Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 1/14/2006 1:21:39 AM EDT
I seen a picture of a soldier in Iraq with red crosses all over his pouches. I assumed he was a medic. He was carrying an M4. I was under the impression, from WW2 movies, that medics didn't carry weapons. I thought it was a Geneva Convention thing. Don't shoot the medic and he won't shoot you. Is that the way it was/is?

BTW, we seem to be the only ones being held down by the 'rules of war' because the insurgents sure as hell don't follow them.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:24:47 AM EDT
Medics I believe can carry personal weapons. They just cannot operate machine guns or anti tank rockets/mortors/artillery. Things like that. Correct me if I'm wrong
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:27:28 AM EDT
They can throw syringes with deadly accuracy, though.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:28:40 AM EDT
They can carry weapons for personal protection, but not offensive weapons.

So carrying a pistol or a rifle is OK.

Carrying a Belt Fed is a No-No.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:29:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beltfedleadhead:
They can throw syringes with deadly accuracy, though.



Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:32:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
They can carry weapons for personal protection, but not offensive weapons.

So carrying a pistol or a rifle is OK.

Carrying a Belt Fed is a No-No.




As well as, they can carry the weapons....but once they fire that weapon, they become like any other soldier and their "status" is taken away.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:35:51 AM EDT
navy corpsman or all u.s. medics can't have offensive weapons?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:58:33 AM EDT
Not sure about warzone combat....they do however go into combat areas in the inner cities of the USA every day, all day, as unarmed civillians. Not trying to compare an urban gangland to a hot zone in-theatre, but the guy here who do it for a career as a civillian dont even have the opportunity for a personal weapon. They just need to hope that the vermin in these areas need them enough to not assault them.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:57:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 2:58:07 AM EDT by absit]
Yes they get weapons. Chaplains don't though (last I knew).
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:37:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 5:55:42 AM EDT by Johninaustin]
Chaplains can be armed, medics certainly are. I don't know where you get this "offensive weapons only" stuff, medics qualify on the M2/SAW etc. just like everyone else.

Do you have the pic? I don't know of ANY equipment medics carry these days with a cross on it.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:44:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 5:45:49 AM EDT by jimtash9]
I don't think wearing a red cross is in any way a deterrent to getting shot by the insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan. In fact, it probably makes it easier to get shot at.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:48:43 AM EDT
My platoon medic in Iraq carried an M-4 and saved my platoon sergeants life while on a dismounted patrol when he put 4 rounds into a VBIED drivers melon.

Combat medics live in the infantry.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:57:22 AM EDT
Everyone's medical supplies pouch has a cross on it, so you can use the injured man's supplies rather than your own.

Now whats messed up is contractors get whatever their company pays for, and active duty are issued weapons. Federal employees over there dont get anything (officially).

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:02:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:
Everyone's medical supplies pouch has a cross on it, so you can use the injured man's supplies rather than your own

Kharn



You know this from actual experience? I have a CL bag issued to me. My entire platoon does. No red crosses.

None of the gear in the medical section of my unit has any either. I inventoried it with the Section leader for a change of command. Not one red cross to be seen on anything. Some of the bags has a subdued Cadeucus on them, but that's about it.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:05:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 6:06:32 AM EDT by bloodmoon]
When I was a 91B(medical specialist/combat medic) in 1/5 cav 1st cav I carried an M4 with all the goodies and a M9. One of the medics in our brigade this crazy kid named specialist Rood ran with his batts scouts and was issued a SAW. In bosnia he carried a M4 with M203.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:08:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 6:09:48 AM EDT by napalm]

Originally Posted By Stryker_11A:
My platoon medic in Iraq carried an M-4 and saved my platoon sergeants life while on a dismounted patrol when he put 4 rounds into a VBIED drivers melon.

Combat medics live in the infantry.



Fuckin' A....


...and woe be unto the motherfuckers that fuck with Doc.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:21:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:36:31 AM EDT
I was 91-Alpha.

We carried weapons just like everyone else.

There were no red crosses on our bags. Red crosses are just targets.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:51:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 7:03:45 AM EDT by DocHoliday]
I don’t post much, but I'll jump in here. 25 Years experience (Retired HMCM(that's a SgtMaj for all you Doggies hing
- Geneva Convention states that Medical and Religious Personnel (Dr's, Medics, Corpsmen, Chaplains, Nurses, etc) are 'non-combatants’ – they are even issued a special Identification Card. They are authorized self-defensive weapons only. This is a VOLUNTARY stature. In other words what someone said earlier - don't shoot at me and I won't shoot back.
- Also under that same provision, the same personnel are NOT to be taken prisoner of war, but are to be allowed to stay with all captured combatants and provide medical care.

