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Posted: 8/7/2001 12:10:22 PM EDT
First off big FLAG: I ain't cop bashing. I am just wondering when you guys do speed traps, how come I regularly get pulled over and cars doing 5 to ten faster just go by. I wear a helmet cause I want an open casket funeral. I was discussing this with my buddies and we came to the conclusion that if a cop sees a sport bike, he assumes it is speeding. Damn assumers. Less speeding tickets and I can get more prebans. Cop gave me one for 3 over the other day using a laser speed gun. I am going to fight it, but wtf? Just curious as to your reactions to seeing crotchrockets go by. Thanks, Ice
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 12:23:13 PM EDT
I agree, the only motorcylists that caught my eye in the last three weeks were doing three times the speed limit. Three separate instances. When the dumbass comes out to play on a crotch rocket people die. I forgot a fourth instance; a fatality two weeks ago. He was only doing 90 so there was plenty left to bury. (dumbass is an affliction we refer to like gremlins or pixie dust while watching from above; "looks like we got some fresh dumbass loose on the interstate today"). Planerench out.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 1:00:14 PM EDT
I've been at both ends of this one - maybe I just get pulled over a lot. No demerits though. Got stopped once for doing 55K in a 60K zone - unbelievable. The cop was concerned that I'd hit the car in front of me - only 3 seconds following distance. I didn't mention that, as a novice class roadracer, I'd been trading paint all weekend and - with full race street legal tires and my armored hands covering the brake - could easily have stopped before the drivers behind me knew that my brake lights were on. On the other hand, I once was stopped for doing 265k in a 70k zone. Hey, I was slowing down. Thanks officer! But the only bike accident I've ever had on the road happened when I was sedately chugging along at idle at about 50K with my lights on and this kid in his mom's minivan pulls out of a drivethrough, stays in the right lane, then with no signal, shouldercheck or glance outside his Whopper meal proceeds to do a u-turn from the wrong lane in a no u-turn zone onto my head. His fault - he agreed, I agreed, insurance agreed. No charges laid. WTF. If you're going to ticket/harass people for minor traffic infractions, at least nail 'em when they send people to the couch for a month or two.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 1:07:15 PM EDT
I never focused on bikes any more than cars. In fact if anything I may have paid less attention to them. But then I never was what I called "traffic oriented" and hated writing tickets. Unless there is more to it than you're telling three over is bullshit and yes, I would fight it. Few factory speedos are accurate within three MPH. I am curious about one thing though. This term you use "speed trap"? I've heard this a lot. Could you please define what a speed trap is? I think this will be sort of like defining assault weapon.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 1:11:37 PM EDT
I once got waved over on my little crotch rocket, an '85 Yam. RZ350 (last of the two stroke street bikes), and the trooper says "Nice bike." Then I hear the airplane over his radio. I think if it had been me and him I could've gotten out of the ticket, 69mph in a 55, on a back road. But his boss was looking over our shoulders. I usually ride the speed limit anymore anyways. Who are "they" gonna' pull over? The 'kid' on the bright yellow and black crotch rocket or the soccer mom in her mini-van. Only this 'kid' is damned near old enough to be their father. [:D] Does that mean I'm really supposed to know better?
