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Posted: 1/18/2006 10:50:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 10:50:33 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
... hire people who can READ English for your NICS facility.

Morons.



So I got to Wallyworld to pick up a Winchester 94 today, and fill out the 4473 like always. When the people at the counter call it in, it gets DENIED by the person on the phone, because I put "no" to the "Are you a nonimmigrant alien?" question.

For any of you that don't know, non-immigrant alien refers to visitors, vacationers, and people here on temporary work visas. Permanent residents (i.e Green Card holders) are not considered non-immigrant aliens, they are considered immigrant aliens. This defintion is written on the 4473 itself, and there is a separate line for Permanent Resident Aliens to fill out and put their Alien ID number.

The counter people at WalMart (who were very friendly and helpful, btw) tried to explain this to the person from NICS, saying that I was a resident alien, and not an non-immigrant alien, and thus HAD to put "no" to the "Are you a non-immigrant alien?" question. The NICS person refused to even process the 4473 further, and told them it was denied, and hung up.




The poor WalMart employees didn't know what to do - since I had clearly filled out the form correctly, but obviously they couldn't sell me the gun when it had been denied by NICS. So they spend about 10 minutes reading and re-reading the 4473 and the defintions on the back - utterly confused.

Finally, I double-dog-dared them to call back the NICS. I told them that I guaranteed they'd get a different answer if they got a different person on the phone.

Luckily, they did - and talked to a supervisor who told them it was okay to go ahead and process the 4473, and they did. But of course I got delayed.

Don't get me wrong -
First of all, I am very happy that foreign nationals are allowed to buy firearms in the U.S, and that's awesome.
Second, I think it's a great idea for the FBI to be extra-careful when processing the background check for non-citizens.

All I'm asking for is that the FBI actually be able to read and understand THEIR OWN forms!

This is also the first time ever that I've been delayed more than a few minutes. Go figure. A quick trip to WallyWorld to pick up a Winchester took over an hour and a half.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:52:04 AM EDT
its a government agency, I'm suprised they even speak english
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:53:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 10:54:52 AM EDT by ArmedAggie]
You should have told them it was Spanish. That would have cleared you immediately.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:53:44 AM EDT
Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you.


Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:55:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellhound:
Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you.






No shit, now the NSA will be listening in to my phone calls with old army buddies in Danmark.



I hope they have plenty of soap to wash their ears out with
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:55:56 AM EDT
When are you going to become a citizen?

Bob
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:56:28 AM EDT
They probably figured that since you're Dutch, you can't be trusted with firearms.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:56:53 AM EDT
Damn tourists.

<­BR>






ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:57:09 AM EDT
Just wait until they outsource it to India...
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:57:52 AM EDT
The Winchester 94 Terror Weapon? How dare you.

G
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:58:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
They probably figured that since you're Dutch, you can't be trusted with firearms.



They sure as hell are handy with dykes and bicycles though.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:58:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 10:58:37 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By Ky_Bob:
When are you going to become a citizen?





I don't have any particular plans to in the near future.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:59:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Ky_Bob:
When are you going to become a citizen?





I don't have any particular plans to in the near future.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.



You give up your position for the Danish throne then?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:01:09 AM EDT
Our gun transfers get called into the Virginia State Police, as far as I know -- not the FBI.

You've been here HOW LONG?

Didn't you MARRY an American citizen? Doesn't that make you a citizen by default or something?

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:10:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

You've been here HOW LONG?

Didn't you MARRY an American citizen? Doesn't that make you a citizen by default or something?




Yeah - I stole me one of your womenfolk!

I THINK I could probably become a citizen anytime I wanted, since I've been here for so long now, but I'm not 100% of the procedure.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:12:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Hellhound:
Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you.






No shit, now the NSA will be listening in to my phone calls with old army buddies in Danmark.



I hope they have plenty of soap to wash their ears out with





Watch for the Black Helicopters as well.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:20:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Ky_Bob:
When are you going to become a citizen?





I don't have any particular plans to in the near future.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.



Cann't you have dual citezenship? Or is that just a complicated pain in the ass?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:24:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 11:24:54 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By rwinn625:


Cann't you have dual citezenship? Or is that just a complicated pain in the ass?




Nope - Denmark doesn't allow it. You're either completely a Danish citizen, or you are not - no sitting on the fence.

Otherwise, I'd have no problem with that, since Denmark and the U.S. are such strong allies. I'd do it in a heartbeat if it was possible.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:29:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 11:30:04 AM EDT by Zippy_The_Wonderdog]
Perhaps it was the FBI guy's way of saying to you to get a Marlin instead.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:31:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
You should have told them it was Spanish. That would have cleared you immediately.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:38:26 AM EDT
Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.

This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:42:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 11:42:37 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.




