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Posted: 1/17/2006 5:20:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 2:49:35 PM EDT by M4-CQBR]


Alright, I scored a Five-seveN USG today in my home state, private sale, and on trade for that matter. Real sweet deal, and it is new!
I am so excited. So now, all you guys that own one, can you help me locate a good holster for this weapon and mags. The mags are some of the widest I have ever seen. Once again,
Any help will be greatly appreciated. I like Inside the waist band holsters, and shoulder rigs.

Thanks in advance. . . M4-CQBR




Original topic below, but all questions were answered, so there is no need to respond to this part of my post:

I'm in the market for one of these FN Five-seveN pistols, but have read that there are a couple different models. I've noticed there is no external hammer on this pistol.

One is a military or (tactical) model, and it is single action. Is this what people are advertising as the USG model? What does the USG stand for?

And then there is a standard model that is double action only. I don't understand the differences in function between the single & double action only features.

Can anyone explain the differences in function and what models are available for purchase.
I really appreciate any responses and help with my quest to purchase the right FN Five-seveN pistol




M4-CQBR

Sic vis pacem para bellum.



Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:21:24 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:30:07 PM EDT
edited
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:45:08 PM EDT
Well according to Swat Magazine last month's issue the differences are ..

3 different models

1. DAO model ( IOM ) - DAO only, fixed sights, accessory rail, large trigger guard.

2. Tactical model ( IOM ) - Lighter trigger, safety above trigger guard, large trigger guard, fixed sights, accessory rail.

3. USG model - More conventional sized trigger guard, magazine safety, adjustable sights, picatinny rail, lighter trigger, larger magazine release can be changed for left and right handers, checkered grip, ambidextrous safety lever above the trigger.

Also said the USG model will be the only one on the US market in the future.

*disclaimer was in a hurry, some info may not be 100 percent correct.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:49:42 PM EDT
So what are the differences in function between the single action & double action only?
Also, what does the USG stand for on most of the models I see for sale?

M4-CQBR
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:57:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 9:01:06 PM EDT by dugedug]
Single action is your 1911 style and double action is your Sig/HK style. Diff in function? No click click click on an empty chamber with a single action. And I believe the trigger pull will be lighter for the Single.

USG = United States Government

Google is your friend.

Got rid of mine when they nuetered the ammo.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:09:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 9:13:32 PM EDT by M4-CQBR]
I own an HK but have never owned or fired a 1911. So I don't understand that comment.
Is it just that there is no hammer to cock the trigger in a pulled back position like when I carry my HK cocked & loaded?

Sorry about my ignorance here... I never really knew what single action & double action meant. duh? I'm trying to understand. Best guess is that it is high time I learn. . .
I was just hoping there would be a very simple way to explain it. . . .

Also, if USG is United States Government, then is this the tactical (military) model that folks are selling on gunsamerica.com?



Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:58:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 10:01:35 PM EDT by pdynak]

Originally Posted By M4-CQBR:
edited



double action is when the pull of the trigger performs two functions. first, it cocks the hammer, second it releases the hammer. ussually a long hard pull of the trigger. called (DAO)

single action is when the pull of the trigger performs one function. pull trigger, it releases the hammer and the gun fires. ussually a shorter easy pull. everytime the gun fires and the slide recoils back, that function cocks the hammer. simply pulling the trigger realeases the hammer and it shoots again. called (SAO)

get the single action

edit - there is no external hammer cause it probably uses something called a striker. its basically just a firing pin operated by a spring. similar to a glock or springfield xd. i dont know that much about the 57
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:13:50 PM EDT
From what I learned from expierence a "single action" means you can rapid fire faster.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:28:17 PM EDT
Like said above, in Single action (SA) the trigger WILL NEVER cock the hammer back it will only release it to strike. In order to pull back the hammer you must use your thumb or rack the slide.
In semi-autos, once the slide is racked and the hammer is cocked then all you have to do is pull the trigger again and again and it will fire automatically. the trigger is light and easy to use.

In Double Action ONLY (DAO) the trigger will have to pull back the hammer in cocking position then release it. This is a hard pull and takes training to use that is different from a single action. Each time you pull the trigger it will be the same weight of pull.

Then there is what is known as single\doulbe action or SA/DA In this type of gun like Barettas and PPKs you have several option available to you! Suffice to say it's normal action is this, The first trigger pull will be "double action" in which you have to pull back the hammer using the trigger, then all follow up shots will be Single action. OR the gun can be made to fire Single Action only! With me so far? BUT the gun can never be made to fire Double action Only!

Now onto revolvers! maybe you can understand better when you see the revolver explained. Unlike the "automatic" the revoler has no "slide" to pull back the trigger for you. you as the operator must always pull the hammer back yourself. Either by using your thumb or pulling the "double action" trigger. So unlike a single action "automatic" every time you want to fire a single action pistol you have to pull back the hammer and pull the trigger every time! This is basically "old west" tech! imagine the cowboy who uses his palm to fire quickly. these guns are NOT recommended as modern self defence weapons.
99% of modern revolvers are double action.
Oh then then there is the GLock action......................................
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:41:02 PM EDT
Thanks for the responses guys. I understand the terminolgy now.

I guess I am curious now, if anyone that owns a Five-seveN knows the answer to this next question.

If the first round is chambered by racking the slide, and then fired, the weapon will eject the spent cartridge & rechamber another round, but will this next round also be fired as double action since the internal striker is set & ready to go with the second pull of the trigger? Kind of like an internal hammer being pulled back. Or striker as some here have notated.
Seems odd that a pistol like this would have such a heavy trigger pull.
According the the FN website, the trigger pull on the DAO model is between 10-14lbs.