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 1:12:35 PM EDT
Speed trap as used by the cops around here is to hide, yes hide, in a pull in for a gated community or apartment building and clock motorists. Buddy of mine says that they have to be in plain sight, but I don't know for sure. The cop's reason for pulling me over was I had one hand on the bars, and one scratching my leg, darn bees. I think he was in a bad mood, but I don't know what was going on in his head, so I ain't going to judge him. Thanks for being honest here and giving opinions, mine is that if you are writing traffic tickets there better not be anything more important to do. Ice
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 1:13:43 PM EDT
Yeah, same sort of thing John, flashier bike, more tickets. Ice
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 1:29:09 PM EDT
My experience is contrary in that I get hassled less on my bike than in my car. I don't really get many tickets, but I've never gotten one on my motorcycle even though I drive it considerably faster than I do my car. I have occasionally gotten tickets in my car. I even got pulled over for blasting through a one horse town at midnight in South Dakota (I really didn't see it). When I confessed to the cop that I had no idea what town he was talking about, he just told me to be more careful and let me go.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:11:34 PM EDT
Ice, your buddy was mistaken. Not unlike most things involving law enforcement people will tell you things that are total bullshit as if they and they alone have some sort of inside info. Is it a trap because they do not post large flashing signs at intervals down the road well in advance of where they are running radar? Perhaps they should run advertisements in the local newspaper announcing where and when they plan to check peoples speed in advance so it is not a trap. If you are speeding and they catch you then why would it matter if they were hidden or sitting in plane sight? You're still speeding. I hated writing tickets and would do anything to try to avoid it. But it is not just something that cops do when there is nothing else to do. It is completely different when someone commits a traffic violation that gets someone you know and love seriously injured or killed. Or what about the idiot that has their head up their ass and pulls out in front of you when you are on your bike? You know the ones, I'm sure it happens all the time. It did to me when I practically lived on a bike. Should the officer not write them because he was hidden? Or maybe he should only write them if he has nothing better to do? Most mornings I spent two hours sitting in the station getting caught up on paper work from my shift so I could go home and knock off a piece from the wife. If I had to stop someone during the shift to write them...or more often in my case to warn them with no ticket it damn sure was not because I had nothing better to do. I would have much rather spent the time talking to them doing the paper work so I could get home faster in the morning. Most cops do not need to find "busy work". Work seems to find them. Jonnie, I'd stop the soccer mom first. I hate soccor moms.:D
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:24:17 PM EDT
Whoa buddy, Gunslinger, do you have paperwork poisoning? We also got lots of paperwork to fill out here. Pain in the buttocks I agree. I was looking for opinions and it sounds like I got one. Thanks. Going to talk with my buddy on the Force about the ticket cause it bites, not so much paying it, its like $45, but the 3 hr. court wait and the points on my license are bugging me. Got guys at the court house that will sell their tickets of appearance for about $40, that's how busy it is here. As for the term "speedtrap", that's what the cops call them down here, so why can't I use that term. And for tickets, I have no use for traffic cops, yeah if I'm doing a wheelie at 90mph arrest my ass, or if somebody does some bonehead thing get them or me. I figure if you are going to do, you should be willing to get the ticket. I am just wondering if bikes get targeted. Thanks. Weiseguy, Lucky you, that is opposite of this area. Thanks for the feed back, Ice
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:40:59 PM EDT
Ice, I'd also give the prosecutors office a call and see if they will drop it. I'd tell them I planned to fight the thing because three over is bullshit (they will agree, even if not out loud) and have better things to do than screw with a three mile an hour over violation. If their officers are writing tickets like this I'm sure they have a very, very long docket sheet and will be happy to not have to deal with someone that is willing to fight a ticket for something this small.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:47:59 PM EDT
HEY NOW.... lets dont be too hard on these meter maids...eeeerrrrr, I mean traffic cops. They are just doing their job and collecting taxes. I think the next time we all see a speed trap, do a U-turn, go back and speed through this time, so we can help the local LEO,s fund their much needed swat teams. [BD]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:02:15 PM EDT
Ice, fight that bull$hit ticket. Go to the library, or maybe you even have them, whatever, but get some back issues of some bike mags. Cycle World I think in its reviews gives actual lasered and "speedo" speeds for all the bikes it tests. There is NO bike speedo that is accurate to 3mph (they are getting better though with the newer stepped speedos.) Most are off anywhere from 3 to 10 MPH !!!. Take these in to show the judge, there is NO WAY you could have know you were over. Maybe they'll buy it maybe not. Good Luck. BrenLover
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:13:30 PM EDT
