I had this discussion with a friend a while ago.  He's a pretty left wing guy - hates Bush Jr. like like Bush Sr. hates Brocolli.  However, I got him to admit that the Republicans are better on certain issues - RKBA, military and national defence (Not the War), and some others.  In response he asked me if I would admit that the Democrats are right about something.  I honestly tried, but I couldn't come up with anything.  I told him I would get back to him on it.

So.... are the Dems right on ANY issue


-K

Pot/medicinal marijuana? Republicans irritate me in their strident insistence to criminalize dope in my state.

And.........well, personally, think abortion should be legal.  It's disgusting and I hate it, but driving it underground and criminalizing safely doing it bothers me.

Also I think anti-death penalty people are right, mainly because of the prospect of wrongly executing the wrong person.  I would have no qualms if every death row convict could be guaranteed to be 100% guilty.

As far as ideas that originate with them, no, those are pretty much all just crap.

I think their right in ideas. I like the idea of everyone having good, affordable healthcare. I like the idea of the helping those less fortunate. Its in practice these ideas really get fucked up.

So yes. Their right in ideas. Its in the application they turn it into a big ass raping clusterfuck.

I agree with the decriminilizing aspects.

Basically, I only agree with the Dems where it overlaps with the Libertarian view. Which ain't much.

Quoted: I think their right in ideas. I like the idea of everyone having good, affordable healthcare. I like the idea of the helping those less fortunate. Its in practice these ideas really get fucked up. So yes. Their right in ideas. Its in the application they turn it into a big ass raping clusterfuck.

What part of that had anything to do with government?  Just curious.  Sounds like a totalitarian manefesto to me.

Quoted: I think their right in ideas. I like the idea of everyone having good, affordable healthcare. I like the idea of the helping those less fortunate. Its in practice these ideas really get fucked up. So yes. Their right in ideas. Its in the application they turn it into a big ass raping clusterfuck.

What part of that had anything to do with government?  Just curious.  Sounds like a totalitarian manefesto to me.

They never have been and never will.

The marijuana thing.  Like it or not, there is not justification for keeping it illegal when alcohol kills 6 times more people than all illegal drugs combined.

Double tap

Nope

In some ways they are right about supporting the union concept of protecting the worker, but even there they have gone overboard.

In some ways they are right about supporting the union concept of protecting the worker, but even there they have gone overboard.

I am basically a secular libertarian, so on "a womans right to choose", "right to die", "seperation of church and state" and some other secular issues, I am with them. However, these are not the hot button issues for me... "small govt", "lower taxes" and "RKBA" are what I am interested in, and the Republicans deliver on 2 out of 3 at least.

I am, however, old and wise/cynical enough to ally myself with the religious, pro-life etc. conservative movement anyway, because opposing the libs on these less important (to me) issues causes them to fight on more fronts, and hence dilutes their anti-gun, tax-n-spend efforts.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend .

well, they're pretty much contrary to the constitution on every issue, so no, they're not right about anything.

I actually don't see the Democrats as airheads that just can't think of anything. They are much worse than that.

Their problem is that they have hitched their wagon to a corrupt star--one in which no evil exists, with abortion on demand, high taxes for anyone approaching annual income of $50,000 or more, welfare for everyone that does not want to work, big unions, gun grabbing, and being led around by the Hollywood liberals and assholes like Michael Moore. They hopefully are finally being eaten alive by the very groups that they say they represent. Unfortunately, this is not what the country wants, judging by the 2004 presidential election (and hopefully the 2006 elections).

No, the Democrats remind me of the story of the three little pigs. They have built their house out of straw. Now that the big, bad wolf has blown their house down, they want to come to the third pig's brick house for protection and to eat his food for free. He politely tells them to go fuck themselves. Everyone lives happily ever after.

No they're not.

They're wrong about everything!

civil liberties

Democrates right about anything??????? MODERN Democratic party=I don't think so myself.

Quoted: civil liberties

Uhhhh.......they fought AGAINST civil liberties, boy they sure did a good job of rewriting history

I can't think of anything they got right, maybe he will give you a list for us to tear apart piece by piece

Quoted: civil liberties

IIRC Republicans voted more for civil rights in the 60s. Paying someone to do nothing is the worst abuse imaginable. Blacks have masters and don't realize it.

Quoted: Quoted: civil liberties Uhhhh.......they fought AGAINST civil liberties, boy they sure did a good job of rewriting history I can't think of anything they got right, maybe he will give you a list for us to tear apart piece by piece

Stole my thunder. I know of nothing the Demos are correct on. Hell, the Republicans are too far left for me!

