Quoted: Hi Richard, good to see another GlockTalk refugee over here.  Also good to see the book is going well. I voted #5, but as an LEO myself, I may be a little biased.

Who were you on GT, bro?

Sorry, but when staff dragged my name in the mud because of unfounded (and very untrue) rumors, I decided the assholes here were more worthy of my time

You don't happen to know what happened to txleapd or specwes, do you?

Quoted: Quoted: 1. Are good people doing a tough job under scrutiny 2. On this board, are just like us and would bust ass to protect our rights If I could, I would vote for the two above. Since I can't, I won't. There are assholes in every profession. I figure LEOs are just seen more than other professions, so it may seem like there are more. You should work construction for a while... I would definitley not agree with #2....there are definitely some (very few, but some) on this board who would be first at your door to collect your guns if a ban was passed. And the first to shoot you and your wife, kids, and dog if you refused to comply...

I think some of them just like to stir the pot a little...

Quoted: Quoted: 1. Are good people doing a tough job under scrutiny 2. On this board, are just like us and would bust ass to protect our rights If I could, I would vote for the two above. Since I can't, I won't. There are assholes in every profession. I figure LEOs are just seen more than other professions, so it may seem like there are more. You should work construction for a while... I would definitley not agree with #2....there are definitely some (very few, but some) on this board who would be first at your door to collect your guns if a ban was passed. And the first to shoot you and your wife, kids, and dog if you refused to comply...

I respect your opinion.  Who?  I know of not one, so this is an honest question you can PM me to protect your anonymity if you'd like.  I find it hard to believe anyone here would do that.  

Quoted: Quoted:  A clean record does not make you qualified to police the public.  MHO.   Certainly not.  There is much more to it than that.  But a dirty record should certainly disqualify you.

I respect the hell out of you.  I must ask:

Is a police force who admits being fallible better than one that judges wih one side of experience?

Honest question, my friend.  

Personally, I'd rather be arrested by a former DUI that has stopped drinking than anyone who never imbibed.   You do not concur?

I voted fot good people under scrutiny and about 90% of 'em are but MANY(even out of those 90%) of them fall into the "I think im above you" mindset, it seems to be something that happens to alot of people when they put on the badge.
I have known quite a few good people who become LEO's and change into an elitist mindset, but what scares me more are those that will blindly follow ANY law irregardless of it being right or wrong because "They have too". They would rather enforce wrong laws than stand on principle

The thing is, nowadays, with cell phone cameras, video cameras, internet and instant communication, cops can't get away with the kinds of abuses they did years ago.  It is not that cops are worse now, it is that the few bads ones are more likely to be exposed.

Quoted: I think it varies widely between departments. I know one PD locally that are a bunch of assholes. They commit crimes and use their cop status to get off and they act like they are above everyone. I had a judge agree with me about the cops in this certain town. On the other hand, I have had totally positive interactions with some other departments. I think a huge amount of the division between so called "cop bashers" and "JBT apologists" simply comes from what the departments are like in their local area. Clearly if you live in/near a town where the cops are corrupt jerks you will always be suspicious of any cops actions. On the other hand, if all the cops you know are really nice, you are going to think people that complain about JBT's are really just people that got what they deserved and are distorting the facts afterwards.

+1
Coming from an area where way too many of the local city PD were from outside of town hired after wearing out their welcome (ie fired or otherwise encouraged to move on) at other, better paying cities by being abusive jerks.   Other winners were the townies who became city cops that fit the typical "loser in HS who now has a gun & badge".  Not all, not even a modest minority.
......where the county Sheriff's Dept was investigated by the Feds for rampant crooked BS & JBThuggery (including theft, a woman being raped by a jailer, people being held in the county jail with no charges being filed against them, and the manufacturing of evidence in a murder case, Grand Jury witness tampering, etc, etc....).  Sheriff ousted from office, County Commissioner who was a known associate crook with Sheriff convicted in Fed Court on extortion/bribery, sealed indictments held in reserve after Under Sheriff & others "took an early retirement" to avoid possible prison time....

...it's no wonder some folks look askance at LEO & tend to distrust anything & everything to do with them.  This coming from somebody whose godfather was a city cop gunned down in the line of duty, whose sister inlaw was a probation/parole officer, with two cousins that worked a deputies (one who went on to be a Juvie officer & later assistant fed prosecutor).

Quoted:
Is it taught to the cops that they should confiscate all of a homeowners guns when the homeowner uses ONE of them to take down an intruder? Is that one of the "rules" the blindly follow?

