Genius points Airsoft MAC copy at officers, gets a double tap - Can you spot the airsoft in the pic

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Genius points Airsoft MAC copy at officers, gets a double tap - Can you spot the airsoft in the pic (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:50:44 PM EDT

I'm getting sick of seeing Airsofts called Pellet and BB guns in the media, seems to be happening daily now.

Pellet Gun That Looked All-Too-Real Led To Police Shooting

January 11, 2006

PIERCE COUNTY - State troopers say when an 18-year-old pulled a gun on them, they did what they're trained to do: shoot back.

But here's the twist. The gun wasn't real. Yet the trooper had no way of knowing because the pellet gun looked very real.

When 18-year-old Michael Cleveland's car spun to a stop Monday morning after a three county high speed chase, the State Patrol says he pulled a gun on a trooper.

The trooper fired first, and shot Cleveland twice. Luckily, the wounds weren't fatal.

Investigators tell us they got a shock when they found the gun in Cleveland's car. It was only a pellet gun that shoots hard plastic BB's.

But, "any police officer working out on the road who has this particular weapon pointed at him would definitely make the assumption that he has the right to use lethal force, because of how real this firearm looks," said Trooper J.J. Gunderman.

The pellet gun is in this display of real guns. But can you find it?

It's the second one from the left. Troopers say it's an exact replica of a Mac 12 handheld sub machine gun, capable of firing 1,600 rounds per minute on full auto.

The law says pellet guns are supposed to have orange markings so nobody will think they are real. But troopers say criminals paint them black to get a more authentic look.

And they told KOMO 4 News more kids are buying them and having pellet gun wars.

"But in reality, it is not an innocent gun," Gunderman said. "This gun looks like a real gun and it can easily be mistaken for a real gun and can have some tragic results as was the case on Monday morning."

Troopers want parents to stop buying pellet guns for their kids. Because to a cop in that life-or-death moment, they all look real.

The suspect is still hospitalized. When he's released, he'll likely be charged with assault on a police officer and several other crimes.

http://komonews.com/news/story.asp?ID=41251

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:52:31 PM EDT

[#1]

Coming to a banning near you.

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:53:00 PM EDT

[#2]

remember when laser tag was yanked from the shelves for a while then sold for real cheap (like 1/10th the price)?????
a kid pointed it at a cop and got killed - it does not have to look real to scare a cop into shooting you

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:54:25 PM EDT

[#3]

Point your finger at a cop can get ou shot now-a-days...

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:54:41 PM EDT

[#4]

Yeah, there'll be a law because of this stupid dip shit.

Sure, that thing "looks" real, but what if it was made out of wood? Would they ban wood?

Probably

It's the second one from the left. Troopers say it's an exact replica of a Mac 12 handheld sub machine gun, capable of firing 1,600 rounds per minute on full auto.

Lesson of the decade...point something at a police officer that looks like a gun and you're probably going to get shot. Doesn't take a genious to figure that one out.

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:55:26 PM EDT

[#5]

what is to stop a criminal from painting the tip of a real gun orange?

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:55:37 PM EDT

[#6]

It looks like Darwin just missed his first possible nominee of the year.

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:55:39 PM EDT

[#7]

People have been shot holding cell phones and flyswatters and it was found justified...

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:55:45 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:56:17 PM EDT

[#9]

The MAC 12 with more thrusts per squeeze and is porclein so it goes though metal betectors

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:56:50 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Point your finger at a cop can get ou shot now-a-days...

when you have a full-scale, exact replica of a gun, I think you should expect to get your ass shot if you point it at another person PERIOD.

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:58:43 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

Alert

You are going to make a fine doctor.

Too smart for your own good.

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:59:23 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

The HORROR.

Baaaa baaaa baaaa.

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:59:24 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Point your finger at a cop can get ou shot now-a-days...

when you have a full-scale, exact replica of a gun, I think you should expect to get your ass shot if you point it at another person PERIOD.

That I know, I meant the way tings are now-a-days, you could point your finger and get shot....I say good call on the cops, they didnt know...

Posted: 1/11/2006 6:59:51 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Point your finger at a cop can get ou shot now-a-days...

when you have a full-scale, exact replica of a gun, I think you should expect to get your ass shot if you point it at another person PERIOD.

Well, no shit. It takes a pretty stupid individual NOT to realize that. And you CAN NOT regulate stupidity.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:00:10 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

So can sling shots, Daisy BB guns, pencils, knives, forks, spoons, and etc etc etc...........

