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Posted: 1/15/2006 7:51:53 AM EDT
Saw a show on war gaming last night. They made mention of how the Marines are training for closer combat and the drills they are using now.

There was also a thread on this training last fall I think.

Anyone got a link to these new training drills?

Link Posted: 1/15/2006 7:54:26 AM EDT
Tag for an answer
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:07:39 AM EDT
Well "92fs" should know since he has, apparently, just returned from Marine Corps boot camp.


Tagged awaiting the official answer.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:21:47 AM EDT
part of it is called EMP or enhanced marksmanship program. i had to go throught the basic, first part of the course before i got deployed. it's all shooting at 0-50m. i don't remember the courses of fire but it's all quick/snap shooting, double tapping, and failure to stop drills.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:22:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 8:27:56 AM EDT by drjarhead]
STLRN posted this a while back and I saved it:

Enjoy

Marin­es Practice new course of fire


Stage 1:
1 Single shot from the ready X 2, 3 seconds per
1 CP from the ready X 2, 5 seconds per
1 HP from the ready X 2m 3 seconds per
1 AP from the ready X 2, 5 seconds per

Total: 16 rounds.

Stage 2:
1 shot standing, 1 shot unsupported kneeling X 2, 5 seconds per
1 CP standing, 1 CP unsupported kneeling X 2, 6 seconds per
1 HP standing, 1 HP unsupported kneeling X 2, 4 seconds per
1 AP standing, 1 AP unsupported kneeling X 2, 6 seconds per

Total: 32 rounds
Stage 3:
1 shot standing at left target, 1 shot kneeling to the right hand target
X 2, 5 seconds per
1 CP standing at left target, 1 CP kneeling to the right hand target X
2, 6 seconds per
1 HP standing at left target, 1 HP kneeling to the right hand target X
2, 4 seconds per
1 AP standing at left target, 1 AP kneeling to the right hand target X
2, 8 seconds per

Total: 32 rounds.

The course can be fired on whichever range is available 60/80 at 25 yds = passing, 40/80 at 50 yds = passing

CP = Controlled Pair
HP = Hammer Pair (Two shots as fast as possible no sighting in for second shot)
AP = HP+A single aimed shot two Targets
Any Sling, no ACOG or forward handle.



Standard E silouhette with a inverted 4" triangle at the bridge of the yes down and a 10" circle in the chest.

The course is intend to be transitional training for table III, which MOS and TO/E specific. There also is an ACOG shooters' course that in itself has its own qualification.

ACOG

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

BZO 10

EACH SHOOTER WILL BZO THEIR WEAPON AT THE 36, YARD LINE. THEY WILL DO THIS IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE POSITION. THE STAGES OF FIRE ARE AS FOLLOWS:

(Note: 100m Zero, tip of chevron 3 clicks moves strike of rd 1 inch at 36yds 9ck=1in elv & wdg on standard mil. zero target using tip of reticle)

1. 3 ROUNDS SLOW FIRE.
2. 3 ROUNDS SLOW FIRE.
3. 4 ROUNDS TO CONFIRM BZO.

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

POSITION SHOOTING 20

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE FROM THE 36,YARD LINE. THEY WILL ENGAGE MULTABLE ECHO TARGETS WITH EIGHT-INCH TARGET AREA, FROM THE FOLLOWING POSITIONS. 20 SECONDS PER POSITION

1. 5 ROUNDS FROM THE STANDING POSITION.
2. 5 ROUNDS FROM THE STANDING TO THE KNEELING POSITION.
3. 5 ROUND THE STANDING TO THE SQUATING POSITION.
4. 5 ROUNDS FROM STANDING TO SUPPORTED PRONE POSITION.

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

STATIONARY TARGETS 60

EACH SHOOTER WILL START FROM THE STANDING POSITION FOR EACH STAGE OF FIRE. STAGES 1-2 THE SHOOTER WILL GO TO THE KNEELING. STAGES 3 THROUGH 6 THE SHOOTER WILL HAVE HIS CHOICE BUT ALL STAGES MUST START FROM THE STANDING.