M4-CQBR
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 1:06:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 1:16:50 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 1:17:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dugedug:
Single action is your 1911 style and double action is your Sig/HK style. Diff in function? No click click click on an empty chamber with a single action. And I believe the trigger pull will be lighter for the Single.

USG = United States Government

Google is your friend.

Got rid of mine when they nuetered the ammo.




looks like they didn't. They took one with lead in the primer and put out one with the same projectile at the same or above vel out
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 1:36:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 1:43:13 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 1:47:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Having shot both I must strongly say, you don't want the DAO. Grab a USG model, there are several places that have them in stock. The ones I have tried were at www.cmmginc.com, they currently have new in box USG's in stock for $900.



Duke,

From the research I have done & the questions I have asked, the folks selling the USG models on gunsamerica.com, well they all seem to say the the USG is the DAO model, including Impact Guns who I just got off the phone with. Are you sure the SAO models are available?
If so, where can I find one. Impact Guns went as far to say that the SAO model or the Tactical model as they have it listed, is not available to civillians due to a Gov't tax thing. And that they are for sale to Police Dept's Only.

M4-CQBR
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 1:56:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 1:56:50 PM EDT by legonas]

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Roger that about the ammo. New ammo came out in response to govt. pressure about the AP capabilities of the caliber, so FN played a couple of caliber games until the govt. pressure went away and the PS90 proceeded into existence.

These are the types:

SS190: Steel Penetrator, LEO only but not illegal to possess or shoot, just rare. 28 grain bullet at 2300 fps velocity.

SS192: Older type ammo which was put under attack by the Brady Campaign as being AP. Discontinued. Not illegal to possess or shoot, but getting rare.

SS196: Newer type ammo which replaced the 28 grain bullet with a heavier 40 grain bullet loaded to a lower velocity, around 1600 fps. Appeased the govt. until the AP controversy blew over.

SS197: Newest ammo retaining the 40 grain VMAX bullet but loaded to 2,000 fps velocity. This is real fast for a handgun considering the slightly increased bullet weight.

Supposedly, empirical testing by curious parties has shown the new SS197 ammo to zip right through commercially available body armor at CQB engagement ranges. I haven't seen this for myself. Shhhhh, don't tell Sarah Brady.

Fiocchi USA has begun production of the SS196 and SS197 ammo domestically, right here in the Ozarks near Springfield, Missouri. This cuts down dramatically on the price of ammo since all previous ammo had to be imported from Belgium. Trial runs have been done and commercial availibility should start soon, with pricing around the same as .40S&W. The creation of the PS90 made this possible, Fiocchi probably wasn't sure of the demand for the caliber until they were certain people would be loading up 50 rounds of it at a time.

For the Five-Seven, there are prototype 30-round magazines in existence right now, but commerical production of them is uncertain.



you forgot the SS195LF, which is the EXACT SAME as SS192 but with a lead free primer. this is still in production.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 1:58:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-CQBR:

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Having shot both I must strongly say, you don't want the DAO. Grab a USG model, there are several places that have them in stock. The ones I have tried were at www.cmmginc.com, they currently have new in box USG's in stock for $900.



Duke,

From the research I have done & the questions I have asked, the folks selling the USG models on gunsamerica.com, well they all seem to say the the USG is the DAO model, including Impact Guns who I just got off the phone with. Are you sure the SAO models are available?
If so, where can I find one. Impact Guns went as far to say that the SAO model or the Tactical model as they have it listed, is not available to civillians due to a Gov't tax thing. And that they are for sale to Police Dept's Only.

M4-CQBR



the USG is single action. there was only one double action version, the orginal. check THIS THREAD at the five seven forums for all the info you need!!!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:44:18 PM EDT
When the 5.7mm market stabilizes I may revisit it. I like the pistol. Light, accurate, and 20rnds. I was also planning on picking up the ps90 to go with it...
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:07:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 3:08:08 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:11:50 PM EDT
Damn............another gun I am gonna have to get. I think I will wait on the market as well, but one of these and a PS90 would be sweet
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:34:00 PM EDT


Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:39:24 PM EDT
You probably won't find a DAO IOM in this country. There are few of them here.

IOM=Individual Officer's Model
USG=United States Government (model)

Both are striker fired. Not true DAO, not true SA, more like a Glock.

If you have the magazine disconnect, I'm unsure if the USG has that feature, make sure you buy mags with the "shelf."

For more info try fivesevenforums.com they got all the good gouge on the 5.7 family of weapons.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:48:30 PM EDT
HUH?


Originally Posted By dport:
You probably won't find a DAO IOM in this country. There are few of them here.

IOM=Individual Officer's Model
USG=United States Government (model)

Both are striker fired. Not true DAO, not true SA, more like a Glock.

If you have the magazine disconnect, I'm unsure if the USG has that feature, make sure you buy mags with the "shelf."

For more info try fivesevenforums.com they got all the good gouge on the 5.7 family of weapons.


Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:50:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 2:59:11 PM EDT by dport]

Originally Posted By M4-CQBR:
HUH?


Originally Posted By dport:
You probably won't find a DAO IOM in this country. There are few of them here.

IOM=Individual Officer's Model
USG=United States Government (model)

Both are striker fired. Not true DAO, not true SA, more like a Glock.

If you have the magazine disconnect, I'm unsure if the USG has that feature, make sure you buy mags with the "shelf."

For more info try fivesevenforums.com they got all the good gouge on the 5.7 family of weapons.




What part?

ETA: Sidearmor makes a good holster for it.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:07:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 3:09:34 PM EDT by Galland]
C. Rusty Sherrick makes a holster for the 5/7. It'll cost ya though. All his holsters are handmade.

www.c-rusty.com/


His holster seems to be based off of the early 'circular' style trigger guard, so you may want to ask him about this if you wind up buying one.

Galland
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