Now that is what is what the rules state – in reality, in the past 100 years the only Foreign enemy the US has faced that honored these provisions were the Germans during WWI – and to a much less extent during WWII.

In the real world Medics and Corpsman pack all the heat they can carry. MOST do not engage with the enemy unless the situation requires (again, the example given earlier of the Medic taking out an enemy combatant to protect others in his unit). The truth is most don’t have time to engage due to taking care of the wounded unless the op has gone south real quick.
When a non-combatant VOLUNTARILY removes himself from the protections of the convention, then they are no longer ‘protected’ – they are a legitimate target.
Again, real world, I never had a Corpsman that did not qualify and use every weapon in the units inventory – and use them when needed. I have never seen a Chaplain even qualify (I’m sure some did – just none I knew). The Navy specifically created a rate (RP – Religious Program Specialist) to assist the Chaplains – they are regular combatants, fully armed and trained as infantry – in addition to their admin duties, they were the ‘Body Guards’ for the Chaplain.

Hope this info helps.

Forgot to add: SpecOp Medics are regular combatants (i.e. Navy SEALs that are Corpsmen, Army 91b)there are other MOS's, but I don't know them, that are Green Berets, etc).
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:54:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:44:20 AM EDT
I talked to a friend who is an officer in the Army and is a doctor. They don't wear red crosses like you see in MASH. Today's enemy does not care if a person, truck, or helicopter has a red cross on it, they will shoot. The bright color actually is a problem because it is easier to spot and it blows your cover and the others with you. The Iraqi insurgency and Afghan-based Taliban aren't too familiar with the Geneva Conventions or rules of engagement or even care if there are rules.
When deployed into combat as a surgeon, he will be carrying a pistol.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 12:31:50 PM EDT
The USMC Recruiter I talked to last week said .
" We love our medics . We give them the 203 . "
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 12:37:47 PM EDT
I finally was approved for a meps physical, going in a week or so, I've been attempting to re enlist into the national guard, the only option, since june '04, but have to have a medical waiver, the meps physical is a big step that's been a long time making happen.
Anyhow, point to this is if I'm able to re enlist, all infantry national guard units have already been deployed and I don't know of any more being deployed to iraq or afghan, and the objective is to deploy, so I was considering mos's that might be more likely to deploy other than infantry, and was thinking medic.

There's a medic unit in the va. national guard, are medic's in demand and more deployable?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 12:42:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
I finally was approved for a meps physical, going in a week or so, I've been attempting to re enlist into the national guard, the only option, since june '04, but have to have a medical waiver, the meps physical is a big step that's been a long time making happen.
Anyhow, point to this is if I'm able to re enlist, all infantry national guard units have already been deployed and I don't know of any more being deployed to iraq or afghan, and the objective is to deploy, so I was considering mos's that might be more likely to deploy other than infantry, and was thinking medic.

There's a medic unit in the va. national guard, are medic's in demand and more deployable?



You don't need to belong to a unit to be deployed. They'll be quite happy to use you to fill a slot and send you by yourself.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 12:50:14 PM EDT
Medics didn't carry weapons during WWII, and most people didn't shoot at them. In fact, medics who were captured and found with pistols were often shot. Stephen Ambrose has a great story about a firefight between Germans and Emericans in his book "Citizen Soldiers" where a german medic and an american medic got into a fistfight and everybody stopped shooting to watch.

The no medics carry weapons rule was changed because Japanese soldiers would specifically target them.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 12:59:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By absit:
Yes they get weapons. Chaplains don't though (last I knew).



Chaplains can if they want to IIRC. If they do generaly it's a side arm. The preist at my church did, a Lt Colonel in the army when I knew him, a stint in Vietnam as a chaplain Lt. he said he carried a pistol and a few mags. His choice.

He said in an interview I did of him for a school project that he carried to protect his boys when they couldn't protect them selfs.

He went on to say that he had to draw and fire his weapon once when the firebase he was on cmae under attack.

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:31:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 4:25:32 PM EDT by Kharn]

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By Kharn:
Everyone's medical supplies pouch has a cross on it, so you can use the injured man's supplies rather than your own

Kharn


You know this from actual experience? I have a CL bag issued to me. My entire platoon does. No red crosses.

None of the gear in the medical section of my unit has any either. I inventoried it with the Section leader for a change of command. Not one red cross to be seen on anything. Some of the bags has a subdued Cadeucus on them, but that's about it.

