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Posted: 1/11/2006 12:52:38 PM EDT
I understand that street racing is a crime, but manslaughter is bullshit. I can understand if the vette driver bumped him or something but that's not the case.

Street race

Corvette driver held after fatal street race

Lindsey Collom
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 10, 2006 08:09 PM

A motorcyclist was killed Tuesday in Chandler during a drag race with the driver of a Corvette later arrested on suspicion of manslaughter, authorities said.

Police said the motorcyclist and driver of the Corvette were speeding south on Arizona Avenue near Elliot Road about 3:30 p.m., the motorcycle making headway. Police said it sprinted ahead of the Corvette and struck a vehicle that was turning left onto Palomino Drive.

The motorcyclist caught fire in the collision and was flown to an unknown hospital, where he was pronounced dead, Detective Livi Kacic said. An autopsy will determine if the fire, collision or both caused his death, she added. advertisement




Police on Tuesday night were still trying to determine the motorcyclist's identity.

Chandler police arrested the driver of the Corvette, 36-year-old Norman Smith of Gilbert, when he returned to the scene of the accident. He was booked into a Maricopa County jail on suspicion of manslaughter and endangerment.



Reach the reporter at lindsey.collom@arizonarepublic.com or (602) 444-8557
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:01:18 PM EDT
Two people illegally racing are accomplices in a crime.
In some states, if your partner dies during commission of the crime, you're considered responsbile for his death.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:02:09 PM EDT
That's just stupid. The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:17:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Two people illegally racing are accomplices in a crime.
In some states, if your partner dies during commission of the crime, you're considered responsbile for his death.



I think that is wrong. I think those are two separate crimes. The corvette driver did not cause the death of the motorcycle driver - that was all the motorcycle driver's fault. But that's just my opinion and now law...
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:19:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 1:20:50 PM EDT by Desert_Cowboy]

Originally Posted By Alien:
That's just stupid. The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.



Agreed, nobody made that motorcyclist race but his own stupidity.

ETA: [sarcasm]Why dont they pin manslaughter on the car driver that motorcyclist hit while their at it. You know, if he didnt make that left turn, it would of never happened.......[/sarcasm]
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:23:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Two people illegally racing are accomplices in a crime.
In some states, if your partner dies during commission of the crime, you're considered responsbile for his death.



+1

No problem here. The Corvette driver is partly culpable, in my opinion.

Had he not agreed to race with the other guy (and break the law by doing so), the other guy woudl not have died. Thus, there other guys death is partially the result of this guy's behavior.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:25:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lennster:
Chandler police arrested the driver of the Corvette, 36-year-old Norman Smith of Gilbert, when he returned to the scene of the accident. He was booked into a Maricopa County jail on suspicion of manslaughter and endangerment.


Never, NEVER, return to the scene of a "crime"
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:25:58 PM EDT
Well that sucks
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:31:47 PM EDT
That is BS!

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:33:57 PM EDT
So now we're responsible for the actions of others? Nice liberal attitude. Did they even know each other?z

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:36:25 PM EDT
BULL SHIT

The guy on the motorcycle is responsible for HIS OWN ACTIONS. HE chose to race. He didn't have to. If the corvete guy bumped him then yes he should be held accountable. Otherwise, give him whatever the ticket is for racing.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:38:49 PM EDT
Only a full blown liberal can think the the driver of the Corvette should be charged with manslaughter becasue the dumb fuck on the motorcycle wrecked.

It reminds of a situation a few years back here in AZ where 2 people were drag racing and some dumb fucking pizza delivery driver pulled right in front of them and got hit and died. While the driver that hit him should have been punished for drag racing, it doesn't change the fact that the pizza delivery driver pulled right the fuck out in front of them. Shit, without even drag racing I've had people pull right the fuck out in front of me and I've barely missed them. If I hit one and kill them is it still my fault even if I'm not speeding?

