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Posted: 1/15/2006 4:59:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 6:15:14 PM EDT by TrashHeap]
I dragged this over here from the NYHT forum. Sad, just sad.

From New York State Rifle and Pistol Association:

Session Highlights

Session starts
Sheldon Silver’s opening remarks.
Most comprehensive antigun package ever.
Ban armor-piercing ammo.
………
Much bloviating by Silver on other issues
………
Paul Tokasz’s opening remarks.
Shorter than Silver, just as boring.
James Tedisco’s opening remarks.
Actually says NY has “Brightest group of elected officials on earth.”
Safer 2006 because of gun package passed in special session
………
New introductions, speeches, BS from members.
………
………
Finally done, Ivan Lafayette starts calling bills
First bill is Erie Co. tax bill A-9081
Mark Schroeder goes off about it

Voting done, gun bills start

First is A-2404

Requires the judge in a criminal proceeding or in a family court proceeding, upon
issuance of an order of protection, to inquire as to the ownership of a firearm by the defendant or respondent.

No comments, voting 134-0

Next is A-673A

Enacts the "Children's Weapon Accident Prevention Act"; creates crimes of
failure to store a weapon safely in the first and second degrees, aggravated failure to store a
weapon, and criminally negligent storage of a weapon in the first and second degrees; provides
affirmative defenses; directs the commissioner of education to develop a weapons safety program.

Harvey Weisenberg speaks for his bill, Bill has passed for the last 13 years, usually
gets 30 negative votes due to pressure from “certain lobbying groups” “This is not an antigun bill”
Talks about the old shoe display New Yorkers Against Gun Violence set up years ago
Quotes from press releases about 4 year olds with guns 1400 child gun deaths in the US, 200 could have been prevented
Dan Burling speaks in opposition Many people in my district have guns for personal protection, no ready access to police.
Dan asks if keeping loaded .38 revolver in top-drawer illegal?
Harvey replies, “it’s not a violation of law”
Dan says he keeps his .38 in dresser next to bed, asks if he would be prosecuted if a child got
access to his gun, not stolen, by a houseguest.
Harvey, “that to me would be negligence”
Dan, would be penalizing lawful gun owners

Voting begins

Harvey explains his vote, mentions NRA gun safety
Nancy Calhoun explains her vote, knows neighbor who lost his life when an intruder broke in his house,
was stabbed several times, wife sexually assaulted, crawled to bathroom to get to revolver, shot the intruder. Votes against.
David Townsend explains vote. Former police. Keep guns locked when not in possession. Votes for bill, calls it child safety.

Final vote 103-32.

A-1170

Provides that a person who has been convicted of a felony offense and who is issued a
certificate of good conduct or relief from disabilities shall not be entitled to obtain a
firearm license or to lawfully possess a rifle or shotgun.

No comments, voting begins.

Final vote 132-0.

A-2213

Provides for the submission by state and local law enforcement authorities of expended
projectiles and shell casings and guns, found or otherwise coming into their possession, to the
state police pistol and revolver ballistic identification electronic databank; requires the
law enforcement agencies to make a record thereof and submit within 30 days.

David Koon speaks for his bill.Says Rochester police told him that guns they find don’t go into COBIS.
Wants to add crime scene guns.
Dan Burling speaks in opposition. Asks David explain COBIS, he does.
Dan asks how many COBIS convictions there are?
David, none so far. Says there’s normally a 7-year delay.
Dan doesn’t know where that statistic comes from. Asks will there be any convictions next year?
David, ignores question. Put COBIS labs all overthe state. Police don’t want to send evidence to Albany.
Dan, how much has COBIS cost per year?
David, says he doesn’t know. Says this year Maryland go their first hit.
Dan, bill well intentioned, no results, unknown fiscal impact, no practical effect
Will Stephens speaks, asks about Maryland
David, says similar system in several states plus ATF
Will, asks about control issues with evidence in criminal trial. Asks if he knows if Maryland has had any success?
David, one in a murder case

Voting begins, final tally 90-44.

A-2302

Proscribes persons, firms or corporations engaged in the retail business of selling
firearms from selling, delivering or transferring "child operated" firearms; defines
"child- operated" firearm to mean a pistol or revolver manufactured 1 year after the effective
date of these provisions which does not contain a childproofing device or mechanism incorporated
into the design of such pistol or revolver to effectively preclude an average 5 year old from firing same.

