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Posted: 1/17/2006 5:24:52 AM EDT
If an individual is so miserable that he wants to end it all, why does society insist on saving him? Just so he can continue being miserable?

I bring this up because someone mentioned the aircraft mechanic who got sucked into the jet engine may have been committing suicide.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:26:29 AM EDT
That would be a wierd way to comit suicide.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:26:59 AM EDT
It just makes me feel better knowing that there are others out there in more misery than me.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:33:43 AM EDT
because depression that severe is an illness- one that can be cured in most cases, not saying that it's easy, just that it can happen. those are my thoughts.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:39:46 AM EDT
Ban suicide..for the children!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:40:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By UH_SALT_RIFLE:
Ban suicide..for the children!


+1 !
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:41:17 AM EDT
Some people still cling to the notion that human life has some value.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:42:06 AM EDT
Anyone who commits suicide should be put in prison!

Whats the coolest way to commit suicide? Eating yourself to death?
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:49:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:53:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
If an individual is so miserable that he wants to end it all, why does society insist on saving him? Just so he can continue being miserable?

I bring this up because someone mentioned the aircraft mechanic who got sucked into the jet engine may have been committing suicide.



Because generally we believe that those who commit suicide or who desire to are mentally ill and can be helped in a number of ways.

We generally hold that life is precious and try to do all we can to preserve it. (unless we are talking about the soon to be born or the aged, two groups folks in this nation are rapidly trying to kill off...)
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:55:03 AM EDT
As the child of a parent that commited suicide, I can tell you that it doesn't do the kids much good.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:55:25 AM EDT
In England.. if you tried to commit suicide (and failed), the punishment was capital death. They changed the law within the last 10 or so years.

Furthermore.... let them kill themselves.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:55:31 AM EDT


Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:55:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


....We generally hold that life is precious and try to do all we can to preserve it. (unless we are talking about the soon to be born or the aged, two groups folks in this nation are rapidly trying to kill off...)




+2


(one for the unborn, one for the old)

I wasn't going to say that, but since the can is open...
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:01:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 6:05:15 AM EDT by pv74]
Had a freind OD on sleeping pills two weeks ago...

32 years old...Upset his wife, his mother and his whole family.

I knew the guy for 16 years...

Truth be told, he was a dirtbag his whole life... and he had many opportunities to turn his life around...But his life never ammounted to much, if anything positive..

We think he was trying to manipulate his wife into getting back together with him. OD'ing on the pills being a way to gain sympathy. He called his brother inlaw while he was still alive, and the guy called the cops, which had him taken to the hospital.

He just took to damned many pills, and possibly some anti depresants to go along with it. Nothing they could do....

Everyone tried to help him ....It surprised me, but did not shock me when I heard the news of his death.

Thing is, he manipulated people all the time, even up to the moment of his death...


I think it served him right for what he did.

Kinda harsh, but hey...it's the truth...



Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:03:08 AM EDT
I killed myself once....but I got better.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:06:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:08:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
If an individual is so miserable that he wants to end it all, why does society insist on saving him? Just so he can continue being miserable?

I bring this up because someone mentioned the aircraft mechanic who got sucked into the jet engine may have been committing suicide.



Because generally we believe that those who commit suicide or who desire to are mentally ill and can be helped in a number of ways.

We generally hold that life is precious and try to do all we can to preserve it. (unless we are talking about the soon to be born or the aged, two groups folks in this nation are rapidly trying to kill off...)



+1
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:09:19 AM EDT
This thread will be locked
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:12:31 AM EDT
For some people it is the only relief from a torment most of us never know and never understand.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:17:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Commando223:
This thread will be locked



Why? Because someone's trying to turn it into an abortion issue? The difference here is one has a choice and the other has the choice made for them.

People who are determined to off themselves will eventually succeed, despite the best efforts of others.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:21:08 AM EDT
This comes from both a Lae Enforcement standpoint, and from a perosnal one.

Law Enforcement.
The majority of folks who we come in contact with in relation to suicide can be helped. They are simply crying out for attention, or need soem relief from the pain they feel inside. The ones we find, who never threatened or alluded to doing something like that are the ones we cant help. I have never EOD'd someone who threatend to harm themselves who actually did it later.