I think you're reading too much into it. I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship).
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:42:18 AM EDT
Is it any other negative effects from not having an american citizenship regarding gun legislation ?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:46:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By julenissen:
Is it any other negative effects from not having an american citizenship regarding gun legislation ?




As a general rule (and from the persepctive of federal gun laws) a permanent resident alien has the exact same rights as a U.S. citizen when it comes to gun ownership. For instance, if I wanted to (and could meet local zoning rules, etc), I could get an FFL, become a dealer or manufacturer, etc.

I actually have an FFL (for collecting - the C&R Type 03 FFL), and I have an NFA firearm (a short-barelled rifle).


However, ironically the ONE STATE that I am aware of that does restrict non-citizens a little is Missouri, where I live. That restriction however, is only on the purchase of modern handguns, and concealed carry permit. Notice however, that I am not restricted from OWNING modern handguns, just from purchasing them (so in fact, I have several modern handguns that I owned before moving to Missouri, and that's no problem ). I could also carry concealed if I wanted, because I can easily get a Florida concealed carry permit (which you can get even if you don't live in Florida) and that is recognized by the state of Missouri.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:46:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:
The Winchester 94 Terror Weapon? How dare you.

G




Sitting Bull would certainly agree.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:50:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.




I think you're reading too much into it. I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship).



I did not know that you could not give it up, why?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:52:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Our gun transfers get called into the Virginia State Police, as far as I know -- not the FBI.



Part of the reason that our transfers cost $2 in overhead instead of 7 times that like a NICS check.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:53:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.




I think you're reading too much into it. I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship).



I did not know that you could not give it up, why?



Probably in the same way that I *could* move to Europe or Australia, and I might even want to live there my whole life, but would I *want* to officially say "I am no longer an American"?

It's kind of like burning down your childhood home.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:58:16 AM EDT
I've had a similar thing:

Even though I was, just like yourself, a immigrant alien, Walmart employee saw my nationality and instantly refused to even call it in. So I demanded to talk to the manager, and he plainly said it was Walamrt store policy!!

Isn't that the same as saying we're not selling milk to jewish people??? Store Policy??



Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
... hire people who can READ English for your NICS facility.

Morons.



So I got to Wallyworld to pick up a Winchester 94 today, and fill out the 4473 like always. When the people at the counter call it in, it gets DENIED by the person on the phone, because I put "no" to the "Are you a nonimmigrant alien?" question.

For any of you that don't know, non-immigrant alien refers to visitors, vacationers, and people here on temporary work visas. Permanent residents (i.e Green Card holders) are not considered non-immigrant aliens, they are considered immigrant aliens. This defintion is written on the 4473 itself, and there is a separate line for Permanent Resident Aliens to fill out and put their Alien ID number.

The counter people at WalMart (who were very friendly and helpful, btw) tried to explain this to the person from NICS, saying that I was a resident alien, and not an non-immigrant alien, and thus HAD to put "no" to the "Are you a non-immigrant alien?" question. The NICS person refused to even process the 4473 further, and told them it was denied, and hung up.




The poor WalMart employees didn't know what to do - since I had clearly filled out the form correctly, but obviously they couldn't sell me the gun when it had been denied by NICS. So they spend about 10 minutes reading and re-reading the 4473 and the defintions on the back - utterly confused.

Finally, I double-dog-dared them to call back the NICS. I told them that I guaranteed they'd get a different answer if they got a different person on the phone.

Luckily, they did - and talked to a supervisor who told them it was okay to go ahead and process the 4473, and they did. But of course I got delayed.

Don't get me wrong -
First of all, I am very happy that foreign nationals are allowed to buy firearms in the U.S, and that's awesome.
Second, I think it's a great idea for the FBI to be extra-careful when processing the background check for non-citizens.

All I'm asking for is that the FBI actually be able to read and understand THEIR OWN forms!

This is also the first time ever that I've been delayed more than a few minutes. Go figure. A quick trip to WallyWorld to pick up a Winchester took over an hour and a half.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:59:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.




I think you're reading too much into it. I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship).



I did not know that you could not give it up, why?



I'm probably being unclear again.


I can't give it up, because it is part of who I am. It's not a technical "can't" (of course I could theoretically give up my Danish citizenship), in the same way that you could give up your U.S. citizenship, or SteurAUG could give up his penis, get a sex change and wear pink dresses.

So it's technically a "won't" - but I think of it as a "can't" because I cannot imagine anything that would make me do it.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:00:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
I've had a similar thing:

Even though I was, just like yourself, a immigrant alien, Walmart employee saw my nationality and instantly refused to even call it in. So I demanded to talk to the manager, and he plainly said it was Walamrt store policy!!




I guess I should consider myself lucky, then.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:02:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By glock23carry:
The Winchester 94 Terror Weapon? How dare you.

G




Sitting Bull would certainly agree.