Its not red, black on green subdued cross on every pouch with medical supplies in it. I was told by our LTC that it was the new design, accompanying the ACUs. But then I'm just a cube dweller, our gear is just in case we need to go over and support our customer.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:43:03 PM EDT

I just finished this book. This HM2 carried a Stoner.


Combat Corpsman
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:47:45 PM EDT
Medics are armed with at least 1000 rounds of 800mg Motrin....
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:51:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:52:16 PM EDT by DScott]
These medics got guns, and no visible red crossess anywhere... cute too!

a141.us/Medics.html

(pics are HUGE...)
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:56:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 4:02:30 PM EDT by Reaganera0351]

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
The USMC Recruiter I talked to last week said .
" We love our medics . We give them the 203 . "




He is wrong... and no Marine (pogues included) would ever refer to a Corpsman as a "medic".

In most if not all Marine infantry units, the 203 is carried by FTL.

Corpsman were issued the Benelli shotgun in Fallujah and deployed as hatch breachers.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:58:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Medics are armed with at least 1000 rounds of 800mg Motrin....



As we used to double-time around Fort Sam Houston, we sang:

"I don't need no M-16, just give me a case of Atrophine."
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:04:27 PM EDT
They definitely aren't supposed to man the M240B.

Our medic was doing a shift in the gun turret and a full bird COL. saw it and was less than pleased. It was the last time we let him sit up there.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:11:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By geezhound:
They definitely aren't supposed to man the M240B.

Our medic was doing a shift in the gun turret and a full bird COL. saw it and was less than pleased. It was the last time we let him sit up there.




Rediculous...

Why would somebody attached to a fighting unit not be capable of operating every organic weapon that unit has?

We argued for one of our Corpsman to get a live shot with the Dragon and it happened.

Specific knowledge of your role is important, but in my unit and all others I was familiar with, everybody better be able to handle somebody elses job when needed.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:14:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
I
There were no red crosses on our bags.





That's because red paint hadn't been invented yet.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:15:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By piccolo:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
I
There were no red crosses on our bags.





That's because red paint hadn't been invented yet.



You young whippersnapper!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:22:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:28:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DocHoliday:
I don’t post much, but I'll jump in here. 25 Years experience (Retired HMCM(that's a SgtMaj for all you Doggies ) - USMC Infantry - 1/9, 2/9, 1/5, 2/5, 1/7 ) - spent almost 2 years teaching 'Laws of Armed Conflict'...

- Geneva Convention states that Medical and Religious Personnel (Dr's, Medics, Corpsmen, Chaplains, Nurses, etc) are 'non-combatants’ – they are even issued a special Identification Card. They are authorized self-defensive weapons only. This is a VOLUNTARY stature. In other words what someone said earlier - don't shoot at me and I won't shoot back.
- Also under that same provision, the same personnel are NOT to be taken prisoner of war, but are to be allowed to stay with all captured combatants and provide medical care.

Now that is what is what the rules state – in reality, in the past 100 years the only Foreign enemy the US has faced that honored these provisions were the Germans during WWI – and to a much less extent during WWII.

In the real world Medics and Corpsman pack all the heat they can carry. MOST do not engage with the enemy unless the situation requires (again, the example given earlier of the Medic taking out an enemy combatant to protect others in his unit). The truth is most don’t have time to engage due to taking care of the wounded unless the op has gone south real quick.
When a non-combatant VOLUNTARILY removes himself from the protections of the convention, then they are no longer ‘protected’ – they are a legitimate target.
Again, real world, I never had a Corpsman that did not qualify and use every weapon in the units inventory – and use them when needed. I have never seen a Chaplain even qualify (I’m sure some did – just none I knew). The Navy specifically created a rate (RP – Religious Program Specialist) to assist the Chaplains – they are regular combatants, fully armed and trained as infantry – in addition to their admin duties, they were the ‘Body Guards’ for the Chaplain.

Hope this info helps.

Forgot to add: SpecOp Medics are regular combatants (i.e. Navy SEALs that are Corpsmen, Army 91b)there are other MOS's, but I don't know them, that are Green Berets, etc).



My wife is a 56M (Chaplain's Assistant) and one of her duties is to make certain that the rude gentlemen keep their distance.

My BIL is a corpsman, went with the Marines to Bosnia, never once went anywhere without some form of weaponry. Usually a shotgun.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:35:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
I finally was approved for a meps physical, going in a week or so, I've been attempting to re enlist into the national guard, the only option, since june '04, but have to have a medical waiver, the meps physical is a big step that's been a long time making happen.
Anyhow, point to this is if I'm able to re enlist, all infantry national guard units have already been deployed and I don't know of any more being deployed to iraq or afghan, and the objective is to deploy, so I was considering mos's that might be more likely to deploy other than infantry, and was thinking medic.

