I hear a lot of tough talk down at the gun shop but in the end nearly all will cave. The few that will resist will then be talked about as if they were nuts.

To round up most of the guns won't be too hard to do. Once they are ruled contraband; the authorities will just take whatever other property is involved.

A few confiscations of autos, homes and stuff will make the choice easy.

Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished.

I hope it never comes to be and I hope I'm wrong about the non-resistance.

Regards,
Mild Bill

Quoted: Quoted: Honestly I wouldn't tommorrow. If it happend tomorrow I would go into Bug out mode. Where you going to run?  Where you going to hide? I hope it's just to buy time to regroup and make plans

We have our places.

Quoted: WOW! Post it daily.

The dupe police would be all over that.

I'll follow, but I will not lead.

I aint dyin alone, and I aint leadin the charge. Just call me when Its Time.

Of course I don't want to go out in a blaze of glory. Most people do not. However, I have been behind the "wall" [pre fall Berlin] and quite frankly, I would not want to live that way, especially when I knew I had lived better and more freely before.

I seriously doubt it would or could be hidden. Does anyone actually realize the size of this Country? The problems this would cause? While the media would probably have a field day for the first few days complete with wine, cheese and crackers, do you think that they would not begin to question when they as a group might not be the next targeted? If you want control, you control the media, plain and simple. [first you use it to your advantage tho]

It would not take that many people to resist before there would be  calls to cease by congressmen and senators who did not go along with the scheme. While many people are cowards today remember only a small majority at the time of the birth of this Nation had the will to fight. The rest were more then willing to bow at the feet of the king and kiss his feet.

When material things become more important  to you then freedom and liberty, it's time to examine who you really are inside. And why you call yourself a citizen rather then a subject. Before I got remarried I was quite frank with my fieancee about my beliefs, and if she wanted to walk she could. I don't have a doubt after 10 years that she would be right by my side no matter what happened.

And quite frankly, while I was in service to this Country if I was told to do this, [confiscate by force] I would have obeyed my oath, which was not to the politicians but to this Country, and the first "raid" I was on, and the first shot I would take would have been not against those fighting for their constitutional freedoms but to the person running the show where I was at. What would happen next would be something I would either have to live or die with. So be it. And if someone else can't understand that, then you live however you wish for the rest of your miserable existance.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don' t forget the asine "lost them in a boating accident" stories too. I know, those are lame. Sorry to say, though, that all mine were lost due to a tragic accident involving a midget, some Clorox, a shop vac, and a butane lighter. Horrible, just horrible. You too..........................small world

Me too.  They prefer LITTLE world, hater.

Quoted: I hear a lot of tough talk down at the gun shop but in the end nearly all will cave. The few that will resist will then be talked about as if they were nuts. To round up most of the guns won't be too hard to do. Once they are ruled contraband; the authorities will just take whatever other property is involved. A few confiscations of autos, homes and stuff will make the choice easy. Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished. I hope it never comes to be and I hope I'm wrong about the non-resistance. Regards, Mild Bill

Mild Bill sounds just about right!!!

Milf

We're all gonna die one day, the only question is do you want it on your feet, or on your F'n knees?

Seriously though...

I'd be surprised if 1% fought. And that includes me. I'm being honest. I'm not going to bluster online just to impress people.

Besides, guns are scawwy.

Quoted: img59.imageshack.us/img59/7554/cdfin8wn.gif

You are all annoying me...I want names...

It is hard to imagine how history could have been different if Europe had private gun ownership on a scale like we have in the USA.  An occupying army under those conditions could never occupy the United States for long enough to force thier will on us although the terror that we would experience would be absolute.

History does repeat itself however and let only the most liberal fool believe that at some point in the future that there will be huge unrest in the world and the world will once again be at war.  I just hope I have done my part to ensure that my childrens grandchildren have the tools they need to preserve the way of life that some of our liberal counterparts want erased from the Constitution!

"But Hyman, the nice officer said, 'Arbeit Macht Frei'. Let's just go along and not get in trouble."


