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Posted: 1/11/2006 1:17:16 PM EDT
I have applied for a position with a company in my direct line of work in the Kansas City area that I am well qualified for.

I received a letter in the mail stating that I will be contacted for an interview but accompanying this was a form that I am to fill out that I feel is wrong. I say my qualifications are enough and that my color, "white" cause I know your all wondering , should not matter.

I say screw it and trash the form, it says that they will note my color when they meet me, My wife say's fill it out and mail it back.

What would you...my fellow brothers and sisters in arms do?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:19:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 1:21:28 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
"voluntary" - don't bother if you don't feel like it.


Btw - they most likely don't care either, but are collecting the info to be able to prove that they are complying with AA rules if anyone asks them.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:21:14 PM EDT
Don't fill it out until after the interview....after that, they'll know what color you are anyway....
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:21:31 PM EDT
I never fill those things out, as what they are doing is keeping records for "affirmative" action statistics, which can only mean bad news for whitey.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:21:41 PM EDT
Just write "multi-cultural" on it.
I've done that in past and never got flak for it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:28:38 PM EDT
If the race thing did not matter to them they would not ask
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:33:20 PM EDT
I've had to fill out these forms before. If a blank is available, which does not appear on this particular form, I write, "Human race". Works for me. Of course, I am self-employed.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:33:41 PM EDT
Affirmative Action.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:45:50 PM EDT
I just changed jobs and had to do the whole application and tons of paperwork thing. There were some "voluntary" forms in there that I was "encouraged" to fill out.

It would possibly have been an issue if I had not. Since Texas is an at-will employer, it was in my best interest to STFU and fill it out.

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:50:29 PM EDT
I thought this was going to be about female skin tones.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:51:44 PM EDT
Mine does.

I'm white.

When my skin is red (sunburned) Its matters to me.

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:03:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
I thought this was going to be about female skin tones.



+1 & I had my "pie is pie" comment all ready.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:11:04 PM EDT
The only time skin color is an issue to me is when it comes to the way I prefer my wimminz. Beyond personal preference like that or giving a physical description for a police report, I see no need for race to come into anything.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:13:18 PM EDT
Does skin color matter to you?


Only if they are blue, jeez, I really hate blue people!!


Go ahead and fill it out, somebody's cousin will get the job anyway!!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:34:19 PM EDT
I dare you to check male and then pencil in "For Now".
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:39:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
I dare you to check male and then pencil in "For Now".



Check white and pencil in "For Now"
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:43:39 PM EDT
What is the difference between a Vietnam Era veteran and a regular veteran?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:47:36 PM EDT
6. Celto-Germanic

That what I put on my census.

All a bunch of crap, especially since there are only three "races" and not one of them is listed.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:50:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Billybob2002:
What is the difference between a Vietnam Era veteran and a regular veteran?



The company gets certain privliges when dealing with the federal government based on the percentage of employees that fall into certain groups. The difference is about as much as between a hispanic, an asian, and a native american.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:52:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RiffRandall:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
I thought this was going to be about female skin tones.



+1 & I had my "pie is pie" comment all ready.



+2
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:55:45 PM EDT
Color matters to me. If I turn all blue...and then pasty white, well, you know....
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:01:08 PM EDT
Another example of the government sticking it's stinking nose where it doesn't belong.


You should put down half black half japanese and see what they say when you come in.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:02:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
The only time skin color is an issue to me is when it comes to the way I prefer my wimminz. Beyond personal preference like that or giving a physical description for a police report, I see no need for race to come into anything.



I agree.

I prefer it to be pink in the middle.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:05:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
I thought this was going to be about female skin tones.



+1...I'm not one who likes the overly tanned look...
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:22:27 PM EDT
It only bothers me when they are handing out jobs or special privileges based on it...

Or when I watch TV and it seems fine to trash any ethnic group as long as you are "ethnic" yourself, but a mortal sin to even imply negativity if you are white...
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:38:35 PM EDT
I don't answer those things because it will only be used in a "study" that will "prove" that the workplace is racist, thereby hurting my chances of either getting a job or being promoted in the future.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:01:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjm1:
I never fill those things out, as what they are doing is keeping records for "affirmative" action statistics, which can only mean bad news for whitey.



dont bother checking your gender as affirmative action is primarily designed with advancing the female minority in the workplace. people tend to overlook that and think its a white/black thing.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:20:10 PM EDT
If your race is a secret, then don't tell them.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:24:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 4:25:00 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By lu380:
I don't answer those things because it will only be used in a "study" that will "prove" that the workplace is racist, thereby hurting my chances of either getting a job or being promoted in the future.




Actually, companies NEED to collect this kind of information so that they can "prove" that they are in compliance with AA, if asked to do so to the .gov.

AA doesn't mean that you have to actually hire underrepresented classes, but it does mean that you have to make a good-faith effort to advertise the position to underrepresented classes, and interview them (if you can find qualified ones).

