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Posted: 1/13/2006 12:37:09 PM EDT
Police overreaction leads to chaos


A father's voice trembled as he described how a police officer threw his son to the ground in their front yard and handcuffed him.

The mother, a retired schoolteacher who did not witness the incident, was in tears at the very thought that "seven carloads of police" had come to her home and had taken not one but two of her adult sons to jail.

When Lorenza and Ernestine Fields called me last fall to report what had happened at their east Fort Worth home, I found it hard to believe that all the chaos had resulted from a young man smoking a cigarette in his parents' front yard.

Based on official police reports and interviews with family members, James Fields and his half brother, Samuel Fails III, were at their parents' home on the afternoon of Sept. 30, 2005, when James decided he wanted to smoke. The parents don't allow smoking in the house, so James went outside and lit up a cigarette.

Fort Worth police officer E.A. Bentley, driving by the home on Druid Court, noticed James smoking and stopped his car to question James about whether he was old enough to possess a cigarette.

As the officer approached, James went inside the house. The officer said he went to the door, rang the bell and told the person who answered (Samuel) that he wanted to speak with the person who had just entered the home -- to verify his age.

Samuel called for James to come to the door.

"I also called his father, Lorenza, to the door," said Samuel, 44. "The officer asked James to step outside, with which he complied. I also went outside. Immediately, the officer asked James, 'Why didn't you stop when I called you?' James replied, 'I didn't know you were talking to me.'"

Bentley asked to see James' identification, but James said he had no ID on him. Both Lorenza and Samuel had told the officer that James was 21, and Lorenza said he offered to get James' birth certificate from the house to prove it.

"Witness #1 [Lorenza] told me that AP#1 [James] was of legal age, and I informed him that he was now being detained for going into the house when I told him to come over for the cigarette" questioning, Bentley wrote in his report.

During the discussion outside, James went toward the steps of the house, and that's when the situation took a turn for the worse.

"As I was again attempting to explain to [Lorenza] what my purpose for being there was, I heard [Samuel] tell [James] that I was harassing them and had no business talking to them and told [James] to go into the house," Bentley wrote. James "then started walking towards the front door of the residence, at which time I took hold of [James'] right arm with my left hand, and told him to come have a seat in my police vehicle, which was to prevent [James] from leaving the area and help contain the situation."

Everyone present, including the Fields' 11-year-old grandson, Ryan Fails, agreed that Lorenza tried to step between James and the officer while continuing to beg Bentley to leave his son alone.

"I grabbed Lorenza and said, 'Don't touch him, man, this guy will shoot you,'" Samuel said. "James jerked away from the officer. The officer then threw James to the ground. I told the officer that he was out of line and that he needed to get up off of James when he was handcuffing him. He told me and Lorenza if we keep talking, he'd take us to jail, and to 'just shut up!'"

Bentley called for back-up, and several police cars showed up.

In the meantime, Samuel had gotten a pen and paper to begin getting officers' names and badge numbers.

"That's when one of the other officers that had arrived on the scene came over and asked, 'Which one of you is Samuel Fails?'" Samuel said. "I replied, 'I am.' The officer said, 'Turn around, you are under arrest.'"

Samuel said he asked the arresting officer, "You are going to arrest me without asking me anything? He said again, 'Turn around.' I complied and was handcuffed and escorted to the police car."

Both Samuel and James were arrested, taken to jail and charged with evading arrest/detention and interfering with public duties.

In addition to the treatment outside their parents' home and the time in jail, Samuel and James had to spend money on bail and attorneys -- none of which should have ever happened.

First of all, the officer should never have stopped to question James, who, by the way, is indeed 21 (born March 24, 1984, the date that clearly appears on the arrest record) even if he thought James was underage.

James was at a private residence minding his own business, and I would hate to think Fort Worth police make a habit of going on private property to question "suspects" about violating the underage smoking law.

