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Posted: 1/19/2006 4:54:55 AM EDT
Molon Labe!

The 300

Based on the epic graphic novel by Frank Miller, 300 is a ferocious retelling of the ancient Battle of Thermopylae in which King Leonidas (Gerard Butler) and 300 Spartans fought to the death against Xerxes and his massive Persian army. Facing insurmountable odds, their valor and sacrifice inspire all of Greece to unite against their Persian enemy, drawing a line in the sand for democracy. The film brings Miller’s (Sin City) acclaimed graphic novel to life by combining live action with virtual backgrounds that capture his distinct vision of this ancient historic tale.

Warner Bros. Pictures Presents in Association with Legendary Pictures and Virtual Studios, a Mark Canton / Gianni Nunnari Production, 300. Directed by Zack Snyder (Dawn of the Dead) , the film stars Gerard Butler (Phantom of the Opera), Lena Headey (The Brothers Grimm), David Wenham (The Lord of the Rings trilogy), Vincent Regan (Troy), Rodrigo Santoro (Love Actually) and Dominic West (The Forgotten). Gianni Nunnari (The Departed), Mark Canton, Bernie Goldmann (Land of the Dead) and Jeffrey Silver (Training Day) are the producers. Snyder and Kurt Johnstad adapted the graphic novel by Frank Miller and Lynn Varley, with a previous draft of the script by Michael Gordon. The executive producers are Frank Miller, Deborah Snyder, Craig J. Flores, Thomas Tull, William Fay and Benjamin Waisbren. The creative behind-the-scenes team is led by director of photography Larry Fong, production designer James Bissell, editor Bill Hoy and costume designer Michael Wilkinson. Music is by Tyler Bates.







Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:01:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 5:01:58 AM EDT by TimJ]
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:03:08 AM EDT
Graphic novel.

Is that contemporary vernacular for comic book?

­

<­BR>

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:14:05 AM EDT
I can't wait till it is released....check out the production video on the website.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:27:08 AM EDT
The Spartans were fascist, not "democratic"!

Their society had quite a few similarities to Nazism. Large scale slavery, killing of unfit children, subserviance to the state, etc.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:30:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:37:56 AM EDT
Wasn't the Persian death toll in the 20,000+ category by the time it was over?

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:39:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By btr:
The Spartans were fascist, not "democratic"!

Their society had quite a few similarities to Nazism. Large scale slavery, killing of unfit children, subserviance to the state, etc.



Greek Society is seen as the foundation of all western democratic governments. The Spartans were a little extreme.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:46:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TimJ:

Originally Posted By btr:
The Spartans were fascist, not "democratic"!

Their society had quite a few similarities to Nazism. Large scale slavery, killing of unfit children, subserviance to the state, etc.



Not democracy (mobocracy) like we know it, but it was still the seed that got us to where we are.

Fascists are like commies with privately owned, gov't directed industry and usually a dictator. They were what they were. Citizens voted and had a voice in government, that's what I was referring to-I guess I expected too much from the audience.



That's a common problem here at times.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:48:21 AM EDT
Zack Snyder's project after 300 is Rainbow Six
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:55:20 AM EDT
The Spartan governmental system is what inspired the Roman republican system and as everyone here should know our own system of goverment basis itself off of the Roman system.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:02:54 AM EDT
That one's going on the must-see list.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:13:47 AM EDT
Communist, fascist, whatever, it doesn't change the historical fact that this story is one for the ages, that Frank Miller's graphic novel "300" was simply pant-wettingly amazing, the preproduction stills in this thread look like a VERY faithful recreation of the artist's vision, and that the story gives you chills when you realize what those 300 men did and what they sacrificed.

Put that in your Funk and Wagnalls.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:28:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Graphic novel.

Is that contemporary vernacular for really bigcomic book?




fixed.

They're an investment, dammit!
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:30:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:34:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ASNixon:
Wasn't the Persian death toll in the 20,000+ category by the time it was over?




Indeed. IIRC, Xerxes said that his imortals would take 100 men for each they lost. He was then warned that the spartans would take 1000 for each. I forget that guys name, but he wasn't lieing.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:34:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TimJ:
In addition to the 300, there were between 4-7,000 Greeks at the battle.