Neither party has much to crow about. Both are full of hypocritical, self-serving ideas that taken to their extremes ruins freedom.

Both have good ideas, too....in small doses.

Right and wrong are not the domain of political parties.

Quoted: civil liberties

yeah, that mccain/feingold really is protecting our first amendment rights.

Feingold is the biggest joke. He'll pose for holy pictures because he opposed the patriot act, but his name is on one of the most egregious assaults on the first amendment ever.

Quoted: Quoted: civil liberties yeah, that mccain/feingold really is protecting our first amendment rights. Feingold is the biggest joke. He'll pose for holy pictures because he opposed the patriot act, but his name is on one of the most egregious assaults on the first amendment ever.

That's 1 example. You can turn it around over and over on any issue and find where one party totally fucking blows it.

The left has been pretty good at sticking up for 1st amendment rights, as much as the right has stuck up for 2nd amendment rights. Then, there are those rotten exceptions to both of those.

Quoted: I actually don't see the Democrats as airheads that just can't think of anything. They are much worse than that. Their problem is that they have hitched their wagon to a corrupt star--one in which no evil exists, with abortion on demand, high taxes for anyone approaching annual income of $50,000 or more, welfare for everyone that does not want to work, big unions, gun grabbing, and being led around by the Hollywood liberals and assholes like Michael Moore. They hopefully are finally being eaten alive by the very groups that they say they represent. Unfortunately, this is not what the country wants, judging by the 2004 presidential election (and hopefully the 2006 elections). No, the Democrats remind me of the story of the three little pigs. They have built their house out of straw. Now that the big, bad wolf has blown their house down, they want to come to the third pig's brick house for protection and to eat his food for free. He politely tells them to go fuck themselves. Everyone lives happily ever after.

The 04 election was pretty close. As much as Bush has alienated the Right...... I dont think the next election will go well for us.

What the liberals believe is a utopian society achieved by unrealistic means with perfect people who don't exist and a government that possesses all the wonderful characteristics of God which isn't going to happen...
 they have an unrealistic perception of economy, money, religion, education and the phenomenal  human being and the wonder of life.
 They are extremely proud and think more highly of themselves as having achieved some superior level of existence making them authorities in the plans of civilization.  
  they are poor historians and do not learn from previous civilizations.  They are poor interpretors of language, truth, wisdom and any facts relating to the creation itself...
They call evil good and they can call good evil...they can lie about the obvious and are not persuadeded the truth.
To quote, they  think themselves wise making them fools...
  As a caller to a talk radio show once said, they are crazy...they appear normal with everyday conversation but when their pet issue is brought up, they go nuts...

 

Abortion
Privacy    loosely
Medical Marajuana
Civil liberties except for the 2nd

Quoted: Neither party has much to crow about. Both are full of hypocritical, self-serving ideas that taken to their extremes ruins freedom. Both have good ideas, too....in small doses. Right and wrong are not the domain of political parties.

+1

I approach Democrat/Socialist/Liberals with this premise....

When presented with pretty much anything they stand for, say or do look for fact, truth & reality 180 degrees in the opposite direction.

nothing comes to mind....

Quoted: I am basically a secular libertarian, so on "a womans right to choose", "right to die", "seperation of church and state" and some other secular issues, I am with them. However, these are not the hot button issues for me... "small govt", "lower taxes" and "RKBA" are what I am interested in, and the Republicans deliver on 2 out of 3 at least. I am, however, old and wise/cynical enough to ally myself with the religious, pro-life etc. conservative movement anyway, because opposing the libs on these less important (to me) issues causes them to fight on more fronts, and hence dilutes their anti-gun, tax-n-spend efforts. The enemy of my enemy is my friend .

Yeah what he said.

One must understand an important distinction. There are people who believe that government should have a bigger role in solving societal problems, and then there are liberals. The people who believe that government should be more active in solving social problems are who I think of when I think "Democrat". By in large they are honorable people who have a belief that because government is a non-profit and thus "dispassionate" entity, that it should be the one stepping in to solve lots of problems. On some matters they are right, and on some they are not.

Government regulation is a necessity in some things. As Teddy Roosevelt said, the only problem with capitalism is some of the capitalists, meaning that some scum-suckers won't do the right thing unless they are forced to. Thus the existence of the SEC and similar regulatory agencies is required to make the economy function. Government does its best work when its scope is narrow and it is addressing specific problems that are easily quantified.


