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Posted: 8/8/2001 2:14:08 PM EDT
I have a friend who's interested in 50's, but everyone's a little worried about a 50 "on paper" with all the talk of banning them. Besides buying one used, the AR-15 uppers seem like a good option because they're relatively cheap and require no dealer paperwork. I've never thought much about them, but wonder if anyone has any experience with them? The Ferret50 50 BMG Upper seems relatively new, and is currently onsale for $1,350 delivered to your door. Considering a lower costs $100, this seems like a decent deal for a 50. The Ferret50's webpage is [url]http://ferret50.com/[/url], and they are onsale at [url]http://1919a4.com/[/url]. Does anyone have any experience with this or other 50 caliber uppers? Would appreciate any input. Black Fox
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 2:18:11 PM EDT
Has anyone on this board ordered and received their Ferret50 upper yet? If so, I'd like to see a field report/review.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 2:48:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 3:26:15 PM EDT
Well, anyone? The Ferret50 site makes no claims about accuracy or reliability. I would assume one could expect 2MOA accuracy for quite some distance (the barrel is only 18"), and the weight is almost as much as a Barrett M82. Has anybody tried any 50 BMG uppers for AR-15's at all? Black Fox
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 3:53:41 PM EDT
Anyone?
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 4:54:33 PM EDT
I would be worried about punishing my lower. It is hard to get new AR lowers in the PRK.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 5:09:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2001 5:10:01 PM EDT by Kaliburz]
You can get a 36" barrel according to the 'order' section. It's called the USD Ferret 50 and costs 1650. People have bought the other AR 50 cal upper kits. And they said it won't punish the lower. If I ever bought one, I'd order one of those stainless steel lowers... since it would be a 'permenant' attached lower. Someon should email the manufacturer and see what the accuracy is. Looking at the pics, that thing is missing something. It should have a front site base so one could put an AR handle on it (haa, haa).... Here's some pics This is the bolt... [img]http://ferret50.com/graphics/photos/bolt_extractor.jpg[/img] The chamber.... [img]http://ferret50.com/graphics/photos/bolt_open_ferret50.jpg[/img] Their butt stock.... [img]http://ferret50.com/graphics/photos/left_ferret50.jpg[/img] For more pics go here [url]http://ferret50.com/gallery.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 2:48:55 AM EDT
Thanks, Kaliburz. I didn't see the options on the order page until you mentioned it. I have e-mailed David, but always like to get opinions from people who don't have a buck to make from the deal. As I'm recommending for friends, I want to make sure it's a good recommendation. The muzzle brake is a unique design - I'm wondering how effective it is. I don't imagine it would beat a lower up too much, either. I'm more worried about someone's shoulder! With no buffer/spring, I'm guessing you'll know when it's fired... Has anyone tried ANY of the 50 BMG AR-15 uppers? I've never seen any reports of them, so am wondering if they're just a bad idea? Seems like more people would have them if they were as good as they looked? Black Fox
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 4:43:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 5:06:21 AM EDT
I don't own a Ferret50 (I own an AR50) but I have been at the range when the designer/builder was there shooting it. At the time he was testing several different brakes. The gun is very well made and with the type barrel (manuf) he is using you should be able to get sub-moa with match ammo. MOA is not uncommon, even with quality SURPLUS ammo (yes some is junk). Waldo: I definitely would not consider this some "backyard project made out of spare parts".
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 5:58:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 6:15:01 AM EDT
I've gotten a response from Dave (the owner/manufacturer). I told him I was posting this here, so I believe he's okay with me quoting what he sent to me: "What is your delivery schedule? We finished testing and were open for business on July 4th. So we are really new to the market. Production is running now and deliveries will start in September. I don't see any statement of accuracy. Can you give estimates of what one could expect from the 18" and 36" models? Accuracy from the 18" barrel is .5MOA at 300yd. I will be testing further next week. It is a matter of finding time to test. I have yet to test accuracy with the 36" barrel. I am offering the longer barrel due to many requests. Personally I like the 18" better. Velocity is 2500fps for 18" barrel and 2750 for 36" barrel. I will say that the 18" will be more accurate due to a short rigid barrel. And it is still effective out past 1500yd. How effective is the muzzle brake? Do you have any stats on ft-lbs compared to other rifles? Very effective. I dont have numbers yet. I will be testing a new design break next week also. When I shot last, I went through 70 rounds in a couple of hours and felt no soreness the next day. It looks like your warranty is for life? Yes. The whole upper is very strong. I doubt that anyone will break anything, even if abused. And if they do, I dont want customers concerned that they will have to go elsewhere to get it fixed. I will gladly do it."
