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Posted: 1/13/2006 11:00:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 11:10:09 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Every year I see these stupid "buy back" programs on the news where mostly "po folks" trade in crappy guns for a $20 gift certificate at the local sneaker store. And the news gloats at the hundreds of dangerous weapons (which always include a handful of valuable collectables stolen from some person) which were removed from the street.

And invariably these guns (including a few stolen collectables) are destroyed by the local PD. And the local CLEO announces how safe the city/county now is and we all breath a collective sigh of relief.

We should do our civic duty as well.

In every major city (except perhaps in California) there MUST be a FFL who posts here. And a FFL is all that is needed to make a gun buyback program LEGAL.

Now OBVIOUSLY if "Joe Bobs Guns" does a buyback it is NOT going to get the same liberal media promotion and support that would be necessary to make it practical.

So here is what you do:

First the FFL who is actually the person who takes possession of the guns legally is NOT represented as a "dealer" but as a person who is "FEDERALLY LICENSED" to take possession of these firearms. It is also important to state the intended disposition of the collected firearms. Stress that they WILL NOT be "returned to the street" as it would be illegal for even a FFL to leave them on the sidewalk and walk away.

Then you get some freinds to start a volunteer program and call it "Safe Streets" or some similarly insidious name. This is obviously a grass roots program dedicated to community safety by removing the threat of guns in the hands of potential criminals. The organization need not be anything more than a name and a P.O. Box.

Volunteers of that group then need to go to businesses in the community (such as sneaker stores, Best Buys, etc.) and seek support. These businesses will then become "sponsors" of your buyback and should receive the appropriate advertising and promotion during the buy back program. While most won't donate money, they will donate things like gift certificates and coupons that can be redeemed in their store. This way you don't have to buy 40 crappy ass Lorcins out of your own pocket at $20 each.

As soon as you have the sponsorship and support of a few businesses (the more dedicated to getting rid of guns the better - let the antis buy them for you) contact the local media so they can ALSO support and promote your "buyback" program on the local news. Any promotional material should note that firearms will either be turned over to the police for destruction, provided to law enforcement for "official use", provided to museums for exhibits or to other properly licensed individuals. And make sure to give all the broken crap to the local PD for destruction. Again, they will not be "returned to the street." The "street" is nto a eligible purchaser of firearms in any case.

Then "armed" with a boxfull of coupons and gift certificates from local businesses who also think "guns" need to be "off the streets" you do your buyback. Remember to offer "crackhead prices." $20 coupons for handguns and $40 coupons for rifles or shotguns is about average. Remember you are dealing with idiots and liberals so when they balk at the prices and suggest they could get more elsewhere remind them that it is ILLEGAL to sell guns for profit without a license. And if they try and sell them "on the street" they could go to jail "forever." Also remind them that they our doing THEIR part to improve their local community by trading guns for sneakers or radios. Think of the "children" after all. Do your best to keep a straight face.

If you can somehow manage to have a uniformed police officer present, even better. Be careful NOT to misrepresent yourself. Again, you are a representative of "Citizens for Safe Streets" and NOT a buyer from "Joe Bobs Guns." I'd caution against contacting the local PD for direct support of your buyback because in almost EVERY case they will want to take possession of the firearms. Contact the PD with regard to getting a "detail" officer to provide security to your "event." You can also use a local security like Wackenhut as well, a uniform with a badge and a gun is all that is needed to be "official."

Then you simply "log in" every firearm that they give you "in trade" for a coupon.

As YOU are one of those "properly licensed individuals" mentioned in the promotional material, you will of course KEEP all the "viable" firearms. And you will have done so honestly and legally.

Again, provide the broken CRAP to the local PD for destruction and get as much media participation of that as possible. You can use it for future promotions of your NEXT buyback.

As for any collectables, those may be quietly retained in your collection. And the bulk of the run of the mill firearms can legally be sold to other "properly licensed individuals." Do NOT sell them locally in your gunshop. Sell them on internet auction sites that way they ALL go to "properly licensed individuals" aka FFLs.