Personal.
Having had several friends off themselves, I feel no pity towards them. They made the choice to harm themselves, and in turn, inflict major pain on their families and friends. The only pity I feel is towrds their families for the pain, both mental and financial.

I had a very good friend who tooka Cor Bon .44mag to the temple two years to the day after his brother killed himself. Their mother is a incredibly strong woman, but is still wreck. My friend's wife was 5 months pregnant, and in the next room when he pulled the trigger. I deal with her and her new fuk buddy at least once a week. This lady, who was quite normal before, suffers from sever mental issues now. She and her live-in penis beat the child that she and her fromer husband made, and leave him unattended all the time. What really makes this painful for me is that this boy, who is four, is less than two weeks older than my daughter.



There you have it from two perspectives. We help the ones we can, to help the families they might leave behind. As hard as we try, we cannot help the ones who really want to do it.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:32:50 AM EDT
Seems to me, if I decide to drive without a seatbelt, ride a bike without a helmet, or hang myself in the bathroom... that it's ultimately MY decision to make.

I'm entirely against government hand-holding.

Let me detour onto abortion for a second... This nation does NOT need anymore unwanted children! Kids become victims, folks. It's important to realize that sometimes bringing a child into the world can be alot worse than abortion... when you consider who the parent(s) are, their mental state, financial ability, drug addictions, etc...

And now onto the elderly... I believe in mercy. I believe if someone chooses to stop their agony/suffering, that they should be legally allowed to hire, say Dr. Kevorkian, to assist them in doing so. Maybe you've never seen anyone eaten alive by Cancer... but I have twice. If I was put into that position, where I knew I was going to die, and miserably... I'd want to kiss my loved ones and go off peacefully.

Now I think it goes against God to commit suicide. I'm not all that religious, but I'll say this... I believe IF there is a God, he is merciful, not vindictive. If the choices you make are done in the best interests of the "victim"... Hell, I'm not sure how to word this clearly. Killing yourself cuz some chicked dumped you is unforgiveable. Dying a horrible death from Cancer is another story. Having a child that will be pimped out by age 9 because you're a crackhead, is unforgiveable.

You have to make choices sometimes. They're hard. For good or for worse, whatever we choose, it should be our fucking right to decide.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:33:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
This comes from both a Lae Enforcement standpoint, and from a perosnal one.

Law Enforcement.
The majority of folks who we come in contact with in relation to suicide can be helped. They are simply crying out for attention, or need soem relief from the pain they feel inside. The ones we find, who never threatened or alluded to doing something like that are the ones we cant help. I have never EOD'd someone who threatend to harm themselves who actually did it later.

Personal.
Having had several friends off themselves, I feel no pity towards them. They made the choice to harm themselves, and in turn, inflict major pain on their families and friends. The only pity I feel is towrds their families for the pain, both mental and financial.

I had a very good friend who tooka Cor Bon .44mag to the temple two years to the day after his brother killed himself. Their mother is a incredibly strong woman, but is still wreck. My friend's wife was 5 months pregnant, and in the next room when he pulled the trigger. I deal with her and her new fuk buddy at least once a week. This lady, who was quite normal before, suffers from sever mental issues now. She and her live-in penis beat the child that she and her fromer husband made, and leave him unattended all the time. What really makes this painful for me is that this boy, who is four, is less than two weeks older than my daughter.



There you have it from two perspectives. We help the ones we can, to help the families they might leave behind. As hard as we try, we cannot help the ones who really want to do it.



Profound observation. I feel for the child of your friend.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:35:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 6:36:57 AM EDT by panzersergeant]

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Let me detour onto abortion for a second... This nation does NOT need anymore unwanted children! Kids become victims, folks. It's important to realize that sometimes bringing a child into the world can be alot worse than abortion... when you consider who the parent(s) are, their mental state, financial ability, drug addictions, etc...




Thank you for high-jacking this thread. NOW it will get locked.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:36:38 AM EDT
I think the coolest way to commit suicide is like double or triple up.