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 6:49:59 AM EDT
Olympic Arms makes a T3 Ti (Titanium) lower receiver. Would this provide sufficient strength to handle that big 50 over a lifetime of shooting?
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 7:58:13 AM EDT
Just a note: the weight is under 25lb, length is 42". In the gallery on my site you can see someone shooting offhand. It is that easy. I know my TIG welding sucks. I hadnt touched a TIG in 6 years before building this. I am hiring a pro for production. The prototype was made on a manual machine, production is being done on CNC. As far as machining the receiver out of a solid piece, that would require a laser mill or EDM. Check out the prices of some of the 50 receivers made like that. Not everyone will like the Ferret50, due to the way it looks. This reminds me of my days building drag cars. I would go to the track and chuckle at the ugly dirty cars, until our team lost to those cars. You can put your money in looks, or performance. If you have big wads of cash you can do both. Im sure McBros, Barrett or EDM arms will be glad to accept your order. But if you are like most people who work for a living and support a family, you need a little economey. My whole goal is to make 50's available to the guy who has until now only dreamed about owning a 50. Can I build a prettier gun, hell yes. Will I, sure. But I will always offer the Ferret50 as affordable as I can. Dave
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 8:03:50 AM EDT
Waldo: Sorry about the misuse of "spare parts", but you did say "backyard" didn't you. Give the guy a little break, everyone has to start somewhere, not everyone has the money to go out and buy a CNC machine in the beginning. It is easy to criticize someones else's work, but where is your new designed and fabricated weapon? As for the TIG welding, how do you think the BFG50's are done by Mark Serbu? They hold up fine and he has produced/sold approx 200 up to this point and still going.
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 8:07:54 AM EDT
I'd buy one if I could get it in 20mm [:D]
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 9:20:30 AM EDT
if it is a good upper, it would worth it. Just buy a used lower for it so you don't mess with your regular AR
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 9:45:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 2:16:34 PM EDT
Good point on the park. I had used zinc phosphate, gonna switch to manganese phosphate. BTW-what is the official shade of gray for an AR? (whole other topic) As far as the scope rail being part of the upper, I cant think of a single 50 that is that way. Sorry And as far as time on a machine to cur the whole thing: (1) Tink of the size of the stock bar that it would take. About a 50 lb piece of steel 2.125"x4.5"x12"x big $$. (2) once the outside is machined, you still have the inside to do. (3) The cost of machining the whole receiver out of one piece would cost about $1500.00, then a markup. The bolt handle, I have been working on that. It will either be forged or machined one piece. Dave
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 2:19:52 PM EDT
Good point on the park. I had used zinc phosphate, gonna switch to manganese phosphate. BTW-what is the official shade of gray for an AR? (whole other topic) As far as the scope rail being part of the upper, I cant think of a single 50 that is that way. Sorry And as far as time on a machine to cur the whole thing: (1) Think of the size of the stock bar that it would take. About a 50 lb piece of steel 2.125"x4.5"x12"x big $$. (2) once the outside is machined, you still have the inside to do. (3) The cost of machining the whole receiver out of one piece would cost about $1500.00, then a markup. The bolt handle, I have been working on that. It will either be forged or machined one piece. Dave
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 3:04:27 PM EDT
First, Dave, thanks for coming by to post about the Ferret upper. The more I hear about it, the more I think it's a great product. Waldo - you're a wanker. Just kidding! I have to agree with Dave a bit on this one - not everyone wants a $2,500 to $7,500 rifle. This has a very interesting niche, but may not have all the bells & whistles. In all seriousness, I just shelled out over $7K for a Barrett M82 (which is why I'm not interested in a Ferret right now). Ever seen their scope mounts? They're tack-welded on the receiver just like the Ferret. So is every other one I've seen. Dave - it would be nice to have it the same color as a lower. As funny as it sounds, I think your rifle would look much better with a solid AR-15 buttstock, too. I may have to pick one up next year (after the wife takes me off probation : ). Maybe you'll be up to #50 by then? Black Fox
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 3:24:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 3:29:13 PM EDT
Well, I'm not quite ready to buy a .50 yet, but I have one suggestion: how about a barrel longer than 18" and shorter than 36". 27" would split the difference, but 24" and 26" and nice, round numbers. It just seems to me that 18" doesn't take full advantage of the powder, while 36" would indeed be less accurate.
