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Posted: 1/17/2006 8:42:36 AM EDT
"B) In the case of the second or subsequent conviction of a person under this subsection, the person shall be sentenced to--

`(i) imprisonment for 20 years; or

`(ii) life imprisonment, if the firearm is an assault weapon, a short-barreled rifle, a short-barreled shotgun, a machinegun , or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler."


Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:45:18 AM EDT
Bacause you can spray fire from the hip...duh.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:46:54 AM EDT
no no no no, they will fuck with your head and turn you into a manaical killer.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:48:04 AM EDT
...It must be those two clicks that preceed the loud noise.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:50:10 AM EDT
Hollywood.

Everybody thinks of ARNOLD in the movies when it comes to FA weapons. Nevermind it's almost impossible to hit crap on FA
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:55:33 AM EDT
Because Brady and Fiestien are streched out old whores and need at least 16 inches to feel anything.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:56:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Because Brady and Fiestien are streched out old whores and need at least 16 inches to feel anything.



Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:02:56 AM EDT
there is a stiff penalty for NFA weapons for the same reason there is a stiff penalty for murder. To discourage such deadly weapons for being easily obtainable like before 1934.

FA = Lots of firepower, and you gotta pay to get it. legally.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:11:21 AM EDT
Because they're so expensive to obtain and (in the case of SF/FA) the ammo costs are so high , obviously nobody could afford to own and shoot a NFA, so only people with too much money have them, and people with too much money must be punished.

"If you don't have enough NFA firearms to share with everybody in the neighborhood, you can't have one"
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:13:05 AM EDT
More thrust per squeeze.

Man, I can't believe that I was the first to say that.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:18:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
there is a stiff penalty for NFA weapons for the same reason there is a stiff penalty for murder. To discourage such deadly weapons for being easily obtainable like before 1934.

FA = Lots of firepower, and you gotta pay to get it. legally.





And how much "deadlier" is a round out of a 30 round mag any more dangerous when fired from a FA weapon versus a SA?

Step away from the Brady koolaid.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:36:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
More thrust per squeeze.

Man, I can't believe that I was the first to say that.



You are only half-right. You see where 'Assualt Weapons' have more thrust per squeeze, FA/NFA weapons approach the boundry of infinate thrust per squeeze and thereby exceed the thrust-per-squeeze capicity of our justice system to cope with their use. As a result they must be regulated in a heavy-handed mannor to limit their acceptance and punished harshly to make an example of anyone who would overload the thrusts-per-squeeze tolerance level of our society.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:42:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
there is a stiff penalty for NFA weapons for the same reason there is a stiff penalty for murder. To discourage such deadly weapons for being easily obtainable like before 1934.

FA = Lots of firepower, and you gotta pay to get it. legally.



Nope. The answer is nothing. Anyone who thinks that because 30 rounds came down-range at them 30 seconds slower overall there was less firepower brought to bear on them needs to rethink things. Full auto has some practical phsycological effects on others but the objective fact is that the cyclic rate of the rounds coming your way does not automatically make them more deadly.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:47:08 AM EDT
Why are they more deadly and powerful?

Propaganda
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:55:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 9:56:35 AM EDT by clement]
I know most of you guys talked about FA, but that law includes shooting someone with an SBR'd gun and/or suppressed. I have no clue why a shorter barrel should be punished more.

Not sure how an assault weapon can legally be on there in states where the AWB is no longer in effect.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:22:40 AM EDT
Probably written that way to prevent the weapons sentences from being served simultaneously (instead of consecutively), or having the weapons sentences dismissed/thrown out as lesser included offense, or to leave the weapons charge available as a lesser included offense.

Unfortunately, all those reasons are probably moot since it was likely written by a weeny lib clerk who just hates/scared of guns. How come they are "anti-" gun, but if I disapprove of homosexuality I am "afraid" ("Phobic" - even worse irrationally afraid)
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:28:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
there is a stiff penalty for NFA weapons for the same reason there is a stiff penalty for murder. To discourage such deadly weapons for being easily obtainable like before 1934.

FA = Lots of firepower, and you gotta pay to get it. legally.


This is perhaps the absolute worst reasoning I have ever seen on this website.....and i've seen a lot of stupid stuff posted.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:30:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
there is a stiff penalty for NFA weapons for the same reason there is a stiff penalty for murder. To discourage such deadly weapons for being easily obtainable like before 1934.

FA = Lots of firepower, and you gotta pay to get it. legally.