Like run your motorcycle off a bridge, while ODing on sleeping pills and shoot yourself in midair.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:39:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:
Thing is, he manipulated people all the time, even up to the moment of his death...


I think it served him right for what he did.

Kinda harsh, but hey...it's the truth...



And you hit on one of the main reasons for suicide. While some people genuinely want to embrace oblivion, a significant number of suicides (if not the majority) are attempts to manipulate people and hold them emotional hostage.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:40:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
Seems to me, if I decide to drive without a seatbelt, ride a bike without a helmet, or hang myself in the bathroom... that it's ultimately MY decision to make.

I'm entirely against government hand-holding.



Ditto.

It's selfish, uncalled for, and a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But it's your life, you make the choices. If you decide to end it, that should be your choice.

Mental illness? in many cases yes, but i don't think that's always the situation.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:42:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
Personal.
Having had several friends off themselves, I feel no pity towards them. They made the choice to harm themselves, and in turn, inflict major pain on their families and friends. The only pity I feel is towrds their families for the pain, both mental and financial.


I believe this is wrong - It's extremely selfish to off yourself, leaving others to suffer. Better to carry on living in your own shit than to put others into it, by putting yourself out.


I had a very good friend who tooka Cor Bon .44mag to the temple two years to the day after his brother killed himself. Their mother is a incredibly strong woman, but is still wreck. My friend's wife was 5 months pregnant, and in the next room when he pulled the trigger. I deal with her and her new fuk buddy at least once a week. This lady, who was quite normal before, suffers from sever mental issues now. She and her live-in penis beat the child that she and her fromer husband made, and leave him unattended all the time. What really makes this painful for me is that this boy, who is four, is less than two weeks older than my daughter.

I have to ask you...
How do you deal with this? Do you just look and think to yourself "none of my business" ???

You are a LEO I gather... Isn't there Child Protective Services or similar agency there? Isn't there something, anything, you could do to help this child? I think if I was in your shoes, I'd go after custody on the grounds of an unfit parent. It's your very good friend's son he
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:43:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thepilot:
because depression that severe is an illness- one that can be cured in most cases, not saying that it's easy, just that it can happen. those are my thoughts.



Not everything can be cured by a miracle pill. Some people suffer from depression and nothing that the medical world has can cure it.

One 'cure' used to be a labotomy. Sever the frontal lobe of the brain, and you can pretty much stop all emotional feelings. Read 'The Glass Menagerie' by Tennessee Williams.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:43:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 6:44:20 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By FredM:
I think the coolest way to commit suicide is like double or triple up.

Like run your motorcycle off a bridge, while ODing on sleeping pills and shoot yourself in midair.



I have always thought that if I shoot myself, I would do it right. I would use two identical .357 magnum handguns rigged to fire at the same moment at either side of my head in hopes that the bullets from each revolver would collide within my cranium.

Why? Because I bet it would be a first for the medical examiner.

"Decedent shot himself twice in the head..."

"TWICE??"

"Yes, twice."

"How the hell did he manage that??"

It would certainly be one for the record books!

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:44:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Let me detour onto abortion for a second... This nation does NOT need anymore unwanted children! Kids become victims, folks. It's important to realize that sometimes bringing a child into the world can be alot worse than abortion... when you consider who the parent(s) are, their mental state, financial ability, drug addictions, etc...




Thank you for high-jacking this thread. NOW it will get locked. hr


I did'nt hijack anything. All three points of my post were on topic with points previously posted. FUVM.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:45:38 AM EDT
People who really can't take the hopeless misery anymore end their lives. They don't wound themselves looking for pity. Read Kay Redfield Jamison's, The Unquiet Mind if you want a firsthand, inside look at depression and suicide from a very intelligent doctor's perspective.

This may be the most misunderstood topic of conversation in America.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:51:55 AM EDT

I have to ask you...
How do you deal with this? Do you just look and think to yourself "none of my business" ???