Being dumb in this country is always someone elses fault.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:46:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:
...
It reminds of a situation a few years back here in AZ where 2 people were drag racing and some dumb fucking pizza delivery driver pulled right in front of them and got hit and died. While the driver that hit him should have been punished for drag racing, it doesn't change the fact that the pizza delivery driver pulled right the fuck out in front of them....



If you are speeding, that makes it a lot harder for anyone who wants to pull out into the street to be sure it's safe. Your actions create a situation in which precautions that would normally be sufficient are not. That's probably why the racer got charged.


Shit, without even drag racing I've had people pull right the fuck out in front of me and I've barely missed them. If I hit one and kill them is it still my fault even if I'm not speeding?...


Probably not your fault if you are obeying all traffic laws. Once you start disregarding those laws, you open yourself up to a world of shit if something goes wrong.

Racetracks are for racing. Streets are for driving legally and carefully.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:47:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Two people illegally racing are accomplices in a crime.
In some states, if your partner dies during commission of the crime, you're considered responsbile for his death.



+1

No problem here. The Corvette driver is partly culpable, in my opinion.

Had he not agreed to race with the other guy (and break the law by doing so), the other guy woudl not have died. Thus, there other guys death is partially the result of this guy's behavior.



So the guy on the motorcycle drove like a maniac BECAUSE of the corvette driver? How do you know the biker would not have driven like a maniac on his own (someone willing to drive like that in the presence of a corvette is likely to do that on his own sometimes IMO)? And exactly how did the vette driver force the biker to race?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:52:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 1:54:43 PM EDT by 89grand]
Look I'm not defending street racing, in fact I had 2 dumb fucking idiots in ricer cars trying to race each other on the 202 freeway Sunday night and they were pissing me the fuck off by slowing down in front of me to get even with each other and stuff, it was dangerous. I was going to call the cops, but I didn't get their license plate numbers.

But trying to charge the Corvette driver because of the idiotic actions of the motorcycle driver that ultimately lead to his own death is:

BULLSHIT!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:12:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Alien:
... The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.


And his actions were participating in a crime that resulted in the accidental death of another person.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:21:08 PM EDT
Yell "light 'em up" and go to jail.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:29:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 2:31:01 PM EDT by 89grand]

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By Alien:
... The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.


And his actions were participating in a crime that resulted in the accidental death of another person.





What if I took off pretty quick from a stop light for whatever reason and some dumb fuck like the one on the motorcycle thought I was trying to race them and they crashed and died? Is that still my fault?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:33:57 PM EDT
Speeding is a crime? I thought it was a traffic law "violation". Police are the judge and jury in many cases. There is definately a double standard when it come to who can speed and get away with and who can't. How about the saying that, two wrongs don't make a right? A cop breaks the law when he chases you down speeding............. soap box put away... The corvette driver should walk.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:51:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Desert_Cowboy:

Originally Posted By Alien:
That's just stupid. The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.



Agreed, nobody made that motorcyclist race but his own stupidity.

ETA: [sarcasm]Why dont they pin manslaughter on the car driver that motorcyclist hit while their at it. You know, if he didnt make that left turn, it would of never happened.......[/sarcasm]



Because the driver of the car wasn't breaking any laws.

sheer genius...
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:51:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By Alien:
... The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.


And his actions were participating in a crime that resulted in the accidental death of another person.



smiley.onegreatguy.net/bsflag.gif

What if I took off pretty quick from a stop light for whatever reason and some dumb fuck like the one on the motorcycle thought I was trying to race them and they crashed and died? Is that still my fault?



What if sheep were armed with laser guided missles?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:54:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Alien:
That's just stupid. The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.



OK, let us look at what his actions were....
1. He was engaged in an illegal activity.
2. Some one died as a result of that illegal activity.