I don't know if it is taught but I can see the rationale. The only reason the citizen's gun is taken to begin with is to investigate to see if a shooting is justified or a murder. Assuming that you may be taking what could be a murder weapon, would you then leave the rest of the guns in the house? I see no problem with leaving the other guns if the shooting looks like nothing but self defense but I can also see the reasoning for taking other weapons also.


For the most part I think cops are more of a psychological and visual deterent than anything else. Show me statistics of how many cops prevent a crime in progress or before one happens as opposed to showing up to take a statement, fill out a report, and/or fill a body bag.

Not totally true but it has some validity. Yes, the police show up after most crimes are committed. With about one officer on duty for every 10,000 citizens, how would you expect one to show up at just the right place each time a major crime is committed. As hard as that it, the jails and pens are filled with people who were just that unlucky to meet a cop when he was committing a crime. An armed robber does not commit one robbery and quit his criminal career. He will do it until caught. More than likely, a patrolman will be in the right place at the right time and catch the guy in the act or in the immediate flight  from it. As far as filling the body bags and taking reports, that is true also. Do you suggest that we do not take reports or investigate a crime if we do not catch the suspect on the scene?

As for statistics on how many crimes did the police prevent, no such statistics exist nor will they likely ever exist. When an officer is  patrolling your neighborhood at 3:00am and scares a would be burglar out of the area, you will never know and the officer likely won't either. How do you measure how many crimes that were not committed? As you said in your statement, the police are a visual deterrent. That is quite obvious but how do you measure that deterrent? I guess one way would be to do away with all officers and after a year or so, look at the crime stats and see where they are compared to the last time you had police.


The idea of police keeps honest people honest. Criminals are still criminals and still commit crime, sometimes taing cops down with them.

The criminals will always be criminals. The jails are not overcrowded because the police are not catching them though. I love it when someone approaches me on the street and tells me that it does no good to report a crime to the police because we "never" catch anyone. When I ask how the jails and penitentiaries are overcrowded, it usually ends the conversation.

Well you got the us(cops) and them(everyone else) cops.
Then you got the us(cops) and them(criminals) cops.
Unfortunately, I think most are the first and ruin it for all.
Not bashing...

I think the majority are good, but I also think there are some that abuse their power. I'm generally more trusting of local LE than federal LE.

I could never be a cop... I'd let to many people off.
~Dg84

I think most are decent guys
but even a few of the good ones that   I have dealt with personally and in bussiness
do have a that doesn't apply to me attitude
I cannot tell you how many times i get " what do I need a handgun permit for Im a cop "
Well uh the state of nebraska says you need one not me , I have had a few get geniunely pissed at me because you cannot buy a handgun on your LEO ID here in nebraska Like its my fault
good thing you know the  law being a LEO and all

Hate to burst the bubble , but I would have to say I have met some of each type of poll choice . Bottom line they are people and it all depends on the the cop in question .

Quoted: I think most are decent guys but even a few of the good ones that   I have dealt with personally and in bussiness do have a that doesn't apply to me attitude I cannot tell you how many times i get " what do I need a handgun permit for Im a cop " Well uh the state of nebraska says you need one not me , I have had a few get geniunely pissed at me because you cannot buy a handgun on your LEO ID here in nebraska Like its my fault good thing you know the  law being a LEO and all

Had a similar situation when I was working at a gun shop. Had a guy come in and buy a Glock and since he had his CCW he walked with the gun as soon as we were done, whereas the Sheriff Deputy behind him who wanted to walk with his new Glock couldnt because he didnt have a CCW, he got REALLY upset and started badmouthing "Civilians" who could walk with guns when he had all the uber tactical mall ninja commando training and couldnt. I told him it was the State or ATF (dont remember which) Law and to take it up with them or get a permit. He was like, Im a cop I dont NEED a permit this is BS so I politely told him to take it up with the State or ATF

Since they are all also people, I would have to say "all of the above".

By and large, I would prefer to deal with "arfcommer po-po" other than "gen-pop po-po".  There may be one or two exceptions, though (a definite minority).

Still, I would prefer not to deal with LE, period, and I'm sure they would prefer it the same way (boring day, everyone and their dogs* go home safely).


* That's not a jab: it includes K-9, who are about as impervious to bullets as non-LE canines.

Quoted: What do you think about cops?  Not POLICIES, people, which are administrative rules, but cops themselves.  Vote your choice and then discuss - RESPECTFULLY AND POLITELY - here.  But let's be adults, ok?

As discretionary authority of the individual officer has diminished, the public opinion of the police officer has also gone down.

I wonder why that is???

