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Posted: 1/16/2006 4:01:14 PM EDT
Just saw the news awhile ago saying that China claims to have discovered the Americas based on the map they unveiled today. Duh!

After taking away thousands of jobs and hundreds of industries, now they claim to have discovered the Americas? Wow!

What's next? A claim that the Americas are a part of China?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:03:43 PM EDT
It's pretty darn old news. First time around it was based on some stone ship anchor they found in west coast. It's only slightly more credible than Africans who discovered super-conductivity centuries ago.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:05:03 PM EDT
In my best flat boring Ben Stein voice....

"Wowwwwww"
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:07:16 PM EDT
The book was pretty decent- Here's a neat interactive map-

www.1421.tv/pages/maps/voyages.htm

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:07:57 PM EDT
It's pretty much a known fact it wasn't Columbus but they still teach that it was.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:08:34 PM EDT
DUPE!!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:09:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:11:01 PM EDT
The Egyptians were probably the first and later the Vikings also supposedly sailed the UK/Greenland coastline and found Canada, according to some ancient maps reportedly found.

There was a show on a long time ago about a reed boat that the Egyptians used on the Nile river which theoretically could have made the Atlantic crossing. The engineeer who replicated the trip built 3 boats and made 3 attempts....on the 3rd try he made it, giving some credence to the fact that it was possible. He also supposedly made the trip using only basic navigation and the boat was built completely as the Egyptions would have assembled it...there was no modern influence IIRC.

Who knows for sure? Not me, but it was an interesting story.

As for the Chinese discovering America...I guess anything is possible, though I don't take the claim seriously.



Z
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:14:08 PM EDT
Considering "native Americans" are the decendents of transient asians, it may be true.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:16:49 PM EDT
wasn't there some Roman coins found in some inca ruins a while back?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:19:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:20:33 PM EDT by ED_P]
There's alot of lost history, and it's a shame because it would probably be amazing to know what happened before the European version of history became the final word.

I remember reading about the skeletal remains of a genetic red headed man, with blunt trauma, dated to hundreds of years before Columbus, that were found in Texas.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:24:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By grizzlyarms:
wasn't there some Roman coins found in some inca ruins a while back?



Yes.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:26:45 PM EDT
Have'nt you heard??? Now everyone claims they found America first. Egypt, China Africa, Ireland, Albanians, Japanese, Andorrians , Whatever. The only two definate ones are the Native Americans and the Norwegians. So only people with that blood should be able to stay here! so i say to the rest of you, GET THE FUDGE OUT!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:30:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Have'nt you heard??? Now everyone claims they found America first. Egypt, China Africa, Ireland, Albanians, Japanese, Andorrians , Whatever. The only two definate ones are the Native Americans and the Norwegians. So only people with that blood should be able to stay here! so i say to the rest of you, GET THE FUDGE OUT!



What about the people those so-called "native americans" massacred when they first migrated over? Oh, wait.. well, if you ignore that bit of info your plan doesn't sound nearly so silly.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:36:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:39:21 PM EDT by offctr]
China is not about governmental system -- its is about culture, and a deep rooted belief that China is the original culture/society/civilization on the face of the earth, the preeminent culture of the world and WILL return to its rightful place as the dominant culture and leader of the world at some point. In the Chineese view of the world it is not an IF question but a WHEN question.
If you doubt that go to China and ask anyone about it --they are not shy about it and dont even entertain a single doubt of its truth. Emporers, Dynasties,Communisim and Democracies rise and fall China was there before them and will outlast them all.
According to China it is only natural that Chineese explorers would have mapped the US continent long before the Vikings or Europeans and Africans did.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:17:32 PM EDT
fuck china
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:22:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By offctr:
China is not about governmental system -- its is about culture, and a deep rooted belief that China is the original culture/society/civilization on the face of the earth, the preeminent culture of the world and WILL return to its rightful place as the dominant culture and leader of the world at some point. In the Chineese view of the world it is not an IF question but a WHEN question.
If you doubt that go to China and ask anyone about it --they are not shy about it and dont even entertain a single doubt of its truth. Emporers, Dynasties,Communisim and Democracies rise and fall China was there before them and will outlast them all.
According to China it is only natural that Chineese explorers would have mapped the US continent long before the Vikings or Europeans and Africans did.



+1 on this. Worked with a Chinese woman who used to tell me this all the time.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:23:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By offctr:
According to China it is only natural that Chineese explorers would have mapped the US continent long before the Vikings or Europeans and African did.



Why did they actually have a Navy back then?

