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Posted: 1/18/2006 3:11:28 AM EDT
ROME - Italian prosecutors investigating the killing of an Italian secret service agent at a checkpoint in Iraq plan to charge a U.S. Soldier with murder and attempted murder, Italian media reported Tuesday.

U.S. gunfire killed Nicola Calipari near the checkpoint on March 4, as the agent was heading to Baghdad airport in a car with an Italian journalist who had just been released after being held hostage by militants.

The ANSA and Apcom news agencies reported Tuesday that prosecutors planned to charge the Soldier with murdering Calipari and attempting to murder the agent driving the car as well as the journalist, Giuliana Sgrena, who were both wounded during the incident. State TV news Tg1, and private SKY TG 24 television news also carried the report.

The prosecutor in charge of the case, Franco Ionta, could not be reached for comment Tuesday evening. A Pentagon spokesman, Lt. Col. Barry Venable, said the Pentagon had not seen any charges actually filed and declined to comment.

An Italian government report in May blamed U.S. military authorities for failing to signal there was a military checkpoint ahead on the road. It also contended that stress, inexperience and fatigue played a role in the shooting.

The Americans insisted that the car was going fast enough to alarm the Soldiers. The Italians have said the vehicle was traveling slowly.

Police and ballistic experts assigned by Rome prosecutors to examine the car have concluded it was traveling slower than the U.S. military claimed. They agreed with U.S. findings that only one Soldier fired at the car.

The shooting angered Italians, already largely opposed to the war in Iraq, and led many to step up calls for withdrawing the Italian contingent. Premier Silvio Berlusconi, who sent some 3,000 troops to Iraq after Saddam Hussein's ouster, insisted the incident would not affect troop levels or Italy's friendship with Washington.


Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:20:55 AM EDT
They can charge him with what they want but that doesnt mean anything. The US will not turn him over to Italy.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:49:27 AM EDT
U.S. response to Italy...... " Suck our Balls "
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:51:00 AM EDT
I remember that! That was last year somewhere.

If I was at a checkpoint, and a car came speeding up to us, ignoring all signals, I think I'd open fire...

Fuck them!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:53:07 AM EDT
No jurisdiction, but it pisses me off that Guido would do it.

OTOH, I should expect nothing different.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:07:51 AM EDT
Didn't the miitary release satellite images that somehow showed that the car WAS travelling at a high rate of speed?


I'd advise that troop to steer clear of Italy (or Europe for that matter) for the rest of his life. I'm sure other EU pussy nations would grab him and turn him over if they saw his name on a passort 20 years from now.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:10:56 AM EDT
One way or another, I think the troop will be screwed.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:14:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 4:14:32 AM EDT by pliftkl]

Originally Posted By svtfast:
They can charge him with what they want but that doesnt mean anything. The US will not turn him over to Italy.



We won't turn him over, but it means that the soldier who is charged needs to be very careful about what countries he visits for the rest of his life, because EU countries would probably seriously consider handing him over...
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:17:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 4:19:17 AM EDT by Ross]
There's some domestic politics and playing to the public involved with this as well. I'm not completely up on Itallian politics, but IIRC there was political hay to be made over what to do. Let's just say it's not driven 100% in a quest for the truth.

Personally I think it was a cascade of errors that built upon itself and left a good man (the Italian agent, who afterall was doing a hard job in some dangerous conditions) dead. It couldn't have been a safe and easy job to get her (the hostage), and supposedly he wasn't even expecting to get her that night. So there he is with an exfil plan in the trash, and he has to get out fast. You know his Iraqi driver was shitting a brick by then as well. Things went wrong pretty early on that night and ended with him trying to shield the hostage with his own body.

Yeah, mistakes were made, but by alot of people and it wasn't by the GI that actually shot. He's just getting railroaded by a politician.

The Prosecuter is trying to make political capital on the death of an agent who did give his life to save that of the hostage, and then pick some small fry GI rather than someone who would cause political problems for him. The prosecuter isn't "Italy". He's a politician and one of the worst kind.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:17:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By svtfast:
They can charge him with what they want but that doesnt mean anything. The US will not turn him over to Italy.



We won't turn him over, but it means that the soldier who is charged needs to be very careful about what countries he visits for the rest of his life, because EU countries would probably seriously consider handing him over...