Steve Englebright speaks for his bill
Will Stephens speaks, does this mean keeping a lock on gun?
Steve, not specifically, 10 pound trigger pull, some “patent” for something that fits on gun??
Will, please explain this
Steve, it fits on back of pistol, an adult would know how to activate it in 3 seconds. I have no
idea what he’s talking about. Neither does he.
Will, who is responsible for determining whether a device is in compliance?
Steve, police in co-operation with gun manufactures.
Will, any consideration to elderly or disabled who might not be able to operate it
Steve, one should bear in mind that in 98% of the time brandishing a gun is enough to deter
criminals. Elderly who cannot handle 10 pound trigger shouldn’t have guns.
Will, friends keep “hair trigger” for competition

Voting begins, passes 92-42.

A-2466A

Amends the definition of assault weapon to include additional weapons; defines the terms
"detachable magazine", "muzzle break" and "muzzle compensator"; authorizes the division of state
police to promulgate rules and regulations for the addition of information identifying assault
weapons lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2006 to the pistol and revolver ballistic identification databank.

John Lavelle speaks for his bill, Repeals AW in New York, add new definition. Police determine AWs not suitable for sporting use
Pat Manning speaks in opposition
Pat, why are you doing this? Why defined as spray shooting?
John, must be defined that way because gun makers find loopholes, guns kill people
Pat, any firearm can kill people. Anyone who knows guns knows these shoot single shot, not
full auto. The definition you use is flawed.
John, say he doesn’t believe Pat’s definition.
Pat, you’re now redefining AWs as semi-autos which can’t spray bullets
John, current law defines semi-autos as AWs
Pat, no it doesn’t. Knows John didn’t write the actual bill. Bill is badly written. Can you redefine the definition?
John, says he bill is correct.
Pat, agrees to disagree. Why are we going to change the number of characteristics of an AW
from 2 to 1? If we move to 1 characteristic, we come into a whole list of handguns, hunting rifles and shotguns
John, says they would be grandfathered
Pat, they would be if that was included in your bill. His patience is wearing thin …
John, you can register with police. “I don’t think that’s two onerous.”
Pat, what were the two police killed with (last year.)
John, not an AW
Pat, on the record, the police were killed with a .44 not affected by this bill.
Pat, on the bill, we will vigorously oppose bad legislation. Bill will affect legal gun owners,
hunters. Don’t go there. To add in these is not the way. This is the first time a bill would
include handguns including Olympic-style handguns. Will effectively kill sport hunting if
we keep putting up bills like this.

Voting begins, passes 89-43.

A-2837,

Includes possession of armor piercing, frangible or "devastator" ammunition as criminal possession of a weapon.
David Koon speaks in favor of his bill.
Redefines AP ammo as polymer-tipped and frangible
Dan Burling speaks in opposition.
Dan, is this ammo a problem?
David, AP already banned.
Dan, is this currently being used?
David, no. Can penetrate body armor.
Dan, so no evidence of police vests penetrated? What is currently defined as AP?
David, gives definition.
Dan, has .45. Most rifle ammo will go through vests.
David, bill is just for handguns.
Dan, will .500 S&W go through police vest? Yes, it will.
Dan, on the bill, no evidence this is a problem, not bill is needed.

Voting begins, passes 95-35.

A-4471,

Prohibits the sale, use or possession of .50-caliber or larger firearms.
Patricia Eddington speaks in favor of her bill.
Happy bill passed the last two sessions. Refers to 60 Minutes piece.
Dan Burling speaks in opposition.
Dan, Pat please tell us why we should fear legal ownership?
Pat, most dangerous in military. No purpose other than military. Dangerous to police, airplanes, helicopters.
Dan, this is a single shot .50?
Pat, yes.
Dan, people use this for sport, long range target shooting. Will this bill ban this?
Pat, would not ban all .50s. Not blackpowder.
Dan, believes this would ban any .50 rifle, not blackpowder.
Pat, says it is a centerfire cartridge.
Dan, do you know of any airlines shot down, other than in VietNam
Pat, no, but we can’t be sure it hasn’t happened before
Dan, how many people have been killed by .50s?
Pat, ignores question. It makes a big hole. “It’s accurate!”
Dan, tries boring in. Anyone killed by this gun? Yes or no.
Pat, firefighter and police dogged .50 in 2004.
Dan, let it be put on record that nobody has been killed.
Pat, do we always have to wait until somebody has been killed?
Dan, what happens when they come out with a .499 caliber?
Pat, I don’t know.
Dan, has had enough of Pat
Dan, on the bill, I don’t feel this weapon is a danger. What troubles me is the definition.
Rifles & shotguns. Shotguns have larger bore than .50s. Rifled slugs banned. No
hunting. Can only assume the intent the bill is
to ban more than the .50 rifle. Urge members to vote no.