Yeah right.

Walk across the Bearing Straight maybe, in a boat I doubt it.\

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:28:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HighlandMac:

Originally Posted By offctr:
According to China it is only natural that Chineese explorers would have mapped the US continent long before the Vikings or Europeans and African did.



Why did they actually have a Navy back then?

Yeah right.

Walk across the Bearing Straight maybe, in a boat I doubt it.\




I've seen somewhere the Chinese had huge ships, somthing like hundred and hundreds of feet long and wide. Some such dynasty or something, not my area. Someone could google it. Used them for trading purposes. Then some other such people took power and Naval traditions died off.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:30:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HighlandMac:

Originally Posted By offctr:
According to China it is only natural that Chineese explorers would have mapped the US continent long before the Vikings or Europeans and African did.



Why did they actually have a Navy back then?

Yeah right.

Walk across the Bearing Straight maybe, in a boat I doubt it.\




Well, I think there is really no question that the Chinese did reach the Americas, it isn't that hard to. Now the semi-surprising thing is that there is thought that even the Romans had reached the Americas, and as some have mentioned, perhaps the Egyptians did also.

Doesn't matter though, "finders keepers" and all that
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:30:51 PM EDT
DUPE
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:31:11 PM EDT
Wait until the Chinese go to the moon. They will claim there was no evidence that the U.S. was ever there.

You heard it here first by the way.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:35:36 PM EDT
They can have it when they ae big enough to take it from us.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:36:40 PM EDT
I thought Al Gore's ancestors discovered America....in fact, it was named after Almerigo VesGorecci.
Well, that's what I heard....


If the Chinese discovered North America, where are the artifacts.
They probably sailed into what is now known as San Francisco Bay and said...." this place is too ghey" ...and went home.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:37:44 PM EDT
Possession is 9/10 of the law.

If they want it, then they can come and get it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:43:45 PM EDT
from the 1421 website:

The difficulty in writing the book was further increased by the fact that the majority of Chinese records, documents and maps recounting the dramatic events of the 1421 - 1423 voyages were deliberately destroyed by the officials of the Chinese court, following an abrupt change in the country's foreign policy


So I guess 1425 was the year China shoved its head up its ass and pretended the rest of world didn't exist.

Follow through, boys, follow through.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:55:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
There was a show on a long time ago about a reed boat that the Egyptians used on the Nile river which theoretically could have made the Atlantic crossing. The engineeer who replicated the trip built 3 boats and made 3 attempts....on the 3rd try he made it, giving some credence to the fact that it was possible. He also supposedly made the trip using only basic navigation and the boat was built completely as the Egyptions would have assembled it...there was no modern influence IIRC.




You're talking about Thor Heyerdahl. Norwegian Anthropologist, not engineer. He made his first raft, Kon-Tiki out of Balsa in 1947 and sailed from Peru to Polynesia, to explore the possibility of South American voyages across the Pacific.

The Reed ship, Ra-II went from Morocco to Barbados. (And was pretty low in the water when it arrived) to show that Africans could have made the trans-atlantic trip.

A similar recreation was done by Tim Severin, "The Brendan Voyage" where he sails the Atlantic in a curragh, which is a kind of leather-made canoe in which St Brendan the Navigator was supposed to have arrived in America back about the year 700.

There was a wonderful cartoon in the Irish Times back in 1992 for the 500th anniversary of Colombus's voyage of Colombus arriving at an immigration desk manned by American Indians, and having to stand in line behind some Vikings, St Brendan, two guys from Liverpool (Reputedly made the voyage in a row-boat) and some Egyptians...

NTM
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:04:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rch:

China Claims it Disovered the Americas



BS, see my avatar , thats who discovered America!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:53:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:

Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
There was a show on a long time ago about a reed boat that the Egyptians used on the Nile river which theoretically could have made the Atlantic crossing. The engineeer who replicated the trip built 3 boats and made 3 attempts....on the 3rd try he made it, giving some credence to the fact that it was possible. He also supposedly made the trip using only basic navigation and the boat was built completely as the Egyptions would have assembled it...there was no modern influence IIRC.




You're talking about Thor Heyerdahl. Norwegian Anthropologist, not engineer. He made his first raft, Kon-Tiki out of Balsa in 1947 and sailed from Peru to Polynesia, to explore the possibility of South American voyages across the Pacific.

The Reed ship, Ra-II went from Morocco to Barbados. (And was pretty low in the water when it arrived) to show that Africans could have made the trans-atlantic trip.