Just because you surrender your weapon doesn't mean you won't die by a weapon. Of course, it's your choice. What do you think things will be like after the freedom we have had for over 200 years is gone (oh, yeah. they'll probably let you keep your .22s). You'll take it. And you'll like it.

Quoted: "But Hyman, the nice officer said, 'Arbeit Macht Frei'. Let's just go along and not get in trouble." Just because you surrender your weapon doesn't mean you won't die by a weapon. Of course, it's your choice. What do you think things will be like after the freedom we have had for over 200 years is gone (oh, yeah. they'll probably let you keep your .22s). You'll take it. And you'll like it.

It's easier. And you still get to play your XBox.

I'm trying to find a way to be optimistic about this. It's not easy. So long as people are stuck in their superdependent ways and sucking on the media's teat, society is going the way of the sheep. Lazy, fat, stupid sheep.

Quoted: Quoted: "But Hyman, the nice officer said, 'Arbeit Macht Frei'. Let's just go along and not get in trouble." Just because you surrender your weapon doesn't mean you won't die by a weapon. Of course, it's your choice. What do you think things will be like after the freedom we have had for over 200 years is gone (oh, yeah. they'll probably let you keep your .22s). You'll take it. And you'll like it. It's easier. And you still get to play your XBox. I'm trying to find a way to be optimistic about this. It's not easy. So long as people are stuck in their superdependent ways and sucking on the media's teat, society is going the way of the sheep. Lazy, fat, stupid sheep.

It would be interesting to rank the responses to this question as a function of age.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "But Hyman, the nice officer said, 'Arbeit Macht Frei'. Let's just go along and not get in trouble." Just because you surrender your weapon doesn't mean you won't die by a weapon. Of course, it's your choice. What do you think things will be like after the freedom we have had for over 200 years is gone (oh, yeah. they'll probably let you keep your .22s). You'll take it. And you'll like it. It's easier. And you still get to play your XBox. I'm trying to find a way to be optimistic about this. It's not easy. So long as people are stuck in their superdependent ways and sucking on the media's teat, society is going the way of the sheep. Lazy, fat, stupid sheep. It would be interesting to rank the responses to this question as a function of age.

Unfortunately it's the Internet. I think the answers are skewed already.

Quoted: A point was made and needs to be responded to. If the media were to demonize the actions of those fighting for their freedoms, then those media personalities responsible or in collusion with those responsible would have to be added to "the list". I don't think it's crazy to have a contingency plan that addresses such situations as that. I think it's crazy NOT to. CJ

You've got a pretty good grasp on this.

Quoted: I'll follow, but I will not lead. I aint dyin alone, and I aint leadin the charge. Just call me when Its Time.

Better send someone some contact info just in case if that is your verdict.  And I find that attitude more then respectable.  Not everyone is meant to lead.  

-Ben

Quoted: Quoted: A point was made and needs to be responded to. If the media were to demonize the actions of those fighting for their freedoms, then those media personalities responsible or in collusion with those responsible would have to be added to "the list". I don't think it's crazy to have a contingency plan that addresses such situations as that. I think it's crazy NOT to. CJ You've got a pretty good grasp on this.

Your Sigline has an excellent grasp on this Shane.  Where was that statement first made?  Somewhere around Panama no doubt if I remember my history correctly?  Near a narrow stretch of land?

-Ben

If we as a nation get to a time where gun owners need to bury their guns to save them....we've waited too long.

The point of resistance is not that we think our "blaze of glory" is going to defeat the full force of a hypothetical tyrannical government.   The point is, that if you want to live out your time on this earth as a man of principle and of what is just, then you must conduct yourself in such a way that if every man did, there would be no injustice.  If they come to take my rights away by force and I resist, I would not be doing so with the idea that I have a an advantage or even necessarily a chance in hell of defeating the full force of the oppressors, but I would do so knowing that I was doing my part.  If everyone resisted the holocaust instead of going along with it just because they themselves decided "i have no chance", then the holocaust never would have happened.  At the least they would have died honarably fighting against tyranny and injustice, instead of like animals in ovens and gas chambers.  You don't resist only because you have a strategic advantage, you resist because it is the right thing to do.  Watch The Pianist.  If all of the jews in the warsaw ghetto had done what a very select few of them did, and resist, that shit would have gone much differently.  I'll never forget the scene where a couple of jews in the warsaw ghetto with weapons, resisting the germans, made their final stand.  That was courage my friends.  