And that boys and girls is how you get guns off the streets.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:06:58 AM EDT
Aweseme.

Abso-fucking-lutely awesome idea.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:10:28 AM EDT
I like it.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:12:23 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:13:57 AM EDT
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:14:56 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:14:57 AM EDT
Awesome idea, indeed.

Only down side I see is that we would be reinforcing the idea that gun buybacks are a good thing.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:15:05 AM EDT
I suggest you do not call it a "buy back". It is a gun turn-in. For every person that turns in a gun, a thank you gift of sneakers, tickets, ipods, whatever are available if the citizen wants one.

I know about this, because I ran one in 98 or 99 as a investigative story. It was written up in several places including the California NRA website.

YMMV
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:16:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?



Go ahead without one if you are brave enough.

Buying and selling guns for profit without a FFL has been deemed hazardous to your health by the ATF.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:16:57 AM EDT
It's funny because it's true! I can see the thread in the VA hometown forum now. "Anybody want to do a buyback in Richmond?" MJD
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:17:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Awesome idea, indeed.

Only down side I see is that we would be reinforcing the idea that gun buybacks are a good thing.



After all our hard work we STILL have gun people who call magazines "clips." Some things I just don't think we are ever gonna fix.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:17:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 11:17:52 AM EDT by SubnetMask]
It's times like this I wish I had an FFL. Seriously.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:17:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?



I agree. Isn't just akin to me going on a buying spree, or posting an ad in the paper "Wanted to Buy: Used Guns".?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:18:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
I suggest you do not call it a "buy back". It is a gun turn-in. For every person that turns in a gun, a thank you gift of sneakers, tickets, ipods, whatever are available if the citizen wants one.

I know about this, because I ran one in 98 or 99 as a investigative story. It was written up in several places including the California NRA website.

YMMV



To WORK, especially on the liberal idiots and media who are NECESSARY for it to work, you have to use THEIR buzzwords.

It's exactly like getting laid, you tell them what they need to hear.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:18:21 AM EDT
Glad SOMEBODY is thinkin'!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:18:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?



Go ahead without one if you are brave enough.

Buying and selling guns for profit without a FFL has been deemed hazardous to your health by the ATF.



Who said you had to sell them afterwards?
Your just buying for your own collection.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:19:15 AM EDT
Actually, another idea that I've seen used before (and liked) was as follows:

Local PD and gubmint types offer program to buyback guns on such and such date and time.
If I recall, they were offering a bit more, something like $50 Walmart cards for handguns and $75 Walmart cards for long guns.
Local pawn shop dealer loads up all the crappiest guns that he's taken in trade and can't sell for $25 a piece, takes them to the buy-back and makes a killing on Walmart cards. In doing so, he also had so many guns to process that they didn't have time to process the supposed guns coming off the streets.

That's what needs to be done again.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:19:19 AM EDT
This is a fine idea, except when the dealer buys stolen guns or ones used in a crime. Will he have the same protections as a police backed program?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:19:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tifosi:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?



I agree. Isn't just akin to me going on a buying spree, or posting an ad in the paper "Wanted to Buy: Used Guns".?



Have at it. Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:20:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tifosi:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?



Go ahead without one if you are brave enough.

Buying and selling guns for profit without a FFL has been deemed hazardous to your health by the ATF.



Who said you had to sell them afterwards?
Your just buying for your own collection.




Good luck getting support for that.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:21:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By P08:
This is a fine idea, except when the dealer buys stolen guns or ones used in a crime. Will he have the same protections as a police backed program?



Exact same protection as when a gun store buys a used gun or when you buy one at a gun show.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:21:35 AM EDT
"YOU can take this gun off the streets- buy it yourself."
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:22:03 AM EDT
I approve of this idea.


Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:22:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vsound:
Actually, another idea that I've seen used before (and liked) was as follows:

Local PD and gubmint types offer program to buyback guns on such and such date and time.
If I recall, they were offering a bit more, something like $50 Walmart cards for handguns and $75 Walmart cards for long guns.
Local pawn shop dealer loads up all the crappiest guns that he's taken in trade and can't sell for $25 a piece, takes them to the buy-back and makes a killing on Walmart cards. In doing so, he also had so many guns to process that they didn't have time to process the supposed guns coming off the streets.