Quoted: Quoted: I really believe that the police have a very hard job to do and that they do it as well as they can. The unfortunate thing is that because of political policies which they have no part in formulating the police are used as tax enforcers through the issuand of speeding ticked and other fines.  Most law abiding citizens do not see the really tough work that LE does.  There only experience with LE is being pulled over on the highway and being given a ticket.  Sad really. Which is much of what I'd like to convey in the work.  There is an "us versus them" attitude, but I honestly believe much of the animosity is misdirected.  I hate to generalize, but many of us fall prey to attitudes we have yet to truly examine because we search for a certain clique to adhere to.  On this board, and others, that is typically regulated to two classes:  cop bashers and cop supporters.  I doubt very seriously either classification is correct and without flaw - the problem with text-only discussions, I suppose.

When talking politics, you should also probably differentiate between brass, rank-and-file, union, etc......

I would venture a guess that "upper management" at FOP and 99% of officers on this board would not agree on, for example, what the 2A means and why RKBA is important.

That, also, is "sad, really," as someone else put it earlier.

i agree that most cops are "good" and it's the bottom 5% or 10% that cause problems.  it is the same way with any large organization of people.  however, what bothers me is the way that so many cops will try to defend and justify the immoral actions of the immoral 5%, rather than admit that said actions were wrong and assure the rest of us that most cops don't do things like that.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WHY do people keep making 5 option polls? Alternatively, WHy can't goatboy fix the polls? What's wrong with 5-option polls?   The 4th and 5th option always have the same number of votes, and the total never adds up right. Also why can't goatboy fix the spell check, too? It's described in the benefits for a membership! Edited to add that IMO most cops are good but there a number of assholes too. That could be said about any occupation, though. From my limited experience, in rural areas about 90% are good and in urban areas about 75% are good.

I'd like the "Range Locator" to work, but I'm not going to stake my membership on it.

Then again, I'm usually an OK speller, not a looser like most here.

Quoted: Quoted: What do you think about cops?  Not POLICIES, people, which are administrative rules, but cops themselves.  Vote your choice and then discuss - RESPECTFULLY AND POLITELY - here.  But let's be adults, ok? As discretionary authority of the individual officer has diminished, the public opinion of the police officer has also gone down. I wonder why that is???

Big +1 there.  Everyone is too afraid of being labled a racist, so departments create some standard policy for every situation.  End result, an inflexible procedure that makes zero sense in many situations.  Same thing is happening to school with their "zero tolerance" policies.  PC strikes again.  

Quoted: Quoted:  A clean record does not make you qualified to police the public.  MHO.   Certainly not.  There is much more to it than that.  But a dirty record should certainly disqualify you.

+1.

I think Richard meant to put the phrase "Merely having" in front of "a clean record."  If not, he should have!

Cops are people. If you take a handful of cops and a handful of regular guys, you will probably have the same amount of assholes in either group. The difference is cops are entrusted with more power than the average joe, so the assholes become giant assholes. I tend to remember the bad things in my life more than the good, so when I think of the cops I think of the pricks, but after a few more seconds I realize that there are also good ones out there

I voted for all of em.  And I mean it.

The vast majority of the cops I come into contact with in real life seem to be perfectly decent folks who aren't drunk with power.  I'll run into a real prick now and then, but they're certainly the exception to the rule.  

Curiously, with the ones I meet online, it's just the opposite.  

But then, so am I.

Quoted: Every occupation has it's assholes and they are the ones you remember and who you tend to characterize the rest with.

While that is undeniably true, bad cops tend to have a much more drastic effect on people than, say a bad waiter.

If your waiter is an asshole, the worst he can do is screw up your meal.  If a cop is an asshole, he can try to make you go to prison for 20 years.

I notice my State Police are respectful and do their job with reason.

My local police treat you as scum of the Earth and will bash you in the face after they atagonize you into calling them rude or liars.

I havent had any experiences with the police in over 4 years(Since I was a teenager).   Dont know if times have changed.

Maybe they only disrespect and start fights with teenagers.

Quoted: Decent people doing a tough job under one sided rules.  a job only about 1:1000 people is qualified for and only about 1:10,000 would be good at.

Well shit, that explains a lot.  There are about 2.3 law enforcement officers for every 1000 in population.  I guess that means most cops are unqualified and fewer than 1 in 20 are actually good at their jobs.


Source

Quoted: Quoted: Every occupation has it's assholes and they are the ones you remember and who you tend to characterize the rest with. While that is undeniably true, bad cops tend to have a much more drastic effect on people than, say a bad waiter. If your waiter is an asshole, the worst he can do is screw up your meal.  If a cop is an asshole, he can try to make you go to prison for 20 years.

or kill you!!