Recently we had a week long festival that culminates in a nationally televised sporting event on Monday night. The Saturday prior to this event there is a huge parade in honor of some athletes who have accomplished great things in their sport. The parade route is closed to traffic the night before. just prior to the start of the parade a 20 something on a crotch rocket went around a barricade and got onto the closed street. He couldn't resist showing off to the spectators lined up along the street waiting for the parade to start so he starts doing wheelies. No dangerous in itself but the street also had many spectators walking in it and playing ball and frisbee and what have you. Mr. smarty pants didn't count on police radio communications( we have those now ya know) and I along with a couple of other officers caught him at another barricade. We charged him with reckless operation and failure to comply with the order of a Police officer. Both are 6 point violations and at 12 points in Ohio you lose your License. It is also an arrestable offense but we gave him a break because he was stupid. I don't dislike motorcyclists but I do dislike dumbasses of all kinds.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:21:37 PM EDT
Thanks guys for your opinions and Sukebe, that guy deserved it. Showing off is one thing, but if you endanger more than your own life, that is wrong. Talked with my buddy and he wanted a photocopy of the ticket. He is friends of this guy's lieutenant, so he is going to pass on this bonehead ticket. Ice
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 4:17:19 PM EDT
Wouldnt surprise you to hear that in the prk i was cited for 65 in a 65 the cops response was that if i didnt like it i could fight it.Was a waste of my time to take time off work and drive to pasadena for 80 bucks.They hate bikes here and will pull you over on any canyon road or nearby if you are 1 mph over the posted speed limit while a car can pass you.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 4:48:41 PM EDT
Hey Planerench, Nice friggin attitude. You can say the same about handguns... The question was do you guys hate cyclists, and you did say yes, and further justify being an a-hole. Saving life is one thing, condemming a person because they are on a bike is completely different.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 4:58:24 PM EDT
im a cop, and ive owned several different bikes in my time.. everything from a honda vfr 750 to a 1976 custom hog... the only reaction motorcyclists get from me is admiration of their bikes... nothing better than a blacked out rice rocket, or a chromed out HD to get my attention... ticket rule is the same for bikers as it is for car and truck drivers.. show a little respect, and i do... show you a55.. and i do (in the form of a ticket).. i feel that merely pulling someone over and issuing a warning accomplishes the same goal as issuing a citation.. the motorist slowed down.. i write less than 5 tickets a month for speeding... i probably conduct 100+ traffic stops a month though...
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:08:38 PM EDT
Was pulled over four times on my bike, only ticketed once by the CHiPs. One tagged me going 45 in a 25 and saw me coming hard on the brakes. Was doing about 65. Cop thanked me about five times for stopping as they had problems with runners, checked my clean record and let me go. Next two chatted about bikes a bit, checked the clean record, and let me go. CHiP got me 75 in a 55. Was doing well over 90 a couple minutes befor but luckily was coming up on traffic. Was pleasant but still ticketed me. Damn quotas. [;)] Pisser was it turned out to be $170 with traffic school. Oh well, guess I was due. Moral- most cops I've run into have been pretty cool about it. Honda VFR700F2 with standard pipes. I've noticed buddies with aftermarket pipes tend to get more tickets.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:22:36 PM EDT
Woops! I've got to chime in. I don't pick out bikes more, probably less. They don't show up as well on radar so its harder to "lock". Usually when I pull over a bike I'm thankful they pulled over in the first place! There's not a bike around that can't lose a car. Yes a radio can outrun a bike, if you know where he's going! Also, the plates are damned near too small to read. I'm glad I don't work much traffic.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:50:32 PM EDT
1. I'm a cop. 2. I'm also a motorcyclist. 3. I like motorcyclists just fine. Wave at every one I pass on the road. Most don't wave back. Oh well. 4. I despise stupid people regardless of what they ride/drive. 5. 3 mph over????!!!!! 99% of cops I know call that excrement covered with white feathers.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 6:45:09 PM EDT
I ride a 750 Yamaha cruiser, and I pretty much say at or under the speed limit, and have never been stopped. One question I have always had though is how the heck do Harleys get away with running open pipes? I am not anti-HD, but I see them everywhere, in other states as well. If I were to drive 10 miles into town with open headers on a '69 Camaro or a Dodge Charger, I would be ticketed so fast that my head would swim. Hell they would probably would just go ahead and impound the car. 90% of H-D motorcycles run straight pipes, so much so that I really think everyone believes they come from the factory this way, and that most folks think that is "how they sound". What gives? I certainly am not on a crusade to ticket riders, but this is one that boggles my mind. I have always had a hot-rod car around "just for fun",and I know better than to run open exhaust. H-D riders flame on
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 9:07:07 PM EDT