U.S. Army never used them. Many Indians, however, did.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:07:57 PM EDT
DK-Prof

You were expecting compenece from government employee's.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:08:17 PM EDT

So it's technically a "won't"


Clear, now.

I am still in love with one of your AR's, the one in the Zombie thread from last year, btw.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:08:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.


I think you're reading too much into it. I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship).


Probably in the same way that I *could* move to Europe or Australia, and I might even want to live there my whole life, but would I *want* to officially say "I am no longer an American"?
It's kind of like burning down your childhood home.



+1 ... and there's that heir to the throne deal too!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:13:01 PM EDT
You mean NICS doesn't use a call center in India, like everyone else?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:13:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Nope - Denmark doesn't allow it. You're either completely a Danish citizen, or you are not - no sitting on the fence.



I wish the U.S. had the same policy. People holding dual-citizenship is bullshit.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:14:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Nope - Denmark doesn't allow it. You're either completely a Danish citizen, or you are not - no sitting on the fence.



I wish the U.S. had the same policy. People holding dual-citizenship is bullshit.




While I would take advantage of it if I could, I completely agree that it is a VERY odd concept.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:18:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 12:19:49 PM EDT by Lord_Grey_Boots]
DK-Prof

I went through the exact same problem 3 years ago soon after the rules changed. You'd think they have figured it out by now. Oddly enough, I have bought twice since and haven't had a problem (1 immediate pass, 1 delayed).

I even talked to a supervisor and they agreed I should have passed.

Unfortunately, the only way to get past it is to file an appeal. I included the wording off the 4473 and their website on my appeal letter. It takes a few months, and you will probably have to go through ANOTHER 4473 by the time the appeal is processed. Check their website for appeal info.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:21:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 12:37:00 PM EDT by NimmerMehr]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I don't have any particular plans to in the near future.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.



Traitor!*

* Now are you a traitor if don't become a US citizen, or are you a traitor if do give up your Danish?

Personal I'd eat the Danish with a nice cold glass of whole milk.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:35:04 PM EDT
NICS is just a reverse telemarketer - they hire the same people, only they are answering the phones instead of pestering folks. The wages might be better, but I wouldn't bet much on that.

NICS is operated by a private contractor, not the .gov
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:36:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:
The Winchester 94 Terror Weapon? How dare you.

G



"Bullet hose! More thrusts per squeeze! Baby killer! Banana clips! Cop-killer bullets! You murdered John Lennon!"


>Sorry- I was having a flashback to my liberal days there.....<



Nice gun, prof- get 'em before they say "Made in China" on 'em.....
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:52:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Our gun transfers get called into the Virginia State Police, as far as I know -- not the FBI.



Part of the reason that our transfers cost $2 in overhead instead of 7 times that like a NICS check.




AFAIK NICS is free. The State adds a charge for their part. In Oregon it's $9. Across the border in Washington it's free.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:56:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Hellhound:
Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you.






No shit, now the NSA will be listening in to my phone calls with old army buddies in Danmark.



I hope they have plenty of soap to wash their ears out with



Not only listening to your phone calls but watching your e-mail and posts.....Keep talking fun boy!!!!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:05:51 PM EDT
The real shitty part is that with your "denial" you are now one more stat:

One more criminal stopped from buying a gun by the brady bunch.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:12:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



So I got to Wallyworld to pick up a Winchester 94 today



What was the price on that in your neck of the woods ?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:14:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Our gun transfers get called into the Virginia State Police, as far as I know -- not the FBI.



Part of the reason that our transfers cost $2 in overhead instead of 7 times that like a NICS check.




AFAIK NICS is free. The State adds a charge for their part. In Oregon it's $9. Across the border in Washington it's free.



Oregon charges $10 now. they found out they were getting a little shortchanged and raised it the dollar.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:18:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.




I think you're reading too much into it. I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship).



I did not know that you could not give it up, why?



I'm probably being unclear again.


I can't give it up, because it is part of who I am. It's not a technical "can't" (of course I could theoretically give up my Danish citizenship), in the same way that you could give up your U.S. citizenship, or SteurAUG could give up his penis, get a sex change and wear pink dresses.

So it's technically a "won't" - but I think of it as a "can't" because I cannot imagine anything that would make me do it.





You become a citizen and we'll get SteyrAUG to give up his penis, get a sex change and wear pink dresses.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:38:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Hellhound:
Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you.






No shit, now the NSA will be listening in to my phone calls with old army buddies in Danmark.



I hope they have plenty of soap to wash their ears out with



Danmark, is that anywhere near Denmark?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:51:31 PM EDT
Sad day when the folks at Wal Mart are smarter than the government employee working for NICS.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:54:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



So I got to Wallyworld to pick up a Winchester 94 today



What was the price on that in your neck of the woods ?




I think it was $278 or something in that neighborhood. Maybe it was $260-something - but it was definitely between $250 and $300.

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