You are a LEO I gather... Isn't there Child Protective Services or similar agency there? Isn't there something, anything, you could do to help this child? I think if I was in your shoes, I'd go after custody on the grounds of an unfit parent. It's your very good friend's son I know he did an extremely dumb thing, but the poor kid should not be made to suffer for it.



No, it is very much my business, and I do what i can to help him, and even the wife. I knew her before she lost her marbles, and she was a decent lady, run through the shit by this guy who was my friend.

We have DHS/CPS here, but it is like pissing in the wind. They are never there when you need them, and get in the way when they finally do show up. They have a standing policy of "keeping families together at al costs". I have made several referals to the dept about this situation, but nothing has been done. Best I can do is keep my eyes open, and fix what i can when I can.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:52:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By FredM:
I think the coolest way to commit suicide is like double or triple up.

Like run your motorcycle off a bridge, while ODing on sleeping pills and shoot yourself in midair.



I have always thought that if I shoot myself, I would do it right. I would use two identical .357 magnum handguns rigged to fire at the same moment at either side of my head in hopes that the bullets from each revolver would collide within my cranium.

Why? Because I bet it would be a first for the medical examiner.

"Decedent shot himself twice in the head..."

"TWICE??"

"Yes, twice."

"How the hell did he manage that??"

It would certainly be one for the record books!




I know of at least one case where someone shot themselves with a small shotgun taking off most of their face but not killing them. They then crawled to the box of shells reloaded and shot themselves again.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:56:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By FredM:
I think the coolest way to commit suicide is like double or triple up.

Like run your motorcycle off a bridge, while ODing on sleeping pills and shoot yourself in midair.



I have always thought that if I shoot myself, I would do it right. I would use two identical .357 magnum handguns rigged to fire at the same moment at either side of my head in hopes that the bullets from each revolver would collide within my cranium.

Why? Because I bet it would be a first for the medical examiner.

"Decedent shot himself twice in the head..."

"TWICE??"

"Yes, twice."

"How the hell did he manage that??"

It would certainly be one for the record books!




Glock 18 and a zip tie!!!!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:59:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
Ditto.

It's selfish, uncalled for, and a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But it's your life, you make the choices. If you decide to end it, that should be your choice.



There IS a major stipulation to that, I don't believe in harming other people... thats the "selfish" part you mentioned. You can't do that. If you're on your deathbed and your family understands that this really should end now, theres no hope... Then it seems better to me than suffering, and what family wants you to die in agony?

To off yourself because you got shit-canned at work, and leave your wife and child... well, see Patrol120's example.. for that, I think you go right straight to hell. Thats the absolute worst thing you could do, aside from taking someone else's life for no reason.

Its the rule called "Harm None". It's so essential yet so often ignored here
I don't think we can ever return to clean living, good morals, proper parenting and education, and cherished life. We're way too far gone from that.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:59:22 AM EDT
The generalization 'pemanent solution to a temporary problem' is way off base. Also, many suicide victims are well aware of the intense pain and guilt they will leave behind. Those are the people who talk of suicide trying to warn and brace their loved ones for the inevitable. It is also an indication of just how unbearable this person's life may have been. It is real easy to misjudge something you don't understand.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:02:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:

I have to ask you...
How do you deal with this? Do you just look and think to yourself "none of my business" ???

You are a LEO I gather... Isn't there Child Protective Services or similar agency there? Isn't there something, anything, you could do to help this child? I think if I was in your shoes, I'd go after custody on the grounds of an unfit parent. It's your very good friend's son I know he did an extremely dumb thing, but the poor kid should not be made to suffer for it.



No, it is very much my business, and I do what i can to help him, and even the wife. I knew her before she lost her marbles, and she was a decent lady, run through the shit by this guy who was my friend.

We have DHS/CPS here, but it is like pissing in the wind. They are never there when you need them, and get in the way when they finally do show up. They have a standing policy of "keeping families together at al costs". I have made several referals to the dept about this situation, but nothing has been done. Best I can do is keep my eyes open, and fix what i can when I can.



Thank You.