Dear a6142, my point was that the only time anything stands out from the air is when it is dusting everything else by comparison. When the first case this month was doing 85 in a 35 for five miles passing in the opposite lanes of a four lane thoroughfare it catches my eye. This time of year bikes are everywhere I just don't see any car drivers pulling this special kind of dumbass. My baby was a 1972 BMW R75/5 I rebuilt from a box full of parts I recovered from a barn. I took that bike on my honeymoon and had to amputate it to pay a large medical bill. I love bikes. They just seem to bring out the absolute worst in the absolute worst riders. Two weeks ago a goldwing rider desided that the dashed lane was his and ruined the commute for approximately 50,000 people. Another ran 90mph over a hilly area and ditched it -fatally-. I mentioned the 85+ wheelie guys. Hog rider on the freeway passing close enough to leave his front tire marks on car bumpers. Almost every day. If you are not a dumbass risking other people's lives I did not address you. Planerench out
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 10:13:50 PM EDT
I'm sitting here at work surrounded by several ex-LEO's. I just asked them about motorcycles & traffic enforcement. I got a couple of responses saying that the problem of people speeding on motorcycles is a self-repairing problem. Either the riders "get the fear of god in them and slow down," (one guy's extact words) or they hurt themselves while only doing property damage to what they hit. Either way, problem fixed. Just thought that was an amusing attitude, and I respect it, because it recognizes the driver's responsibility. If they want to drive fast, then that's their problem because they're, in all likelyhood, only going to hurt themselves. Three other guys (former city cops) said that they never ticketed motorcycles for speeding, because the magistrate was a former LEO and a motorcyle owner, and he knew you couldn't clock them if there's anything else metal near them and judging their speed visually is very difficult. So, the guy usually tosses the cases.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 10:17:42 AM EDT
LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES! And they do. btip, I think you're talking about performance exhausts. Few HD riders are running open pipes since they only deliver on the dragstrip. Our engines require some backpressure for optimum performance. The sound you hear is a real engine running through a performance pipe like Hooker, V&H, or Supertrapp. They contain baffles but are louder, more efficient, and more MPG than stock. NOBODY and I mean nobody runs stock pipes. If you trade your Yamaha in for a Hog you'll buy decent pipes also. RIDE FREE!
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 10:27:47 AM EDT
In the town where I live, the LEO's can't chase motorcycles for any reason. The other day a cop started a very high speed pursuit of a crotchrocket and ended up through a fence into a tree. Not the bike, the cop. If a cop gets caught in a high speed pursuit, he gets put on suspension for a while. Enjoy the streets here.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:12:22 AM EDT
Thanks guys for the descriptions of Bonehead Cyclists, I ought to start a magazine. Planerench, nice bike [:D] Btip, seen the new Honda 1800VTR? End of the story goes like this, talked with my buddy, and went and had coffee (which I paid for) with the Lieutenant, and he had trouble keeping the Starbucks from going back out thru his nose (laughting) when I told him my side of the 3 over. He told me to take it easy, got the photocopy from my buddy and told me he would give me a call in coupe of days. Good ending, even if it was a waste of my time. Ice
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:41:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rangemaster: LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES! And they do. btip, I think you're talking about performance exhausts. Few HD riders are running open pipes since they only deliver on the dragstrip. Our engines require some backpressure for optimum performance. The sound you hear is a real engine running through a performance pipe like Hooker, V&H, or Supertrapp. They contain baffles but are louder, more efficient, and more MPG than stock. NOBODY and I mean nobody runs stock pipes. If you trade your Yamaha in for a Hog you'll buy decent pipes also. RIDE FREE!
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Performance? Yep, I see all kinds of performance oriented Harley's around town. Most of the Harley's with loud pipes that I see, barely run. The idiots have to keep blipping the throttle at stop lights to keep their POS bike from stalling (As delivered from the factory they don't have that particular performance feature BTW). Saves Lives? If you're so damned concerned about living to a ripe old age, drive a Volvo. If you chose to ride, accept the risks. Freedom? Grow up. How about the freedom of everyone else to be free from earsplitting racket? How about "Loud pipes satisfy my pathologic need for attention, and gee look how many lame excuses I can come up with to justify my antisocial behavior"
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:08:43 PM EDT
[b] Freedom? Grow up. How about the freedom of everyone else to be free from earsplitting racket? [/b] good call...let's ban guns too, because they make alot of noise. There's a range in my town that had to close b/c it "made too much noise, and bothered the locals". Guess they "had the freedom to be free from earsplitting racket"? No thanks...if it's between freedom and racket, i'll take freedom thank you.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 2:20:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Martsmth: good call...let's ban guns too, because they make alot of noise. There's a range in my town that had to close b/c it "made too much noise, and bothered the locals". Guess they "had the freedom to be free from earsplitting racket"? No thanks...if it's between freedom and racket, i'll take freedom thank you.