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:00:37 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
what is to stop a criminal from painting the tip of a real gun orange?

I was thinking of painting the flash hider on my AR orange, but only if I could quickly change it for a normal one. Since I have a 14.5" bbl, that is unlikely.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:01:53 PM EDT

[#17]

1,600 rounds per minute on full auto.

and you only need about 50 full mags to do so!

whatever. real - not real, the kid is a fvcking idiot for pointing something at a cop.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:02:16 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

So can sling shots, Daisy BB guns, pencils, knives, forks, spoons, and etc etc etc...........

difference is that Airsoft guns are made as toys... you know, things for children to use in play with each other. I see no problem with regulating realistic airsoft guns to adults only along with actual air rifles.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:02:42 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

Are you related to tc556guy?

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:03:30 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
difference is that Airsoft guns are made as toys... you know, things for children to use in play with each other. I see no problem with regulating realistic airsoft guns to adults only along with actual air rifles.

Baaaa baaaa baaaa.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:04:22 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

So can sling shots, Daisy BB guns, pencils, knives, forks, spoons, and etc etc etc...........

difference is that Airsoft guns are made as toys... you know, things for children to use in play with each other. I see no problem with regulating realistic airsoft guns to adults only along with actual air rifles.

Airsift guns are not made as TOYS!!!! Just like real BB guns, NOT toys.. They even put warnings on the box and manuals that there NOT toys.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:07:02 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

So can sling shots, Daisy BB guns, pencils, knives, forks, spoons, and etc etc etc...........

difference is that Airsoft guns are made as toys... you know, things for children to use in play with each other. I see no problem with regulating realistic airsoft guns to adults only along with actual air rifles.

You are an idiot. I also bet a nickel you never see the inside of a med school classroom. They tend to weed out the idiots.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:07:41 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

The pellet gun is in this display of real guns. But can you find it?
www.komotv.com/news/images/gun_question_011106.jpg

It's the second one from the left. Troopers say it's an exact replica of a Mac 12 handheld sub machine gun, capable of firing 1,600 rounds per minute on full auto.

http://komonews.com/news/story.asp?ID=41251

It's more dangerous than a Mac 10!

Don't point things that look like guns at people who are already pointing a gun at you.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:07:44 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

So can sling shots, Daisy BB guns, pencils, knives, forks, spoons, and etc etc etc...........

difference is that Airsoft guns are made as toys... you know, things for children to use in play with each other. I see no problem with regulating realistic airsoft guns to adults only along with actual air rifles.

Airsift guns are not made as TOYS!!!! Just like real BB guns, NOT toys.. They even put warnings on the box and manuals that there NOT toys.

then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:09:34 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

So can sling shots, Daisy BB guns, pencils, knives, forks, spoons, and etc etc etc...........

difference is that Airsoft guns are made as toys... you know, things for children to use in play with each other. I see no problem with regulating realistic airsoft guns to adults only along with actual air rifles.

Airsift guns are not made as TOYS!!!! Just like real BB guns, NOT toys.. They even put warnings on the box and manuals that there NOT toys.

sounds like somebody here owns an airsoft...

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:10:40 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

How the fuck did we make it as a species?

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:11:10 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

So can sling shots, Daisy BB guns, pencils, knives, forks, spoons, and etc etc etc...........

difference is that Airsoft guns are made as toys... you know, things for children to use in play with each other. I see no problem with regulating realistic airsoft guns to adults only along with actual air rifles.

Airsift guns are not made as TOYS!!!! Just like real BB guns, NOT toys.. They even put warnings on the box and manuals that there NOT toys.

then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

Don't forget: Every store I've seen that carries them won't sell them to anyone under 18 without a parent present.

WTF is a MAC 12 anyway?

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:12:09 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

sounds like somebody here owns an airsoft...

Sure do. I enjoy airsoft. Its fun, gets me outside, around people (I only play the big games w/ 100+ people) and well, its fun.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:13:43 PM EDT

[#29]

I don't see the problem here ?

He pointed the gun at an officer, and got shot. Darwin principal.

In Australia they are banned completely

In New Zealand there are considered Toys, anyone can get them, there is not 'orange' requirement.
However if you commit a crime with a 'replica' then the punishments are them same as a real gun
In this case he could be charged with presenting a firearm, maybe even threatening the life of an officer.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:13:48 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

Reading comprehension is also key in med school:

PIERCE COUNTY - State troopers say when an 18-year-old pulled a gun on them, they did what they're trained to do: shoot back.

