Very awesome thread!

I don't think I have the talent (or the patience) to build from planes.  I only have a few arfs..

Ultra stick 60
Pacific Aero Edge 540T

Both powered with SA-100s...  haven't flown the edge yet... can't wait!

Look forward to your progress reports and maiden flights!  Think you can find someone to video it and post it here?

The problem with CA (Superglue) is the stuff you get from discount stores etc is junk as it sets too fast.  This makes it brittle and is a poor choice for modeling work.

For my construction, I use Gorilla Glue for the bulk of the joints, using CA only to "tack" the joint.  I apply the Gorilla to both pieces to be joined, fit the parts in place and then "tack" the joint in three places.  GG foams when setting and is the toughest glue for this use.  It has decent gap-filling properties but its real value is in the vibration-proof nature.

It also glues some plastics very well and is the perfect glue on any foam.  The only down side is the speed of cure and the need to securely clamp the pieces. Using CA for tacking minimizes these problems.  But there is one other "problem" with GG.  It cannot be removed from your fingers.  The skin must wear off underneath the glue.  There is no solvent that removes set GG and using water etc will only make it set faster.  

It is also no good for fuel-proofing.  Epoxy is still the best for this application.  But GG is fuel proof

origionally posted by Patriot328: Think you can find someone to video it and post it here?

my technology-foo is week. my camera is supposed to be able to also take 15 seconds of video, but i have no clue about uploading it to anywhere, as i've never tried that feature before.
i may get a new memory stick/card/ whatever ,and try it out, but it's beyond me at this point.
seeing is this place is a gigantic braintrust, i'm sure i'll be able to get whatever help i need to make a short video possible.
well, i have to get my coffee sucked down, and hit up the hobby shop before work. i'll need probably 2 days or so for trim application, so no post updates till then.

Quoted: The problem with CA (Superglue) is the stuff you get from discount stores etc is junk as it sets too fast.  This makes it brittle and is a poor choice for modeling work. For my construction, I use Gorilla Glue for the bulk of the joints, using CA only to "tack" the joint.  I apply the Gorilla to both pieces to be joined, fit the parts in place and then "tack" the joint in three places.  GG foams when setting and is the toughest glue for this use.  It has decent gap-filling properties but its real value is in the vibration-proof nature. It also glues some plastics very well and is the perfect glue on any foam.  The only down side is the speed of cure and the need to securely clamp the pieces. Using CA for tacking minimizes these problems.  But there is one other "problem" with GG.  It cannot be removed from your fingers.  The skin must wear off underneath the glue.  There is no solvent that removes set GG and using water etc will only make it set faster.   It is also no good for fuel-proofing.  Epoxy is still the best for this application.  But GG is fuel proof

Is it a polyurethane glue?  If so, don't you need to dampen the pieces?

Quoted: Quoted: The problem with CA (Superglue) is the stuff you get from discount stores etc is junk as it sets too fast.  This makes it brittle and is a poor choice for modeling work. For my construction, I use Gorilla Glue for the bulk of the joints, using CA only to "tack" the joint.  I apply the Gorilla to both pieces to be joined, fit the parts in place and then "tack" the joint in three places.  GG foams when setting and is the toughest glue for this use.  It has decent gap-filling properties but its real value is in the vibration-proof nature. It also glues some plastics very well and is the perfect glue on any foam.  The only down side is the speed of cure and the need to securely clamp the pieces. Using CA for tacking minimizes these problems.  But there is one other "problem" with GG.  It cannot be removed from your fingers.  The skin must wear off underneath the glue.  There is no solvent that removes set GG and using water etc will only make it set faster.   It is also no good for fuel-proofing.  Epoxy is still the best for this application.  But GG is fuel proof Is it a polyurethane glue?  If so, don't you need to dampen the pieces?

Yes, its single component polyurethane.  Water is needed for a cure but balsa has plenty as does spruce and the other woods used in model aviation.
Water applied to the wood helps but so does CA!  And the kicker used for CA works on polyurethane.  