Sounds like manslaughter in the commission of a crime to me.......
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:00:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 3:03:26 PM EDT by 89grand]
The Corvette driver is not at fault. Being dumb and dying because of it, like the motorcycle driver, is HIS fault. No one elses. If the Corvette driver actually made some contact with the motorcycle that might have made it crash,then I'd say yes, he is partially to blaim, but he didn't.

Again I ask from the people that think it's the Corvette drivers fault:

If I was at a stop light and next to me was a motorcycle rider and the light turns green and I take off pretty fast so the motorcycle rider wants to beat me and takes off even faster, then wrecks and died is that my fault? Did I somehow force him to take off faster than me and crash?

If you say yes...I say you're a flaming liberal.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:00:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By 89grand:

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By Alien:
... The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.


And his actions were participating in a crime that resulted in the accidental death of another person.



smiley.onegreatguy.net/bsflag.gif

What if I took off pretty quick from a stop light for whatever reason and some dumb fuck like the one on the motorcycle thought I was trying to race them and they crashed and died? Is that still my fault?



What if sheep were armed with laser guided missles?



Nice dodge of the question.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:03:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PsyWarrior:

Originally Posted By Alien:
That's just stupid. The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.



OK, let us look at what his actions were....
1. He was engaged in an illegal activity.
2. Some one died as a result of that illegal activity.

Sounds like manslaughter in the commission of a crime to me.......



How in the hell do people come to that conclusion?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:05:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:

Originally Posted By PsyWarrior:

Originally Posted By Alien:
That's just stupid. The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.



OK, let us look at what his actions were....
1. He was engaged in an illegal activity.
2. Some one died as a result of that illegal activity.

Sounds like manslaughter in the commission of a crime to me.......



How in the hell do people come to that conclusion?



Liberals can always find ways to blaim someone else. It a certain "gift" they all seem to have.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:05:49 PM EDT

What if I took off pretty quick from a stop light for whatever reason and some dumb fuck like the one on the motorcycle thought I was trying to race them and they crashed and died? Is that still my fault?


No, as you were NOT committing a crime. However, if you "Took off fast" and exceeded the speedlimit by 50+ MPH with the intent to race, then you were both committing a crime.

Same as the Bank Robber who got popped in FL. His 'accomplice' (girlfriend, etc.) can now be charged with Manslaughter (possibly Murder, depending on FL law) in his death. He was killed (legally, I might add) by the police in the commission of a crime. As she was aiding in the commission of the crime, she is partially responsible for his death.

AFARR
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:08:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:
The Corvette driver is not at fault. Being dumb and dying because of it, like the motorcycle driver, is HIS fault. No one elses. If the Corvette driver actually made some contact with the motorcycle that might have made it crash,then I'd say yes, he is partially to blaim, but he didn't.

Again I ask from the people that think it's the Corvette drivers fault:

If I was at a stop light and next to me was a motorcycle rider and the light turns green and I take off pretty fast so the motorcycle rider wants to beat me and takes off even faster, then wrecks and died is that my fault? Did I somehow force him to take off faster than me and crash?

If you say yes...I say you're a flaming liberal.



What we must find out is was it an actual race or a "jack rabbit start" situation. If a jack rabbit, then the vette holds no liability in the death. If, however, a jack rabbit resulted in the vette racing the bike (because I guarantee the bike can come off the line faster) establishing an actual drag race situation, then yes, the vette holds a certain amount of liability in the issue.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:08:49 PM EDT
If I was on the jury, the corvette guy would walk. He should have got a ticket for racing, reckless or wahtever but this manslaughter is bullshit.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:09:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PsyWarrior:

Originally Posted By Alien:
That's just stupid. The corvette driver should be punished for HIS actions.



OK, let us look at what his actions were....
1. He was engaged in an illegal activity.
2. Some one died as a result of that illegal activity.

Sounds like manslaughter in the commission of a crime to me.......