1. 10 ROUNDS AT 50-100 METER TARGETS. - 40SEC
2. 10 ROUNDS AT 100-200 METER TARGETS. - 40SEC
3. 10 ROUNDS AT 200-400 METER TARGETS. - 60SEC
4. 10 ROUNDS AT 400-500 METER TARGETS. - 60SEC
5. 10 ROUNDS AT 500-600 METER TARGETS. - 90SEC
6. 10 ROUNDS AT 600-800 METER TARGETS. - 120SEC

* IF THE RANGE DOES NOT ALLOW OMIT STAGES 5-6

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

MULITPLE TARGETS 20

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE. THE STAGES OF FIRE ARE AS FOLLOWS:

ENGAGE TWO TARGETS 100-300 METERS A TIME LIMIT OF 10 SECONDS. SHOOTERS WILL ONLY FIRE TWO ROUNDS, ONE AT EACH TARGET. TOTAL OF FIVE TIMES

ENGAGE TWO TARGETS 300-500 METERS A TIME LIMIT OF 20 SECONDS. SHOOTERS WILL ONLY FIRE TWO ROUNDS, ONE AT EACH TARGET. TOTAL OF FIVE TIMES

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

MOVING TARGETS 30
IF AVAILABLE

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE. THE STAGES OF FIRE ARE AS FOLLOWS:

1. 10 ROUNDS AT THE 100-METER TARGETS ENGAGING 1 TARGET MOVING LEFT TO RIGHT, AND 1 TARGET MOVING RIGHT TO LEFT. 5 TIMES EACH WAY.
2. REPEAT THE STAGE OF FIRE AT THE 200-METER LINE.
3. REPEAT THE STAGE OF FIRE AT THE 300-METER LINE.

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

LOW-LIGHT TARGET ENGAGEMENT 30

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE. THE STAGES OF FIRE ARE AS FOLLOWS:

1. ENGAGE 10 TARGETS AT 100 METERS.
2. REPEAT AT THE 200 METERS.
3. REPEAT AT THE 300 METERS.

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

UNKNOWN DISTANCE 55

EACH SHOOTER WILL FIRE IN THE SUPPORTED PRONE. THEY WILL HAVE 55 ROUNDS TO ENGAGE TARGETS OUT TO 800 METERS. THEY WILL USE THIS STAGE OF FIRE TO DEVELOP DATA FOR THEIR UNKNOWN DISTANCE SHOOTING TECHNIQUES.

NOTE: ENGAGE TARGETS OUT AS FAR AS THE RANGE WILL ALLOW

EVENT ROUNDS PER SHOOTER

QUALIFICATION 20

ENGAGE 5 TARGETS AT RANGES BETWEEN 50-100 METERS FROM THE STANDING OR TO THE KNEELING POSITION WITHIN 20 SECONDS. HIT FIVE OF FIVE TARGETS.

ENGAGE 5 TARGETS AT RANGES BETWEEN 100-300 METERS FROM THE STANDING TO KNEELING POSITION WITHIN 30 SECONDS. HIT FOUR OF FIVE TARGETS.

ENGAGE 5 TARGETS AT RANGES BETWEEN 300-500 METERS FROM THE STANDIND TO SUPPORTED PRONE POSITION WITHIN 45 SECONDS. HIT FOUR OF FIVE TARGETS.

ENGAGE 5 TARGETS AT RANGES BETWEEN 500-600 METERS FROM THE SUPPORTED POSITION WITHIN 60 SECONDS. HIT FOUR OF FIVE TARGETS.

* TOTAL OF 20 ROUNDS
* EACH SHOOTER MUST RECEIVE 16 HITS TO BE QUALIFIED
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 10:58:45 AM EDT
www.odcmp.com/Programs/MRIApp.pdf shows the CMP program for the US Army. SOF magazine has run articles in the last several months on military units (Army & Marine) getting training from Blackwater, CMP & others. Should be able to hit their web site for back issue articles?????

www.sofmag.com

No doubt there's some other programs the Marines are using, as well as these.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:03:40 AM EDT
A month or so ago, the Marines sent my son (a Lt.),and a bunch of other officers to Gunsite for training. He is on his way to Iraq right now. SOF magazine was there at that time taking photos, so maybe there will soon be an article about it.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:31:28 PM EDT
drjarhead....thanks. That's it.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:53:18 PM EDT
Give me a sec and I can show you pics of "soldiers, sailors and Marines" being led through the paces by yours truly...

us and the some of the German Naval Boarding Team shooting the course of fire with mixed weapons.

kiddos shooting during the Cpls course.

up close


It is fun and breaks the ice by letting you really get to see what you can do. Beats KD.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:58:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Give me a sec and I can show you pics of "soldiers, sailors and Marines" being led through the paces by yours truly...
i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Picture1245.jpg
us and the some of the German Naval Boarding Team shooting the course of fire with mixed weapons.
i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Picture841.jpg
kiddos shooting during the Cpls course.
i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Picture835.jpg
up close
i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Picture827.jpg

It is fun and breaks the ice by letting you really get to see what you can do. Beats KD.