As far as family goes, that is the most difficult part of the equation.  Yet another reason why family is so important.  If I had to make such a choice, I would do so knowing that my extended family, my parents, in-laws, uncles, aunts, siblings, etc.  would take care of my family when I was gone.  Get right with your extended family.  This is another reason why a nation with a strong belief in the importance of family is stronger then one without.  Men don't want to go to war, whether it be against a tyranical coupe of their just government  (i.e. throwing the constiution out the window) or against foreign enemies, if they can't do so knowing that their immediately family will be taken care of by the rest of their family both economically and emotionally in the event that they do not come home.


I am in the military, and while I haven't been to the sand-box, I have spoken with many who have.  Apparently there have been mercenaries running sniper teams, people who fought in  bosnia who consider us there enemies.  These people actually know what they are doing.  One of the most effective tools the insurgents have used against us, along with the IEDs, is snipers.  The ones who know what they are doing that is.  There isn't a great number of them, so you don't really hear about it.  But if these attacks were carried out in greater numbers they would easily be just as effective as the IEDs.   If we ever had to resist a tyrannical government in our country, your bolt action might be more useful then your AR.  The use of sniper attacks can be as effective in a guerrilla campaign, or even more so, then the use of weapons which we don't have widely available (IEDs, mortars, RPGs, etc.)

ETA:  before i get flamed, when i say the sniper attacks have been effective, i mean proportionate to the relatively small number of them, carried out by trained and skilled individuals (which obviously doesn't  include most terrorists).   Of course, this is just hearsay, but it makes sense to me.  

We obviously don't have the materials necessary to organize mortar teams, IED teams, etc.  But we do have the skill and equipment to organize sniper teams, which can be very effective and are actually better because these types of attacks are much more discrimenent in who they hurt.  Who wants their IED to go off when a bus-load of kids drives by.  Of course the cock-sucker insurgents don't really care about that, but we do.



I think the idea would be not that we would somehow effect great political change and force everyone in office to be replaced.  But hopefully that the American people would demand a stop to the confiscations if it was causing widespread resistance.  It might get the people on our side when they see that we are not being aggressors, but just fighting back when they come for us.  Gun-owners just have to lose the image that many have of us, associating us with indiscriminate terrorists like Timothy McVeigh.  When they saw that the people resisting weren't a bunch of militant whako's and white supremists, but rather their pastor, their lawyer, their neighbor, etc.  then they just might realize what would really be going on.


Remember Ashton O Dwyer?  That man is an American.


ETA again:
I don't know if I am ready to commit to saying that I would engage in offensive operations.  But what I do know that I can say, with a 100% clear conscience, is that when men come to kick in MY door, to infringe upon my rights when I have not infringed upon anyone else's, and to shit upon the Constiutional Repulic our founders created, I will be shooting back.  Clearly, they are the aggressors.  

This nation was founded by men of great faith, zealous for Christ Jesus and to do the will of God.

We still exist today, We love God and do not fear death.

Do not fear the death of the body, fear the death of the soul.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill

Quoted: Of course I don't want to go out in a blaze of glory. Most people do not. However, I have been behind the "wall" [pre fall Berlin] and quite frankly, I would not want to live that way, especially when I knew I had lived better and more freely before. I seriously doubt it would or could be hidden. Does anyone actually realize the size of this Country? The problems this would cause? While the media would probably have a field day for the first few days complete with wine, cheese and crackers, do you think that they would not begin to question when they as a group might not be the next targeted? If you want control, you control the media, plain and simple. [first you use it to your advantage tho] It would not take that many people to resist before there would be  calls to cease by congressmen and senators who did not go along with the scheme. While many people are cowards today remember only a small majority at the time of the birth of this Nation had the will to fight. The rest were more then willing to bow at the feet of the king and kiss his feet. When material things become more important  to you then freedom and liberty, it's time to examine who you really are inside. And why you call yourself a citizen rather then a subject. Before I got remarried I was quite frank with my fieancee about my beliefs, and if she wanted to walk she could. I don't have a doubt after 10 years that she would be right by my side no matter what happened. And quite frankly, while I was in service to this Country if I was told to do this, [confiscate by force] I would have obeyed my oath, which was not to the politicians but to this Country, and the first "raid" I was on, and the first shot I would take would have been not against those fighting for their constitutional freedoms but to the person running the show where I was at. What would happen next would be something I would either have to live or die with. So be it. And if someone else can't understand that, then you live however you wish for the rest of your miserable existance.

Hey!  I'm over 50 and probally don't have all that much time left anyhow.  I'm hanging with folks like fxntime  that will stand up for our freedoms.  Just the way I am!

Call me paranoid, but I'm waiting for these times to come. I do not wish for them to come but I do wait, and on that note I spend a good amount of thinking out my actions and how this scenario might go down should it happen. I feel I have come to terms with this unlikely event should our government forcefully take our freedoms in such a matter. It would be so that I could never be ready enough, but I am confident in my defense and the defense of my loved ones, that I would rather die a patiot than live under dictation!

That pic of the ATF symbol reminded me of my biggest
disappoinment in these last few years.  

I was so hopeful ,that with a Republican as president ,
we would FINALLY clean house.

I was hopeful that the truth on many events would come to light,
and that those agents of evil that have hidden behind their
badges would be revealed for what they really are.

I know that terrorism has forced it's way into center stage,but
I truely fear that GWs legacy will be the weakening of our
rights,and the strengthening of the power of those
non-elected officials who will so assuredly abuse their power
through the ATF and other groups.

W ,you really let me down.


I think of Katrina as an opportunity for the powers that be to
see how much they can get away with.
All they did,and with a Republican in the White House.

Once a Socialistic Democrat gains office with these powers,
it may be irreversable through peaceful means.

Food for thought.

Just remember... the JBTs have homes in the same places we do.  They have to go home and sleep sometime... but they don't have to wake up.

Remember,
                 Going down in a blaze of glory...
                                                                Is still Going Down!

Wouldn't it be ironic if armed resistance to the Feds was helped with weapons supplied by the Chicoms?
RPG's
IED's

Would the freedom fighters take the aid? Wallyworld could even be the distributer.

Quoted: Remember,                  Going down in a blaze of glory...                                                                 Is still Going Down!

Not to a christian, the early grave means they are the first up

i look at it this way

insurgency works well
sniper fire works great for area denial
area denial ruins moral
with no moral unlawful orders mean a lot less

think about the under ground in WW2 the german solders did not want to go in to some areas due to a single person in the town with a single rifle. the whole town started off as an area denial, then when the germans moved in with large numbers of solders, the citizens of the town became more upset. and the single guy with the rifle just took his single shots more carefully. then there where other willing to help the single guy. the next thing you now the whole town was all in or helping the under ground.

i once read some where there where days when the under ground killed more solders than what died in the trenches, and some days the under ground blew up more stuff than the bombs did ( mostly becuase of accuracy )

my question is does the .gov have enough alphabet guys to control even have of the cities in the US. then the next thing we hope the solders have enough balls to under stand what is right

.

Quoted: my question is does the .gov have enough alphabet guys to control even have of the cities in the US. then the next thing we hope the solders have enough balls to under stand what is right

The germans would also hang at least ten people from the town on meat hooks and then kill everybody in the town, herd them into barns and burn the barn down on them. Kinda like WACO only they did not take trophy pics like the FBI did.

Plenty examples of the U.S. soldiers killing Americans the gov wanted rid of.

I would rather die than live in total slavery, we are very close to that now with none of the bill of rights enforced and all of the planks of the communist manifesto enforced.

Quoted: Quoted: Remember,                  Going down in a blaze of glory...                                                                 Is still Going Down! Not to a christian, the early grave means they are the first up

Going down Is better than being held down........IMO.

