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Posted: 1/21/2006 6:28:07 AM EDT
I'm looking for a good 308 truck/back country rifle, I have had H&K's, FAL's and M1A's while excellent rifles they are big and bulky, What are your thoughts on DS Arms Para/Congos? How about AR based 308's, anybody have experince with Fulton Arms SOCOM?
Thanks,
Mike
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:32:14 AM EDT
M1A Socom with a 10 round mag.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:26:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 7:27:45 AM EDT by GreyGhost]
It's hard to beat the FAL platform.Like you I've got a HK91,AR10,M1A and an izzy FAL.Mine all function flawlessly.It would be hard to choose one over another but since you don't have a AR10 that's what I'd get in a carbine.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 11:19:58 AM EDT
Why not a 16" FAL with the "para" folding stock? I've got one and it fits fine in a Nike tennis racquet bag.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 11:30:59 AM EDT
If you are looking for something compact the FAL 16" PARA is the best way to go.

Or

PTR-91k 16" A3. Doesn't cost as much as the DSA FAL. And mags are $1. Plus you are used to a HK91.

Or

DPMS AP4 .308 16". Priced right at just over a thousand dollars. Mags are more expensive than a HK 91 or FAL.

The M1A Socom is ok. If you like it.....great. But lay a HK91,DPMS AP4, 16" FAL and a M1A Socom next to each other and the M1A is the longest.

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 11:37:28 AM EDT
A $1500.00 truck gun? You could find a used Remington pump or semi for a lot less.fwiw
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 11:39:28 AM EDT
Gibbs No.7 Jungle Carbine
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 11:46:48 AM EDT
You do know we cant have loaded long guns in vehicles in the state of WA, loaded mags are ok, but they cant be in the rifle. Only pistols can be carried in a vehicle loaded with a valid CCL. It's not an anti-gun law, it's an anti-hunting from the road law. IIRC disabled persons can get a permit hunting from vehicles.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:16:06 PM EDT
Yes I know Washington is anal what we do is have the rifle ready and a full mag close together all you need to do is grab the rifle, slam the mag in cock and rock. I have a very good friend who is a Game Warden so I have discussed the laws of what and what not. Though the reason I said truck gun/back country gun is we have been up a few times in the high back country only to come face to face with a cougar. Last summer a friend of mine was up in the back country only to see a grizzly about a 100 yards off. And no dont beleave the news the bearsand cougars are not all up in the Pasayten or Sawtooth Wildeness areas. Now dont get me wrong I love the 5.56 but sometimes you need just a little bigger. I'm leaning towards the DSArms Congo/Para, I have had the HK91s and do like them but I like how you make the FAL shorter and I never have like the retractable stock on the 91 series, never did figure out why is wasnt designed like the MP5/HK93 series. I dont have any experiance with the PTR series how are they?
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:24:53 PM EDT
AR10 is nice. Carbine in 16", collapsible stock. It's an AR15 which is fully grown. (That's technically incorrect as the AR10 came first). An A4 configuration gives you a flattop for easy scope mounting, or you can put on whatever iron sights you prefer, and change them back again very easily. I have both the 16 and 20" uppers, and probably will sell the 20, I like the 16 that much.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:26:43 PM EDT
does it have to be semi-auto? remmy makes a good .308 model 700, 7 or if you can find one a 600
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:28:15 PM EDT
I love FALs.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:30:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
I'm leaning towards the DSArms Congo/Para, I have had the HK91s and do like them but I like how you make the FAL shorter and I never have like the retractable stock on the 91 series, never did figure out why is wasnt designed like the MP5/HK93 series.



The DSA Congo/Para would work great.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:32:01 PM EDT
DSA STG58 para. I'm not sure if the PARA has the bipod, but if it does, take it off. Best bang for the buck---Steyr FAL parts on a DSA reciever. Chromed chamber with an unplated bore, but made from German steel and it is indeed tougher than hell and without a doubt the most accurate FAL barrel of them all.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:33:19 PM EDT
8rds of 30-06,,tanker Garand
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:33:41 PM EDT
If you are worried about bears and cougars, I'd suggest a larger caliber than .308. Get a bolt action and a lower power scope. Me and my father have both had really good luck with Rem 700 BDL rifles. They shoot accurate, are reliable, and come in a very wide range of clalibers. 7mm Rem Mag is a good one.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:05:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:14:23 PM EDT
I allready have a 300 win mag remington 700 and also 1 in 308 wanted a smaller package
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:15:13 PM EDT
Oh, by the way, check out dsarms.com and ck out the STG58A rifles for more info.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:17:40 PM EDT
What about those FN patrol rifles - bolt action 308s? I think they're pretty cheap from CDNN.

Just a thought.

G
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:27:06 PM EDT

If you are going to carry this rifle very far and want a gun that will kill the critters you are talking about might I suggest a gun that has proven itself over and over again. The lever action 30-30. It is a 308 out to 100 yards. It is light, short, accurate, and cheap. Another choice is the lever in 44 mag. They are not fancy but will handle biz all day. A lever with a peep rear sight is all you need 90% of the time.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:28:31 PM EDT
Browning BAR. I bet you can find a nice used one. A new one should run about $800

www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=002B&cat_id=031&type_id=008
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:43:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brentwal:
You do know we cant have loaded long guns in vehicles in the state of WA, loaded mags are ok, but they cant be in the rifle. Only pistols can be carried in a vehicle loaded with a valid CCL. It's not an anti-gun law, it's an anti-hunting from the road law. IIRC disabled persons can get a permit hunting from vehicles.