But the corvette driver did absolutely nothing to cause the motorcycle driver to crash. That was sp;e;y the fault of the biker. And dont give me and bullshit about the vette driver causing it by racing. The biker could have followed the traffic laws and there would have been no race at all. The vette driver is guilty of street racing, not causing the death of anyone.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:17:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 8:20:40 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By Lennster:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Two people illegally racing are accomplices in a crime.
In some states, if your partner dies during commission of the crime, you're considered responsbile for his death.



+1

No problem here. The Corvette driver is partly culpable, in my opinion.

Had he not agreed to race with the other guy (and break the law by doing so), the other guy woudl not have died. Thus, there other guys death is partially the result of this guy's behavior.



So the guy on the motorcycle drove like a maniac BECAUSE of the corvette driver? How do you know the biker would not have driven like a maniac on his own (someone willing to drive like that in the presence of a corvette is likely to do that on his own sometimes IMO)? And exactly how did the vette driver force the biker to race?



By PARTICIPATING in an illegal street race, the Corvette driver is partly responsible. If correct, the article described it as a "drag race" - that's not just reckless driving in traffic, where a Corvette just happend to be next to him in the lane when the light changed.

I'm not saying the Corvette driver MADE the biker drive recklessly, or forced him to crash - in which case it should have been second-degree murder or something. But do you really believe that the motorbike would have "sprinted ahead" of an already high speed, had the Corvette not been there, racing him ? In my opinion, manslaughter is entirely appropriate if you willingly participate in illegal activity that ends up causing the death of another.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:21:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Two people illegally racing are accomplices in a crime.
In some states, if your partner dies during commission of the crime, you're considered responsbile for his death.



Here in NYC if two people are involved in a crime and one of them has a gun, they both can be charged with possession. Total BS to me, unless it's a crew-served weapon. My dad got thrown off a jury for stating that it was bullshit and he wouldn't vote to convict.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:24:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AFARR:

What if I took off pretty quick from a stop light for whatever reason and some dumb fuck like the one on the motorcycle thought I was trying to race them and they crashed and died? Is that still my fault?


No, as you were NOT committing a crime. However, if you "Took off fast" and exceeded the speedlimit by 50+ MPH with the intent to race, then you were both committing a crime.

Same as the Bank Robber who got popped in FL. His 'accomplice' (girlfriend, etc.) can now be charged with Manslaughter (possibly Murder, depending on FL law) in his death. He was killed (legally, I might add) by the police in the commission of a crime. As she was aiding in the commission of the crime, she is partially responsible for his death.

AFARR



If he was legally killed how the hell can there be a manslaughter charge for anyone?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:25:06 PM EDT
If you commit a crime yo entered into a certain situation knowing the risks and accepted that fact. Its no ones fault but your own.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:25:09 PM EDT
Let me get this right...

Person A and Person B are in the commission of a crime; the very least of which will end up in destruction of property, possibly worse.

Person B dies during the commission of that crime.

Now y'all are arguing that Person A should not be charged with a felony in the death of Person B? What if Person C, a random or targeted victim, had died?



So, two guys decide to rob a convience store. The store clerk shoots Assclown B, and Assclown A runs away, and is later caught.

Should Assclown A not be charged with manslaughter? After all, it was in the commission of a possibly violent crime.


Sheesh...people applaud when a mugger gets charged with murder/manslaughter when his partner dies when they both try to mug someone, but cry foul when a pair of street racers race and one wrecks and dies. Thank God he wasn't driving something beefier cause he may have taken the innocent wreckee with him.

Christ, make up your minds.

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:26:10 PM EDT
Hi my name is Ed and i was a formor street racer

As i understood it at the time is that both of you are involved in something illegal and if someone dies you are getting charged with manslaughter for just particpating

hell i got caught one night I and the other guy lined uop but did not take off as the police jumped the gun and we did not move , both of the drivers got our tickets dropped as we did not race however the guy playing flagman with a flashlight could not get his dropped as they said by turning on the light tio start the race he fullfilled his part

Might have just been city atty. BS but i found it intresting
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:37:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Let me get this right...

