
There is a more recent similarity where the courts ruled that homegrown marijuana for personal use affected "interstate commerce" and was thus subject to all the federal restrictions. That effectively shot down any hope of a homebuilt machine for private use only being allowed.



I think the court is really confused on these issues right now. IIRC, there was already a ruling that a homebuilt machine gun was not interstate commerce, but a private plot of marijuana was.

The marijuana decision was Raich. I am sure someone here is familiar with the machine gun decision. I can't recall the name just offhand.



United States v. Stewart

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Stewart


United States v. Stewart was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States overturned a Circuit Court ruling relating to the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution, which allows the United States Congress "To regulate Commerce ... among the several States."

The case

On June 3, 2002, Bob Stewart was sentenced to five years in prison. He was convicted of being a felon in possession of a firearm and of possessing several unregistered, home-made machine guns. The case deals with whether Congress can, under its Commerce Clause power, prohibit the mere possession of homemade machine guns. The law challenged is Section 18 U.S.C. § 922(o), which makes it unlawful to “transfer or possess a machinegun."
[edit]

Background

An ATF search of Mr. Stewart's residence turned up thirty-one firearms, including five machine guns. The machine guns had been machined and assembled by Stewart. Stewart was charged and convicted of one count of felony possession of firearms in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1) and § 924(a)(2), and five counts of unlawful possession of a machinegun in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(o). Stewart appealed his conviction for unlawful possession of machine guns, claiming that 18 U.S.C. § 922(o) is an invalid exercise of Congress’s commerce power and violates the Second Amendment.
[edit]

Ninth Circuit Court Appeals opinion

Mr. Stewart won his case in an opinion rendered by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, on November 13th, 2003. The United States Department of Justice then requested and received a stay, while they appealed the case to the Supreme Court of the United States. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that:

* "...a homemade machinegun may be part of a gun collection or may be crafted as a hobby. Or it may be used for illegal purposes. Whatever its intended use, without some evidence that it will be sold or transferred—and there is none here—its relationship to interstate commerce is highly attenuated."

* "...section 922(o) contains no jurisdictional element anchoring the prohibited activity to interstate commerce."

* "...there is no evidence that section 922(o) was enacted to regulate commercial aspects of the machinegun business. More likely, section 922(o) was intended to keep machineguns out of the hands of criminals—an admirable goal, but not a commercial one."



Current status

Citing the results of the Gonzales v. Raich case (June 5th, 2005), the Supreme Court decided not to hear the case but rather to vacate the ruling below and remand it to court of appeals "in light of" Raich. The Ninth Circuit was thereby directed to reconsider Stewart and be guided in that reconsideration by Raich. Raich holds that Congress can use the Commerce Clause to ban homegrown marijuana; the implication of the Court's vacation is that Congress also has the power to criminalize the possession of homemade machine guns even though they were never involved in a commercial transaction.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:06:41 AM EDT
Thanks. I hadn't heard that last part about being reconsidered in light of Raich. I guess the bottom line is that you couldn't build your own machine gun even if you mined the ore and smelted the steel yourself.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:55:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By SgtSwat:
One other curious little fact.......... Get caught with either and your donkey is escorted to da pokie

i.e. - YOUR ASS GETS THROWN IN JAIL






Not true. Posession of small amounts of pot are quite often let go at the officers discretion. Small amounts of machineguns are never given a pass.



Dead on! Most cops view marajuana as a waste of time.



Don't bet on it. A ...er friend of mine...served time for getting caught growing six pot seedlings.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:08:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasEd:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By SgtSwat:
One other curious little fact.......... Get caught with either and your donkey is escorted to da pokie

i.e. - YOUR ASS GETS THROWN IN JAIL






Not true. Posession of small amounts of pot are quite often let go at the officers discretion. Small amounts of machineguns are never given a pass.



Dead on! Most cops view marajuana as a waste of time.



Don't bet on it. A ...er friend of mine...served time for getting caught growing six pot seedlings.



It depends on who and where you are. Jimmy Montgomery got ten years (reduced from life) for two ounces of pot in Oklahoma. Meanwhile, there are several dozen stores openly selling the stuff in California, and the penalty for possession of an ounce or less in California is $100.

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