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 4:04:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2001 4:03:44 PM EDT by bwiese]
Folks - I'm with the above poster - I'd like to see an intermediate barrel length, maybe 22"/24"/26", dunno. Should get some more velocity, yet not as much bbl flex as a 36" barrel. And for those of you that don't wanna sacrifice a good AR lower (esp in the People's Republik of Kalifornia where AR lowers are banned and what you have is *all* you'll ever have), DPMS has their single-shot Kalifonia-legal AR lower. It has no mag well (it's cut upward and filled in) and would be just perfect for this application. Even if it gets totally thrashed you really haven't lost much - just get a new lower for $99 or so... Now keep it on the QT, boys but in Kalif - when you fill out the forms to buy one (4473, state form, 10 day wait, etc.) you'll really won't be on much of a database. (Records of regular rifle purchases aren't stored, or so they say.. even if they were, you're only listed as a single-shot 223 lower!) See this lower, as part of a complete AR at: http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=90&Product_ID=11072&CATID=493 Shoot straight! -Bill Wiese San Mateo, CA
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 4:42:24 PM EDT
You can buy those single shot recievers from Traders in SanLeandro. My buddy told me they have an entire rifle built on this lower.... I think it needs a belt fed upper :)-~
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 5:33:18 PM EDT
Wow, nice to see somebody came up with a bolt action 50BMG AR upper, I figured it was coming eventually. I had my own thoughts on how to make a shell holder type 50BMG upper that was similar to an LAR Grizzly rifle only the bolt was extended straight out the back of the upper receiver and straight out the back of the stock with a buttpad placed on the end, would make the recoil energy transfer straight through the stock if designed correctly and very little recoil energy would be deposited to the lower. But my favorite solution is that of using a DPMS california legal lower or maybe if somebody out there making 80% lowers could just make a few runs where the magazine well hasn't been milled or cut yet. Something that you'll never use for an AR15 use and that you really don't care if you punish till it turns to mush. Very interesting, it might just be something I'm willing to go for one of these days.
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 6:00:38 PM EDT
Great job on this thread BlackFox! Glad to see the response from Dave of Ferret50. I think alot of us all are thinking the same thing, and $1350 for a bolt action 50BMG delivered to the door is sweet.
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 6:06:26 PM EDT
Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but- I Likes It![:D] $1350 for a bolt action .50 upper, not one of those wacky Watson's weapons uppers-I'm saving for it starting now. BTW, the official color of the AR15 is a shade of light black[;D] Juggernaut
Link Posted: 8/10/2001 4:29:13 AM EDT
Thanks everyone! On the lower in the pics. It is a lower I borrowed and threw together with what I had. I made the buttstock. After having a DPMS single shot lower on order for several weeks it finally came in. I will be updating the pics on the site, hopefully this weekend. As far as a longer barrel, I have had requests for everything from 24" to 36", and everything in between. I cant stock every size like shoes, but anyone can order a custom length. OR, you can take the Ferret50 with the 18" barrel and call Lothar Walther and order what you want. He has the thread specs on file, and Woody is cool to deal with. As far as changing the barrel, it takes about 5 minutes. When I fire the Ferret50 with an 18" barrel, there is not a lot of flame. I dont think there is more than 10% of the powder unburned. Dave
Link Posted: 8/10/2001 3:29:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2001 3:39:57 PM EDT by Kaliburz]
Just making the single shot AR lower link active: This is the complete rifle [url]http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=90&Product_ID=11072&CATID=493[/url] Here are the Kali Lowers: [url]http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=90&CATID=494&ObjectGroup_ID=1266&OBS=80&Move=Next&Pcount=83&CurrentPage=8[/url] Stripped lower: [img]http://www.shooterstore.com/dpmsinc/images/LR-05V.jpg[/img] ID #: LR-05V Price: $179.95 Each [:D][}:D][:D] Why does this come to mind....... GROUP PURCHASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [}:D] Can't I dream....... "Krazy" Kaliburz
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