Never going to happen.  Please, our all powerful goverment can't even secure our own boarders.  Look at how they fumble f*cked NOLA.  Could you emagin what even 100k die hard rifleman would do in sniper gorilla warefare mode. We will only loose our rights if the country takes a dramtic swing to the left, which I don't think is likely based on resent election results.  Sure some guns are illegal in parts of this country, which is a shame, but I don't see them going door to door there and taking anyones guns.

Quoted: Never going to happen.  Please, our all powerful goverment can't even secure our own boarders.  Look at how they fumble f*cked NOLA.  Could you emagin what even 100k die hard rifleman would do in sniper gorilla warefare mode. We will only loose our rights if the country takes a dramtic swing to the left, which I don't think is likely based on resent election results.  Sure some guns are illegal in parts of this country, which is a shame, but I don't see them going door to door there and taking anyones guns.

They went door to door taking arms by force in NOLA remember, complete with U.S. armed services and foreign military.

They did, they can, and they will !

A wise man once said, "BLOAT, cache and take names."


cmjohnson knows why the part in red is important.

I will never bury them in my yard, drop them in a lake, stash them in my walls, or "lose" them in a poker game. They might come and take them, but they will NEVER come and get them, while I'm within reach of them.

I'm no tough guy, not a crack shot, certainly no bad-ass....But I believe what I believe.....and that is:
MOLON LABE!

Quoted: I like it.  I fear 99% of the people on this board would not heed its call though. -Ben

1% of us is still a pretty effective force...

Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished.

And so a slave is born....

Quoted: Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished. And so a slave is born....

Agreed.

Apparently we should teach our families, as the father figure, that morals and priciples are nothing. All that matters is that we cower, and lick the master's hand at each opportunity. That the safety of yourself and the welfare of your family is to be upheld at as little a cost as possible.

If this person's family can't get their shit together, move on, and keep going in the face of utmost adversity...  I don't see how he has been much of a father at all. What has he taught his children? To cower? To beg? To hide?

Shameful.

I was so hopeful ,that with a Republican as president , we would FINALLY clean house.

Glad you have taken the first step to non-sheepdom, the republicans are our enemy just as much as the dems.  Worst part of ARFCOM is all the blind right wing love.

Quoted: Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished. And so a slave is born....[V]

Yup, another slave indeed.

Quoted: Quoted: Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished. And so a slave is born.... Yup, another slave indeed.

"I'm a parent. I haven't got the luxury of principles."

I hope that many of you realize this war has already started.  You cannot "wait" for them to come door to door, or even for us to number in the tens or hundreds of thousands.  Doing so will only give them more time to chip away at our leaders and us and destroy us.  

-Ben

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished. And so a slave is born.... Yup, another slave indeed. "I'm a parent. I haven't got the luxury of principles."

That attitude got changed PDQ, now didn't it?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished. And so a slave is born.... Yup, another slave indeed. "I'm a parent. I haven't got the luxury of principles."

For a parent, principles are not a luxury....they are a requirement.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished. And so a slave is born.... Yup, another slave indeed. "I'm a parent. I haven't got the luxury of principles." That attitude got changed PDQ, now didn't it?

Yep. And pointing out that what appears to be the comments of a "slave" here could merely be the same as those of Benjamin Martin, and could change just as well if/when the time finally comes.

Quoted: i look at it this way insurgency works well sniper fire works great for area denial area denial ruins moral with no moral unlawful orders mean a lot less ...

Iraq has turned out to be good training for our military.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Give up your heroic self-image and illusion of liberty and keep  your family home and economic security intact or  go out in a blaze of glory knowing that your family will be without a father and impoverished. And so a slave is born.... Yup, another slave indeed. "I'm a parent. I haven't got the luxury of principles." That attitude got changed PDQ, now didn't it? Yep. And pointing out that what appears to be the comments of a "slave" here could merely be the same as those of Benjamin Martin, and could change just as well if/when the time finally comes.

Point taken.