This is perhaps the absolute worst reasoning I have ever seen on this website.....and i've seen a lot of stupid stuff posted.



It was either sarcasm or a troll. I think/hope.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:32:21 AM EDT
The North Hollywood Bank ROBBERY is PROOF of why NFA weapons are MORE DANGEROUS!!!!

Look at the BODY COUNT FROM THAT INCIDENT! Oh the Humanity!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:36:46 AM EDT
I can't believe some of you are trying to reason with this.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:40:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 10:41:06 AM EDT by cyrax777]

Originally Posted By demigod:
The North Hollywood Bank ROBBERY is PROOF of why NFA weapons are MORE DANGEROUS!!!!

Look at the BODY COUNT FROM THAT INCIDENT! Oh the Humanity!



20 injured and 2 dead?

and the 2 dead were the perps.
shit more people died in the FBI shootout in Miami and that was with semi's.

edit i hope you were using sarcasm.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:42:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Why are they more deadly and powerful?

Propaganda



Because if you get hit with three rounds instead of one you are more likely to die?

I don't buy the arguments that it's harder to hit with FA - I see people punching holes in silhouette targets all the time. And it's never just one hole, and it's always much quicker than I could should with my pistol. The simple fact is that FA weapons are capable of putting more energy on target in a give amount of time than semi weapons.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:45:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 10:47:18 AM EDT by redfisher]
I dont know, maybe this is why.............








Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:55:41 AM EDT
Tag. this could get ugly.

What about silencers?

with my 22LR silencer I could take out at least 5, maybe 6 million people.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:58:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By demigod:
The North Hollywood Bank ROBBERY is PROOF of why NFA weapons are MORE DANGEROUS!!!!

Look at the BODY COUNT FROM THAT INCIDENT! Oh the Humanity!



20 injured and 2 dead?

and the 2 dead were the perps.
shit more people died in the FBI shootout in Miami and that was with semi's.

edit i hope you were using sarcasm.



You are a quick study!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:01:32 AM EDT

What makes NFA firearms more 'fearsome' and 'deadly' than others?


Ignorance.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:03:10 AM EDT
a silencer makes it so that you can get more hits on multiple targets before the realize they are targets, and harder to get out of the kill zone because its harder to tell where the fire is coming from. At least thats why I want one.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:09:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Why are they more deadly and powerful?

Propaganda



Because if you get hit with three rounds instead of one you are more likely to die?

I don't buy the arguments that it's harder to hit with FA - I see people punching holes in silhouette targets all the time. And it's never just one hole, and it's always much quicker than I could should with my pistol. The simple fact is that FA weapons are capable of putting more energy on target in a give amount of time than semi weapons.



What? In a given amount of time? So if I place three rounds in you, from my SA58 in 2 seconds, it is more upsetting to you that with a happy switch I did that in 0.8 seconds? 6 rounds in 4 seconds or 6 rounds in 2 seconds makes a big difference in the death rate?

Sure there are some benefits to full auto fire: Less jerking of the trigger, ability to "walk" rounds to the target and so on. But the claim that they are a league of deadly unto themselves is just silly. Unless we are talking a beltfed of some kind, you carry the same firepower into a fight with an M16 or an AR15 assuming the same ammo load-out. In fact the semi shooter may be more deadly since he his more forced into the judicious use of that resource.

I know for a fact I would not suddenly feel out-gunned in a situation where a bad guy had a FA AK where I would have felt confident if he were using a semi. If nothing else I may get more oppertunity to move and position while he reloads.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:43:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:


Sure there are some benefits to full auto fire: Less jerking of the trigger, ability to "walk" rounds to the target and so on. But the claim that they are a league of deadly unto themselves is just silly. Unless we are talking a beltfed of some kind, you carry the same firepower into a fight with an M16 or an AR15 assuming the same ammo load-out. In fact the semi shooter may be more deadly since he his more forced into the judicious use of that resource.

I know for a fact I would not suddenly feel out-gunned in a situation where a bad guy had a FA AK where I would have felt confident if he were using a semi. If nothing else I may get more oppertunity to move and position while he reloads.



Lets see how well he walk those rounds on target or even reloads after you hit him with a couple of the fireball rounds from here www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__18/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html
they are about half way down the page.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:53:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
Because if you get hit with three rounds instead of one you are more likely to die?

I don't buy the arguments that it's harder to hit with FA - I see people punching holes in silhouette targets all the time. And it's never just one hole, and it's always much quicker than I could should with my pistol. The simple fact is that FA weapons are capable of putting more energy on target in a give amount of time than semi weapons.



