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Posted: 1/20/2006 12:48:12 AM EDT


www.aero-news.net/news/military.cfm?ContentBlockID=da2a0625-a619-4335-95a8-a3566abaec3b&Dynamic=1

Air Force Official Tells Developers To Get Used To Noise

Fri, 20 Jan '06

Base, Builders Make Concessions For Housing Project

In a preemptive measure to avoid a future NIMBY battle, Air Force officials laid down the facts for developers planning to build a 13,000-acre residential development along the south edge of Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, NM: the base operates helicopters and F-16s, and occasionally sets off bombs. They all make noise... and really, they were there first.

Officials made their case at a city council meeting involving developers planning the Mesa del Sol master-planned residential community. The development is expected to bring as many as 100,000 residents to the southwestern edge of a massive complex that is also home to the Albuquerque International Sunport.

Fact is, the base was there first (since 1941)... but that's not to say the base isn't willing to make some concessions in the interest of keeping the peace, however.

The Albuquerque Tribune reports Kirtland agreed to cease training for cargo drops and night-vision flights, as they need to be conducted at less than 500 ft AGL. Cool for spotters, perhaps... but probably less than ideal for a family with a newborn.

The base has found other locations for those operations, according to Col. Terrence A. Feehan, installation commander at Kirtland.

But the base will likely need noise easements for helicopter training and ordnance testing within the bases' borders -- and that will likely be a nuisance for future residents at Mesa del Sol.

Officials also plan to ask developers to use light-control devices on the neighborhood's street lights, to prevent light pollution from interfering with the facility's Starfire Optical Range. The range was placed at Kirtland's southeast corner specifically to avoid such lighting, and base officials told the council relocating it to an even darker area could cost upwards of $300 million.

Feehan stressed to the council, however, that he supports the development -- and ForestCity Covington, developer of Mesa del Sol, supports the base's position and requests.

"We've reached a compromise that's best for both of us," said company COO Mike Daly.

Now that the potentially explosive NIMBY situation has been diffused, base officials and developers now only have to worry about... another potentially explosive situation: the possibility of construction crews finding unexploded WWII-era ordnance in the once-desolate area.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 1:43:53 AM EDT
Soon after the Viet Nam war ended a train carrying live bombs caught fire. For a couple of days the bombs were exploding in the Arizona desert, miles from the nearest homes and businesses. About a decade or so ago some of the unexploded bombs from the fire were found in a new housing development.

It would be very interesting to see just how much ordnance will be found.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 1:56:48 AM EDT
Screw the dipshits who move next to a base and expect it to be quiet. If it were not for Kirtland AFB/Sandia, Albuquerque would some dot on the map.

I work for Robins AFB, no one complains here about the F-15's that break the sound barrier daily over the town or the J-STARS that are always flying all hours of the day over the town. Without the 12,000+ civilian jobs on the base, Warner Robins would be a Ghost town and Macon would seriously be in more trouble than its in.

On the UXO's, I wouldn't be surpised if there is some nasty shit buried out there. Hope they go out with a geiger counter and Alpha meter.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:16:06 AM EDT
If you're going to move RIGHT NEXT TO an AFB then bitch about it, you're too stupid to have a family anyways.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:20:27 AM EDT
+1

Move next to an airforce base/airport, expect some noise.

In Michigan, we have a law called "The right to Farm Act" which protects farmers from this kind of encroachment. Its a "Who was here first law."

It also protects gun ranges.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:39:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf: Officials also plan to ask developers to use light-control devices on the neighborhood's street lights, to prevent light pollution from interfering with the facility's Starfire Optical Range. The range was placed at Kirtland's southeast corner specifically to avoid such lighting, and base officials told the council relocating it to an even darker area could cost upwards of $300 million.
Leee-yooo-tenant! Why did you drop ordnance on that neighborhood?
I'm sorry Cap'n, I was confoo-zed by 'dem 'purty lights.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:42:51 AM EDT
I wouldn't mind the noise at all. In fact, I love fighter aircraft noise. It's just another one of those sounds I associate with FREEDOM!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:53:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
Screw the dipshits who move next to a base and expect it to be quiet.



Well, that's a nice sentiment. Just wait for a few people to move in, and a few attorneys get involved. Then a few more people move in and a few more attorneys get involved.

Let's not forget the EPA. I'm sure they will be brought in.

All it takes is one three-toed spotted testicle desert rat to shut down the entire base. (Just ask the Marines)
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:43:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By efpeter:
Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
Screw the dipshits who move next to a base and expect it to be quiet.



Well, that's a nice sentiment. Just wait for a few people to move in, and a few attorneys get involved. Then a few more people move in and a few more attorneys get involved.



So very true. Good friend of mine is a professional dog breeder/trainer and does all the shows. When she bought her house years ago there was noone around her.. She had a beautiful set up for breeding and training dogs. All was great until years later people built next to her and started to complain about her dogs and the barking. They all knew upfront that she had a full time kennel. She lost and has since relocated.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:52:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By efpeter:


All it takes is one three-toed spotted testicle desert rat to shut down the entire base. (Just ask the Marines)

No shit. Camp Pendleton has alot of training areas that can't be used because of this bullshit. Fucking kangaroo rats.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:45:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
I wouldn't mind the noise at all. In fact, I love fighter aircraft noise. It's just another one of those sounds I associate with FREEDOM!