Just a question here about the loaded mags...I thought (cant site a source right now) that in WA a loaded mag constituted a loaded rifle. That is, the mag isnt in the rifle just in the vehicle along w/ the rifle. Ill see what I can find but I thought this was the case.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:40:42 PM EDT
By magazine, they mean a permanently attached unit, i.e. the tube of a shotgun or lever gun, or the magazine built in like a bolt gun. At least that's my understanding.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:51:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:56:04 PM EDT
what about a saiga 308? Cheap yet functional.. I don't own one but I would never leave a gun in a car unattended, but if I were to it would be a cheaper gun.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:15:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 3-gun:
A $1500.00 truck gun? You could find a used Remington pump or semi for a lot less.fwiw

+1

I think a Mosin-Nagant 44 or 38 is a better truck gun. I can't keep my fine semi-autos out in the truck waiting to get stolen.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:23:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 7:26:44 PM EDT by slash-5]


Reasons for a FAL:

A Fal (unlike some other 7.62 MBR's):

Has cheap mags. You can get them for $4. (Unlike a M1A1 or an AR-10)
Has a charging handle on the LEFT so you can maintain a firing grip during mag changes (unlike an M1A1)
Has a charging handle placed for easy access (Unlike a HK91)
Has a bolt hold open that activates after your last shot (Unlike an HK91)
Is ergonomically friendly
Does not shit where it eats (unlike an AR-10)
Is not front heavy (like an HK91)
Is very easy to clean (easier than every other platform I have tried)
Is easy to take down
Is available with a forward assist (I have two with this feature)
Is available with real sights (Check out DSA's Para sight. It takes an AR15 aperture)
Has an adjustable gas system for different loads (I love this feature)
Parts are cheap
Furniture is cheap
Barrels are cheap
Actually works well in a shorter package (I have two)
Will feed anything
Recoil is very mild (unlike my HK91)
Is the most reliable weapon system I have ever used
Has been used in 90+ countries around the globe...

ETC.

Do not accept second best. Do it right the first time.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:27:25 PM EDT
If you're really worried about bears or things that bite get a model 70 in .375 H&H or a .458 Win Mag. A safari sling makes it easy to carry, and the controlled round feed will guarantee you no jams!

This occured to me when another poster mentioned a bolt action. If you get one you may's well get a BIG one or at least one that shoots a BIG cartridge. I'll take a .375 or .458 any day over a 7 Mag if I'm facing a bear!

And they stop 2 legged attackers pretty darn well too!

Otherwise the paratrooper type FAL's or AR 10 carbine would be a darn good compromise. Not as much stopping power, but a hell of a lot more shots!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 8:42:54 PM EDT
I want a do all gun for up there sometimes a coupla 308s on target is all you need vs a big 300 + that is big and long. I'm looking for compactness I have enough bolt guns a 223's I' looking for a small compact 308 semi, and Slash-5 you nailed it, I have been kicking the FAL idea around plus I want to be able to use a dot sight night vision and or flashlight and the FAL really does fit the ticket.
Mike
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 9:35:35 PM EDT
I vote for the FAL with short gas system 16" barrel and para stock. If you get one, get the DSA lower it makes it much lighter. The FAL is best for all the reasons. The biggest being they stay very clean and you have nearly no carbon build up in the action. Also easier to break down for cleaning and there are simply more parts for it than anything else.

However HK91s are the best for fun factor and the shorter stock makes it better for sholdering quickly for CQB while wearing armor. I find the standard FAL stock to be too long. You can take the recoil pad off and it helps alot but it doesn't shoulder as well. I find the HK91 collapsable stock with rolled butt to be very uncomfortable. If you get a collapsable get an ACE folding stock or the original straight collapsable stocks. Also they get dirty easy and are a pain to clean but can still function well no matter how dirty they get. H91s are also rough on brass so it's not a good idea to reload for them. The fluted chamber also can cause problems. It's easier for an FAL to be headspaced and reliably feed both 7.62 NATO and .308. The PTR-91 seems to do good with .308 but it is really front heavy with the heavy barrel. If they made them with standard barrels I would have probably bought one because they are very nicely made.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 9:58:33 PM EDT
I really like my M1a SOCOM, it's both solid and reliable though maybe a bit bulkier than what you might like
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 10:17:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 10:21:52 PM EDT by JB_Metal]
M1A Socom or Scout! Nothing better than an M1A. If you run out of bullets, it's strong enough to beat the bear with.

Scout
Socom

I'm expecting a Scout soon, I can't wait.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 10:35:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brentwal:
By magazine, they mean a permanently attached unit, i.e. the tube of a shotgun or lever gun, or the magazine built in like a bolt gun. At least that's my understanding.



Yup, just got a chance to look it up and you are correct (see 5 below):

RCW 77.15.460
Loaded firearm in vehicle — Unlawful use or possession — Penalty.


(1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if:

(a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and

(b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.

(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if the person negligently shoots a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway.

(3) Unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle or unlawful use of a loaded firearm is a misdemeanor.

(4) This section does not apply if the person:

(a) Is a law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm and is on duty within the officer's respective jurisdiction;

(b) Possesses a disabled hunter's permit as provided by RCW 77.32.237 and complies with all rules of the department concerning hunting by persons with disabilities.

(5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 12:17:44 PM EDT
As long as the clip is not in the firearm while the clip is loaded in the vehicle you are good to go, I have been checked a few times when they have random checks out in the back country over here they have off road sheriffs who stop you to make their contact quota. A few weeks back I was also stopped for a taillight out by the WSP who also checked my AR said loaded clips were ok, just leave them out of the rifle untill we leave the vehicle.
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