What? In a given amount of time? So if I place three rounds in you, from my SA58 in 2 seconds, it is more upsetting to you that with a happy switch I did that in 0.8 seconds? 6 rounds in 4 seconds or 6 rounds in 2 seconds makes a big difference in the death rate?

Sure there are some benefits to full auto fire: Less jerking of the trigger, ability to "walk" rounds to the target and so on. But the claim that they are a league of deadly unto themselves is just silly. Unless we are talking a beltfed of some kind, you carry the same firepower into a fight with an M16 or an AR15 assuming the same ammo load-out. In fact the semi shooter may be more deadly since he his more forced into the judicious use of that resource.

I know for a fact I would not suddenly feel out-gunned in a situation where a bad guy had a FA AK where I would have felt confident if he were using a semi. If nothing else I may get more oppertunity to move and position while he reloads.



Please do not put words into my keyboard. My two statements were simply this:

1) That you were more likely to die from being hit with multiple ["three"] rounds than one.
2) That a FA weapon can place more energy on target in a given amount of time.

Do you dispute either assertion? If not, then go find someone else to argue with.

My beef with FA is that the people I've encountered who have them, with only a couple of exceptions, turn out to be complete a$$holes. On the positive side, they never save their brass and I love it when they leave hundreds of .45ACP empties for me to add to my reloading stash.


Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:05:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Hollywood.

Everybody thinks of ARNOLD in the movies when it comes to FA weapons. Nevermind it's almost impossible to hit crap on FA



No it isnt...
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:06:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Tag. this could get ugly.

What about silencers?

with my 22LR silencer I could take out at least 5, maybe 6 million people.



Between cleanings??

Damn, that is deadly!!!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:07:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
"B) In the case of the second or subsequent conviction of a person under this subsection, the person shall be sentenced to--

`(i) imprisonment for 20 years; or

`(ii) life imprisonment, if the firearm is an assault weapon, a short-barreled rifle, a short-barreled shotgun, a machinegun , or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler."





And there is your answer.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:07:49 PM EDT
Simply that they fire faster.

I worry about FA weapons in the hands of gangsters. But then again, I worry about gangsters' mere existence.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:21:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 8:23:13 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
[Please do not put words into my keyboard. My two statements were simply this:

1) That you were more likely to die from being hit with multiple ["three"] rounds than one.
2) That a FA weapon can place more energy on target in a given amount of time.

Do you dispute either assertion? If not, then go find someone else to argue with.





1) Shotgun
2) Shotgun

1 Rd 3" 00 buck = 1/2 magaazine out of a 9mm SMG

seiously though if the antis ever figured out what a shotgun is capable of within its effective range the Fudds are screwed
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:28:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
1) Shotgun
2) Shotgun

1 Rd 3" 00 buck = 1/2 magaazine out of a 9mm SMG

seiously though if the antis ever figured out what a shotgun is capable of within its effective range the Fudds are screwed



Good point - you are right. The only thing a Mac/MP5/etc. would have over the shotgun is that it's more easily concealable and that it can utilize JHP rounds.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:29:34 PM EDT
because they make HK_SHOOTER_03 cry
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:49:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
because they make HK_SHOOTER_03 cry



That was cold......
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:50:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
because they make HK_SHOOTER_03 cry



That was cold......



hey I've got a reputation to keep up here buddy
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:52:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
1) Shotgun
2) Shotgun

1 Rd 3" 00 buck = 1/2 magaazine out of a 9mm SMG

seiously though if the antis ever figured out what a shotgun is capable of within its effective range the Fudds are screwed



Good point - you are right. The only thing a Mac/MP5/etc. would have over the shotgun is that it's more easily concealable and that it can utilize JHP rounds.




More then what .......a Glock with a 33 round magazine? Ever watch a IPSC shooter run though El President ?...with mag changes?
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:13:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DDiggler:

What makes NFA firearms more 'fearsome' and 'deadly' than others?


Ignorance.



Isn't that the truth....just was told that I commited a felony by "sawing off " a Remington Model 11 barrel to 181/2 in ....by a cop no less. Per SuperCop it is against the law to "saw off" a shotgun, so I asked how short was legal.....and was told that you just couldn't "saw off" any barrel.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:22:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By DDiggler:

What makes NFA firearms more 'fearsome' and 'deadly' than others?


Ignorance.



