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Posted: 1/11/2006 3:36:26 PM EDT
Ok some of you here have seen the post I have made reference making it after the Southern Indiana tornado of Nov. 6th. I have had all kinds of scum contractors knocking on the door etc.
Repair work is going good but they still show up.
Today I was working in my office at home and Buster the Dog who I got after the tornado just goes nuts. I look out and see a white male walking around the detached garage, knowing that the contractors were not here today I got real pissed fast.
One of my cars was in the drive, the dog is trying like hell to get outside. I see unknown white male step onto the patio like he is going to go into the garage, that was it I stepped out Ar in arms EOTech on full mag. in locked and loaded with three spares.
I told the douch bag to stop in his tracks from about 40 feet and identify himself now.
He starts telling me he from Purdue and doing a survey of the damage to old growth trees in the area from the tornado.
I tell him to produce Id place it on the ground and step back to the back of the patio aboout 30 feet and keep hands where I can see them. I retreive ID place it on the near by gas grill and dial the c phone to local pd with one hand keeping Ar trained in his direction safety off finger on the trigger.
I get a dispatcher that know me, and I tell her I have a subject that was in my opinion attempting to enter my garage and I was holding him at gun point, Car dispatched asap.
Officer arrives code 3 screwing up the rock in driveway. Thank god It is another officer I have known for 15 years. I tell him what I have and as he walks up I clear my AR, and pull the 1911 from under my sweatshirt. and lay them on the grill. kepping hands visable.
He retrives dumbasses Id and put him in back of squad car and calls in ID. He finds out that yes they are doing tree survey in the area but they need homeowner permission before entering private property.
He lets dumbass chill in the back of his squad car while we talk, he had never seen a EOTECH before, he made a point to schedule a day to go shoot my AR when the weather gets better.
AS I am picking up the AR and 1911 he gets the dumbass from the back of his car.
This is the best part, He proceeded to give one of the best dressing down of this dumbass I have ever seen. He even told the puke that had I shot him I was protecting my property.
Dumbass was complaining that I pulled a gun on him, he told him just WTF do you expect you came onto his property, without notice and were going to area you should not be.
It ended up with the officer talking dumbass back to the head of the survey team with instructions to leave his patrol area.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:39:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 3:44:37 PM EDT by XDBACKUPGUN]
IBTBSFIR......IB the BS flag is raised.


Bet his undies are quite messy!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:42:54 PM EDT
lol just for that
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:49:30 PM EDT

I think you did fine.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:55:06 PM EDT
Dumbass spent a lot of time bitching on how I pulled a gun on him, and pointed a GUN at him.
I would have taken the dog out there but trying to control the dog, not knowing how the dog would react after seeing him with the contractors. To hell with the dog worry about the owner.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:55:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 4:00:25 PM EDT by geerhed]
IBTJBTB (JBT Bashers)

Oh, wait.

I bet that kid was pissed!

Especially his shorts!

Stupid pointy-head academics...here's a slap of Reality for you.
ETA: The cop's lecture went in one ear and out the other.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:55:56 PM EDT
do you draw down on jehovah's witnesses and girl scouts selling cookies as well?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:57:34 PM EDT
Nice drawdown story.

But I must ask: Did you really pick a screen name based on something from Disney's "Little Mermaid" movie?

(I know this because I have a 5 year old, of course)
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:58:40 PM EDT
been in a sim. situation, you did good
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:00:29 PM EDT
No thats what the dog is for.
He's large some sort of lab and possible coon hound mix. When is alarmed or pissed the hair on his back stands up like a razorback. It looks pretty cool as there is no question if the dog is pissed.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:00:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:


But I must ask: Did you really pick a screen name based on something from Disney's "Little Mermaid" movie?

(I know this because I have a 5 year old, of course)



Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:03:07 PM EDT
Hey Gonzo
That nickname was given to me 30years ago in HS and I just keep using it.
Most of the regs. on other forums just cal me snarf
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:04:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:

He starts telling me he from Purdue and doing a survey of the damage to old growth trees in the area from the tornado.