Sweet pix
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:03:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 2:03:41 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Give me a sec and I can show you pics of "soldiers, sailors and Marines" being led through the paces by yours truly...
i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Picture1245.jpg
us and the some of the German Naval Boarding Team shooting the course of fire with mixed weapons.
i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Picture841.jpg
kiddos shooting during the Cpls course.
i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Picture835.jpg
up close
i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/mos2111/Picture827.jpg

It is fun and breaks the ice by letting you really get to see what you can do. Beats KD.





Very nice pictures...thanks!

Is there more to the story than what drjarhead put down? Looks like you are doing some walking and firing exercises.

Do you have the break down of the shooting exercises? Looks like these take place between 0-25 meters.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:08:44 PM EDT
Let me dig arround. I have the course of fire somewhere arround here...
There is a portion where you have to do a combat glide over about 10 yds and fire about 4 rnds. You have to do this also with the pistol course too. The hard part is keeping everyone on line with the rest of the group so that you dont have anyone down range or uprange while shooting.
It is alway funny to see people (other services too) not do the proper "groucho" or combat crouch. None of the youngings in the pics are doing a proper groucho. You have to have your legs bent, and knees bent and crouched over.
I have some more pics I will try to put up later.


For fun we tried doing it with a SAW too...
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:12:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Let me dig arround. I have the course of fire somewhere arround here...
There is a portion where you have to do a combat glide over about 10 yds and fire about 4 rnds. You have to do this also with the pistol course too. The hard part is keeping everyone on line with the rest of the group so that you dont have anyone down range or uprange while shooting.
It is alway funny to see people (other services too) not do the proper "groucho" or combat crouch. None of the youngings in the pics are doing a proper groucho. You have to have your legs bent, and knees bent and crouched over.
I have some more pics I will try to put up later.


For fun we tried doing it with a SAW too...




Thanks, I really appreciate this. I've been looking all over the net for the specifics and can't find anything. I'd like to add this to my personal practice. Just to add some spice to it.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:23:01 PM EDT
Cant find it right now, send me an Im and I will get it to you, it will help me remember.
MOS 2111
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:58:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jeep44:
A month or so ago, the Marines sent my son (a Lt.),and a bunch of other officers to Gunsite for training. He is on his way to Iraq right now. SOF magazine was there at that time taking photos, so maybe there will soon be an article about it.




They've already done this a time or two, IIRC????
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:34:17 PM EDT
lol, the drive out there can get interesting can't it? Plus, the djibs'll police up your brass for ya...
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:11:24 PM EDT

Bump
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:12:32 PM EDT
nice.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 2:47:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Let me dig arround. I have the course of fire somewhere arround here...
There is a portion where you have to do a combat glide over about 10 yds and fire about 4 rnds. You have to do this also with the pistol course too. The hard part is keeping everyone on line with the rest of the group so that you dont have anyone down range or uprange while shooting.
It is alway funny to see people (other services too) not do the proper "groucho" or combat crouch. None of the youngings in the pics are doing a proper groucho. You have to have your legs bent, and knees bent and crouched over.
I have some more pics I will try to put up later.


For fun we tried doing it with a SAW too...




Did you find it yet?

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 2:59:45 PM EDT
You guys seem to be talking mostly about practice for the sandbox. I just read a short article in American Rifleman today that said the Marines are changing their Qual. course from the KD. Is this the same thing you guys are referring to?
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 3:03:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 3:03:25 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By KorpiszZ389:
You guys seem to be talking mostly about practice for the sandbox. I just read a short article in American Rifleman today that said the Marines are changing their Qual. course from the KD. Is this the same thing you guys are referring to?




There is a new shooting practice protocal where..."There is a portion where you have to do a combat glide over about 10 yds and fire about 4 rnds. You have to do this also with the pistol course too. "


This is the one I was looking for. It's more for CQB drills.
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