There's a medic unit in the va. national guard, are medic's in demand and more deployable?



Once you get to your unit, ask for information on volunteering to deploy with anohter unit that is either training to go, or has already gone. My squad leader just left for Afganistan, and the two guys that were in my fire team are heading back to Iraq soon. They are hooking up with units that are already there. A guy that I deployed with is going to Afganistan, he managed to find a unit and get attached while they were still doing their train up.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:04:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Reaganera0351:

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
The USMC Recruiter I talked to last week said .
" We love our medics . We give them the 203 . "




He is wrong... and no Marine (pogues included) would ever refer to a Corpsman as a "medic".

In most if not all Marine infantry units, the 203 is carried by FTL.

Corpsman were issued the Benelli shotgun in Fallujah and deployed as hatch breachers.

He did call them Corpsman. I called them medic . Pretty cool dude also . He spent about an hour explaining five ways I could back door my way into the Marines even though I am past the age of enlistment into the Marines .
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:16:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SUPERSPORT:
I seen a picture of a soldier in Iraq with red crosses all over his pouches. I assumed he was a medic. He was carrying an M4. I was under the impression, from WW2 movies, that medics didn't carry weapons. I thought it was a Geneva Convention thing. Don't shoot the medic and he won't shoot you. Is that the way it was/is?

BTW, we seem to be the only ones being held down by the 'rules of war' because the insurgents sure as hell don't follow them.




In WWII medics started out not carrying weapons but when they realize the white patch with the red cross wasn't going to stop the enemy from gunning them down anyway, they started packing.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:04:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:

Originally Posted By Reaganera0351:

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
The USMC Recruiter I talked to last week said .
" We love our medics . We give them the 203 . "




He is wrong... and no Marine (pogues included) would ever refer to a Corpsman as a "medic".

In most if not all Marine infantry units, the 203 is carried by FTL.

Corpsman were issued the Benelli shotgun in Fallujah and deployed as hatch breachers.

He did call them Corpsman. I called them medic . Pretty cool dude also . He spent about an hour explaining five ways I could back door my way into the Marines even though I am past the age of enlistment into the Marines .



I thank you for the correction...As we proud few hold our Corpsmen in the highest regard. In a few months you'll know what i'm talking about..If you have what it takes.

Greatness awaits you....
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:34:37 PM EDT
Back in Desert Storm, one of my corpsmen carried his personal cut-down 870. He had some of the Marines in the flight equipment shop sew a special pouch / holster rig on the outside of his ruck so he could reach it in a hurry.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:42:59 PM EDT
Our Medics had M9s and M16A4s. and they did use them.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:47:01 PM EDT
All Corpsmen had at a minimum an M9, they sometimes had M590's too while I was in. We did make it a habbit to either qual of at least FamFire all our small arms from the line companies to Weapons company. Some of the Corpsmen were better shooters that the grunts!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:57:39 PM EDT
I appreciate the info on deploying. thumbs up.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:57:46 PM EDT
There are no red, subdued or any other crosses on the "case, first aid, individual". That is because that very same case is also used as and issued with a compass. The "Combat Lifesaver's Bag" has no cross on it either. I do not recall seeing a cross on the Medic's Aid bag either. As a matter of fact, the only thing that I can think of that has a red cross on it is the HMMWV ambulance.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 9:00:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 9:14:51 PM EDT by Reaganera0351]
Originally Posted By DocH:
"Back in Desert Storm, one of my corpsmen carried his personal cut-down 870".


Bullshit!

You are full of shit.....pose some place else.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 9:07:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:
Not sure about warzone combat....they do however go into combat areas in the inner cities of the USA every day, all day, as unarmed civillians. Not trying to compare an urban gangland to a hot zone in-theatre, but the guy here who do it for a career as a civillian dont even have the opportunity for a personal weapon. They just need to hope that the vermin in these areas need them enough to not assault them.



Nobody is talking about civilians riding the boo boo bus into the projects.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:28:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

...and woe be unto the motherfuckers that fuck with Doc.



Here is a man who knows what he is talking about.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:52:47 PM EDT
From what I have seen Air Force chaplain assistants have carried M-9s cocked and locked, but never the chaplains. Air Force medics I have seen carrying M-16A2s these days. Like others have mentioned, special stauses went out the window a few years back.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top