Your nanny-state laws would have made such a difference.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:17:28 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I don't see the problem here ?

He pointed the gun at an officer, and got shot. Darwin principal.

Nobody's debating that, I just find the negative anti-gun errornous media reporting irritating for the most part.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:19:36 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

Reading comprehension is also key in med school:

PIERCE COUNTY - State troopers say when an 18-year-old pulled a gun on them, they did what they're trained to do: shoot back.

Your nanny-state laws would have made such a difference.

which is why I was almost not going to go back on my original claim that we should ban them outright. Hell, if we legalized the manufacture of machine guns for civilians, there probably wouldn't be a market for these things anymore.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:21:27 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

which is why I was almost not going to go back on my original claim that we should ban them outright. Hell, if we legalized the manufacture of machine guns for civilians, there probably wouldn't be a market for these things anymore.

Dude, put down the pipe and step slowly away

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:24:17 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

Reading comprehension is also key in med school:

PIERCE COUNTY - State troopers say when an 18-year-old pulled a gun on them, they did what they're trained to do: shoot back.

Your nanny-state laws would have made such a difference.

~~which is why I was almost not going to go back on my original claim that we should ban them outright. Hell, if we~~ legalized the manufacture of machine guns for civilians, ~~there probably wouldn't be a market for these things anymore.~~

NOW I AGREE WITH THAT!!!!! WOOT!!!

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:26:25 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

Reading comprehension is also key in med school:

PIERCE COUNTY - State troopers say when an 18-year-old pulled a gun on them, they did what they're trained to do: shoot back.

Your nanny-state laws would have made such a difference.

~~which is why I was almost not going to go back on my original claim that we should ban them outright. Hell, if we~~ legalized the manufacture of machine guns for civilians, ~~there probably wouldn't be a market for these things anymore.~~

NOW I AGREE WITH THAT!!!!! WOOT!!!

All I am trying to say is that a cop should not have to worry about, or deal with the guilt, of shooting a kid or an adult because they had an airsoft gun, not a real one. I support opening up gun ownership to more people, but I do not thing that a toy gun should look like a real gun, it just causes too many problems.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:27:35 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
which is why I was almost not going to go back on my original claim

What?

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:28:40 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
but I do not thing that a toy gun should look like a real gun, it just causes too many problems.

Its not the look that causes the problem. It the idiot holding it...(and pointing it at cops)

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:31:12 PM EDT

[#38]

Many years ago, there was a cop in a big city out east (Phiily? P'Burg?) that entered an apartment that had been locked from the outside (padlock) because a neighbor had heard someone inside.

While searching the unit (in uniform and after identifying himself) he entered a bedroom and saw soemone pointing a gun at him. He fired, and struck center mass...

of a 4-7 year old, who was "protecting" his house with a cap pistol after being locked inside by him mom while she was at work.

IIRC, stories like that were the reason we got away from the "realistic" toys of my youth, and adopted the "idiot orange" tips on everything.

Of course, even at 13 (when they started the coloring), I wondered to a friend that if someone was using a toy to committ an offense, wouldn't they just spray paint over the orange?

25 years later, idiots still find ways around the padding we, as a society, put up to protect them from themselves.

And people doubt Darwin.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:31:57 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

Alert

You are going to make a fine doctor. Too smart for your own good.

And notice with what foresight the future doctor selected his username .. if he doesn't get in to med school, he'll have to change it. If he does get in to med school, he'll have to change it.

I only thought of this because in another thread a month or so ago he was boasting of his gift of foresight or whatever.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:32:54 PM EDT

[#40]

I remember that movie with Tom Selleck - I think it was called an innocent man. The cops did a drug raid on the wrong house and there is ol' tom steppin out of the shower, he hears the JBTs bust in and walks into the hallway carrying his hairdryer. Blam - he is shot and when the cops realize they shot an innocent man, they frame him by placing a real gun in his hand and stashing cocaine at his house. He does some jailtime and I forget what happens - I cant remember if he gets out and kicks some ass or what.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:33:36 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

Reading comprehension is also key in med school:

PIERCE COUNTY - State troopers say when an 18-year-old pulled a gun on them, they did what they're trained to do: shoot back.

Your nanny-state laws would have made such a difference.

~~which is why I was almost not going to go back on my original claim that we should ban them outright. Hell, if we~~ legalized the manufacture of machine guns for civilians, ~~there probably wouldn't be a market for these things anymore.~~

NOW I AGREE WITH THAT!!!!! WOOT!!!