Thus, if a particular company in New Orleans, for example, has only white male employees, it is really valuable for them to be able to document (through stuff like this) that they in fact DID interview a bunch of black people and women, but were unable to find anyone as qualified as the white males.

(but, by that logic, if you ARE a white male, you might as well not fill it out - since it wouldn't help the company anyway.)
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:31:05 PM EDT
If I was filling that out, I'd select 'Bi-Cultural' and fill in "Klingon" and "Vulcan".

Or "American" and "Spartan".

Or maybe "Jewish" and "Texan".

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:34:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 4:35:24 PM EDT by lu380]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By lu380:
I don't answer those things because it will only be used in a "study" that will "prove" that the workplace is racist, thereby hurting my chances of either getting a job or being promoted in the future.




Actually, companies NEED to collect this kind of information so that they can "prove" that they are in compliance with AA, if asked to do so to the .gov.

AA doesn't mean that you have to actually hire underrepresented classes, but it does mean that you have to make a good-faith effort to advertise the position to underrepresented classes, and interview them (if you can find qualified ones).

Thus, if a particular company in New Orleans, for example, has only white male employees, it is really valuable for them to be able to document (through stuff like this) that they in fact DID interview a bunch of black people and women, but were unable to find anyone as qualified as the white males.

(but, by that logic, if you ARE a white male, you might as well not fill it out - since it wouldn't help the company anyway.)



So then it seems the smart thing to do is for white applicants to claim that they are at least partially black. This would "stack" the numbers and provide proof of fair hiring practices.

Don't get me wrong, I AM NOT someone who would advocate racial or gender discrimination - I don't care who you are, if you can make me money, I will hire you (if I were in a position to do the hiring.) I work for a university, and I have seen Affirmative Action in action, probably to a much more extreme degree than most of you guys here.

I personally feel that I am not in a good position for promotion simply because I'm a white male. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this does not make me a racist, ranting lunatic. I'm far from it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:41:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 4:42:32 PM EDT by PromptCritical]

Originally Posted By MurdockTheCrazy:
If I was filling that out, I'd select 'Bi-Cultural' and fill in "Klingon" and "Vulcan".

Or "American" and "Spartan".

Or maybe "Jewish" and "Texan".




How about simply "human" and "american". They will probably cross them out, check "white" before they even see you, and finish the interview with "Don't call us, we'll call you."

I wonder how long it will take before white males are eligible for affirmative action. Hell, I think I'll go apply for a job in "tha hood". If they don't hire me, I'll sue for discrimination. Turnabout is fair play, right?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:41:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By lu380:
I don't answer those things because it will only be used in a "study" that will "prove" that the workplace is racist, thereby hurting my chances of either getting a job or being promoted in the future.




Actually, companies NEED to collect this kind of information so that they can "prove" that they are in compliance with AA, if asked to do so to the .gov.

AA doesn't mean that you have to actually hire underrepresented classes, but it does mean that you have to make a good-faith effort to advertise the position to underrepresented classes, and interview them (if you can find qualified ones).

Thus, if a particular company in New Orleans, for example, has only white male employees, it is really valuable for them to be able to document (through stuff like this) that they in fact DID interview a bunch of black people and women, but were unable to find anyone as qualified as the white males.

(but, by that logic, if you ARE a white male, you might as well not fill it out - since it wouldn't help the company anyway.)



So then it seems the smart thing to do is for white applicants to claim that they are at least partially black. This would "stack" the numbers and provide proof of fair hiring practices.

Don't get me wrong, I AM NOT someone who would advocate racial or gender discrimination - I don't care who you are, if you can make me money, I will hire you (if I were in a position to do the hiring.) I work for a university, and I have seen Affirmative Action in action, probably to a much more extreme degree than most of you guys here.

I personally feel that I am not in a good position for promotion simply because I'm a white male. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this does not make me a racist, ranting lunatic. I'm far from it.




If I KNEW that the form was not going to be seen by the people interviewing me, or any potential bosses (who might be pissed about it), I would definetely choose "black" or "female" (or both) on a form like that, just to help get a potential employer off the hook from the AA requirements. But I don't think I would risk it if the interviewer or boss might see it, since it could be misunderstood.

I agree with you that universities are some of the worst offenders, when it comes to abusing the intent of Affirmative Action. My guess is that you have seen (like I have) cases of discimination that have nothing to do with affirmative action, since AA does not allow for the hiring of less qualified people, but that is definintely something that happens in both universitites and local government/public services.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:50:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 4:51:01 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:54:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
It's all BS anyway so put down that your are a disabled, mixed race, bi-sexual lesbian, vegetarian...

That should get you maximum AA points.

ANdy



Not in this specific case.

Unless they are LYING on the form, putting that down will not get him any "points" - since they claim this is for recordkeeping, not as part of the selection process.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:28:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Billybob2002:
What is the difference between a Vietnam Era veteran and a regular veteran?