And even if he thought James was an underage smoker, Bentley should have ended his "investigation" as soon as James' father appeared at the door and identified himself.

Note that the city ordinance governing underage possession of cigarettes states: "A person who is younger than 18 years of age commits an offense if the person: possesses, purchases, consumes or accepts receipt of a cigarette or tobacco product."

But then there is a very clear exception to that ordinance: "It is an exception to this section that the minor possessed, purchased, consumed or received the cigarette or tobacco product in the presence of the minor's parent, guardian or spouse."

So, had James actually been an underage smoker, the fact that he was at his parents' home with his father present meant no law was broken.

The officer in this case, perhaps beginning with good intentions, overreacted and is responsible for escalating a situation that should never have occurred.

The Tarrant County District Attorney's Office apparently understood that.

The cases against James and Samuel were dismissed last month. In papers filed with County Criminal Court No. 7, the stated reason for the dismissals was: "In the interests of justice."
Yes, justice did prevail, but this is a family that has been harmed, and they deserve more.

Last month, Samuel and Lorenza filed an official complaint with the Internal Affairs Division of the Fort Worth Police Department. This is one case in which the department, which never likes to admit a mistake, owes this family an apology.

How about it, Chief Ralph Mendoza?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:41:34 PM EDT
Nah, this can't be. We obviously don't have the whole story.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:44:11 PM EDT
wow


cop was probably a overzealous rookie.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:44:27 PM EDT
Insane.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:48:12 PM EDT
Since when was there a law prohibiting underage smokers?

I know it is illegal to purchase smokes underage... but possess?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:48:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 12:49:08 PM EDT by Blued-Steel]
I've told wife if a cop ever comes to the door, not to go outside or let them inside. Conduct all business through the storm door since some officers can become overzealous or most likely in our case have the wrong house.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:50:07 PM EDT
Did the dog survive the shooting?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:50:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 12:52:01 PM EDT by OBird]
In all honesty, the kid that got arrested was an idiot. If you are standing in a yard and you see a cop pull over, get out, and start walking twoard you, can anyone honestly believe that the kid "didn't know he wanted to talk to me?"?! If you start going the other way when you see a cop coming twoards you with the obvious intent of making contact with you, you've just screwed up. Fleeing a peace officer is legally a big no-no. There's really only two main reasons the kid would be trying to avoid the cop - to avoid questioning (cause he knew he was doing something illegal - even if he can legally smoke, it's his parent's property and if they say no, he can't smoke there) or if he was going back in to get a weapon (i.e., it was either "flight or fight"). Either way, the kid got what he had coming to him.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:53:09 PM EDT
Police attempt to detain person smoking outside(I agree it is for a chickenshit although legal reason) to verify identity and person goes into house after officer tells him not to.

Person gets mouthy and attempts to go back in house when police are still conducting their investigation. Officer grabs persons arm to prevent him from going into the house because he is not free to leave. Father interferes with this by getting between the officer and person he is trying to prevent from leaving.

Person being detained pulls away from officer and officer takes him to the ground and arrests him.

Backup arrives and arrests father for interfering with the arrest.


Although the reason for the stop was trivial the officer was correct. Had the 21 year old not made the officer think he was trying to evade him he would have been all set.

Usually people who want to get away from the police are people who are in violation of the law or wanted for some reason or another. The officer was most likely on a fishing expedition and used this to justify his stop, not unlike any other pretex stop. ie headlight out on car but looking for contraband.

Move along....nothing to see here.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:53:47 PM EDT
Its important we get those under age smokers off the streets.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:55:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARKAN_the_Tiger:
Its important we get those under age smokers off the streets.



Nice avatar!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:56:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:03:18 PM EDT
I guess there is no real crime in that city
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:07:53 PM EDT
Well if the kid didn't want to get handcuffed then he shouldn't have ran away.

