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Posted: 8/8/2001 12:37:47 PM EDT
I see FAL's for sale everywhere but have yet to see one that is a pre-ban??? Is there such a thing? Can you buy a pre-ban receiver? Are they really rare? If someone told you it was a pre-ban how do you tell? Any info would be greatly appriciated! BTW, for anyone who wants to bash me for inquiring about the FAL, my primary weapons are my pre-ban bushy's. I am just looking for somthing chambered 7.62 that's a battle rifle with evil features. Thanks in advance, Ybbeat
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 12:43:47 PM EDT
Yes, there were FAL's in the good old days. But they were pretty scarce and obscenely expensive even then. $1500 was the going rate if I recall. I know there were Argentine FALs. Not sure on the rest of the makes. Probability of finding one would be pretty slim.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 12:46:00 PM EDT
Ybbeat- Difference in pre and post ban semi-auto FN/FAL types usually just boils down to the pre's having genuine flash hiders, and the posts having muzzle brakes, fake flash hiders or bare muzzles.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:09:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:20:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2001 3:28:11 PM EDT by Wadman]
B27, You forgot about the other much sought after pre-ban feature; folding stocks. Two popular pre-ban FN models were 18" and 21" paras. All minty FN models sell for $2000 or more (50.00). The folding models (50.63 & 50.64) can run up to $3500.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:22:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2001 1:21:12 PM EDT by sigman]
Originally Posted By Ybbeat: I see FAL's for sale everywhere but have yet to see one that is a pre-ban??? Is there such a thing? Can you buy a pre-ban receiver? Are they really rare? If someone told you it was a pre-ban how do you tell? Any info would be greatly appriciated! BTW, for anyone who wants to bash me for inquiring about the FAL, my primary weapons are my pre-ban bushy's. I am just looking for somthing chambered 7.62 that's a battle rifle with evil features. Thanks in advance, Ybbeat
View Quote
I will not bash you for asking about pre-ban FALs' however I will bash you(as I assume any 5th grade english teacher would) on the distinction between possesive and plural apostrophies. pre-ban bushy's =possesive...."My bushy's flash hider." pre-ban bushys' = possesive plural...... - My pre-ban bushys' flash hiders." Pre-ban bushys = plural=====CORRECT Sorry,could'nt resist. P.S. I sure would look stupid if I overlooked a mistype right now! [:D] Your question, Yes,there are......but very expensive springfield made a sporter copy if I remember right,they are probaly the cheapest/most common. Hope that helps Edited----caught before someone found my mistake!
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:26:14 PM EDT
Most of your true pre-ban FAL's will have FN Herstal markings. Some will not. I believe there are a few Argetinian rilfes that are pre-ban rifles. True FN marked para models bring major league $$, $3500 +. Buyer beware on so called pre-ban guns. A lot of the post model guns will have the brand reciever abbreviated as the prefix of the serial #.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:38:48 PM EDT
If i'm not mistaken, Der has a pre-ban right not for a [i]VERY[/i] reasonable price... If not, just make sure to avoid FAL's put together by some redneck in his garage who knows nothing about FAL's... That includes CAI, or anything on a Hesse receiver... [url]www.azexarms.com[/url] <~~~ Best FAL's out there. Ask anyone. XOXOXOXO ch McBratty (LMAO!!!!!!! That was fun!! [:D])
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:40:53 PM EDT
Wadman- You're right! I forgot all about the evil, deadly folding stocks!