Government involvement in social matters and in dealing with the fears of the nation, however, usually complicates things and creates more problems than it solves. Take Social Security as an example. Rather than solve the problem of taking care of a percentage of the elderly who had no other means of provision, it instead became viewed by many people as their retirement, and they made no alternate provisions expecting that SS would take care of them. The reality is that SS was never designed to provide a comfortable retirement for ANYONE, merely to be enough to keep people from starving to death in their old age or when they could not work. Now we have a huge system and we have the largest demographic group in our nation's history about to start suckling from the gooberment teat, and the entire economy of the country is thus endangered.

SS was a noble concept in that it was meant to stop the elderly from starving. But in execution it has created massive problems that are of a universal scope.

The motives of Democrats are usually noble, but their in-ability to understand the fundamental limitations of goverment actions often turns their noble purposes into disasters. Government cannot become the means by which all of people's fears are dealt with. Whenever government tries to adress the fear of not getting healthcare, it inevitably fouls up. And as the people of the US increasingly expect government to protect them from fears about health and aging, government stupidity is multiplied exponentially. This is where I disagree with Democrats.

Liberals, on the other hand, are pure narcissists. They believe themselves to be messiah figures, more educated and intelligent than everyone else, more enlightened, more worthy. To them government is not a means to an end, but is rather an end in itself. Because they believe that everyone who disagrees with them is either evil or stupid, they seek government power to force people into their mold. We see this in things like college speech codes, the "diversity" fad, etc. Politcal correctness in general is not about solving problems but is about reshaping society in their image. This is why they attack the Constitution, try to re-write history and seek to rule by judicial fiat if they cannot be elected.

Democrats are people who I disagree with on approach. Generally I want the same thing as Democrats, I just believe there is a better way to accomplish it that won't create the problems that come with larger government involvement in our lives.

Liberals, on the other hand, are people who think I am the devil. There is no way to have a rational conversation or discussion with them because they are rabid crusaders of a basically religious cause. When confronted with facts, they repeat slogans and talking points. They weep for murderers and laugh at the murder of the unborn.

There is a difference between liberals and Democrats. The trouble is that the Democrats have let the liberals define them as opposed to treating them like that crazy uncle that everybody stays away from at the family reunion.

Quoted: The marijuana thing.  Like it or not, there is not justification for keeping it illegal when alcohol kills 6 times more people than all illegal drugs combined.

Perhaps the reason that alcohol kills so many is because........It is legal?

And that if we had readily available legal PCP and Crack, that we might see an increase in deaths associated with those drugs too?

Just a thought.

Quoted: "seperation of church and state"

Which, I must point out, is not in the Constitution ANYWHERE. Those are words wrested from the context of a Jefferson letter to some Baptists that the PC libbies I mentioned earlier have turned into a weapon with which to war against Christianity.

As I said, liberals have a messiah complex, and they are trying to eliminate the competition, namely Jesus.

I am, however, old and wise/cynical enough to ally myself with the religious, pro-life etc. conservative movement anyway, because opposing the libs on these less important (to me) issues causes them to fight on more fronts, and hence dilutes their anti-gun, tax-n-spend efforts.

The conservative is not, has not, and never shall be your "enemy" if you want to preserve the America our founders intended.

Viewing someone with suspicion because they think that religious expression has a place in public life is as rediculous as eyeing the founding fathers with suspicion because they held the exact same belief.

It is a sign that the libbie campaing to redefine American history and our Constitution is having its effect, even on people who don't really agree with the libs on any of their goals. But given enough time and enough fear mongering from them, you will side with them because you are "afraid" of Pat Robertson.

Don't be afraid of a TV preacher. Be afraid of the libbies who have GOVERNMENT POWER that they are using to push their agenda. Concepts like Afirmative Action, Gun Control, mandatory "Diversity" training and "Hate Speech" have not come from the religious right. Pat Robertson hasn't showed up to high school graduations demanding that they pray or else. The ACLU, on the other hand, HAS sent "operatives" to graduations to MONITOR THE SPEECH OF US CITIZENS. The libbies are the ones who want to take your freedoms.

Not me.

Give them the sink-eye.

Not me.

Quoted: That's 1 example. You can turn it around over and over on any issue and find where one party totally fucking blows it. The left has been pretty good at sticking up for 1st amendment rights,

No they havent!

The left has done their damndest to define the 1st ammendment as allowing boobies on television and porno on shelves but NOT allowing free political expression or religious expression. The founders weren't thinking about Howard Stern when they wrote the 1st ammendment. They WERE thinking of making sure Baptists were free to be Baptists all the time and that you, me, and a couple of other guys could get together and run some advertising in a paper that criticizes a candidate for federal office around election time, which is currently ILLEGAL.

Don't drink the libbie kool-aid here.

