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Posted: 1/18/2006 6:47:37 PM EDT
I have been saving money since God got made at NO for night vision(Gen 3). I did sinned by buying a Marlin 45/70 classic but I was forgiven. So far I got about $2200 saved , need at least $3500. But I want to get a 22lr can which should be no more than $600 with stamp and am dying for a ptr91. I have no bills and can get what ever I want in 1 to 2 months but I only buy toys with either overtime money or whats left over from last paycheck after savings.So should I buy the less costly items first or the big ticket items first. I know that in time I will get all three but I am trying to guess what should I get before the elections.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:39:27 PM EDT
Skibane's Rule #47: What ya buy first is what ya use the most often.

Both NV and silencers are items that reserved for special situations. A rifle is an implement that is useful in a wide variety of situations.

See where I'm going here?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:43:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 8:43:21 PM EDT by bastiat]

Originally Posted By passgas55:
I have been saving money since God got made at NO for night vision(Gen 3). I did sinned by buying a Marlin 45/70 classic but I was forgiven. So far I got about $2200 saved , need at least $3500. But I want to get a 22lr can which should be no more than $600 with stamp and am dying for a ptr91. I have no bills and can get what ever I want in 1 to 2 months but I only buy toys with either overtime money or whats left over from last paycheck after savings.So should I buy the less costly items first or the big ticket items first. I know that in time I will get all three but I am trying to guess what should I get before the elections.



1. PTR 91
2. Can
3. NV

Reasoning:

1. No gaurantee of supply of PTR's or continuing operation of JLD (single source of product)
2. Cans can be procured from a variety of vendors. Legislatively, unless your state is controlled by Dems, the availability of Cans will not be affected by law any time soon.
3. NV is based in technological advancements. Which means what you buy now will soon be both A) Cheaper later and B) obsolete later.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:44:04 PM EDT
This is ARFCOM, after all, so the law states that I must advise you to


GET BOTH
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:49:21 PM EDT
IF you want a 22 dont buy a can, buy a integral Ruger or Browning. Here is some info. My Ruger shipped from them TODAY to my dealer and I cant wait to go visit it in the next few days. With ANY suppressed item its gonna take a couple months MINIMUM for the BATF to do the paper work. Here is where I got my conversion done.
http://www.srtarms.com/
Here is one source for info on suppressors.
http://www.silencertests.com/silencer-forum/
And here is source of suppressor manufacturers.
http://walkerprecision.net/suppressor%20manufacturers.htm
Now you can waste another few hours in front of a monitor learning about suppressors. Its good info.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:22:36 PM EDT
My 22 can is about the coolest piece of gear i own
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:45:22 AM EDT
Well, it was mentioned that a PTR91 would give you more use than a .22 can or NV. I disagree. I don't have my can yet (have fired a suppressed .22 on many occasions in the past, and they are very practical and useful) I do have a pair of PVS7D's which happen to have a Pinnacle tube in them which puts them on par with PVS14 with a newer .mil tube.

True, you can be Way Wactical with NVD's, but to be honest, I get most of my use with my NVD's riding my mountain bike in the woods after dark. I tear ass through a public park in suburban Detroit, pass through several apartment complexes and am never seen. Basically, there is nothing you can not do with these at night that you can't do during the day.

You will always be able to buy a copy of the HK91 (or the real thing for that matter). You will likely always be able to buy a can for a .22. You will probably not be able to afford a top drawer NVD if you shoot your wad on a can and PTR91 by the time you save enough to get the NVD's again. You need to do the smart thing and look at it as though you are buying the ability to see at night, not that you are buying a toy you can only play with in the dark. Makes it a lot easier.

I'd venture to say that a person with a set of NVD's, a few bottles of water, and a pistol or carbine could have gotten out of NOLA unharmed if the were in the worst part of town and waited until darkness to set out for safety. I look at NVD's as a tool to keep you out of trouble but if it comes down to it, nothing will turn you from a sheep into a wolf faster than having a set of NVD's lashed to your noggin.