All I am trying to say is that a cop should not have to worry about, or deal with the guilt, of shooting a kid or an adult because they had an airsoft gun, not a real one. I support opening up gun ownership to more people, but I do not thing that a toy gun should look like a real gun, it just causes too many problems.

And I will got back to "my" quote...You CAN NOT regulate stupidity!

If people can buy something...no matter what it is, it will be misused. If you ban it, it will be made. If you "regulate" it to certain people, others will steal it.

Wouldn't it be better to get parents and adults "involved" in childrens lives, BEFORE they make stupid decisions like this 18 year old did? Banning things doesn't do ANY good. Getting involved and TEACHING kids responsible, "smart" behavior does. If more people, even if they aren't the parent, got involved in a posititive way with kids like this, they would be more "likely" to avoid getting shot by the police. You can't save everyone, but people need to get more involved with others on a positive level.

And you just want to ban.

I would suggest that you take a good "internal" look at yourself and see if those aren't really "control" issues you are dealing with, instead of well thought out logical thoughts.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:36:52 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

Alert

You are going to make a fine doctor. Too smart for your own good.

And notice with what foresight the future doctor selected his username .. if he doesn't get in to med school, he'll have to change it. If he does get in to med school, he'll have to change it.

I only thought of this because in another thread a month or so ago he was boasting of his gift of foresight or whatever.

I don't plan on being here in two years or so when I will know if I have gotten accepted into medical school or not.

now if I am still here... then I will have a problem.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:38:42 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Troopers want parents to stop buying pellet guns for their kids. Because to a cop in that life-or-death moment, they all look real.

I see nothing wrong with this. "Parents need to be more responsible" is totally reasonable, compared to "ban them, for the children".

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:43:01 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coming to a banning near you.

I don't see any problem banning toy guns that look like the real thing; you are not allowed to sell water guns that look like "the real thing", and unlike water guns, many of these pellet guns can actually cause physical damage to people and objects.

So can sling shots, Daisy BB guns, pencils, knives, forks, spoons, and etc etc etc...........

difference is that Airsoft guns are made as toys... you know, things for children to use in play with each other. I see no problem with regulating realistic airsoft guns to adults only along with actual air rifles.

Airsift guns are not made as TOYS!!!! Just like real BB guns, NOT toys.. They even put warnings on the box and manuals that there NOT toys.

then restrict them to individuals under adult supervision, just like long guns and handguns.

If you don't think there is anything wrong with allowing potentially immature children to get their hands on facsimile rifles without prior adult approval, then that is where you and I disagree.

Don't forget: Every store I've seen that carries them won't sell them to anyone under 18 without a parent present.

WTF is a MAC 12 anyway?

IIRC, a MAC 12 is just the .380 ACP version. The smallest one.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:44:30 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

which is why I was almost not going to go back on my original claim that we should ban them outright. Hell, if we legalized the manufacture of machine guns for civilians, there probably wouldn't be a market for these things anymore.

I disagree........................

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:46:08 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
but I do not thing that a toy gun should look like a real gun, it just causes too many problems.

Its not the look that causes the problem. It the idiot holding it...(and pointing it at cops)

don't even bother. DU trolls like our good friend lack common sense

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:48:54 PM EDT

[#47]

I dont know I think they are already regulated like other airguns. becouce comeone they are airguns just shoot a 6mm plastic bb instead of a steel or lead bb.
just no one enforces it much.

guys a fucking idiot to point it at a cop. Darwin gets another one.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:49:06 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

I don't plan on being here in two years or so when I will know if I have gotten accepted into medical school or not.

now if I am still here... then I will have a problem.

Then why are you here now?

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:50:20 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I don't plan on being here in two years or so when I will know if I have gotten accepted into medical school or not.

now if I am still here... then I will have a problem.

Then why are you here now?

because you guys are fun to talk to.

The reason I don't see myself being here in 2 years is that through lurking, most people with my views don't last too long here.

Posted: 1/11/2006 7:56:33 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

I don't plan on being here in two years or so when I will know if I have gotten accepted into medical school or not.

now if I am still here... then I will have a problem.

Then why are you here now?

because you guys are fun to talk to.

The reason I don't see myself being here in 2 years is that through lurking, most people with my views don't last too long here.

No, they don't last too long, because they don't want to open their eyes to logic, fact and proof; and then admit they were wrong.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Genius points Airsoft MAC copy at officers, gets a double tap - Can you spot the airsoft in the pic (Page 1 of 2)

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