That's what needs to be done again.




This is ALSO a tried and true plan.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:25:08 AM EDT
Job Bob 's Gun Shop, LLC dba Safe Streets USA
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:25:42 AM EDT
Another idea, go to the buybacks and see who has anything good and then offer them $75 cash for the nice stuff. MJD
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:26:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By tifosi:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?



Go ahead without one if you are brave enough.

Buying and selling guns for profit without a FFL has been deemed hazardous to your health by the ATF.



Who said you had to sell them afterwards?
Your just buying for your own collection.





Good luck getting support for that.



I'm not trying to be a wise ass. I am seriously trying to understand what the difference is with a collector putting out a "Wanted" ad? It is still legal to buy guns from private parties without limitations on quantities, isn't it?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:30:30 AM EDT


"Is it true you knowingly bought these firearms to resell for profit actually resulting in zero loss of guns flowing in the streets??"





"Is it twoo that you stowle these guns fwom downtwodden indigents to make yourself a profit"

Two words- Senate Investigation.


Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:30:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tifosi:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By tifosi:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?



Go ahead without one if you are brave enough.

Buying and selling guns for profit without a FFL has been deemed hazardous to your health by the ATF.



Who said you had to sell them afterwards?
Your just buying for your own collection.





Good luck getting support for that.



I'm not trying to be a wise ass. I am seriously trying to understand what the difference is with a collector putting out a "Wanted" ad? It is still legal to buy guns from private parties without limitations on quantities, isn't it?



So what is your planned announced disposition for the collected firearms?

Destroyed or my collection?

Do you really think local businesses and media are going to back your private purchases?

Also when you collect 200+ firearms and begin selling them on the internet, how long do you think it will take ATF to shoot your dog?

When you do something like a "buy back" it isn't hard for ATF to "determine" you are "engaged in business for profit."

But if you want to go for it, have at it and good luck.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:31:39 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:33:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 11:35:25 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By CavVet:
www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/antoinette_frank/Mike-Wallace150.jpg

"Is it true you knowingly bought these firearms to resell for profit actually resulting in zero loss of guns flowing in the streets??"


www.born-today.com/Today/pix/walters_b.jpg


"Is it twoo that you stowle these guns fwom downtwodden indigents to make yourself a profit"

Two words- Senate Investigation.






"firearms will either be turned over to the police for destruction, provided to law enforcement for "official use", provided to museums for exhibits or to other properly licensed individuals."

And we have documentation regarding the actual legal disposition of every single one of them.

And on a personal note I can't believe you are giving us a hard time when we are just trying to make the streets safer. We collected 200+ guns that are NO LONGER on the street.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:35:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 11:35:58 AM EDT by fadedsun]
I will help out provided I get first crack at the first Arsenal rifle or RR M16 that comes along.



C'mon, make my dreams come true!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:43:11 AM EDT
I like it!

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:06:29 PM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:13:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Awesome idea, indeed.

Only down side I see is that we would be reinforcing the idea that gun buybacks are a good thing.



They are a good thing if we are the ones doing them. Need to steal the thunder from the antis who actually destroy the firearms. I have nothing against melting lorcins, jennings, and hi points though, that might be fun.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:17:37 PM EDT
Great idea Steyr,

But I see one problem....you will have 200 people show up to turn in their guns...but you will only buy 2 or 3 because the rest are junkHow many Lorcin and Ravens do you want to buy?

In order not to alert the media or the LEO to your plans to "get guns off the streets....at a cheap price" you should have a banner stating that you want to only get AUGs, HKs, SIGs, FNC, Galils, and AR15s off the streets

Chris
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:19:57 PM EDT
OK, I'll help. Buying AR-10's at $100. each, and I'll cover any normal (customarily $20.) FFL fees. Same for Browning Hi-Power, or wartime P-35s.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:24:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
I will help out provided I get first crack at the first Arsenal rifle or RR M16 that comes along.