Isn't that the truth....just was told that I commited a felony by "sawing off " a Remington Model 11 barrel to 181/2 in ....by a cop no less. Per SuperCop it is against the law to "saw off" a shotgun, so I asked how short was legal.....and was told that you just couldn't "saw off" any barrel.



Don't ask questions. Just comply.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:28:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
there is a stiff penalty for NFA weapons for the same reason there is a stiff penalty for murder. To discourage such deadly weapons for being easily obtainable like before 1934.

FA = Lots of firepower, and you gotta pay to get it. legally.



Mind telling me where Clyde Barrow got his BARs?
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:38:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 9:40:18 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By SoCalJBT:
Simply that they fire faster.

I worry about FA weapons in the hands of gangsters. But then again, I worry about gangsters' mere existence.




North Hollywood shootout
Lotsa full auto.
Heavy body armor.
Thousands of rounds expended.
2 bad guys dead
12 good guys wounded

1986 Miami Shootout
Semi auto Mini 14/Remington 870
No body armor
Less than 300 rounds fired
2 bad guys dead
2 agents dead
3 agents seriously injured
2 agents with minor injuries


Still worried about full auto?
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:41:45 PM EDT
Read Molon Labe.


Do you really think that the USG wants you to own a piece of equipment that is on par or even better than what they have.


God Forbid

I would venture to guess that Feinswine and crew stay up at night knowing that "we"(as in freedom loving people of the republic) have more .30 cal battle rifles than the morally bankrupt USG.
Plus.. We can hit what we are aiming at.



Yeah I just finished the book.

Does it show???

Buzz.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:42:03 PM EDT
Old gunstore rumor I recall hearing is that silencers were NFA'd because it was the height of the depression and people were doing alot of poaching at the time ,and thought that poachers used silencers to make it easier to poach.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:47:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
there is a stiff penalty for NFA weapons for the same reason there is a stiff penalty for murder. To discourage such deadly weapons for being easily obtainable like before 1934.

FA = Lots of firepower, and you gotta pay to get it. legally.



Mind telling me where Clyde Barrow got his BARs?



Natl Guard armories
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:51:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 10:02:09 PM EDT by SoCalJBT]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By SoCalJBT:
Simply that they fire faster.

I worry about FA weapons in the hands of gangsters. But then again, I worry about gangsters' mere existence.




North Hollywood shootout
Lotsa full auto.
Heavy body armor.
Thousands of rounds expended.
2 bad guys dead
12 good guys wounded

1986 Miami Shootout
Semi auto Mini 14/Remington 870
No body armor
Less than 300 rounds fired
2 bad guys dead
2 agents dead
3 agents seriously injured
2 agents with minor injuries


Still worried about full auto?



I'm more worried about knucklehead gangsters.

The difference between those two situations was level of training and committment. Platt was one bad MF. A FA in his hands would have made things far, far worse.

ETA: Forgot to mention the better tactics used by LAPD as compared to the FBI agents who boxed in the Platt and Matix, even though they saw them preparing their wepons for a fight. LAPD held Phillips and Matasareanu at a much longer distance, until the SWAT officers came upon them sooner than expected.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DDiggler:

What makes NFA firearms more 'fearsome' and 'deadly' than others?


Ignorance.





Wood.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:54:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SoCalJBT:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By SoCalJBT:
Simply that they fire faster.

I worry about FA weapons in the hands of gangsters. But then again, I worry about gangsters' mere existence.




North Hollywood shootout
Lotsa full auto.
Heavy body armor.
Thousands of rounds expended.
2 bad guys dead
12 good guys wounded

1986 Miami Shootout
Semi auto Mini 14/Remington 870
No body armor
Less than 300 rounds fired
2 bad guys dead
2 agents dead
3 agents seriously injured
2 agents with minor injuries


Still worried about full auto?



I'm more worried about knucklehead gangsters.

The difference between those two situations was level of training and committment. Platt was one bad MF. A FA in his hands would have made things far, far worse.



Agreed.
Most people think that full auto makes them (or someone else) some sort of superman.
Training trumps everything - this is what many polis and the gen. pub. don't get.
Machine guns can lay down heavy fire, yeah.
But if you don't know how to use it, you are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:56:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
there is a stiff penalty for NFA weapons for the same reason there is a stiff penalty for murder. To discourage such deadly weapons for being easily obtainable like before 1934.

FA = Lots of firepower, and you gotta pay to get it. legally.



Mind telling me where Clyde Barrow got his BARs?



Natl Guard armories



Ding da ding!
So how did NFA stop him and his ilk???
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