If he didn't want to get questioned about his age because he was smoking and 21, tough. He ought to be glad he didn't get shot.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:15:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 1:18:10 PM EDT by mcgrubbs]
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:20:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:

If he didn't want to get questioned about his age because he was smoking and 21, tough. He ought to be glad he didn't get shot.



Ver are yur papers?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:24:56 PM EDT
GO WAR ON DRUGS!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:25:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 1:28:21 PM EDT by thebomber]

Originally Posted By OBird:
In all honesty, the kid that got arrested was an idiot. If you are standing in a yard and you see a cop pull over, get out, and start walking twoard you, can anyone honestly believe that the kid "didn't know he wanted to talk to me?"?! If you start going the other way when you see a cop coming twoards you with the obvious intent of making contact with you, you've just screwed up. Fleeing a peace officer is legally a big no-no. There's really only two main reasons the kid would be trying to avoid the cop - to avoid questioning (cause he knew he was doing something illegal - even if he can legally smoke, it's his parent's property and if they say no, he can't smoke there) or if he was going back in to get a weapon (i.e., it was either "flight or fight"). Either way, the kid got what he had coming to him.



The bottom line there was no crime committed and the cop had no reason to take it further that asking the parent how old the MAN was.

Bomber
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:26:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
Smoking is never a good idea.

ETA: You should tell people that you copied/pasted an op-ed piece, not an actual article. Everything that is in that blurb you posted is told from the viewpoint of the person writing the op-ed piece. Facts and opinions could actually be different than the way that particular individual interprets them.

Just FYI.....




Sadly, you have to take everything 'reported' that way, nowadays. They only report the 'facts' ya know.......

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:27:29 PM EDT

That's some BS. When I was in high school we had a smoking area and if your parents would sign for it you got a smoking permit so you could smoke during breaks. No big deal. I sold my teacher my M1 carbine at school. Things are goofy now.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:29:52 PM EDT
You have no obligation to talk to the police. The cop should hang.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:32:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
You have no obligation to talk to the police. The cop should hang.



1. You must identify yourself

2. If your not free to go...you can't go.

Flame on
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:34:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:
In all honesty, the kid that got arrested was an idiot. If you are standing in a yard and you see a cop pull over, get out, and start walking twoard you, can anyone honestly believe that the kid "didn't know he wanted to talk to me?"?! If you start going the other way when you see a cop coming twoards you with the obvious intent of making contact with you, you've just screwed up. Fleeing a peace officer is legally a big no-no. There's really only two main reasons the kid would be trying to avoid the cop - to avoid questioning (cause he knew he was doing something illegal - even if he can legally smoke, it's his parent's property and if they say no, he can't smoke there) or if he was going back in to get a weapon (i.e., it was either "flight or fight"). Either way, the kid got what he had coming to him.



Oh what a load of crap.

How about Scenario 3: He didn't feel like being BOTHERED by the police when he wasn't doing anything wrong.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:35:18 PM EDT
Hey Coppers, what would have happened had the boy refused to leave his domocile to talk to the over-zealous officer?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:35:40 PM EDT
Coming soon:

Is that an ice cream cone you are eating?

You look overweight, you know it's against the obesity law for you to eat ice cream.

Come with me.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:36:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By OBird:
In all honesty, the kid that got arrested was an idiot. If you are standing in a yard and you see a cop pull over, get out, and start walking twoard you, can anyone honestly believe that the kid "didn't know he wanted to talk to me?"?! If you start going the other way when you see a cop coming twoards you with the obvious intent of making contact with you, you've just screwed up. Fleeing a peace officer is legally a big no-no. There's really only two main reasons the kid would be trying to avoid the cop - to avoid questioning (cause he knew he was doing something illegal - even if he can legally smoke, it's his parent's property and if they say no, he can't smoke there) or if he was going back in to get a weapon (i.e., it was either "flight or fight"). Either way, the kid got what he had coming to him.



The bottom line there was no crime committed and the cop had no reason to take it further that asking the parent how old the MAN was.