The American left wants to completely redefine the Constitution to fit THEIR preferences, and they are doing a damn fine job of it when people believe that the 1st grants people the "right" to boobies on television but does not allow a class Valedictorian to mention Jesus in a graduation speech.

Quoted: Abortion Privacy    loosely

You have got to be kidding me.

Who is it that wants gun registration? Who is it that wants to regulate whether or not you smoke in your home? Who is it that wants a massive tax code that dictates every dollar you spend?

The libs don't care about privacy!

Medical Marajuana

Marijuana's medical benefits have yet to be proven. And in any case, the people I see campaigning the hardest for MJ are doing so not because they have a great medical need, but because they want to get high.

Civil liberties except for the 2nd

Have you been smoking some of that MJ???

They don't believe the 1st ammendment protects political speech or religious expression.

They don't believe the second ammendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms.

They don't believe the 4th ammendment protects a person from having the gooberment try to register and then confiscate privately held firearms.

They don't believe in MOST of the bill of rights!

How, then, are they good on civil liberties? Because they opposed the Patriot act?

Liberals are only concerned about "civil liberties" when a murderer or terrorist might actually be convicted of something.

Not when it is your average American citizen whose rights are  being trampled. Hell, liberals are RESPONSIBLE for most of the right trampling that happens these days!!!

Quoted: Quoted: The marijuana thing.  Like it or not, there is not justification for keeping it illegal when alcohol kills 6 times more people than all illegal drugs combined. Perhaps the reason that alcohol kills so many is because........It is legal? And that if we had readily available legal PCP and Crack, that we might see an increase in deaths associated with those drugs too? Just a thought.

A dumb thought.  Aspirin overdoses kill hundreds of people a year.  How many people die from cannabis a year? None. Yet which is legal and a child can buy, and which is illegal?  Alcohol and aspirin are toxic in large doses, cannabis isn't.   Illegalizing alcohol didn't change its toxicity, if anything, the illegal nature made its consumption more dangerous (bad QC in its manufacture).

Are the Democrats right about anything?  In a word, no.

I have lived long enough to realize coincidences are just that, freak occurences.

When a I leanred dogs barked, I expected dogs to bark.

I watch Dims over and over be dead wrong on everything from Socialized medicine to defense. Add RKBA and domestic soverignty.


I have pretty much concluded any position the Dims have, I am firmly opposed to. Anything outside of that, Its a trap.

Quoted: A dumb thought.

Only if you are completely ignorant about the way that statistics work.

Aspirin overdoses kill hundreds of people a year.  How many people die from cannabis a year? None.

For this to be a legitimate comparison one would have to consider how many people use aspirin versus how many use MJ, plus a consideration of accidents caused by people under the influence of both drugs, etc.

Your "none" arguement wouldn't hold up under such examination. I would also like to know where your "hundreds of people" figure comes from for Aspirin....

Yet which is legal and a child can buy, and which is illegal?

Another key difference: Aspirin is a drug that is available to treat very real medical issues. It has been approved by the FDA and has an established thereputic benefit recognized by all doctors in the nation, and has no intoxicating effect.

MJ doesn't have any of that going for it.

Alcohol and aspirin are toxic in large doses, cannabis isn't.   Illegalizing alcohol didn't change its toxicity, if anything, the illegal nature made its consumption more dangerous (bad QC in its manufacture).

Hardly.

More people die as a result of legal alcohol EVERY YEAR than did during the prohibition gang wars altogether.

Legal alcohol has enormous social and medical costs associated with it because a small percentage of the population abuses it and then gets in cars.

Legal MJ would see the exact same results.

Quoted: One must understand an important distinction. There are people who believe that government should have a bigger role in solving societal problems, and then there are liberals.

Very well put.  The fomer I can deal with, I don't agree but I can understand.  The later makes my head explode!

Good old JohnWayne777 has pretty well hammered this one into submission, but I'd like to address a few points, if I may.

Not to pick on my friend Raven, but he lists some easy ones.

Quoted: Pot/medicinal marijuana? Republicans irritate me in their strident insistence to criminalize dope in my state.

I disagree with you on legalizing Marijuana, but since we are discussing party beliefs, let's look at this one in a different light.

If you don't like MJ laws, what recourse do you have?  You can campaign against the laws and try to change them.

You won't have much success, because the vast majority of Americans fully understand the dangers of allowing the weak-minded amoung us to be dopped-up and useless in society.

But the Democtars try to say that there is a Consititutional right to smoke dope.  There isn't.  Therefore, the states can regulate it as the majority of the citizens see fit.

If the minority of the citizens don't like it, they can try to change the law.