BTW, I would never hold it against anyone if a child-beating piece of shit got a "train ride" from LEOs. In fact, I'd bring the beer.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:03:35 AM EDT
For terminaly ill people I believe they should have the right to end their missery whenever they are ready. My mom is in that situation, luckily she wants to live on and I get to spend more time with her but if she is ready to end her pain then I support it. Anyone who dissagrees with a terminaly ill persons right to end their pain needs to be beaten as far as I concerened. These people have fought the good fight and are ready for peace.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:06:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 7:07:55 AM EDT by gonzo_beyondo]

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:
I know of at least one case where someone shot themselves with a small shotgun taking off most of their face but not killing them. They then crawled to the box of shells reloaded and shot themselves again.



I know of someone who ate a 12ga.
Happened to walk in on it... about 3mos. later.
Downstairs neighbor, a Long story.
He got ordered to Iraq (Edit: Kuwait) at the beginning of Desert Shield. (1st Gulf War)
I guess he did'nt like that news.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:07:51 AM EDT


There was an episode of The Shield that talked about a person's Moral Compass being broken. This is an interesting discussion and seems to me, has alot to do with how you were raised, what values you have, and where your morals stand. Some people really are broken. Sometimes it's really not their fault they're broke. We have lost important values in society, "Gangsta" is glorified and life has little value anymore.

I don't think we can ever return to clean living, good morals, proper parenting and education, and cherished life. We're way too far gone from that.




Life has little value anymore? We're way too far gone from that? Could you be more of a drama queen?
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:11:02 AM EDT

Life has little value anymore? We're way too far gone from that? Could you be more of a drama queen?


You're funny.
How many Columbines were there from 1900-1960 ?
How many school shootings have there been in the last 5 years?

What was the murder rate in 1950, compared to 2005?
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:13:16 AM EDT
Whatever drama. If you want to talk about stuff then lets talk about how many viking raids killed monks in the past? Get a grip on reality and stop talking like you are on a TV show trying to be melodramatic.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:21:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
You have to make choices sometimes. They're hard. For good or for worse, whatever we choose, it should be our fucking right to decide.



I agree completely.

God gave us free will for a reason.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:21:25 AM EDT
Suicide is illegal. You could get arrested for that!!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:21:48 AM EDT
Gonzo is right, the value of life has decreased immenselt, even since I was a child. Thats fact.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:24:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By FredM:
I think the coolest way to commit suicide is like double or triple up.

Like run your motorcycle off a bridge, while ODing on sleeping pills and shoot yourself in midair.



I have always thought that if I shoot myself, I would do it right. I would use two identical .357 magnum handguns rigged to fire at the same moment at either side of my head in hopes that the bullets from each revolver would collide within my cranium.

Why? Because I bet it would be a first for the medical examiner.

"Decedent shot himself twice in the head..."

"TWICE??"

"Yes, twice."

"How the hell did he manage that??"

It would certainly be one for the record books!





Or people could get some ideas here (don't click if you don't have a sense of humor):

How To Kill Yourself Like a Man

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:28:50 AM EDT
Yeah oh how much it has decreased. Got some form of statistics to back that up? We are living in the least violent point in the history of man. There are tensions but they are nothing compared to what they were in the past. You people just have to believe that the sky is falling. Oh run! Run! Life is less precious today than it was in the past even though it makes no sense, run for your life! It's all drama..
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:48:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 7:49:17 AM EDT by NAM]

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By NAM:
Ditto.

It's selfish, uncalled for, and a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But it's your life, you make the choices. If you decide to end it, that should be your choice.



There IS a major stipulation to that, I don't believe in harming other people...



Very True.

"Some made the long drop from the apartment or office window; some took it quietly in two car garages with the motor running; some used the native tradition of the Colt or Smith and Wesson; Those well constructed implements that end insomnia, terminate remorse, cure cancer, avoid bankruptcy, and blast an exit from intolerable positions by the pressure of a finger; those admirable American instruments so easily carried, so sure of effect, so well designed to end the american dream when it becomes a nightmare, their only drawback the mess they leave for relatives to clean up."

- Ernest Hemingway
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:51:48 AM EDT
Let me get this straight, you are using a qoute against suicide that was authored by a man who blew his own brains out?
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