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Posted: 8/7/2001 11:26:00 AM EDT
I seen one in a local pawn shop that looks a little to new. It has the flash hider and bayonet lug on it. It has an a2 upper with carrying handle scope mount with a cheap scope. They are asking $1000 for it but they come down 20% if you pay cash. Should i get them to sign a paper stating it is a legal pre-ban? Is there a way to find out if it was made before the 89 ban?
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 11:35:56 AM EDT
get the serial number and call olypic arms, they will tell you if it is a preban gun. [beer]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 12:01:50 PM EDT
Since the fire at Olympic Arms they will not be able to tell you if the AR left the factory as a compete gun or complete kit. They will only be able to tell you if it is definitely a post ban. Get the info from Olympic anyway and get a letter from the Pawn Shop stating it is a pre-ban. That's my suggestion. If the Pawn Shop won't give you the letter I'd think seriously about not buying the gun or how YOU will prove it's pre-ban.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 12:03:36 PM EDT
If you get out of bed the next day and you still have it......it's real[;D]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 12:07:47 PM EDT
you think it is a good price if i can get it for $800 out of the door? i also don't think this pawn shop would like you wrighting down ser#'s, they stand there until you had the gun back. Is there a ser# you can get to know if you rifle is below it so you can easily find out if it is likely a pre-ban?
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 7:52:58 AM EDT
thanks i looked it up it was SA 96 17** that means it was made in 1996 so its illegal ar they were trying to get $1000 for
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 8:20:15 AM EDT
Something to remember. Innocent until PROVEN guilty!! This was obviously a post-ban (Via the serial number). If the lower was made befor e the ban a prosecutor must prove beyond a resonable doubt that the rifle was not assembled before the ban. I talked about this with oly last night. Even they can't say wether it was a rifle or a reciever due to the fire. So if a jury (worst case scenario) hears even the manufacturer can't say for certain wether it was a reciever or a rifle how the hell can a prosecutor prove it beyond a reasonable doubt???
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 9:38:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AK Fan: I seen one in a local pawn shop that looks a little to new. It has the flash hider and bayonet lug on it. It has an a2 upper with carrying handle scope mount with a cheap scope. They are asking $1000 for it but they come down 20% if you pay cash. Should i get them to sign a paper stating it is a legal pre-ban? Is there a way to find out if it was made before the 89 ban?
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There was no ban on domestic firearms in 1989. That was for imports. You're concerned with the 9/94 ban on this one...
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 9:40:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS: Something to remember. Innocent until PROVEN guilty!! This was obviously a post-ban (Via the serial number). If the lower was made befor e the ban a prosecutor must prove beyond a resonable doubt that the rifle was not assembled before the ban. I talked about this with oly last night. Even they can't say wether it was a rifle or a reciever due to the fire. So if a jury (worst case scenario) hears even the manufacturer can't say for certain wether it was a reciever or a rifle how the hell can a prosecutor prove it beyond a reasonable doubt???
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yeah. that's worth the headache. A $1000 Oly preban isn't worth the headache never mind an illegal one...
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:36:09 AM EDT
I was just offered a pre-ban Oly (20" HBAR) for $750 from an online seller. He had good feedback on some of the gun auction sites, and the serial number he sent me correlated to an early 93 production receiver, so I'll be taking him up on his offer. If it was a late 94 production number I probably wouldn't take the risk.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:00:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS: Something to remember. Innocent until PROVEN guilty!! This was obviously a post-ban (Via the serial number). If the lower was made befor e the ban a prosecutor must prove beyond a resonable doubt that the rifle was not assembled before the ban. I talked about this with oly last night. Even they can't say wether it was a rifle or a reciever due to the fire. So if a jury (worst case scenario) hears even the manufacturer can't say for certain wether it was a reciever or a rifle how the hell can a prosecutor prove it beyond a reasonable doubt???
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You've got it bass ackwards. Its been discussed a thousand times in the legal section, but all the prosecutor has to prove is that you were in possession of a rifle that has a detachable mag and two or more "assault features". This is without regard to the date of manufacture of the assault rifle. If the gun (in a configuration meeting the statutory definition of an "assault rifle") was legally possessed prior to the ban -a pre-ban- that is a defense to a charge of possesion under 922(v). The burden is on the defendant, however, to prove his defense.
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 1:14:30 PM EDT
Guilty until proven innocent?
Link Posted: 8/9/2001 2:34:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS: Guilty until proven innocent?
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Its all in how you define "guilt". Unfortunately, the threshhold for guilt under 922(v) is pretty low. Under 922(v), you are guilty if you are found to be in possession of an "assault rifle"...a rifle that accepts detachable mags and has two or more prohibited features. Thats it. But like any crime, there are defenses to the charge. 922(v) also contains several defenses - including that the SAW was legally possessed prior to enactment of 922(v) - that is, a pre-ban. However, it is the duty of the defendant to prove his own defenses.
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