A similar recreation was done by Tim Severin, "The Brendan Voyage" where he sails the Atlantic in a curragh, which is a kind of leather-made canoe in which St Brendan the Navigator was supposed to have arrived in America back about the year 700.

There was a wonderful cartoon in the Irish Times back in 1992 for the 500th anniversary of Colombus's voyage of Colombus arriving at an immigration desk manned by American Indians, and having to stand in line behind some Vikings, St Brendan, two guys from Liverpool (Reputedly made the voyage in a row-boat) and some Egyptians...

NTM




Excellent, thanks for the clarification. I heard about this a number of years ago and obviously couldn't recall all the details.


Z
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:01:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 10:21:10 AM EDT by Alex_F]
It says they stopped near australia to mine uranium!?

OOOOOOK
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:29:53 AM EDT
It wouldn't matter if China discovered America and set up colonies. The colonists would rebel against the "mother" country, turn into the world's Superpower, range across the world with a swagger, and elect a slant-eyed cowboy for President who says "nukurar weapons".
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:22:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By offctr:
China is not about governmental system -- its is about culture, and a deep rooted belief that China is the original culture/society/civilization on the face of the earth, the preeminent culture of the world and WILL return to its rightful place as the dominant culture and leader of the world at some point. In the Chineese view of the world it is not an IF question but a WHEN question.
If you doubt that go to China and ask anyone about it --they are not shy about it and dont even entertain a single doubt of its truth. Emporers, Dynasties,Communisim and Democracies rise and fall China was there before them and will outlast them all.
According to China it is only natural that Chineese explorers would have mapped the US continent long before the Vikings or Europeans and Africans did.



Could they have found the Pacific Coast? I think it's more unbelievable that they didn't.

As to wanting to reabsorb all of the areas that once show homage to any or all Chinese Emperors? hell yes they want to and that's why learned planners are pretty sure they are going to try to go back into the oil rich areas of the South China seas, even if there wasn't oil there.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:35:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 11:37:26 AM EDT by ImplementOfWar]
If China had reached America, they would of stayed.

I dont think people realize how HARD it was for our ancestors to travel those distances. They would of had to cross the Atlantic. Or go into Alaska.

With the freezing cold by going in the Alaska region, I would say it would of been impossible. And for them to travel around the world and then make the longer trip across the Atlantic, I say impossible.

Plus they did not have the technology that the Pilgrims did as far as shipmaking skills.

China is being fed propaganda, as usual. Another posted mentioned, China is a nationalistic country that tells its poeple they are superior and the chosen nation to be the last nation on Earth.

But then again, the Native American Indians could almost pass as "asian". I would say that the Indians were always here though. They had quite a population when the pilgrims landed, which means they were here for a long time.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:39:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:
If China had reached America, they would of stayed.

I dont think people realize how HARD it was for our ancestors to travel those distances. They would of had to cross the Atlantic. Or go into Alaska.

With the freezing cold by going in the Alaska region, I would say it would of been impossible. And for them to travel around the world and then make the longer trip across the Atlantic, I say impossible.

Plus they did not have the technology that the Pilgrims did as far as shipmaking skills.

China is being fed propaganda, as usual. Another posted mentioned, China is a nationalistic country that tells its poeple they are superior and the chosen nation to be the last nation on Earth.

But then again, the Native American Indians could almost pass as "asian". I would say that the Indians were always here though. They had quite a population when the pilgrims landed, which means they were here for a long time.



I maybe misunderstood this post. And admittedly, I'm no geographer, but wouldn't the Chinese's easiest route to the US have been across the Pacific rather than circumnavigating the globe and coming by the Atlantic route?
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:42:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 11:46:49 AM EDT by MonkeyGrip]
OK. They can have Mexico and California then, and we'll throw in New York as a gesture of good will.

Actually,

<­BR>



I discovered America.



Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:42:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 11:43:22 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
...the Vikings also supposedly sailed the UK/Greenland coastline and found Canada, according to some ancient maps reportedly found.



Supposedly? Reportedly?


The original record of the Viking trips to North America (the Vinland sagas) are contained in Copenhagen's Royal Library.

It is a historical fact that Vikings not only sailed to North America, but established at least one settlement. The settlement failed, however, in part due to some fighting with Native Americans, but mostly due to strife withint the two main families in the settlement. The details are in the saga.

It is not known precisely how far down the vikings explored on the north American coastline. Easily down to the New York area - and some researchers claim that they might have travelled as far south as Florida (although that is mostly speculation).
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:45:02 AM EDT
So what if the Chinese were here first? They ain't here now!