I agree. I lived next to a elevated train for years in Brooklyn. Went by so often you didn't hear it anymore.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:52:30 AM EDT
This happens every day at the Navy air base in Virginia Beach. There used to be a "Red Line" that you couldn't build within. That line has been shrinking for years and now people are bitching about the noise.

Local government is on the homeowner's side, because if they can get the Navy to stop flying or cut back, they can get more homes built and collect more property taxes. Asshats! Freedom ain't free.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:54:29 AM EDT
It would be simpler in the long run if the US would seize the property and end the problem.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:07:46 AM EDT
Go visit Ft Bliss sometime. They have housing developments with UXO areas BETWEEN THE HOUSES. Big empty lots with a UXO sign every 50 feet. No fences.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:08:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 7:08:41 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]
like they say, "excuse the noise, it's the sound of freedom"
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:11:16 AM EDT
Another "we were here first" story:

My dad works in the construction industry. An asphalt plant has been in a town for years. A bunch of houses popped up and they complained. The construction co. said that they(the plant) was there first, so they told the homeowners to STFU basically.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:11:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DAC_2141:
+1

Move next to an airforce base/airport, expect some noise.

In Michigan, we have a law called "The right to Farm Act" which protects farmers from this kind of encroachment. Its a "Who was here first law."

It also protects gun ranges.



Same in MA.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:20:38 AM EDT
It's like the asshats that get tired of city life and decide to move to the country. No sooner do they move in and they complain and try to get the sawmill down the road closed because of the noise and trucks passing by (never mind that the mill has been there for over 100 years). Or they complain about the smell from the pig farm that has been there for generations.

Another example...

I've been working out of the same fire station for 21 years now (the station has been there since the 1940s). It's located in a heavily populated area; apartment buildings and condos abutt the station.

Over the years neighbors have complained and/or asked us not to use the sirens when we leave the station (FWIW, we don't use them at unreasonable hours or when there's no traffic).

Didn't these shitheads think about that before they moved in? Did they really not see the building across the street with the 3 huge bay doors and 3 big red shiny trucks?

We had one incident where a couple was looking to buy a condo across the street and they were actually
clued in enough to come in the station and inquire the person manning the watch desk about the noise (the real estate agent was with them).

The guy on the desk told them the truth and explained that this was a busy station, and that for safety reasons, we always flipped on the sirens and lights before exiting the door. The only time we didn't use the sirens was usually between midnight and 6:00 AM. The couple thanked the guy and left with the agent.

About an hour later, the real estate agent came back by himself and blew-up on the guy at the desk for telling his clients the truth.




Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:27:12 AM EDT
They moved near a base, what did they expect? It's the sound of freedom.

Max
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:28:13 AM EDT

Air Force Official Tells Developers To Get Used To Noise

+1

They knew well ahead of time. I see the argument about property taxes.

I heard a story one time about how the local folk were complaining about: the military'this', the military 'that', blah, blah, blah

Well the base commander decided to pay everyone in gold coin for a short time, as the local cash registers filled up, the locals got real quiet.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:43:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
It's like the asshats that get tired of city life and decide to move to the country. No sooner do they move in and they complain and try to get the sawmill down the road closed because of the noise and trucks passing by (never mind that the mill has been there for over 100 years). Or they complain about the smell from the pig farm that has been there for generations.

Another example...

I've been working out of the same fire station for 21 years now (the station has been there since the 1940s). It's located in a heavily populated area; apartment buildings and condos abutt the station.

Over the years neighbors have complained and/or asked us not to use the sirens when we leave the station (FWIW, we don't use them at unreasonable hours or when there's no traffic).

Didn't these shitheads think about that before they moved in? Did they really not see the building across the street with the 3 huge bay doors and 3 big red shiny trucks?

We had one incident where a couple was looking to buy a condo across the street and they were actually
clued in enough to come in the station and inquire the person manning the watch desk about the noise (the real estate agent was with them).

The guy on the desk told them the truth and explained that this was a busy station, and that for safety reasons, we always flipped on the sirens and lights before exiting the door. The only time we didn't use the sirens was usually between midnight and 6:00 AM. The couple thanked the guy and left with the agent.

About an hour later, the real estate agent came back by himself and blew-up on the guy at the desk for telling his clients the truth.







Real Estate agents. My least favorite people behind DWI lawyers and car salesmen.

I had a complaint filed on me by one because some house shopping couple asked if there was any crime in the area. Since I was standing crime scene watch on a murder/suicide I told them so.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:43:58 AM EDT
The same stuff is happening with shooting ranges.

People move in and sue to shut them down.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:24:56 AM EDT
I live next to the ranges at Quantico and have no problem.
Then again, I love the pitter-patter of machine gun fire.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:29:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FatMan:
This happens every day at the Navy air base in Virginia Beach. There used to be a "Red Line" that you couldn't build within. That line has been shrinking for years and now people are bitching about the noise.

Local government is on the homeowner's side, because if they can get the Navy to stop flying or cut back, they can get more homes built and collect more property taxes. Asshats! Freedom ain't free.



Then they suddenly wonder why they're on the next BRAC list.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:05:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
The same stuff is happening with shooting ranges.

People move in and sue to shut them down.



One trick they have up their sleeve is that they'll try to get the EPA and/or whatever state/local equivalent to come in and shut the range down due to "lead contamination" issues. Even if they don't succeed in shutting the range down, it ends up costing the facility $$$$$ to clean things up or install protective measures.

The VPC even offers advice on taking the contamination route...

http://www.vpc.org/studies/leadcont.htm
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