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:45:27 PM EDT
Yb, you bet there are pre-ban FAL's and some very, very fine rifles. First let me suggest you stay away from anything labeled as an "Argentine FAL." Far too many parts-guns posing as Argentine and takes someone pretty knowledgeable to certify this FAL. Now to the real FAL's - those of FABRIQUE NATIONALE, Herstal, Belgium - All of these are battle rifles: If you are to own just one the one to own is the FN 50.00 L.A.R. - the assault rifle version that is the full auto version - may be the finest battlefield rifle ever made. The semi-auto version is only superb ! Look to pay about $2200.00 plus for one in 97% condition. This response would be far too long were I to attempt to list all the various variations with explanations but here are the mod numbers - 50.63 18" Para, 50.64 21" Para, 50.41 synthetic butt-stock, 50.42 wood butt-stock. Then there is the "G" series - big bucks but mighty fine and finally the FNC series with fixed stock and folding stock, 16" and 18" barrels-the FNC's are in .223 and have no attraction for me. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:48:24 PM EDT
Yes. The fixed stock versions have no practical advantage over the fixed stock versions available now. The folders do, if you want to pay a premium price. Then again you'd be able to buy 2-3 of the existing fixed stock versions. My opinions of course. Talyn
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 3:32:55 PM EDT
Anothergene, Which pin is it that, when removed, allows FA? Is it the one that prevents your selector (assuming it's an FA selector) from being moved to the FA position? Sounds like you owned a searcut FAL complete with safety sear, FA selector, and FA bolt carrier.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 4:00:52 PM EDT
Don't forget about the Joe Poyer imported Australian L1A1s and L2A1s, some really nice rifles. IIRC, the only fully assembled pre-ban Argentine FALs were imported by National Arms Import.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 4:02:17 PM EDT
Real Belgium FN FALs are preban. The Springfield Armory SAR-48 is the pre-89 FAL version, while the SAR-4800 is the post-89 version. As noted, Argentine preban FALs, but you’ll need to know what you’re doing. There are also other mfg that qualify as preban, but like the Argentine models, you’ll want to do your research before you buy one of these. RK
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 4:12:51 PM EDT
[img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1157297&a=11109695&p=46233653&Sequence=0&res=high[/img] SAR-48 with SUIT sight. This gun may be a Belgian G-1 kit on a pre-ban SAR-48 receiver. When I get it back from my Brother, I'll have someone take a look at it (more specifically, the markings on it). Pre-Ban FAL's: Belgian Guns--50.xx and G Series. The G-series are generally more expensive ($2500+), the 50.00 are the "standard" version about $2k, the 50.42 are the HBar version, and the 50.63 and .64 are the para versions (carbine length and standard length, respectively). Joe Poyer (and at least one other individual) imported real Commonwealth (inch pattern) L1A1's. Very expensive collector's items--$4k+ Argentine guns--{avoid those marked SAC Latta, SC, as they were post import ban, and imported as separate receivers and uppers, and re-assembled later}. These National Arms (pre-ban Argy. guns) are about $1800. SAR-48's Springfield Armory imported factory guns (very few pre-ban receiver's only sold) $1500 Armscorp (Baltimore, MD) receivers are pre-ban (below a certain serial #--you need to check this carefully) and were assembled with some different parts kits--$1200 +/- Onyx Arms receiver guns (I believe these are pre-ban guns, frequently with Israeli HBar parts kits--some AssHole dealer who is at the Lake County Gunshow in IL, is trying to convince people that it is an "Onyx Arms Imported Belgian gun and worth $3000" when it is a parts gun worth about $1400. There may be a few other pre-ban oddball guns. Post Ban's: Century Sporter's Century Stg-58's Century L1A1's SAR-4800's DSA guns. Basically any gun built on a DSA, IMBEL, Hesse, Entreprise receiver is post ban, regardless of the features. These guns (if in post-ban form) vary in price from $500 to $1200, depending on the parts kit use, assembly quality and refinish, and who did the work. Guns to Avoid-- Argentine guns marked SAC inside the mag well. South African (not assembled by Century) R-1's--these guns were illegal across the border from Canada imports. When Canada changed it's laws, some of the rifles made it across the border to US gunshows. It was illegal to import the South African guns up until the '89 ban. And, finally, any gun you are not sure of--find an RKI. There are almost as many fradulent "Pre-ban" FAL's (people just build the gun from the kit on a receiver and don't worry about putting US parts or removing the flash hider from the gun) as there are "Pre-ban" AR's that were made in the last 7 years. AFARR
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 5:21:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 5:34:04 PM EDT
AFARR, That looks a whole lot like a G1 kit. These were manufactured by FN for W. Germany. They have the STG-58 style handguards but used a non-threaded barrel and a detachable flash suppressor. BTW, about 10,000 G1 kits are now available (approx. $125).
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 6:25:32 PM EDT
Best source for FAL info is the FAQ's at L1A1.com (formerly fnfal.com). For example, all the amnesty "G" series belgian guns are listed by serial number in a BATF document. You can find that document through the FAL board.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 7:17:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2001 7:13:00 PM EDT by AFARR]
Wadman, I have heard the same thing from several people now. It probably is a Belgian G-1 kit. It was put together pre-ban, and according to some on the L1A1 board there were a few (possibly to Springfield employees) SAR-48 receivers sold separately (not as complete rifles) about the same time that some G-1 kits were coming into the country. There have not been G-1 kits for years, but they are high quality stuff. It is about an 85% gun--honest use showing mostly on the wood (no deep gouges). I may eventually get it refinished. BTW--the SUIT matches the gun as the "traditional" sight for it, but the newer generation (ELCAN, ACOG, etc.) of combat optics is FAR superior. That inverted HUGE Spike as an aiming point in the SUIT takes quite a bit of getting used to. AFARR
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 5:17:52 AM EDT
Thanks guys for all the responses!! I have learned allot! I must say that pre-ban ARs are much easier to figure out! Ybbeat
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 7:07:53 AM EDT
Argentine preban [img]http://photos.onebigvillage.com/pubimage.asp?id_=38926[/img]
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