Bomber



The officer was investigating wether there was a crime committed. Similar to age restrictions on alcoholic beverages. The reason it went further was because the kid tried to leave and pulled away from the police officer. Had he provided ID this would be a non-issue.


Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:37:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARKAN_the_Tiger:
Hey Coppers, what would have happened had the boy refused to leave his domocile to talk to the over-zealous officer?



SOP is to shoot the dog prior to the "vent and burn."

It is the only way to try and save the suspects.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:37:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justice23:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
You have no obligation to talk to the police. The cop should hang.



1. You must identify yourself if there is a law in your state requiring you to do so.

2. If your not free to go...you can't go. Now that's profound.

Flame on

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:38:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

The bottom line there was no crime committed and the cop had no reason to take it further that asking the parent how old the MAN was.

Bomber



Just another small step toward the police state.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:41:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By justice23:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
You have no obligation to talk to the police. The cop should hang.



1. You must identify yourself if there is a law in your state requiring you to do so.

2. If your not free to go...you can't go. Now that's profound.

Flame on




Ok I'll play....

Where can you refuse to identify yourself to a police officer and not get at least brought in for a picture and prints?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:42:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 1:49:51 PM EDT by 82ndAbn]

Originally Posted By HarryStone:
Well if the kid didn't want to get handcuffed then he shouldn't have ran away.

If he didn't want to get questioned about his age because he was smoking and 21, tough. He ought to be glad he didn't get shot.



edited ~ 82ndAbn
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:44:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
You have no obligation to talk to the police. The cop should hang.



Even if he did, he was on private property smoking a cigarette.

If I fucked up that bad over something so trivial I'd be unemployed. Just as the seven responders in this case should be. The first cop needs some fucking counseling and shouldn't be walking around with a gun until he gets back on his meds or off the steroids.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:51:03 PM EDT
Wife to Husband: How was your day in the field?
Husband to Wife (with a big smile): I almost busted a kid for being an underaged smoker.
Wife to Husband: Ooh that's my big brave lawman. How do you find time for such things?..
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:51:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 1:52:26 PM EDT by Appelsientje]
The cops nowadays are fucking Nazis. If they keep pulling shit like this, there's going to be a revolution.

I've been living in Holland for several months, and sometimes I go weeks without seeing ANY police (and this is in a city of over 150,000 people). And when I do see them, they're usually riding in pairs on bicycles. Furthermore, they're polite. They treat you like a human being instead of a criminal. What the fuck is wrong with police in america? They have their own culture and see themselves as super-citizens, just like the Nazis did. They need to be put in their place. They need to be told that Americans run this country, not the ones wearing a badge, which might as well be an armband. I'd rather take my chances with crime than have to put up with today's blue regime. FUCK THE POLICE
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:53:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justice23:
Police attempt to detain person smoking outside(I agree it is for a chickenshit although legal reason) to verify identity and person goes into house after officer tells him not to.

Person gets mouthy and attempts to go back in house when police are still conducting their investigation. Officer grabs persons arm to prevent him from going into the house because he is not free to leave. Father interferes with this by getting between the officer and person he is trying to prevent from leaving.

Person being detained pulls away from officer and officer takes him to the ground and arrests him.

Backup arrives and arrests father for interfering with the arrest.


Although the reason for the stop was trivial the officer was correct. Had the 21 year old not made the officer think he was trying to evade him he would have been all set.

Usually people who want to get away from the police are people who are in violation of the law or wanted for some reason or another. The officer was most likely on a fishing expedition and used this to justify his stop, not unlike any other pretex stop. ie headlight out on car but looking for contraband.

Move along....nothing to see here.



+1
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:54:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Appelsientje:
The cops nowadays are fucking Nazis. If they keep pulling shit like this, there's going to be a revolution.