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I've got a better idea. How about mufflers for guns. We put mufflers on all sorts of other things that make too much noise (except Harleys of course) why not put them on guns too. Heck even commercial jets have noise reducing engine ducts. If you can a jet engine quiet (well, quieter) you should be able to do something about noisy guns. I'd be all for it. Of all the things that I like about guns, the noise isn't one of them.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 3:02:07 PM EDT
Performance? Yep, I see all kinds of performance oriented Harley's around town. Most of the Harley's with loud pipes that I see, barely run. The idiots have to keep blipping the throttle at stop lights to keep their POS bike from stalling (As delivered from the factory they don't have that particular performance feature BTW). Saves Lives? If you're so damned concerned about living to a ripe old age, drive a Volvo. If you chose to ride, accept the risks. Freedom? Grow up. How about the freedom of everyone else to be free from earsplitting racket? How about "Loud pipes satisfy my pathologic need for attention, and gee look how many lame excuses I can come up with to justify my antisocial behavior"
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These comments are perfectly valid - 50 years ago. I always love to read postings of the wannabes. Besides 100% resale value, we enjoy 45-50 mpg. Whatever burgh you're livin' in mac, I'd say it's time to move from. The EPA calls the shots as to what our HDs have from the factory, and wouldn't you know it, that smog junk just falls off before there's 1000 miles on the clock!
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 7:23:09 PM EDT
I am an LEO , I ride a bike, and I have seentoo many crotchrockets speeding and weaving in and out of traffic.....draw attention to your self and you can't complain.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 7:39:56 PM EDT
Draw attention to your self sure, but all I was doing was scratching my leg. I agree with you Wind, but that guy was being a butthole. HDs with loud pipes are kind of dumb, but to each his own. If you want to have the HD drunken firing sound go ahead. Like my buddy's tail tag says, "I never met a Harley I couldn't dust" But he cheats and has a Hayabusa, which you don't have to take out of first gear. Take care guys and roll easy, Ice
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 8:21:28 PM EDT
As a motor officer for a long time, I have to say the guys riding "crotchrockets" or "organ donors" as we liked to call them, made my job easier. That job was maintaining my stats (we don't call it a quota) and upholding the law. Now, not all those guys riding those killer bikes tended to speed through town like a bat out of hell but more than a few did. They kept things interesting. We used to hold tarantula/scorpion races with the after effects of collisions by bikers, but thats another story. Bikes, the newer ones I've noticed are marketed to the young guys with oodles of testosterone. It usually takes less than a week of ownership for the speed demon to make his appearance. I usually hear them even before I see them, giving me time to either use a gun or just use my trained observational skills, ok'd by the court, and zip in behind them..bingo Writing a ticket for 3 miles over is pretty CS, I'm wondering about the LEO that wrote that, it probably won't hold up. I can actually write a cite anytime and for any reason I see fit, it all depends on the conditions. Sure, you can go the speed limit, but if the conditions present dictate a lower speed, you better take that into consideration. Speed traps exist, anyone that say's they don't are liars, they usually revolve around an area that needs enforcement, or in an area where the speed limit slows abruptly into a new zone. I use them often, along with DWI enforcement. A zone of enforcement is the current PC now, so there ya have it. Now, in addition to bikes, these little japanese low riding playstation copycat cars so popular now are also targeted, why?..well because the majority of the owners of these little rat cars like to speed. They graduated from video games featuring these cars to the real thing without a clue on how to drive them, not unlike the bikes we're discussing. The lure to speed with such transportation on city streets seems to be overpowering to these unskilled young minds. As in my days of youth, a nice 62 Chevy SS Impala was the ticket to speed nirvana, the crotchrockets of today have replaced that Detroit Iron. Do we/I target the bikes, I guess so, but as long as [b]some[/b] of your comrades make it easy for us to ping em, we'll continue to do so. Public safety demands it.
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 6:16:21 AM EDT
I ride a 94 1100 BMW, with 140k. the only other bike I'd consider replacing it with, (aside from another Beemer) would be a Valkryie. The loudest sound at 70 mph is the wind around the fairing. At idle you can hold a conversation without raising your voice. I love the look from Harley riders, especially when passing them on hills. As for crotch rockets, next time you're in a parking lot, try and find one that has not been laid down. Even the new ones with paper tags on them have damage. As for not liking riders, I cannot remember the last time I wrote a bike a ticket. Have done several fatalities though. All were crotch rockets. Did one involving a Ducati with 186 miles on the speedo, 18 yr old rider blasting down the shoulder, and a minivan in a driveway. (unoccupied) the bike almost made it all the way through the minivan. the traffic investigator placed his speed at a minimum 88 mph in a residential neighborhood. No skid marks at all.
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