There is a specific law about Vietnam era veterans. During and for a while after the war many Vietnam vets, and vets in general were discriminated against.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:30:22 PM EDT
Don't the feds require all businesses to keep track of this information? Why jump all over a company for just following the law?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:39:39 PM EDT


winter - I select "biege"

summer - usually "taupe"


Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:41:41 PM EDT
write in 'european-american'
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:45:00 PM EDT
I once put Half Elf where it asked for race.

YEah I am a D&D nerd from the 80's
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:50:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 7:51:41 PM EDT by Ardenner]
I've studied the subject to some degree in my sociology classes (one of my minors). The conclusion of most researchers is that color matters to almost everyone. Even minorities are "racists." Here is an example of a response from your average American.

Would you mind working with someone of a different race: no
Would you mind if someone of a different race moved into your neighborhood: no
Would you mind if someone of a different race moved next door: no
Would you mind if your sibling had a friend of a different race: no
Would you mind if your sibling dated someone of a different race: maybe
Would you mind if your sibling married someone of a different race: probably

So as you can see, how people feel about race changes as the level of contact with outsiders increases.

Personally, I would be uncomfortable with my sister dating members of certain races, especially those that have a lot of what I consider misogynistic values (Muslim, African, African-American, some Latin, etc). However, I have plenty of friends that are Latino (I speak ok Spanish myself, but I am white), Asian, middles eastern, and Black. So yes, color does matter to me.


Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:50:38 PM EDT


DIVERSITY DEPARTMENT?


Sounds like a basis for a lawsuit right there.

I was always taught that merit was the ONLY thing you were suppose to look at...anything other than that was racism.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:52:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

DIVERSITY DEPARTMENT?


Sounds like a basis for a lawsuit right there.

I was always taught that merit was the ONLY thing you were suppose to look at...anything other than that was racism.

1964 Civil Rights Act changed that.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:54:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
"voluntary" - don't bother if you don't feel like it.


Btw - they most likely don't care either, but are collecting the info to be able to prove that they are complying with AA rules if anyone asks them.



The person conducting the interview or doing the hiring should never see that form. Normally those go to HR, get stuck in a folder, and once a year gets mailed to some government agency.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:55:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:

Originally Posted By lippo:

DIVERSITY DEPARTMENT?


Sounds like a basis for a lawsuit right there.

I was always taught that merit was the ONLY thing you were suppose to look at...anything other than that was racism.

1964 Civil Rights Act changed that.




And the Affirmative Action EO
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:13:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:


[SNIP]

If I KNEW that the form was not going to be seen by the people interviewing me, or any potential bosses (who might be pissed about it), I would definetely choose "black" or "female" (or both) on a form like that, just to help get a potential employer off the hook from the AA requirements. But I don't think I would risk it if the interviewer or boss might see it, since it could be misunderstood.

I agree with you that universities are some of the worst offenders, when it comes to abusing the intent of Affirmative Action. My guess is that you have seen (like I have) cases of discimination that have nothing to do with affirmative action, since AA does not allow for the hiring of less qualified people, but that is definintely something that happens in both universitites and local government/public services.



If I tell someone that I'm part black, who are they to question me? If I say I'm black, I'm black. How can they prove otherwise?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:32:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:


[SNIP]

If I KNEW that the form was not going to be seen by the people interviewing me, or any potential bosses (who might be pissed about it), I would definetely choose "black" or "female" (or both) on a form like that, just to help get a potential employer off the hook from the AA requirements. But I don't think I would risk it if the interviewer or boss might see it, since it could be misunderstood.

I agree with you that universities are some of the worst offenders, when it comes to abusing the intent of Affirmative Action. My guess is that you have seen (like I have) cases of discimination that have nothing to do with affirmative action, since AA does not allow for the hiring of less qualified people, but that is definintely something that happens in both universitites and local government/public services.



If I tell someone that I'm part black, who are they to question me? If I say I'm black, I'm black. How can they prove otherwise?



Exactly.

What do they want, a picture of your African-american grandmother, on your father's side? I believe you can get scholarships for native americans if you are 1/16 native american in some states. How "black" does someone have to be to qualify for the "African-American" label?

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:35:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 2:36:30 PM EDT by rwinn625]

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
I thought this was going to be about female skin tones.



Once you go.... well you know the rest, I just haven't had the chance to see for myself Do you think Halle Berry likes AR-15s?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:43:51 PM EDT
[Only if they are blue, jeez, I really hate blue people!!
/quote]

What this is an insult to all ofthe Celts here...we have an ethnic heritage to paint pourselves blue before we go into battle and slay the hordes of civilazition!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:56:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Color matters to me. If I turn all blue...and then pasty white, well, you know....




Being a native CT boy, can I have your guns if'n ya do ?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:57:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheWind:
[Only if they are blue, jeez, I really hate blue people!!
/quote]

What this is an insult to all ofthe Celts here...we have an ethnic heritage to paint pourselves blue before we go into battle and slay the hordes of civilazition!



I thought those were Picts, not Celts?


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