I was a little disappointed to see bare chested Greeks sans breastplates and greaves in the stills. More comic book than historic garb....oh well, I'll see it anyway, I'm sure.



The stills above? They're wearing armor... They wore armor in the "300" comics too.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:35:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 6:40:01 AM EDT by callgood]
The Spartans never heard,

"We must outlaw FOR THE CHILDREN!"
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:40:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 6:44:13 AM EDT by killingmachine123]

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By TimJ:
In addition to the 300, there were between 4-7,000 Greeks at the battle.

I was a little disappointed to see bare chested Greeks sans breastplates and greaves in the stills. More comic book than historic garb....oh well, I'll see it anyway, I'm sure.



The stills above? They're wearing armor... They wore armor in the "300" comics too.



In the trialer they were bare chested. I thought they had pretty long hair too, but I guess we can't be too pickey when it comes to hollywood.

ETA: I thougth that they supposedly had long hair in real life. In the movie it was only about shoulder lenght.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:41:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By TimJ:
In addition to the 300, there were between 4-7,000 Greeks at the battle.

I was a little disappointed to see bare chested Greeks sans breastplates and greaves in the stills. More comic book than historic garb....oh well, I'll see it anyway, I'm sure.



The stills above? They're wearing armor... They wore armor in the "300" comics too.



In the trialer they were bare chested. I thought they had pretty long hair too, but I guess we can't be too pickey when it comes to hollywood.



Hmm. I'll have to download that and check it out.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:43:22 AM EDT
I have Gates of Fire around here somewhere too. And 300 Spartans. A great book and a rather nice movie to complement it.

And I'm eagerly waiting a gritty, modern movie about Thermopylae.

And he's going to do Rainbow 6 next? wooohooo!!!
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:02:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Miracle_Pants:
The Spartan governmental system is what inspired the Roman republican system and as everyone here should know our own system of goverment basis itself off of the Roman system.



Um, no.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:19:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Graphic novel.

Is that contemporary vernacular for comic book?




yup, and his comics will always be better then anything the movies try and mimic, same with Alan Moore, V for Vendetta will be good, but nothing like the Comic, same with The Watchmen
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:37:32 AM EDT
The rest of the Greek world didn't really liked the Spartans, and considered them a bit "queer".
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:48:18 AM EDT
THIS I MUST SEE!

Ronald
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:49:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
The rest of the Greek world didn't really liked the Spartans, and considered them a bit "queer".



All Greeks were a bit queer back then. The Spartans weren't liked because they could bitch-slap anyone they wanted to.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:05:40 AM EDT
I Read Gates of Fire 2 years ago, A great book. Told from the point of a Spartan slave that participated in the battle of Thermopylae.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:17:52 AM EDT


Do not depend on the enemy not attacking, but depend on our position that cannot be attacked.
Sun-tzu

The Spartans choice of where they did battle was the key to staving off the aggressors.

Ill wait for the reviews.



Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:20:29 AM EDT
couldn't find a release date.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:22:46 AM EDT
Gates of Fire was an awesome book! Can't wait for the movie
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:36:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
The rest of the Greek world didn't really liked the Spartans, and considered them a bit "queer".



All Greeks were a bit queer back then. The Spartans weren't liked because they could bitch-slap anyone they wanted to.



+1 They were like the "Homo-Rambo" of the day.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:42:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
The rest of the Greek world didn't really liked the Spartans, and considered them a bit "queer".



All Greeks were a bit queer back then. The Spartans weren't liked because they could bitch-slap anyone they wanted to.



+1 They were like the "Homo-Rambo" of the day.



Homo jokes aside, The other greeks did find the level of pederasty amongst the spartans to be weird. IN a context where homosexuality and pederasty are common place, that says a lot.