Voting begins, Deborah Glick wants to commend the sponsor. Appreciates sportsmen, but tough
cookies. Says police don’t want .50s.
Marc Butler speaks. Broader impact on gun makers and shooters. More feel good legislation. No impact on crime.
Chuck Levine speaks. More than 30 years ago gun was used in VietNam for assassination. Helicopter downed in Mexico with .30-06. Doesn’t know if Founding Fathers would
have permitted “so lethal a weapon.” Don’t make it easy for terrorists.
Joel Miller speaks. Doesn’t know how many people have been bayoneted, hit with flash suppressors, or shot with this gun. If you want to get serious, put mandatory sentence on felons with handguns. “This is just fluff ... we will not save a single life.”

Final tally 87-46.

A-9280

Requires the creation and imposition of restrictive commercial practices and stringent
recordkeeping and reporting to prevent gun sales to criminals; requires liability insurance of at
least one million dollars; restricts premises of sales; imposes additional license conditions.

Amy Paulin speaks in favor of her bill. This addresses straw purchasers
Will Stephens, please explain
Amy, requires gun dealers to keep records for police tracking
Will, is that all the bill does? Liability insurance?
Amy, yes
Will, aren’t gun dealers regulated by federal law?
Amy, yes
Will, is there anything about gun storage?
Amy, yes, lock up guns
Will, what about dealers at gun shows?
Amy, not affected by current definition. We define where a gun dealer can sell.
Will, why is there a gun show definition in bill?
Amy, we just specify where dealers can sell
Will, how does this add to the legislation we passed in special session?
Amy, we passed A-2345
Will, this is the stuff dropped out of Assembly/Senate conference? Yes.
David Townsend speaks.
David, bill requires dealers have liability insurance? Why don’t car dealers have this type of insurance?
Amy, car dealers have insurance
David, that’s vicarious liability, which NYS wouldn’t deal with. Why this bill only for gun dealers, not anyone else?
Amy, similar to armored cars
David, is there strict liability for car dealers?
Amy, we’re not creating another cause of action
David, victim has cause of action against person who shot them, not dealer
Amy, that doesn’t change under this bill
David, then why are we doing this?
Amy, firearms are dangerous
David, back in 1993 when we started this, we had a display of crime guns confiscated by
police. When the guns were sitting there, not a single gun went off by itself? Why are you holding dealers liable?
Amy, recalls her days as a lobbyist in Westchester. She worked closely with gun
owners. If you put a lock on guns, there is a hazard. Don’t play with guns. I would want to be shown how to use locks.
David, after the sale, the dealer should still be liable?
Amy, yes, if court decided it
David, what does bill do over and above federal statue?
Amy, doesn’t know.
David, did you look at federal law?
Amy, it’s a recordkeeping bill. Federal law doesn’t require this. Justice Dept. found only
4.5% of gun dealers inspected by ATF. Feds don’t do good job.
David, what’s the difference between your definition of straw purchases and existing law?
Amy, we address the gun dealers. We hold them accountable.
(Pause as there is some confusion over time. Ivan Lafayette says they’re ok.)
David, gun locks on sale, other requirements
Amy, we have an interstate trafficking problem. Start rambling off statistics. Federal
laws are almost irrelevant as they don’t do enough.
David, expands upon federal statues?
Amy, says they don’t require records on long guns just handguns
David, we don’t require dealers keep records for long guns?
Amy, yes
David, on the bill, this will be drain on police, just feel-good to infringe upon rights of lawful dealers and individuals

Voting begins, passes 89-45.

Link Posted: 1/15/2006 7:16:31 PM EDT
If you want a reply, you might want to sum that up for us.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 7:25:11 PM EDT
Basically the Assembly is steamrolling as many of the 25 anti-gun bills through as they can. The votes don't even appear to be close. Heres hoping the Senate can kill most if not all of them.