The best bond is without water because the gle seeps into the pores deeper and there is less foam out.  Let it cure overnight if you don't use water.  It takes about 30 minutes if you hit the joint after a few minutes for the glue to seep into the pores.

so.....i go to the hobbyshop to order a new roll of maroon covering, and the dude had a single roll tucked away, sweet.
i cover the bottom wing, hinge the aileron, and seal the hinge gap.

for the trim, i'll lay a sheet of glass across a barstool to the bar, lay the plans and a piece of posterboard on top of that, and then a halogen light beneath it.
the lines show through the posterboard, and i can get going with an idea and a metal yardstick to create templates.
get the templates cut out, and start cutting the trim covering.
hmmmm, the pic is a bit dark.....that's an argentine colt sistema 27 to go along with it.


i got the trim all cut out and started to put some pieces on, but i bailed out to take advantage of some good temperatures and break the engine in.
the breakin is pretty straitforward, progressively working from rich needle valve settings and low rpm's, to maxxed out and leaner/properly adjusted needle valve settings. the low end is barely perceptable to the rich side, the top end was peaked and backed off 3 hundred rpm. the engine will continue to break in for another couple of gallons. i only used about 14 tanks, a gallon-ish total.
here's a cool little gizmo, it's a photo-electric tachometer, no wires, no magetic pickups.
just hold it a few inches off the front of the prop, and it's sensitive enough to see the interuption in sunlight. you always add 2 zeros, so that 54 is really 5,400 rpm.


damn, i just looked at the pic, and it's a good safety reminder, as you can't even see that 14 by 6 master airscrew prop spinnin' along.
 
since i was at the postage stamp sized field i fly off, i might as well toss up a pic or two.
this is my preferred takeoff direction. there's a pretty good hump across, just before my truck, so i only really have about 18 ' wide by 100' long. i mow back to where i'm standing just to keep the chest-high weeds cleared for a decent approach.

there is old debris just below the surface, so trying to smoothen out the bumps and dips just exposes more shit to deal with.
it's not the best place, and due to those trees i have to bank out right away, but around here land is at a premium, and i'm fortunate to have a spot at all.

this shows the mound that dictates my glideslope. i was spoiled, i learned on a nice 100' by 300' field....at least i have a ton of actual flying space.


i finished up the trim, and then did the engine transplant from the test stand to the plane.
i put the fueling valve in, and the highspeed needle adjustment.


i put the landing gear on, and put the plane together to get the first pics of a mostly completed plane.
some, most, would argue to have a different color scheme on the bottom to aid in orientation in the air, but i did the bottom as a mirror image of the top.
orientation isn't a problem for me, unless i get too far away, and then you can't distinguisk ANY colors anyway, and a shape disolves into sticks. i've nearly lost planes flying that far away, but i try to avoid that like the plague.


the covering is just how i like it, although it looks so much better in natural sunlight. it's nice and simple, and easy to see in flight.
a can totally appreciate the complex covering jobs, with the mulitple colors, but this is all i'm after.
i'm not ever going to win any covering awards, and the 5 foot rule applies (my covering looks just great, as long as you don't get closer than 5 feet), but i'm happy with this.



and one from the back.


i still have to deal with the windscreen, the intrepid and fearless pilot, and the guts and linkages.
compared to my supersportster, the hog-bipe is looking a bit empty on the inside, but progress is being made.

Great progress!  Your covering skills are pretty good, I would say they are 3 foot good.  

Now on that flying field...should be fine for your models but it wouldn't work for my hotliner.

You are right about that 15" prop at 5400 RPM.  It is just like a lawnmower.  That must be an older Hangar 9 tach.  Yes, even us electron-powered flyers use them, along with ammeters.  Would you believe I get an 11x6 spinning at 8800 RPM with my hotliner?  And it only weighs 56 ounces!  Yes, more thrust than weight at static.  The prop unloads at speed but still enough thrust for 1800 FPM climb-outs and 80 MPH level flight fly-bys.  Dropping from ~800 AGL with motor off and prop folded is good for over 120 MPH.  Yes, it sounds like a bomb.

I know nothing about model planes but I am also really enjoying your posts.  Thanks for taking the time to post your build.  I also would never have the patience to do it.  Looks great.

Looking good gnp!


Question, though.. that's a 100, right?  Is a 14x6 a little on the thin side to run on that engine?  I see most people running 14x8s or 15x6s on it (of even 16x4W APCs for the 3D types).  I guess I could look in my manual somewhere, but then again, arfcom is quicker :)


I wish I had the skill/patience you have.....