OH NO! He can't vacation in Europe! What a terrible price to pay.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:22:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
One way or another, I think the troop will be screwed.




Holefully not.

Hopefully our command structure over there understands enough to know that they could be left hanging out to dry at any moment by the idiocy that goes on in politics, and will not be inclined to do such a thing to a fellow soldier.

Never underestimate the system's ability to hang good people trying hard to do a tough job in the wind.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:23:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By svtfast:
They can charge him with what they want but that doesnt mean anything. The US will not turn him over to Italy.



We won't turn him over, but it means that the soldier who is charged needs to be very careful about what countries he visits for the rest of his life, because EU countries would probably seriously consider handing him over...



From what I have read of the EU laws, the police would be OBLIGATED to turn him over by law, regardless of whether they would like to or not.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:27:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By efpeter:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By svtfast:
They can charge him with what they want but that doesnt mean anything. The US will not turn him over to Italy.



We won't turn him over, but it means that the soldier who is charged needs to be very careful about what countries he visits for the rest of his life, because EU countries would probably seriously consider handing him over...



OH NO! He can't vacation in Europe! What a terrible price to pay.



Or Mexico, or Canada, or just about anywhere else...

I think that IS a pretty steep price to pay for basically doing your job. I've got no idea what the soldier was planning on doing after he leaves the service, but it sure won't be a lucrative career with a private international security company...
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:39:04 AM EDT
Everyone inside the car could have been killed; Italy should be thankful they weren't.

If the checkpoint had been manned by your average Arfcommers, it would have looked like a brillo pad by the time it stopped.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:03:37 AM EDT
Hey...Guido!

WHY DON'T YOU ALL FUCK OFF!!!

Fucking short-peckered. short-memoried, ungrateful, pussyfied euroweenies!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:15:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 5:20:22 AM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:19:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 5:20:36 AM EDT by DonD]

Originally Posted By CAAAwarfighter:
ROME - Italian prosecutors investigating the killing of an Italian secret service agent at a checkpoint in Iraq plan to charge a U.S. Soldier with murder and attempted murder, Italian media reported Tuesday.

U.S. gunfire killed Nicola Calipari near the checkpoint on March 4, as the agent was heading to Baghdad airport in a car with an Italian journalist who had just been released after being held hostage by militants.

The ANSA and Apcom news agencies reported Tuesday that prosecutors planned to charge the Soldier with murdering Calipari and attempting to murder the agent driving the car as well as the journalist, Giuliana Sgrena, who were both wounded during the incident. State TV news Tg1, and private SKY TG 24 television news also carried the report.

The prosecutor in charge of the case, Franco Ionta, could not be reached for comment Tuesday evening. A Pentagon spokesman, Lt. Col. Barry Venable, said the Pentagon had not seen any charges actually filed and declined to comment.

An Italian government report in May blamed U.S. military authorities for failing to signal there was a military checkpoint ahead on the road. It also contended that stress, inexperience and fatigue played a role in the shooting.

The Americans insisted that the car was going fast enough to alarm the Soldiers. The Italians have said the vehicle was traveling slowly.

Police and ballistic experts assigned by Rome prosecutors to examine the car have concluded it was traveling slower than the U.S. military claimed. They agreed with U.S. findings that only one Soldier fired at the car.

The shooting angered Italians, already largely opposed to the war in Iraq, and led many to step up calls for withdrawing the Italian contingent. Premier Silvio Berlusconi, who sent some 3,000 troops to Iraq after Saddam Hussein's ouster, insisted the incident would not affect troop levels or Italy's friendship with Washington.





How about a boycott of travel to Spain by US citizens in responce.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:24:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By efpeter: OH NO! He can't vacation in Europe! What a terrible price to pay.
No kidding! I've been to several countries in the EU. He isn't missing anything and he can do better elsewhere.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:40:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By efpeter:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By svtfast:
They can charge him with what they want but that doesnt mean anything. The US will not turn him over to Italy.



We won't turn him over, but it means that the soldier who is charged needs to be very careful about what countries he visits for the rest of his life, because EU countries would probably seriously consider handing him over...



OH NO! He can't vacation in Europe! What a terrible price to pay.