We were settled by the Euroweenies and that's that.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:48:22 AM EDT
you remember those blunderbusses that had damascous steel and blew up or cracked? Cheap Chinese imports...and the ships that sank that nobody ever talks about...chinese hulls...
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:48:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 12:00:00 PM EDT by ImplementOfWar]

Originally Posted By ARKAN_the_Tiger:

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:
If China had reached America, they would of stayed.

I dont think people realize how HARD it was for our ancestors to travel those distances. They would of had to cross the Atlantic. Or go into Alaska.

With the freezing cold by going in the Alaska region, I would say it would of been impossible. And for them to travel around the world and then make the longer trip across the Atlantic, I say impossible.

Plus they did not have the technology that the Pilgrims did as far as shipmaking skills.

China is being fed propaganda, as usual. Another posted mentioned, China is a nationalistic country that tells its poeple they are superior and the chosen nation to be the last nation on Earth.

But then again, the Native American Indians could almost pass as "asian". I would say that the Indians were always here though. They had quite a population when the pilgrims landed, which means they were here for a long time.



I maybe misunderstood this post. And admittedly, I'm no geographer, but wouldn't the Chinese's easiest route to the US have been across the Pacific rather than circumnavigating the globe and coming by the Atlantic route?



Yes, But do you know how massive the Pacific Ocean is? There is no way they would of been able to store enough food and water to make the trip. It would of took them over 3 months. The Atlantic is much shorter, but still a VERY tough journey with the technology at the time.

If they went the Alaska/Russia route, the waves are about 30 feet high and the temperature below 0. An impossible journey. You ever watch the show "Worlds toughest jobs" on discovery? Even the crab fishers with large ships, the waves break the bow of the ships.

Even traveling the Atlantic the waves can get as high as 100 feet.

Either journey is a miracle.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:55:31 AM EDT
Ah BS!! We all know it's only "white man's history" that is important.


Link Posted: 1/17/2006 12:03:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 12:04:52 PM EDT by warlord]
There is 4 pages of comments on ARFCOM on this subject here:
BBC-China map lays claim to Americas
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 12:24:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
I've seen somewhere the Chinese had huge ships, somthing like hundred and hundreds of feet long and wide. Some such dynasty or something, not my area. Someone could google it. Used them for trading purposes. Then some other such people took power and Naval traditions died off.



I think they were called Baodes. Zheng He the chinsese/muslim eunech used them to sail to Africa.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 12:29:02 PM EDT
Big whoop.

They don't have any claim.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 2:02:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 3:07:38 PM EDT by RiffRandall]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
...the Vikings also supposedly sailed the UK/Greenland coastline and found Canada, according to some ancient maps reportedly found.



Supposedly? Reportedly?


The original record of the Viking trips to North America (the Vinland sagas) are contained in Copenhagen's Royal Library.

It is a historical fact that Vikings not only sailed to North America, but established at least one settlement. The settlement failed, however, in part due to some fighting with Native Americans, but mostly due to strife withint the two main families in the settlement. The details are in the saga.

It is not known precisely how far down the vikings explored on the north American coastline. Easily down to the New York area - and some researchers claim that they might have travelled as far south as Florida (although that is mostly speculation).



+1
All hail Vinnland!

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 2:08:59 PM EDT
In one of the DNA tests I quoted in the original thread, 23% of a group of South American Indians had Chinese DNA
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:07:51 PM EDT
Fuck China!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:09:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:
Yes, But do you know how massive the Pacific Ocean is? There is no way they would of been able to store enough food and water to make the trip. It would of took them over 3 months. The Atlantic is much shorter, but still a VERY tough journey with the technology at the time.



They could have hopped across the Pacific using Polynesia as replenishing stops.

NTM
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:14:54 PM EDT
To defeat China, all we need to do is reintroduce them to OPIUM ! It kept them down for centuries. Let's do it again.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:23:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 4:27:23 PM EDT by mjrowley]

Originally Posted By home_with_kids:
from the 1421 website:

The difficulty in writing the book was further increased by the fact that the majority of Chinese records, documents and maps recounting the dramatic events of the 1421 - 1423 voyages were deliberately destroyed by the officials of the Chinese court, following an abrupt change in the country's foreign policy


So I guess 1425 was the year China shoved its head up its ass and pretended the rest of world didn't exist.

Follow through, boys, follow through.



It is so east to rewrite history when there are no known real records...

So I'm calling BS!

BTW: Read the Book of Mormon for the true history of the Americas
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