Sent more emails to my rep, but she votes for these things every time.....
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 7:34:12 PM EDT
Ouch!

If those pass y'all are in a BIGGER world of hurt *shakes head*
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 7:41:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 7:41:39 PM EDT by bulldog1967]
The words Liberals and thinking in your subject line threw me off there....
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:03:38 PM EDT
Six more months in this hellhole!

Red state or BUST!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:09:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:16:53 PM EDT
Can we just declare war on the Democratic Party already?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:23:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Can we just declare war on the Democratic Party already?



+1

They've moved further to the left and fell into a pile of BS.

Problem is they seem to enjoy the pile of BS!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:28:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Can we just declare war on the Democratic Party already?

\

War on the dumocrates sounds good to me.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:39:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 9:40:33 PM EDT by clement]


Will, any consideration to elderly or disabled who might not be able to operate it
Steve, one should bear in mind that in 98% of the time brandishing a gun is enough to deter
criminals. Elderly who cannot handle 10 pound trigger shouldn’t have guns.



Holy sheet, what a jackass!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:49:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
At least you don't get the press that California does.

The problem with these mega-states is that each politician has to out do the next to get some media time coming up with wilder and crazier liberal solutions than the last one. They need to get three or four bills before the state senate each ... and when you've got a couple hundred of them that means lots of bills and lots of whacked out ideas/spending. It's a cycle that won't stop with these clowns.



I can think of one mega state where that is not the case.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:56:40 PM EDT
You ought to read that whole post.

The "AP" ammo bill also makes it a felony to possess FRANGIBLE AMMO!
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 9:57:43 PM EDT
The phrase "liberal thinking" is an oxymoron.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:31:47 PM EDT
A-2466A

Amends the definition of assault weapon to include additional weapons; defines the terms
"detachable magazine", "muzzle break" and "muzzle compensator"; authorizes the division of state
police to promulgate rules and regulations for the addition of information identifying assault
weapons lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2006 to the pistol and revolver ballistic identification databank.

from 2 to 1? If we move to 1 characteristic, we come into a whole list of handguns, hunting rifles and shotguns
John, says they would be grandfathered
Pat, they would be if that was included in your bill. His patience is wearing thin …
John, you can register with police. “I don’t think that’s two onerous.”
Pat, what were the two police killed with (last year.)
John, not an AW
Pat, on the record, the police were killed with a .44 not affected by this bill.
Pat, on the bill, we will vigorously oppose bad legislation. Bill will affect legal gun owners,
hunters. Don’t go there. To add in these is not the way. This is the first time a bill would
include handguns including Olympic-style handguns. Will effectively kill sport hunting if
we keep putting up bills like this.

Voting begins, passes 89-43.

WTF!!

A-4471,

Prohibits the sale, use or possession of .50-caliber or larger firearms.
Patricia Eddington speaks in favor of her bill.
Happy bill passed the last two sessions. Refers to 60 Minutes piece.
Dan Burling speaks in opposition.
Dan, Pat please tell us why we should fear legal ownership?
Pat, most dangerous in military. No purpose other than military. Dangerous to police, airplanes, helicopters.
Dan, this is a single shot .50?
Pat, yes.
Dan, people use this for sport, long range target shooting. Will this bill ban this?
Pat, would not ban all .50s. Not blackpowder.
Dan, believes this would ban any .50 rifle, not blackpowder.
Pat, says it is a centerfire cartridge.
Dan, do you know of any airlines shot down, other than in VietNam
Pat, no, but we can’t be sure it hasn’t happened before
Dan, how many people have been killed by .50s?
Pat, ignores question. It makes a big hole. “It’s accurate!”
Dan, tries boring in. Anyone killed by this gun? Yes or no.
Pat, firefighter and police dogged .50 in 2004.
Dan, let it be put on record that nobody has been killed.
Pat, do we always have to wait until somebody has been killed?
Dan, what happens when they come out with a .499 caliber?
Pat, I don’t know.

Dan, has had enough of Pat
Dan, on the bill, I don’t feel this weapon is a danger. What troubles me is the definition.
Rifles & shotguns. Shotguns have larger bore than .50s. Rifled slugs banned. No
hunting. Can only assume the intent the bill is
to ban more than the .50 rifle. Urge members to vote no.