I've been living in Holland for several months, and sometimes I go weeks without seeing ANY police (and this is in a city of over 150,000 people). And when I do see them, they're usually riding in pairs on bicycles. Furthermore, they're polite. They treat you like a human being instead of a criminal. What the fuck is wrong with police in america? They have their own culture and see themselves as super-citizens, just like the Nazis did. They need to be put in their place. They need to be told that Americans run this country, not the ones wearing a badge, which might as well be an armband. I'd rather take my chances with crime than have to put up with today's blue regime. FUCK THE POLICE



Hey man, just say what you mean... don't sugarcoat it...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:55:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:56:28 PM EDT
The problem with most officers is that they think since they have a badge they have absolute power and the do as I say or you go to jail attitude. Which in my opinion is a load of crap. My father has been an officer for over 25yrs. I have never seen him portray that attitude. The officers(especially Texas) need better training and get off the attitude complex. Not everybody is a criminal and there isn't any law anywhere that says we have to talk to you or we have to listen to you treat us like shit and slam our heads into the car roof.
I have seen it alot and I think it is mostly unjustified and in all honesty you get away with too much most of the time.
I am not saying I am anti cop or anything like that. We need rules for society and if you can't follow them, by all means they should be locked up, but that doesn't mean if you have a badge you can break the rules.
I am not trying to piss anybody off or upset anybody, and that isn't my intent. If we can't look to you for protection and uphold the law, who can we look to? If we see you break the law, what makes you any better than a common criminal.
I could go on and on with this, but I won't. We are all people, but because you carry a badge doesn't make you the judge and jury at the same time. Just remember that next time you let your emotions get the better of your judgement.
Be safe, watch your six, and squeeze, don't pull.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:56:56 PM EDT
The entire situation would have been defused if the idiotic cop had allowed the father to get the birth certificate. At that time the father had done nothing wrong, was not under detention, and it would have ended there. But Nooooooooo, "respect ma authority" comes into play, the situation is escalated on both sides and 2 people are hauled off to the the pokey. All over a MARLBORO. A damn cigarette, and some cop tosses someone in jail over smoking in their own yard. Ya know, the cop might have been right, but he was still an asshole.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:59:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Since when was there a law prohibiting underage smokers?

I know it is illegal to purchase smokes underage... but possess?



never heard of an MIP? Minor in possession? but as far as I know the cop can do nothing to someone on their own property.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:02:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justice23:

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By OBird:
In all honesty, the kid that got arrested was an idiot. If you are standing in a yard and you see a cop pull over, get out, and start walking twoard you, can anyone honestly believe that the kid "didn't know he wanted to talk to me?"?! If you start going the other way when you see a cop coming twoards you with the obvious intent of making contact with you, you've just screwed up. Fleeing a peace officer is legally a big no-no. There's really only two main reasons the kid would be trying to avoid the cop - to avoid questioning (cause he knew he was doing something illegal - even if he can legally smoke, it's his parent's property and if they say no, he can't smoke there) or if he was going back in to get a weapon (i.e., it was either "flight or fight"). Either way, the kid got what he had coming to him.



The bottom line there was no crime committed and the cop had no reason to take it further that asking the parent how old the MAN was.

Bomber



The officer was investigating wether there was a crime committed. Similar to age restrictions on alcoholic beverages. The reason it went further was because the kid tried to leave and pulled away from the police officer. Had he provided ID this would be a non-issue.






You're serious aren't you. This situation is rediculous and it wasn't the kid's fault. So he walked in the house, BFD. As soon as his age was verified, there should have been an explaination and apology. That should have been the end of the story.

Bomber
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:04:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By purplecheese:

Originally Posted By HarryStone:

If he didn't want to get questioned about his age because he was smoking and 21, tough. He ought to be glad he didn't get shot.



Ver are yur papers?



If you really think America is in danger of becoming a police state you'd understand why I think the guy was lucky to not have been shot.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:05:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 2:07:18 PM EDT by memyselfandi]
Where is the line between entering a house without a warrant and entering property lines without a warrant? Isnt one the same as the other? Private property? FW cops aren't known for being friendly and sensible.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:08:24 PM EDT
I'll stay out of this until tcguy shows up...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:09:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
I'll stay out of this until tcguy shows up...