Quoted: Looking good gnp! Question, though.. that's a 100, right?  Is a 14x6 a little on the thin side to run on that engine?  I see most people running 14x8s or 15x6s on it (of even 16x4W APCs for the 3D types).  I guess I could look in my manual somewhere, but then again, arfcom is quicker :) I wish I had the skill/patience you have.....

Yes, a 14x6 is a bit "light" for a 100 4-stroke but this was on the test stand where the prop never unloads.  I would suspect he goes to a 14x8 or greater for flight use.

Even full scale test cells use a trimmed prop, sometimes called a club.

Nice job sir, I've been building and flying for about 15 years.   I enjoy building more than flying actually. It's hard to find kits anymore.  Most of the hobby stores around here stock ARF's.

a little tip I learned the hard  way, I would put some small pieces of fuel tubbing on the clevises for the tail feathers. Those type will pop open sometimes.  I lost a plane because of this.

Good job, I haven't built one in about a year , you may have inspired a trip to the hobby store.  

Thanks for the pics.  

Art

Very nice job and thank you for sharing.  Maybe I should do that instead of chasing women, at least I'd have something in the end....wait I'd probably crash there too!

SoS

What is a good starter plane?  I had one built a long time ago, but never got to fly it.

i love planes. this was one of the greatest posts in a long time. i have two line controls.
one is a built up body. i remember the hot water bending over the balsa. awesome !
 i still have an os max engine.
havent messed with that stuff in 17 years.

Quoted: What is a good starter plane?  I had one built a long time ago, but never got to fly it.

Mad,

The question you ask would not only start up a new thread, it would start a new website (www.rcuniverse.com)!  I started with a hobbico superstar that was part of the prepackaged sell that included the radio and engine..  i taught myself, but I do think that is NOT the way to learn the hobby..!  I just happened to be able to do it because I knew how planes flew, I had delt with RC cars at a young age and was familiar with the peculiars of dealing with a car/plane coming at you, and I was just plainflat out lucky...

A superstar (www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEKF3**&P=0) will do just fine to learn on, but please please please get an instructor!!

Quoted: Quoted: What is a good starter plane?  I had one built a long time ago, but never got to fly it. Mad, The question you ask would not only start up a new thread, it would start a new website (www.rcuniverse.com)!  I started with a hobbico superstar that was part of the prepackaged sell that included the radio and engine..  i taught myself, but I do think that is NOT the way to learn the hobby..!  I just happened to be able to do it because I knew how planes flew, I had delt with RC cars at a young age and was familiar with the peculiars of dealing with a car/plane coming at you, and I was just plainflat out lucky... A superstar (www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEKF3**&P=0) will do just fine to learn on, but please please please get an instructor!!

If you want to learn on big, expensive planes, that is fine.  But practice makes perfect and any of the new electric beginner planes offer better return on the investment because you can fly nearly anywhere and with minimal setup.  Start with three channel, elevator, rudder and throttle.  Nothing less.  Get what is called a Parkflyer, these are slower planes that can be flown at say a soccer field (when no one else is around).  I taught my brother to fly in 30 minutes with one of these...of course he was just flying orbits but eventually he was doing figure eights and square patterns.  For landing, it is as easy as lining up into the wind and chopping the throttle until you see sink, then control the descent with the elevator until you touch down.

Go to www.hobby-lobby.com and look at Park flyers/trainers.  They have one for $120 that will get you ready for the bigger birds.  Hobby-Lobby USED to sell an excellent starter plane called the Wingo.  It was better than most since it used conventional radio equipment which could be used on your next plane.  It too is a pusher prop, making safer for the parks (prop was partially shielded, large, blunt nose).  The plane is still made in Germany and you might be able to find one.  Just get the gear drive system as it gives the plane much better performance with a much larger prop.  I could keep mine in the air for well over 20 minutes on a single charge.  With three battery packs and a remote charger, I could fly all day.

I'll agree with Keith that if you want to do it on your own, the electric park flyers are the way to go.  I still prefer the "traditional" glow trainers because, well just because.. smell sound.. just what I'm used to.  No logical reason, I suppose.. but I do recommend an instructor if you are going to attempt it.  If you are learning yourself, the best way would be the park flyers.  They are a lot of fun, very convienient, and will do the job.  No matter what you do, try to get some time on a simulator if you can.  If you can't afford an RC sim, even MS flight sim from the "tower view" will help!