Person A and Person B are in the commission of a crime; the very least of which will end up in destruction of property, possibly worse.

Person B dies during the commission of that crime.

Now y'all are arguing that Person A should not be charged with a felony in the death of Person B? What if Person C, a random or targeted victim, had died?



So, two guys decide to rob a convience store. The store clerk shoots Assclown B, and Assclown A runs away, and is later caught.

Should Assclown A not be charged with manslaughter? After all, it was in the commission of a possibly violent crime.


Sheesh...people applaud when a mugger gets charged with murder/manslaughter when his partner dies when they both try to mug someone, but cry foul when a pair of street racers race and one wrecks and dies. Thank God he wasn't driving something beefier cause he may have taken the innocent wreckee with him.

Christ, make up your minds.



Huh? In your store clerk good shoot scenario, I don't see why Assclown A should be charged, as Assclown B knew what he was getting into.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:13:35 PM EDT

people applaud when a mugger gets charged with murder/manslaughter when his partner dies when they both try to mug someone

Yes they do, but that's at DUh. Logically speaking, why should someone be charged with a crime they didn't commit?z
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:14:29 PM EDT
VIDEO

that bike is seriously fucked up
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:21:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Two people illegally racing are accomplices in a crime.
In some states, if your partner dies during commission of the crime, you're considered responsbile for his death.



+1

No problem here. The Corvette driver is partly culpable, in my opinion.

Had he not agreed to race with the other guy (and break the law by doing so), the other guy woudl not have died. Thus, there other guys death is partially the result of this guy's behavior.



I don't totally agree. It is possible the motorcycle rider would have sped off regardless. I have had people pull along side me trying to provoke a streetrace. Nearly every time they would perform an exhibition of speed during the attempt and would race off by themselves when I refused to participate.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:30:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:44:30 PM EDT
Let me get this straight. You guys are upset about a legal procedure with decades of case law to back it up?

Hell, Texas has executed folks specifically for this reason going all the way back to the early 1900's and before.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:38:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 12:21:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 12:31:05 AM EDT by GunLogic]
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 1:24:20 AM EDT
Having rolled up on a accident, where to illegal racers plowed into a 3rd car, an older lady, someone's mom, killing her.....I doubt anyone here would be defending the Corvette driver, if they had seen that too.

I know...if, and's, what if's.

Thing is.....only the dumbass on the motorcycle died, lucky he wasn't in a car, or took someone else out with him, and it was only him.

If you have a lead foot, keep it on the track, not on the streets.....
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:53:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSneak:

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Let me get this right...

Person A and Person B are in the commission of a crime; the very least of which will end up in destruction of property, possibly worse.

Person B dies during the commission of that crime.

Now y'all are arguing that Person A should not be charged with a felony in the death of Person B? What if Person C, a random or targeted victim, had died?



So, two guys decide to rob a convience store. The store clerk shoots Assclown B, and Assclown A runs away, and is later caught.

Should Assclown A not be charged with manslaughter? After all, it was in the commission of a possibly violent crime.


Sheesh...people applaud when a mugger gets charged with murder/manslaughter when his partner dies when they both try to mug someone, but cry foul when a pair of street racers race and one wrecks and dies. Thank God he wasn't driving something beefier cause he may have taken the innocent wreckee with him.

Christ, make up your minds.



Huh? In your store clerk good shoot scenario, I don't see why Assclown A should be charged, as Assclown B knew what he was getting into.



Read the news...there's tons of stories where two guys go to rob/beat/rape/mug someone, and one of the perps dies. The surviving perp gets charged with murder during the commission of a felony, or something similar, because someone died as a direct result of his (the surviving partner) actions. Doesn't matter that it's the other perp that died.

It happens all the time, and is in many people's minds a great thing.

Here, that same principal is being applied, and people are getting up in arms about it.

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