Hey, i have a wierd question. did he have a little PDA with him?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:04:43 PM EDT
snarfbatt, you're in a world of hurt. Since Kelo you don't really OWN your property, you're just keeping it up until they want it for a stripmall. So you couldn't be protecting YOUR property. Lawyer up.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:12:12 PM EDT
Well '5060 I didn't let him reach into his pockets to find out. I am a former LEO so control of such situations goes back to training.
Callgood I already have a good Lawyer. I agree after the SCOTUS or is that SCROUTOM we don't own any more. But in the area I live in it is still considered very bad to violate personal property.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:15:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:
Well '5060 I didn't let him reach into his pockets to find out. I am a former LEO so control of such situations goes back to training.
Callgood I already have a good Lawyer. I agree after the SCOTUS or is that SCROUTOM we don't own any more. But in the area I live in it is still considered very bad to violate personal property.



nah, its ok, it would have been already in his hand if he had one. Im from purdue and helped develop a information system for that project. I thought it would have been humorus if somthing i created was in your drawdown story. Good story, and i LOVE Indiana firearms laws

P.S. ill have to check and see who it was. I have a sneaking suspision it was someone from the columbus campus.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:17:36 PM EDT
I'll tag.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:18:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Nice drawdown story.

But I must ask: Did you really pick a screen name based on something from Disney's "Little Mermaid" movie?

(I know this because I have a 5 year old, of course)



Like you should be talking. LOL
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:19:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:
Hey Gonzo
That nickname was given to me 30years ago in HS and I just keep using it.
Most of the regs. on other forums just cal me snarf




Ah, gotcha. I hope you know I called you on it as an "all in good fun thing."

Frankly, I'm annoyed that my Disney consumption has been so high since having a child. I am, frankly, embarassed to myself know the word "snarfblatt"
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:22:16 PM EDT
x5060 do you think someone will tell everyone that they were a dumbass?
I have had these kind of pukes around before in other places I lived .
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:23:25 PM EDT
x5060 do you think someone will tell everyone that they were a dumbass?
I have had these kind of pukes around before in other places I lived . And they did not follow instructions?
Would that not get them kicked from the grant the are working under?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:28:22 PM EDT
Gonzo I am snarfbatt not snarfblatt
I think after research that one of the HS buddies had a little brother or sister that watched thundercats and that is where the name came from.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:28:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:
Dumbass was complaining that I pulled a gun on him, he told him just WTF do you expect you came onto his property, without notice and were going to area you should not be.
It ended up with the officer talking dumbass back to the head of the survey team with instructions to leave his patrol area.



Disaster or no disaster, in MA, if I did what you did, I'd be the one getting arrested.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:29:17 PM EDT
I don't necessarily agree on how you drew down on him automatically. I've always been taught never to draw down on someone unless your life is in peril, and by the description of the situation, a nerdy science major with a pen and pad doesn't sound that threatening.

I would have, however, confronted him - obviously. But, going from "hey, there's someone on my property" to "BREATH TOO HARD AND YOU GET A 62GR KNUCKLESANDWICH" is a bit too extreme. I don't know if you were in the clear legally to do so - but I will wouldn't have drawn down unless he presented a clear danger to me or someone else.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:31:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By geerhed:
IBTJBTB (JBT Bashers)

Oh, wait.

I bet that kid was pissed!

Especially his shorts!

Stupid pointy-head academics...here's a slap of Reality for you.
ETA: The cop's lecture went in one ear and out the other.



We have a saying in MA: "You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can't tell him anything."