Having NVD's means the difference between hunkering down and waiting the night out. It means not having to stay in a bad situation. With the power out, even a modern city like NOLA gets Country Dark at night... The um,... ahh,... "Natives" wouldn't have been able to see a hand in front of their face, so they definitely wouldn't have challenged the sound of a person walking down the street in the dark. At the ARFCOM WV survival forum in Sept. this year I did a demo with Fight4yourrights (who is also Night Capable) and some of the attendees. We walked up a gravel road away from the camp area, stopped and told them to walk back down the road, then come back and find me. The group walked 100 feet away, turned around and started back. All I did was step back 6 feet, staying on the road, and crouched down. They got within knife distance before I spoke up and gave myself away.

Something to think about.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:59:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 7:03:13 AM EDT by TheOtherDave]
Originally Posted By bastiat:

Reasoning:

1. No gaurantee of supply of PTR's or continuing operation of JLD (single source of product)
2. Cans can be procured from a variety of vendors. Legislatively, unless your state is controlled by Dems, the availability of Cans will not be affected by law any time soon.
3. NV is based in technological advancements. Which means what you buy now will soon be both A) Cheaper later and B) obsolete later.[/quote]

It's safe to say that if a guy buys Gen 1 stuff, he will be dissapointed. I did, and was. Then, I spent $1400 on a pair of PVS7B's here on the EE before tube prices were insane. These goggles were 51lpmm Gen3 with a mid 1995 tube MFR date. They worked really, really well. I'd have never gotten rid of them if it weren't for a better pair coming along at an insane price. The old goggles went to another ARFCOM member who got to see the difference between those goggles and the top of the line, he thinks he got a steal. Both are Gen 3, both are good to go. The newer ones are a little brighter and crisper, but that's about it. Definitely not worth the difference in price to get a top of the line pair.

Gen 2 will get it done (if you buy American) but it doesn't have the tube protections that Gen 3 does.

If you have the ability to search the Survival Forum, there have been several great posts on the subject, as well as the NVD thread tacked under AR15:scopes and optics.

Dave

ETA: NVD's have never gotten cheaper. The Russian stuff is cheaper than the American stuff, but like the American gear, it has gotten more expensive as time goes on. I'm not talking about a rebadged Russian made Tasco POS that you buy at Walmart for $99, I mean something that you wear on your head and can shoot with-the other stuff is pure novelty. Basically worthless. 1960's tube quality with lenses that just plain blow.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:31:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I'd venture to say that a person with a set of NVD's, a few bottles of water, and a pistol or carbine could have gotten out of NOLA unharmed if the were in the worst part of town and waited until darkness to set out for safety.



OTOH, I'd venture to say that person with a PTR-91 could get a few cases of Chivas, half a dozen pistols, and just about anything else he wanted - including a posh ride out of town...
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:37:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 10:40:52 AM EDT by doorgunner84]
NVG's are overrated... My wife has a monocular hand-receipted out from her shop, she's a life supporter for our squadrons. Anyway, we have it sitting around the house and use it rarely. Sometimes I use it to see what the dogs are doing in the backyard. I'll break it out when somebody comes over to the house to show them what it's like. Bottom line, I've had a "top of the line" set of goggles here at the house before and after the novelty wears off... you'll hardly use them.

Now a .22 can on the other hand, that's something I could see myself using on a regular basis if I had one.

~Dg84
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:52:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I'd venture to say that a person with a set of NVD's, a few bottles of water, and a pistol or carbine could have gotten out of NOLA unharmed if the were in the worst part of town and waited until darkness to set out for safety.



OTOH, I'd venture to say that person with a PTR-91 could get a few cases of Chivas, half a dozen pistols, and just about anything else he wanted - including a posh ride out of town...



Ever seen Blackhawk Down? Just a guess, but I don't think I could physically carry enough ammo to get out of the NOLA ghetto after Katrina. Even then, all it takes is one lucky shot when you have no access to medical care...

DoorGunner: Some people take to NVD's and some don't. I know people who buy them and don't warm up to them, and I know people that got them and use them every opportunity. It's a matter of setting them up right and using them long enough to learn how to work with them (some people aren't naturals with them, just like some people don't take to riding a bicycle right away), and a matter of finding uses for them. If you never go out at night then you aren't going to have a whole lot of non-SHTF use for NVD's. Myself, I work 3rd shift so any free time I have is at night. This means hiking and riding in the dark. If I worked days, the only time I'd pull them out would probably be to tinker here and there for a few minutes, show them to a buddy, or shoot at an ARFCOM campout. You just have to find a use for them if you have the capability-just like the military did.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:10:39 AM EDT
.22 can while you still can!
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