Forced sodomy was one of the techniques utilized by the spartans to ensure obediance and loyalty. It worked I guess.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:44:28 AM EDT
Just commenting on the battle itself, and what it meant strategically to the war effort..... As a Texan, I often refer to it as "The First Alamo". It probably wasn't the first, and obviously wasn't the last, but there are buttloads of parallels.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:58:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 10:01:23 AM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
The rest of the Greek world didn't really liked the Spartans, and considered them a bit "queer".



They both admired the Spartans (for things like their austerity, committment to excellence, strength and discipline) and were afraid and revulsed by them (the way their society treated women in such an egalitarian manner, the way they enslaved fellow Greeks instead of barbaroi, the way they could easily crush the other poleis if they wanted).
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:55:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wise_jake:
Just commenting on the battle itself, and what it meant strategically to the war effort..... As a Texan, I often refer to it as "The First Alamo". It probably wasn't the first, and obviously wasn't the last, but there are buttloads of parallels.



That would make Masada the Second Alamo.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:11:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wise_jake:
Just commenting on the battle itself, and what it meant strategically to the war effort..... As a Texan, I often refer to it as "The First Alamo". It probably wasn't the first, and obviously wasn't the last, but there are buttloads of parallels.



Pardon the pun.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:18:30 AM EDT
It looks like some Hollywood conservatives slipped one through.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:09:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 12:10:29 PM EDT by wise_jake]

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:

Originally Posted By wise_jake:
Just commenting on the battle itself, and what it meant strategically to the war effort..... As a Texan, I often refer to it as "The First Alamo". It probably wasn't the first, and obviously wasn't the last, but there are buttloads of parallels.


That would make Masada the Second Alamo.


If Thermo was the first, then most definitely.

Also, if you put the Battle of the Alamo in its historical context with the Battle ("Confrontation," actually) of Gonzales, well, you know those guys HAD TO have been thinking about Thermo. The "Come and Take It" cannon could just as easily have been called the "Molon Labe" cannon.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:15:21 PM EDT
I apologize for my lack of historical knowledge, but was this also the battle where the aggressor stated that he'd "Darken the sun with his rain of arrows", and the defender said something like, "Great, then we'll fight in the shade!"?

I always loved that reply, but then I'm a wise-ass at heart.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:17:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FatMan:
I apologize for my lack of historical knowledge, but was this also the battle where the aggressor stated that he'd "Darken the sun with his rain of arrows", and the defender said something like, "Great, then we'll fight in the shade!"?

I always loved that reply, but then I'm a wise-ass at heart.



Yep. The wise-ass was Leonidas, one of the Spartan kings.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:22:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FatMan:
I apologize for my lack of historical knowledge, but was this also the battle where the aggressor stated that he'd "Darken the sun with his rain of arrows", and the defender said something like, "Great, then we'll fight in the shade!"?

I always loved that reply, but then I'm a wise-ass at heart.


I believe that's correct, but I didn't remember it being said in an aggressor/defender exchange. I thought it was from one "Greek" (i.e. person fighting on that side) to another. Still, it does nothing to diminish the sentiment.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:30:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:
Homo jokes aside, The other greeks did find the level of pederasty amongst the spartans to be weird. IN a context where homosexuality and pederasty are common place, that says a lot.

Forced sodomy was one of the techniques utilized by the spartans to ensure obediance and loyalty. It worked I guess
.



So did spartans in boot camp still yell, "Thank you sir, may I have another?"
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:01:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Miracle_Pants:
The Spartan governmental system is what inspired the Roman republican system and as everyone here should know our own system of goverment basis itself off of the Roman system.



Um, no.




Um, Yes. The romans came to sparta in it's waning days just to gain a sense of how their Gov. worked. That information was used in the model of their gov. Which was used as a basis for our gov. This is all written down in history books. Please read one.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:18:58 PM EDT
I once read that Spartan cities didn't need walls. That tells you a lot about the fighting spirit of these people.

They could have held out longer if they hadn't been flanked by the persians.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:28:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 1:31:47 PM EDT by Alien]

Originally Posted By sslocal:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Miracle_Pants:
The Spartan governmental system is what inspired the Roman republican system and as everyone here should know our own system of goverment basis itself off of the Roman system.



Um, no.




