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Posted: 1/16/2006 12:03:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 12:07:52 PM EDT by UberPhLuBB]
I hear about more and more items being renewed with higher technology, and it scares me. I think my fear started with the F16 after I heard on a Discovery documentary that it cannot fly without it's computer. The brand new FA22 is the same way, without it's flight computers a pilot is incapable of maintaining stable flight. The F35, unlike the older Harrier which uses basic manually controlled avionics, is dependant upon a computer to hover. Without that computer, a pilot does not have the controls to maintain a hover. Now there's that thread about updated MLRS missiles containing guiding systems utilizing GPS.

I'm a computer guy and I get an eHard-on for technology, but doesn't anyone in the military think into the future? As our own technology develops further, so does our enemies'. As slow as technology is developing nowadays (as compared to the 1990s) it may not be an immediate threat, but antitechnology countermeasures WILL be developed to combat technology dependant war machines. All of our bombs, missiles, aircraft, land vehicles, ships, countermeasures, satellite communications, and if some leftists have their way, even small arms, will be able to be neutralized by an EMP weapon. Not all of them now, but it's only a matter of time before every piece of machinery we use will be dependant upon a computer to function and thus susceptible to incapacitation with such ease it's frightening. The enemy need only push a single button to cripple the entire military, from top to bottom.

I'm not the tin foil hat type, but I am genuinely fearful of the US's continued military prowess in the near future.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:08:02 PM EDT
I personally miss the glory days of swords, axes, maces and the such.

More civilized weapons for a more civilized time.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:08:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:08:47 PM EDT
Not all will be neutralized by EMP.
Mil electronics are designed to handle EMP.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:09:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:10:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?



You just direct all power to the main deflector dish.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:12:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:


No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



Some is and some isn't. Some .mil gear isn't even hardened against the RF energy that a typical ship puts out let alone EMP.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:13:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?



Faraday Cage.
You can build your own to protect commo gear from EMP in case of SHTF.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:13:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?



Shielding.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:13:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?




Seek, and you shall find.

EMP hardening
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:17:37 PM EDT
Alot of the electronics I read about getting put into mil units are rad hardened.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:18:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 12:19:37 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?



It is called being misinformed... Not really your fault caused mostly because you assume everything you hear is factually true.

You protect against EMP by shielding… literally putting a metal shield around what you want to protect. Or by designing the electronics to be robust enough to handle EMP.


Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:19:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:20:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?

\

It is called being misinformed... mostly because you assume everything you hear is factually true.

You protect against EMP by shielding… literally putting a metal shield around what you want to protect. Or by designing the electronics to be robust enough to handle EMP.





And carbon nanotube fabric does a even better job of shielding electronics than metal...
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:21:39 PM EDT
Essentially you can either shield the electronics (Circuitry), or go overboard on the wiring.

An EMP is basically just a massive amount of energy which takes the path of least resistance (circuitry and wiring) and in the process usually fries them. When a wire or a circuit has a charge going through it, that charge usually generates heat due to impedence. Impedence is basically too much flow trying to go through too small a channel, which generates heat (imagine it like friction, though its not actually friction its just an analogy).

SO An EMP fries electronics by trying to cram so much energy through too small of a conduit generating heat , the heat then destroys the actual component.

This can be avoided by either surrounding your deleicate electronics with a VERY conductive material that will "Soak" up that charge, and by making your wiring either especially robust or nonconductive (fiberoptic).
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:22:19 PM EDT
To do that would require that they have technology themselves, which would cause them to lose whatever they have nearby as well. An e-bomb has only limited range. Us it on the battlefield, and you might stop your tanks and planes too. Or if it's caused by a nuke going off, then anyone there will probably have more important things to worry about, like the blast, heat, and radiation. And the EMP blast outside of those will still probably be strong enough to damage even simple electronics, like the electrical system of vehicles.

Sorry, but as an end user, I prefer to have the advantages of the technology. Otherwise we should just be fearful and go back to swords and battle axes.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:36:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?



Because it's not the military's job to inform you of it. In fact it's part of the military's job to NOT inform you of it. It's called "security classification". If you don't know about it, then they're actually doing their job.

Remember the "GPS jammers" that the Iraqis had that were taken out by GPS guided bombs? Guess that "GPS jammer" stuff wasn't all it was cracked up to be, or maybe.....just maybe someone had thought about a "jammer" ahead of time and took steps to counter that.

Is it really so hard for people to fathom that the military actually knows what it's doing once in a while?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:37:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 12:42:37 PM EDT by pcsutton]

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By vito113:

No they won't.... .Mil gear is EMP hardened



How so? Why don't I ever hear about protection? Just new computers this, new computers that.

How can you protect against EMP?



A grounded Faraday Cage surrounding the equipment will shield it. You can lessen the effects of EMP if equipment isn't connected to the power grid and has no leads running to it such as an antenna lead.

I keep an HF radio unhooked and stored in a shielded metal storage box so I will still have HF radio capability in the event of an EMP.

ETA: I gots a laptop in with it so I use digital comms like MT63. EMP happens....most civilian electronics will cease to function. Especially anything with an integrated circuit in it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:40:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 12:42:13 PM EDT by UberPhLuBB]

Originally Posted By Ross:
Because it's not the military's job to inform you of it. In fact it's part of the military's job to NOT inform you of it. It's called "security classification". If you don't know about it, then they're actually doing their job.

Remember the "GPS jammers" that the Iraqis had that were taken out by GPS guided bombs? Guess that "GPS jammer" stuff wasn't all it was cracked up to be, or maybe.....just maybe someone had thought about a "jammer" ahead of time and took steps to counter that.

Is it really so hard for people to fathom that the military actually knows what it's doing once in a while?



V22 Osprey...

Where's the information about effective shielding come from? Link? I want a notarized, declassified federal document signed by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell or Bush hard-mailed to me as proof.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:47:59 PM EDT

V22 Osprey...

Where's the information about effective shielding come from? Link? I want a notarized, declassified federal document signed by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell or Bush hard-mailed to me as proof.




Not even a pretty please????
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:04:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:

Originally Posted By Ross:
Because it's not the military's job to inform you of it. In fact it's part of the military's job to NOT inform you of it. It's called "security classification". If you don't know about it, then they're actually doing their job.

Remember the "GPS jammers" that the Iraqis had that were taken out by GPS guided bombs? Guess that "GPS jammer" stuff wasn't all it was cracked up to be, or maybe.....just maybe someone had thought about a "jammer" ahead of time and took steps to counter that.

Is it really so hard for people to fathom that the military actually knows what it's doing once in a while?



V22 Osprey...

Where's the information about effective shielding come from? Link? I want a notarized, declassified federal document signed by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell or Bush hard-mailed to me as proof.



It's "in the mail"

Actually the V-22 is going to be pretty well hardened against EMP. Anything that operates off of ships gets exposed to WAY more EMP and other radiations from the systems of the ship, like it's radar, commo, etc. than anything operating from a land base. For instance we in Army Aviation couldn't use our rockets when operating off of a ship because "back in the day" our rockets weren't shielded and they could go off by themsleves from the EMP that the ship would put out. We had to use the rockets the USMC buys (same ones, just with shielding) if we were operating off of ship. That's just one example out of many things that get thought of ahead of time that have to do with things like EMP.

It is assumed that any government that can make a nuclear bomb can make an EMP generator for simulated tests as well. We can make a nuclear bomb. I can tell you that the UH-60A was tested EARLY in it's lifetime against EMP, and Blackhawks aren't going to fall out of the sky from EMP. The logical deduction should be that other items of equipment have been tested as well.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:32:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
You just direct all power to the main deflector dish.



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