To 69CougarXR7,

I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to fly your builds after you finsih them!  Of course, I can probably "re-kit" them so you can build them again, if you are interested.. :)

TAGGED!!

supper cool thread! I used to love building the old rubber band powered planes that were built like this as a kid.

To answer several questions...

The BIGGER the plane, the easier to fly... I guarantee.

There are several types of CA, and some are especially suited to using with balsa.  They are thicker than the watery type (Crazy Glue).  Hot Stuff and Great Plains both have a number of CA's for different purposes, read the labels.

I use mostly CA, epoxy for some areas (firewall, landing gear blocks, etc).  In fact, there are different types of epoxy I use.  5 minute epoxy is fine for some things, but will be more brittle.  Hobbypoxy II has a 45 min working time, several hours curing, but will be more flexible, better for high stress, high vibration areas.

I have one reservation about your servo installation... it appears you have the servos screwed to balsa... that will strip out.  Or is that a ply former they are screwed to?  They need to be screwed to ply, or in the provided tray, and the tray screwed to ply or hardwood.

Stuff some bits of foam around the tank so that it won't rub a hole against the ply edges, and a bit of faom aournd the wiring where it goes past the ply.

If you are going to mount your switch on the side, make sure it is opposite the exhaust.  Or you can mount the switch inside, and use the little Dubro kit which has a wire rod and knob on the outside.  Fuel residue can get in and gum up the contacts.

See where you have the nylon wing bolts threaded into the hardwood blocks?  A little trick... after you tap the threads in the hardwood, drip in some thin CA and let it dry.  Then retap.  That hardens the wood threads, makes them last longer.

Everything else looks good.

ok....the kit manufacturer assumed the radio manufacturer would give me a servo mounting plate, the radio people rightfully assumed the kit people would supply one, so, needless to say, i had to make my own.
since it's on the inside, it's all function, with not much thought to looks.
the servos are in, and the electrics temporarilly hooked up to establish the center positions.


i now need to get the mechanical neutral position of the control surfaces. a couple of popsicle sticks and clamps does the job.


next, attach one linkage end. i'll slide that little black collar piece up to keep the linkage connector from opening on me.
i'll color the linkage stuff black later, and a final wipedown will get rid of that nasty streaky looking shit on my covering.


once the center positions are established, i screw the connectors at the servos out to allign with the holes on the servo arms, and attach them.
after the linkages are in, i put my deflection meter on the surfaces, set to zero, and adjust the amount of control throw.
the book gives my the recommended guidelines, but i like to be a little heavy on my throws.



 
i need to put the wings on to do the ailron linkages, so i'll do the last of the fuselage stuff now.
i put the windscreen on, mounted the fearless pilot, cushioned and positioned the receiver and battery pack, mounted the on/off switch, and routed the antenna to the top of the fin.
this is also a good time to pull the valve covers and check my valve lash, .002 to .004".
the intake was good, and i had to close up on the exhaust a bit.

 
next, i mount the wings and do the linkage deal to the ailerons.

 
got the pilot to give a wave for the camera.


i have a balance machine, but the bipe configuration doesn't fit, so i had to use the tried and true fingertip method. it came out in range, but towards the nose-heavy side. i'll wait to see how she flies before adjusting the center of gravity. these are notorious for being pitch sensitive, so starting out balanced more to the nose is a good thing.
 i thought i'd put up a last pic (for now) of the builder with the plane, just to giove it perspective.
i'll have to resurect the thread later, after i get some pics of it in the air...about another 10 days or so.


last mention before going in for my 12 hrs.
1) yeah, i know i'm a fatbody
2) i can't respond from work, only view. surer than shit, someone will ask a question, and i can only read in frustration, not being able to answer.
3) all in all, it came out about $850, for those not into rc that are curious.

Looks really nice. I have always wanted to build one but i am afraid i would just crash it.

That plane must have a slimming effect because you don't look fat, especially for the AR15.com crowd

Good catch on the servo tray. I have used spruce strips over balsa.

Dude, that plane is awesome!  Time to go dive bomb a flock of geese.

Wow!
That is one awesome plane and definitley a 1+ for a finished project!