C'mon, make my dreams come true!



What would happen if someone turned in a title 2 weapon?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:25:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
I will help out provided I get first crack at the first Arsenal rifle or RR M16 that comes along.



C'mon, make my dreams come true!



What would happen if someone turned in a title 2 weapon?



Move along people, nothing to see here...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:27:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tifosi:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By tifosi:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Why would an FFL holder be necessary to take possession of the guns? Private party transfer is legal in most states, isn't it?



Go ahead without one if you are brave enough.

Buying and selling guns for profit without a FFL has been deemed hazardous to your health by the ATF.



Who said you had to sell them afterwards?
Your just buying for your own collection.





Good luck getting support for that.



I'm not trying to be a wise ass. I am seriously trying to understand what the difference is with a collector putting out a "Wanted" ad? It is still legal to buy guns from private parties without limitations on quantities, isn't it?



Depends on what the collector is buying and, most importantly the disposition. A collector putting out such an ad would be self-limiting: I doubt that person would be buying all items presented. That is, as a collector, I would want certain items and not buy certain others. Anyone who would buy everything as a regular course of transaction could be suspect. To be sure, sometimes one has to buy the entire lot of what a seller is selling (by the seller's insistence) to get the one or two items one wants. So, no laws are of any help there. The real key is disposition. If this person turns around and starts selling the same guns over the internet on a regular and repetitive basis, or even in a local newspaper, that person might be deemed to be "in the business." On the other hand, one might sell 8 out of 10 guns bought because one had to buy the 10 to get the 2 one wanted. Far fetched? OK, Jennings, Loring, assorted Saturday night specials, two '86 Winchesters, and one other really beat up S&W model 10 with cartridges corroded in. Easy choices. Under Federal law, one can buy and sell to "improve one's collection."
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:28:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
Great idea Steyr,

But I see one problem....you will have 200 people show up to turn in their guns...but you will only buy 2 or 3 because the rest are junkHow many Lorcin and Ravens do you want to buy?

In order not to alert the media or the LEO to your plans to "get guns off the streets....at a cheap price" you should have a banner stating that you want to only get AUGs, HKs, SIGs, FNC, Galils, and AR15s off the streets

Chris



That is why you get sponsors.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:29:43 PM EDT
screw that, theres a high chance that a fair amount of those guns are stolen and/or have altered serial numbers.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:35:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
screw that, theres a high chance that a fair amount of those guns are stolen and/or have altered serial numbers.



Restamp or remark, when its all said and done it is just a firearm with a S/N. If its stolen you can track the rightful owner and reunite him with his lost love.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:33:35 PM EDT
I plan to sit in a lawnchair with a roll of $100 bills. Right next to the door.
If I see something I want, I strike up a deal. If someone wants to bitch about it, they can suck a nut.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:37:08 PM EDT
The press would build a Cindy Sheehan-like tent in your rectum and camp there until you were dead.

Still, it is a nice idea.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:13:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 3:13:36 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
The press would build a Cindy Sheehan-like tent in your rectum and camp there until you were dead.

Still, it is a nice idea.



It's actually been done before. I'm just sharing.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:23:55 PM EDT
Another plus is that an FFL can go to Other States and buy firearms. Unlicensed individuals cannot.

So if somebody sees a "Buy Back" program in say, St. Louis, the FFL can go there, buy the weapons there, and then sell them at their home address.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:33:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:13:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
The press would build a Cindy Sheehan-like tent in your rectum and camp there until you were dead.

Still, it is a nice idea.



It's actually been done before. I'm just sharing.



You mean someone pulled this off already and didn't get anally probed for it????

Well hells bells! If you want to do one in Virginia, I will gladly help!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:21:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:29:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:
I will help out provided I get first crack at the first Arsenal rifle or RR M16 that comes along.



C'mon, make my dreams come true!



What would happen if someone turned in a title 2 weapon?



SBR/SBS?

Toss it into the ARFCOM general Armory.

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