He could just chance his name I guess, the US Gov should be willing to hand him a passport with new details if he would ask for it.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:46:37 AM EDT
The Alps and Ireland were about the only things I saw in Europe that made any impression on me (other than olive skinned hotties around Rome that is). Mountains and pretty countryside can be found here too. Yes, it’s pretty limiting on one's horizons, but it beats being jailed to appease a mob and a bunch of America-hating politicians.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:48:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
One way or another, I think the troop will be screwed.




Someone has to be blamed. You don't think the Colonel or General will be the one to take the fall.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:01:16 AM EDT
Things like this make me thank God we have Bush and not Gore or Kerry. I'm so relieved that we won't be taking part in the International Criminal Court - for exactly this kind of reason. Italy is our "Ally", imagine if it were the Chinese or French running the ICC and in charge of cases like this.


-K
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:10:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tangeant:
U.S. response to Italy...... " Suck our Balls "

+1 million
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:55:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
One way or another, I think the troop will be screwed.




I'd be willing to bet real money that you're wrong.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 7:49:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:
Things like this make me thank God we have Bush and not Gore or Kerry. I'm so relieved that we won't be taking part in the International Criminal Court - for exactly this kind of reason. Italy is our "Ally", imagine if it were the Chinese or French running the ICC and in charge of cases like this.


-K



That's true. There is no doubt in my mind Kerry would have turned this soldier over to Italian authorities for "due process", and it would be all over but the crying. Does anyone think the Italians would have any problem sacrificing this guy for their own political gain? Of course there's pressure in Italy, as there would be anywhere. But the Italian government could pacify everyone without any har to themselves - the guy isn't Italian, but some foreigner. Simple. Someone on this board onece said a "politician would feed you and your family into a wood chipper if it kept the politician in power." I agree completely, and wish I could remember who said it so I could give proper credit.

I'll also say something else, in regards to the use of "ally" in this thread. It's a sad mistake. Anyone who has had the Italians as allies has lost. A great deal of the loss would be attributable to their "turning." I don't care if it's not nice, or insulting, or politically incorrect: it is a fact.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:38:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DonD:

Originally Posted By CAAAwarfighter:
ROME - Italian prosecutors investigating the killing of an Italian secret service agent at a checkpoint in Iraq plan to charge a U.S. Soldier with murder and attempted murder, Italian media reported Tuesday.

U.S. gunfire killed Nicola Calipari near the checkpoint on March 4, as the agent was heading to Baghdad airport in a car with an Italian journalist who had just been released after being held hostage by militants.

The ANSA and Apcom news agencies reported Tuesday that prosecutors planned to charge the Soldier with murdering Calipari and attempting to murder the agent driving the car as well as the journalist, Giuliana Sgrena, who were both wounded during the incident. State TV news Tg1, and private SKY TG 24 television news also carried the report.

The prosecutor in charge of the case, Franco Ionta, could not be reached for comment Tuesday evening. A Pentagon spokesman, Lt. Col. Barry Venable, said the Pentagon had not seen any charges actually filed and declined to comment.

An Italian government report in May blamed U.S. military authorities for failing to signal there was a military checkpoint ahead on the road. It also contended that stress, inexperience and fatigue played a role in the shooting.

The Americans insisted that the car was going fast enough to alarm the Soldiers. The Italians have said the vehicle was traveling slowly.

Police and ballistic experts assigned by Rome prosecutors to examine the car have concluded it was traveling slower than the U.S. military claimed. They agreed with U.S. findings that only one Soldier fired at the car.

The shooting angered Italians, already largely opposed to the war in Iraq, and led many to step up calls for withdrawing the Italian contingent. Premier Silvio Berlusconi, who sent some 3,000 troops to Iraq after Saddam Hussein's ouster, insisted the incident would not affect troop levels or Italy's friendship with Washington.





How about a boycott of travel to Spain by US citizens in responce.




Why?

Read the article again. It is Italy, not Spain.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:11:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 4:14:04 PM EDT by SJSAMPLE]
Outstanding!
Now that soldier is on their list!
You know what that means, right?

It means he can walk up to any asshole that fucks with him and say,

"I'm wanted for murder in Italy."
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