We also say: "Dawn breaks over Marblehead". I hope the stupidity of his actions dawned on THAT marblehead....
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:35:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 4:36:36 PM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:37:51 PM EDT
Dont you think 4 full loaded mags was a bit much, plus your sidearm.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:42:45 PM EDT
Do you have x-ray vision?
Most dirtball don't walk with their firearm of choice in hand.
To confront someone in what is "bedroom community" is different then a normal area. I work from home and keep inventory in my garage in addition to my home.
The normal perp. will come into this area without the fear of a homeowner. Most of them are from the city 5 miles away and they are armed and Meth. heads.
Did the locals think I was wrong, no.
I will admitt that many of the officers know me and my training, I am still listed as a combat medic for the area.
Would I have popped him if I had reason, my training as a LEO and combat medic says yes.
Would I have really I don't know I have been close but never have had to pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:46:31 PM EDT
Nice job snarf. Pansey will think twice before he tries to limpwrist someone else to death.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:47:09 PM EDT
I'm not being a smart-ass; I'm just asking a question. Is a trespass incident reason enough to draw your weapon?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:48:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 4:50:38 PM EDT by x5060]

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:
x5060 do you think someone will tell everyone that they were a dumbass?
I have had these kind of pukes around before in other places I lived . And they did not follow instructions?
Would that not get them kicked from the grant the are working under?



actually, if its who i think it was.... yes.



Dont you think 4 full loaded mags was a bit much, plus your sidearm.



There could have been 5-40 ninjas behind the neighbors fence. you knever know
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:49:30 PM EDT
I bet he won't trespass on your property again. You did very well.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:52:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Szurgot:
Dont you think 4 full loaded mags was a bit much, plus your sidearm.



Are you for real? In most situations, more is better. This is one of them.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:53:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Szurgot:
Dont you think 4 full loaded mags was a bit much, plus your sidearm.




No it is perfectly sane.

I should qualify this by saying the following.
I carry a Sig P220 .45ACP and 2 spare mags and a SA XD 9MM Subcompact with 2 spare mags at all times.
Sometimes I carry a .357mag revolver in an ankle holster as well.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:53:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
do you draw down on jehovah's witnesses and girl scouts selling cookies as well?



I was wondering the same. Gun pointed at him, off safety, finger on trigger
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:54:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:56:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:
No it is perfectly sane.

I should qualify this by saying the following.
I carry a Sig P220 .45ACP and 2 spare mags and a SA XD 9MM Subcompact with 2 spare mags at all times.
Sometimes I carry a .357mag revolver in an ankle holster as well.


How often do you point them at people who have not harmed or threatened to harm you?



Have never pointed any gun at a human, Have drawn down and killed 2 dogs.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:59:34 PM EDT
How long from the 911 call to arrival of the deputy?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:00:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Midnight-Sniper:
I'm not being a smart-ass; I'm just asking a question. Is a trespass incident reason enough to draw your weapon?


With the meth heads around here, (IMHO)yup.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:01:31 PM EDT
I do not think four loaded mag.s was to much.
I spent to much time cruising my ass around in a squad car with a .357 or a .45 with regs saying we could only carry a only so many rounds.
I went out with what I thought was needed, by the way the dog was acting there could have ben more. A little covered item from this area is that looters have cased the area and they show up with pick ups and cleanout homes and garages. Nobody home no problem.
I went out with the idea that I would confront 4 or more based on the reports from the area.
Were they armed some have been some not, I did not know.
You wish to judge from you secure location , ok flame away I know what has happened here where homes are being rebuilt and the dirtballs show up and steal everything. They have guns the contractors don't
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:05:30 PM EDT
Meth heads the locals bust about over 10 labs a week. We have some of the best haz mat trained people just from experiance
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:12:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 5:15:20 PM EDT by cmm]
I really think it's questionable whether you were justified in presenting a weapon under the circumstances. You were not in immediate danger. If you suspect foul play, you should have called 911. You could have your weapon at the ready but going out to confront the "bad guy" is a mistake. Now if he forcibly entered your house, I'd say you would be justified in drawing your weapon. But he was outside, you were inside, and you were not in immediate danger of any kind. If I was the cop, I would have put YOU in the squad car, not the other guy, and I would have booked you, not just let you think about it in the back seat of the patrol car. I mean no disrespect here, I just think you had a serious lapse in your judgement.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:15:55 PM EDT
By stating what happened to you here, you've opened yourself up for kudos-and criticism.

The old saying "walk a mile in my shoes" comes to mind. Only you knows what happened and your thought process during the situation. I'd be a little more careful with the trigger finger...but that's just me. You're the one that has to answer for success or failure in every situation.