And.........well, personally, think abortion should be legal.  It's disgusting and I hate it, but driving it underground and criminalizing safely doing it bothers me.

You and I are in agreement on this one.....I hate abortion too.

But once again, the Democrats have promoted Supreme Court Judges that say that there is a Constitutional Right to have abortions.  No one in their right mind can find that in the Constitution.

Why?  Because it's not in there.

Therefore, the states have the right to limit abortions, the murdering of babies, as the majority of citizens see fit.

Don't like it?  See above.

Also I think anti-death penalty people are right, mainly because of the prospect of wrongly executing the wrong person.  I would have no qualms if every death row convict could be guaranteed to be 100% guilty.

For all practical purposes, your wish for "if every death row convict could be guaranteed to be 100% guilty" has been met, as far as humanly possible.

Our justice system is based upon controling the evil doers among us by punishing the guilty.  It tries its best to minimize mistakes, but there will always be a very small number of mistakes.

The death penalty is only administered for the worst crimes, and then after mulitple appeals and re-trails if necessary.  "Innocent" people being executed is so rare to be a statistical zero.

But, once again, the Democrats say that the death penalty is "un-Constitutional".  Of course, it is not.  If anything, the Constitution approves of the death penalty.

Democrats are bankrupt in their ideas because they always lose in the courts of public opinion and retreat to the court system to try to force their ideas upon an unwilling majority by subtrafuge.

Liberals have no love for the Truth.  They are always satisfied to lie to win their battles.

My prayer is that God will continue to Bless this nation by allowing the Liberals and their kind to be defeated in all areas.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The marijuana thing.  Like it or not, there is not justification for keeping it illegal when alcohol kills 6 times more people than all illegal drugs combined. Perhaps the reason that alcohol kills so many is because........It is legal? And that if we had readily available legal PCP and Crack, that we might see an increase in deaths associated with those drugs too? Just a thought. A dumb thought.  Aspirin overdoses kill hundreds of people a year.  How many people die from cannabis a year? None. Yet which is legal and a child can buy, and which is illegal?  Alcohol and aspirin are toxic in large doses, cannabis isn't.   Illegalizing alcohol didn't change its toxicity, if anything, the illegal nature made its consumption more dangerous (bad QC in its manufacture).

Asprin may be toxic in large doses, but it has never made me drive out to White Castle at 3am to order a sack of 10 and a bag of onion chips.

Quoted: Quoted: The marijuana thing.  Like it or not, there is not justification for keeping it illegal when alcohol kills 6 times more people than all illegal drugs combined. Perhaps the reason that alcohol kills so many is because........It is legal? And that if we had readily available legal PCP and Crack, that we might see an increase in deaths associated with those drugs too? Just a thought.

I said marijuana, not PCP and Crack,  Anyway, anyone who doesnt think that marijuana is just as easy to get as liquor is sheltered.

The environment.

Some of their special interest groups are way overboard but the Repbulicans are lousy on the environment.  Getting their act together would bring millions of votes over the Republicans and put a lock on power long term.  Beats the Hell out of trying to appease the Mexicans, including illegal voters, and attempting to buy the votes of seniors whith more handouts we cannot afford.

Quoted: Good old JohnWayne777 has pretty well hammered this one into submission, but I'd like to address a few points, if I may. Not to pick on my friend Raven, but he lists some easy ones. Quoted: Pot/medicinal marijuana? Republicans irritate me in their strident insistence to criminalize dope in my state. I disagree with you on legalizing Marijuana, but since we are discussing party beliefs, let's look at this one in a different light. If you don't like MJ laws, what recourse do you have?  You can campaign against the laws and try to change them. You won't have much success, because the vast majority of Americans fully understand the dangers of allowing the weak-minded amoung us to be dopped-up and useless in society.

I have mixed feelings on this one. Don't think much of dopers but your statement could be extended to any manner of things.

But the Democtars try to say that there is a Consititutional right to smoke dope.  There isn't.

While it is not specifically enumerated, I disagree, again with mixed feelings.
This America and we are all free men. At least we are supposed to be.

Quoted: I said marijuana, not PCP and Crack,  Anyway, anyone who doesnt think that marijuana is just as easy to get as liquor is sheltered.

Marijuana is widely available, but it is still ILLEGAL.

There are significant numbers of people who will not use Marijuana precisely because it is illegal.

Removing that barrier WILL increase the useage of the drug, and problems associated with its use will also increase.

Republicans are hypocritical when it comes to things like bankruptcy reform. They went after the middle class on it and didn't do a damned thing to corporations or banks. Then again, they get most of their money from corporations and banks...