Voting begins, Deborah Glick wants to commend the sponsor. Appreciates sportsmen, but tough
cookies. Says police don’t want .50s.
Marc Butler speaks. Broader impact on gun makers and shooters. More feel good legislation. No impact on crime.
Chuck Levine speaks. More than 30 years ago gun was used in VietNam for assassination. Helicopter downed in Mexico with .30-06. Doesn’t know if Founding Fathers would
have permitted “so lethal a weapon.”
Don’t make it easy for terrorists.
Joel Miller speaks. Doesn’t know how many people have been bayoneted, hit with flash suppressors, or shot with this gun. If you want to get serious, put mandatory sentence on felons with handguns. “This is just fluff ... we will not save a single life.”

Final tally 87-46.

Some people should do us all a favor and just stop breathing...
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:59:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TRW:
Six more months in this hellhole!

Red state or BUST!



Where are you going?

I'm heading west to CO
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:47:40 AM EDT
Does anyone in a free state have a guest house I can rent?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:24:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pgfd195:
Does anyone in a free state have a guest house I can rent?



Depends. What do you have that'll make it worth my while? It's not like you've got any EBR's to trade me.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:10:01 AM EDT
Wow... just... wow...
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:27:07 AM EDT
Chuck Levine speaks. More than 30 years ago gun was used in VietNam for assassination. Helicopter downed in Mexico with .30-06. Doesn’t know if Founding Fathers would
have permitted “so lethal a weapon.” Don’t make it easy for terrorists.
Joel Miller speaks. Doesn’t know how many people have been bayoneted, hit with flash suppressors, or shot with this gun. If you want to get serious, put mandatory sentence on felons with handguns. “This is just fluff ... we will not save a single life.”

Final tally 87-46.

Don't worry folks, they'll never come for your hunting rifles... after all, the 2nd Amendment guarantees you that!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:28:50 AM EDT
Actually the Whole "frangable" ammo thing has me more than puzzeled. The only ammo that i can think of that is like this is the "bee-safe" or "mag-safe" stuff that is meant to prevent the bullet from going through walls! it does not penetrate Body armor nor does it do more damage. (actually they claim it does but that claim is disputed by Facklerites!) So not that liberal gun banners make any sense but that makes no sense. Also they seem not to understand the difference between caliber and cartridge!!! (wow what a suprise!) rather than banning a .50 BMG they are going to ban all .50 cal weapons because they can "take out a Jumbo jet??" I guess that includes 10 gauge with rock salt!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:32:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Actually the Whole "frangable" ammo thing has me more than puzzeled. The only ammo that i can think of that is like this is the "bee-safe" or "mag-safe" stuff that is meant to prevent the bullet from going through walls! it does not penetrate Body armor nor does it do more damage. (actually they claim it does but that claim is disputed by Facklerites!) So not that liberal gun banners make any sense but that makes no sense. Also they seem not to understand the difference between caliber and cartridge!!! (wow what a suprise!) rather than banning a .50 BMG they are going to ban all .50 cal weapons because they can "take out a Jumbo jet??" I guess that includes 10 gauge with rock salt!



By frangible ammo, they mean the pressed stuff that a lot of people use to shoot steel with. Even some LE agencies with indoor ranges have gone to frang, lead free ammo due to lead concerns. Their concern appears to be that bad guys will be shooting people with this stuff and because it breaks apart, they wont have a retrievable bullet to use as evidence. Never mind that the frang stuff doesn't readily break up irretrievably in tissue AFAIK, and even regular bullets often break up and are unuseable for evidenciary purposes.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:32:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:34:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 10:34:34 AM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
Chuck Levine speaks. More than 30 years ago gun was used in VietNam for assassination. Helicopter downed in Mexico with .30-06. Doesn’t know if Founding Fathers would
have permitted “so lethal a weapon.” Don’t make it easy for terrorists.
Joel Miller speaks. Doesn’t know how many people have been bayoneted, hit with flash suppressors, or shot with this gun. If you want to get serious, put mandatory sentence on felons with handguns. “This is just fluff ... we will not save a single life.”

Final tally 87-46.

Don't worry folks, they'll never come for your hunting rifles... after all, the 2nd Amendment guarantees you that!





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