Um, Yes. The romans came to sparta in it's waning days just to gain a sense of how their Gov. worked. That information was used in the model of their gov. Which was used as a basis for our gov. This is all written down in history books. Please read one.



I believe it was Plato that created the idea of a Republic, which was the basis for Roman government and ours. Correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps the Spartans adopted it to a lesser degree.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato's_Republic
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:32:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 1:36:00 PM EDT by sslocal]

Originally Posted By Alien:

Originally Posted By sslocal:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Miracle_Pants:
The Spartan governmental system is what inspired the Roman republican system and as everyone here should know our own system of goverment basis itself off of the Roman system.



Um, no.




Um, Yes. The romans came to sparta in it's waning days just to gain a sense of how their Gov. worked. That information was used in the model of their gov. Which was used as a basis for our gov. This is all written down in history books. Please read one.



I believe it was Plato that created the idea of a Republic, which was the basis for Roman government and ours. Correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps the Spartans adopted it to a lesser degree.



The Romans came along during the last days of Sparta. As stated they came to Sparta to gain knowledge. They later used it to their benifit. Where Plato came in to all of this is unknown to me. I will look into it though. Stay tuned...


Edit: Platon, the son of Ariston of the Attic deme (township-parish-district) Kollytos, was born in May of 427 or 429 BCE (Plut. Quaest. conv. 717b, d; Apuleius de Plat. i 1; D.L. iii 2) and lived eighty, eighty-one, or eighty-two years (cf. Cic. Cato v 13; Sen. Ep. lviii 31; D.L. iii 3; Ath. v 217a-b; Suda s.v. 'Pl£twn'). He died in the first year of the 108 Olympiad, 348/7 BCE (D.L. iii 2, 40).

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:02:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Alien:

Originally Posted By sslocal:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Miracle_Pants:
The Spartan governmental system is what inspired the Roman republican system and as everyone here should know our own system of goverment basis itself off of the Roman system.



Um, no.




Um, Yes. The romans came to sparta in it's waning days just to gain a sense of how their Gov. worked. That information was used in the model of their gov. Which was used as a basis for our gov. This is all written down in history books. Please read one.



I believe it was Plato that created the idea of a Republic, which was the basis for Roman government and ours. Correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps the Spartans adopted it to a lesser degree.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato's_Republic



Plato's Republic has nothing to do with the conventional political system known as the republic.

sslocal, your claim that the Romans were inspired by Sparta to form a republic style of government has a glaring flaw: the Spartans did not have a republic style of government. They had a bizarre totalitarian biarchy (two kings). Their system on government was closer to an anthill than a republic. The Romans admired the Spartans for the same reason everyone else did, they were just so bizarre and out there. Sparta became a tourist attraction for the Romans, who had Spartan descendants recreate coming of age rites for their entertainment.

If you can explain to me the Spartan influences on republic style of government, or even cite a single book that argues or claims this, maybe you have a leg to stand on. The Romans developed their system by themselves. They drew cultural and philosophical influences from Athens and the other poleis, Sparta was a fascinating oddity and not much more than that.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:10:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lc_allen28:

They could have held out longer if they hadn't been flanked by the persians.



IIRC, a traitor showed the Persians a way around the defenders and they were flanked.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:11:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By lc_allen28:

They could have held out longer if they hadn't been flanked by the persians.



IIRC, a traitor showed the Persians a way around the defenders and they were flanked.


You are correct.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:19:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By lc_allen28:

They could have held out longer if they hadn't been flanked by the persians.



IIRC, a traitor showed the Persians a way around the defenders and they were flanked.



They had democrats back then too?

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:11:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 4:20:03 PM EDT by B-Splat]

Originally Posted By TimJ:
In addition to the 300, there were between 4-7,000 Greeks at the battle.

I was a little disappointed to see bare chested Greeks sans breastplates and greaves in the stills. More comic book than historic garb....oh well, I'll see it anyway, I'm sure.



4,000 Greeks from various cities were with the 300 Spartans as they marched to Thermopylae. Leonidas sent most of them away when the secret pass was revealed. He allowed 700 Thespians to remain with the Spartans.
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