+1.

IBTTC556G.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:15:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By justice23:

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By OBird:
In all honesty, the kid that got arrested was an idiot. If you are standing in a yard and you see a cop pull over, get out, and start walking twoard you, can anyone honestly believe that the kid "didn't know he wanted to talk to me?"?! If you start going the other way when you see a cop coming twoards you with the obvious intent of making contact with you, you've just screwed up. Fleeing a peace officer is legally a big no-no. There's really only two main reasons the kid would be trying to avoid the cop - to avoid questioning (cause he knew he was doing something illegal - even if he can legally smoke, it's his parent's property and if they say no, he can't smoke there) or if he was going back in to get a weapon (i.e., it was either "flight or fight"). Either way, the kid got what he had coming to him.



The bottom line there was no crime committed and the cop had no reason to take it further that asking the parent how old the MAN was.

Bomber



The officer was investigating wether there was a crime committed. Similar to age restrictions on alcoholic beverages. The reason it went further was because the kid tried to leave and pulled away from the police officer. Had he provided ID this would be a non-issue.






You're serious aren't you. This situation is rediculous and it wasn't the kid's fault. So he walked in the house, BFD. As soon as his age was verified, there should have been an explaination and apology. That should have been the end of the story.

Bomber



I'm serious. It was a chickenshit pretex stop, but lawful. People who try to get away from the police usually have a reason, don't be naive. As for verifying ID I agree it should have been the end of the story but they never got to that point...
<snip>
"As I was again attempting to explain to [Lorenza] what my purpose for being there was, I heard [Samuel] tell [James] that I was harassing them and had no business talking to them and told [James] to go into the house," Bentley wrote. James "then started walking towards the front door of the residence, at which time I took hold of [James'] right arm with my left hand, and told him to come have a seat in my police vehicle, which was to prevent [James] from leaving the area and help contain the situation."<snip>

Instead of proving the kids age the father said the cops were harassing them and told the kid, who was being lawfully detained, to go inside. That is where things got to the point where people got arrested.

There is no rocket science here, what is so hard to understand??

Again...I think it was a bullshit stop.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:15:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 2:16:16 PM EDT by HarryStone]
All this foaming at the mouth because some cop questioned this guy about smoking is retarded. If you don't want cops to do this sort of thing, then you need to repeal the law against underage smoking.

If the police are supposed to use good judgement and not hassle a guy who is 21 and smoking in his front yard, then the only way to make that happen is to take away their legal ability to enforce that law all together. Saying "well the cop should have known better" is ridiculous. Trusting them to know better or do the right thing is where the problem starts.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:15:30 PM EDT
Based on this thread and some others, I think we can safely say that we have some LEO members of this board who will gladly TRY to collect firearms when the order is given to confiscate them all.

Mind you, I said SOME LEOs, not all. I believe it is pretty obvious who they are.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:17:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 2:18:56 PM EDT by junebug68]
Sounds like just another asshole cop abusing his authority. All of you who apologize for the way he handled it, go ahead and get on the train... "arbeit macht frei"....you'll be fine.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:17:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
Where is the line between entering a house without a warrant and entering property lines without a warrant? Isnt one the same as the other? Private property? FW cops aren't known for being friendly and sensible.



thats what i was thinking, he was on private property, what the hell is cop dpoing there?

father should have told the NAZI to leave his property
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:20:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wump:

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
Where is the line between entering a house without a warrant and entering property lines without a warrant? Isnt one the same as the other? Private property? FW cops aren't known for being friendly and sensible.



thats what i was thinking, he was on private property, what the hell is cop dpoing there?

father should have told the NAZI to leave his property



I know, but don't worry, many here will say the kid should have "submitted", even though he did nothing wrong.
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