Sounds to me like:

You accomplished determining who he really was, and there's one less fella that'll come poking around your place without announcing himself.

HH
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:17:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmm:
I really think it's questionable whether you were justified in presenting a weapon under the circumstances. You were not in immediate danger. If you suspect foul play, you should have called 911. You could have your weapon at the ready but going out to confront the "bad guy" is a mistake. Now if he forcibly entered your house, I'd say you would be justified in drawing your weapon. But he was outside, you were inside, and you were not in immediate danger of any kind. If I was the cop, I would have put YOU in the squad car, not the other guy, and I would have booked you, not just let you think about it in the back seat of the patrol car. I mean no disrespect here, I just think you had a serious lapse in your judgement.



Wow, that's a pretty good analysis from your vantage point in ARIZONA.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:23:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:
I do not think four loaded mag.s was to much.
I spent to much time cruising my ass around in a squad car with a .357 or a .45 with regs saying we could only carry a only so many rounds.



You certainly don't have to explain to us why you carried four mags. As the old saying goes: "You can only have too much ammo if you're swimming or on fire."
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:23:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:

Originally Posted By Szurgot:
Dont you think 4 full loaded mags was a bit much, plus your sidearm.




No it is perfectly sane.

I should qualify this by saying the following.
I carry a Sig P220 .45ACP and 2 spare mags and a SA XD 9MM Subcompact with 2 spare mags at all times.
Sometimes I carry a .357mag revolver in an ankle holster as well.




While I would agree that it is better to be prepared than not, I dont think every incident requires going for a full combat load (or just short of). Especially for one guy with a PDA, no map, and poor judgement.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:30:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By cmm:
I really think it's questionable whether you were justified in presenting a weapon under the circumstances. You were not in immediate danger. If you suspect foul play, you should have called 911. You could have your weapon at the ready but going out to confront the "bad guy" is a mistake. Now if he forcibly entered your house, I'd say you would be justified in drawing your weapon. But he was outside, you were inside, and you were not in immediate danger of any kind. If I was the cop, I would have put YOU in the squad car, not the other guy, and I would have booked you, not just let you think about it in the back seat of the patrol car. I mean no disrespect here, I just think you had a serious lapse in your judgement.



Wow, that's a pretty good analysis from your vantage point in ARIZONA.



Based on his presentation of the "facts" he had absolutely no justification for escalating the situation. Don't get me wrong, I have a CCW and advocate APPROPRIATE utilization of deadly force. This situation (as the original poster presented it) just did not warrant the kind of action he took. It was a disproportionate response to a conceived threat.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:32:48 PM EDT
As I have posted, did I know he had a PDA, no. He had a jacket on. What can you carry under your jacket?
With the incidents in the area so I walk out like a sheeple?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:34:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmm:
I really think it's questionable whether you were justified in presenting a weapon under the circumstances. You were not in immediate danger. If you suspect foul play, you should have called 911. You could have your weapon at the ready but going out to confront the "bad guy" is a mistake. Now if he forcibly entered your house, I'd say you would be justified in drawing your weapon. But he was outside, you were inside, and you were not in immediate danger of any kind. If I was the cop, I would have put YOU in the squad car, not the other guy, and I would have booked you, not just let you think about it in the back seat of the patrol car. I mean no disrespect here, I just think you had a serious lapse in your judgement.



Hate to do it, but I must agree. You took it too far.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:34:55 PM EDT
In a way, I agree. However, the officer in the story agreed with the homeowner.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:44:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:
In a way, I agree. However, the officer in the story agreed with the homeowner.



LEO's, being human, are as culpable as anyone. Does the fact that the officer agreed with the homeowner justify the act? I don't think so. The fact that it's someone he knew for 15 years just makes it smell really bad since that makes the officer just as wrong in my opinion--he was predisposed to take sides whether it was right or wrong. The officer exercised poor judgement and lost his objectivity in the situation. Sorry guys, I have to go against "popular" opinion here which is kinda troubling to me. If the majority of gun owners agree with the home owners action, then we're giving the gun grabbers more ammunition against us.
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