P.S.
I wish I had the patients and time you do as I only buy the RTF electrics....

In that more recent photo it looks like you have a ply servo tray... good!

The inner nylon tube on the pushrods can bend between the end of the outer sleeve and the clevis.  Support the outer sleeve just as close to the end as possible.  Make the inner pushrod slightly shorter than the outer sleeve.  Then use longer threaded rods to connect to the clevis.  This will give a pushrod setup that is much firmer, thus more precise control.

A better way, and one you can "retrofit" is to not use the nylon inner pushrod at all.  Use the outer sleeve and a long piece of .072" inner piano wire for elevator and rudder.  The problem is from winter to summer the trim will change as temperature changes.  And the nylon rods are just more "squishy" feeling.  The metal rods more precise.

I use the DuBro #173 pushrods threaded on the outside, and a clevis as you have done.  On the servo end I use DuBro #489 EZ Connectors.  Just push the unthreaded end of the pushrod through and tighten the screw.  I have never had one come loose.

Quoted: Looks really nice. I have always wanted to build one but i am afraid i would just crash it.

That is why is it best to learn to fly on a FRIEND'S plane...good luck finding friends

Better yet is to buy a real cheap almost ready to fly foamie parkflyer.  That way you won't be pissing everyone off at the flying field and you can fly at any empty soccer field.  I used to fly at a business park near work during my lunch hour since electrics start instantly.  

Can you put floats on a biplane?  You got a nice pond/lake in your backyard.

origionally posted by A  FREE  MAN:
"The inner nylon tube on the pushrods can bend between the end of the outer sleeve and the clevis. Support the outer sleeve just as close to the end as possible. Make the inner pushrod slightly shorter than the outer sleeve. Then use longer threaded rods to connect to the clevis. This will give a pushrod setup that is much firmer, thus more precise control."
 
well, i know you weren't being critical, and only offering a good suggestion, but i thought i'd toss up 2 pics to show that the plans tell me to build it like this.
since the servo swings through an arc, the rigiditty must allow at least a small amount of flex to accomodate that arc. heck, notice that the plans themselves show the rear rod coming in to the servo with a slight curve to it.


and the rear has the inner tube going even further than i have it.

 
but.....i love building, so making some minor changes is all cool with me.
i was hoping this pic would show the darkness of the threaded rod inside the inner pushrod tube, but it didn't come out too good.
i threaded the rod in all the way to the outer tube, so it's now even stronger than either alone.
i also only used the most rear bulkhead guides for the linkages, allowed them to be in a naturally relaxed position for allignment to the servo, and then braced them up, to actually remove a small amount of designed in curveature had i mounted them as the plans indicate.


i sunk the rear inner tube just out of sight, and have plenty of depth on the threaded rod. it's already been painted black and is drying. it just looks aesthetically pleasing, so that was a good call to do that.
flex is nill, and it's stronger than it looks....plenty for this plane.


since i had it all apart again, i adjusted the battery pack position and re-balanced the plane.
this is now truly ready to go, with the only thing remaining being trimming it out in flight.
damn new hamphire weather won't be good for a little while, and i also want to get some flights under my belt on my other aircraft before i maiden this, as i haven't flown since about thanksgiving.
i'll recruit some help to take pics when i do finally fly this.

oh, that float question....i'm too afraid of flipping a plane over on landing and ruining it, so i won't even try floats. jimmy buffet showed that it can wreck your day by doing that.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound critical.  I've flown R/C for 36 years now.  Just trying to help you wring out that last little bit of performance.

The way your linkages are at the rear is just fine.

I couldn't see how it was rigged at the front.  You want as little of the inner tube unsupported as possible, and you've done that.  Looks like you're good to go.

Another thing you can do, and you have to be careful here... fill the tail with expanding foam.  Don't do this all in one shot, just a little at a time, let it expand and harden before doing the next little bit.  This foam adds no appreciable weight, but surrounds the pushrod sleeves, holding them firmly in place.  If you foam it all at once, it will burst the fuselage.  Don't ask me how I know.  

It is all accumulative.  You have nice, tight hingeline, sealed, well made linkages, minimal slop.

Looks like you're good to go!

And BTW, that engine looks PERFECT for that plane!

Awesome!!!!   Make sure you give us plenty of pics of it in flight!!!