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Posted: 1/10/2006 5:28:45 PM EDT
My beliefs in a nutshell. Why is considered kooky? Is libertarianism hampered mor by its candidates or ideology?

Libertarianism is a political philosophy[1] that favors individual rights, private property rights, and free markets. Libertarians believe that individuals should be free to act as they wish as long as they do not initiate or threaten the use of physical force or fraud against another person or their property. Thus, libertarians oppose most government intervention in private affairs. These ideas based on individualism are very similar and maybe somewhat influenced by the beliefs of the Chinese Philosophy, Daoism.


Criticism of libertarianism from the Left tends to focus on its economic aspects, claiming that capitalism of a radical laissez-faire (free market) character undermines individual liberty, or creates social inequality and poverty, harming society and the economy. Criticism of libertarianism from the Right tends to focus on issues of tradition and personal morality, claiming that libertarianism allows for extensive personal freedom that encourages unhealthy and immoral behavior. Both left- and right-wing critics of libertarianism claim that libertarian ideas about individual economic and social freedom are contradictory, untenable or undesirable. Libertarianism's proponents claim it to be a sound rethinking of classical ideologies and a rejection of harmful statist policies. They further claim that personal responsibility, private charity, voluntary solidarity and economic liberalism are more effective, and/or more ethical, in eliminating poverty than government intervention and tax-funded programs. Finally, in opposition to most traditional and religious views, libertarians claim that individualism is the basis for all morality.

Source

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:35:22 PM EDT
Nothing to say after 30+ reads?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:36:53 PM EDT
honestly too much text, but what I read sounds pretty good
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:40:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:
honestly too much text, but what I read sounds pretty good



2 questions and 2 paragrphs is too much text? WTF, A.D.D. is that rampant?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:42:10 PM EDT
Mainstream America is not open to several of the issues supported by the Libertarian party, such as legalized marijuana, prostitution, porn, etc. Can you picture Ma and Pa Kettle living in Ohio, or Wisconsin, or Nebraska actually voting for a candidate of this party? Hell No!!

Moreover, could you ever picture religious conservatives, or liberal socialists voting for a Libertarian candidate? Hell No!!

The Libertarian party would have been light years ahead to have made a public statement regarding property rights - BEFORE the supreme court decision. Overall, I feel I'm kind of a cross between Republican and Libertarian.

Just my $.02 - - but then again, opinions vary.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:44:01 PM EDT
IT just kind of beat it to death in there. I agree with ya', I was just trying to help you out bro...hinking.gif
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:46:02 PM EDT
Now shut up about politics and start posting something about shooting
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:47:06 PM EDT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:
honestly too much text, but what I read sounds pretty good
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 questions and 2 paragrphs is too much text? WTF, A.D.D. is that rampant?



you've got to make your point quick if you aren't going to talk about oral sex or guns. Research has shown that the average ar15 attention span is a linear function ... of... uh..

oh look, a ladybug. bye
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:47:50 PM EDT
Human nature is evil. Man WILL be governed, either by himself (morality) or by an external government. Ours is a nation based on Christian self government. If one is bound internally to a high moral standard the external framework can be minimal. Remove the moral chains from the man and eventually the government MUST take their place. Libertarian thought is a utopian pipe dream founded on a false premise of human nature being basically good. It will not work. Have a nice day.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:48:05 PM EDT
Libertarians should merge with Republicans and then quietly take over.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:48:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Mainstream America is not open to several of the issues supported by the Libertarian party, such as legalized marijuana, prostitution, porn, etc. Can you picture Ma and Pa Kettle living in Ohio, or Wisconsin, or Nebraska actually voting for a candidate of this party? Hell No!!

Moreover, could you ever picture religious conservatives, or liberal socialists voting for a Libertarian candidate? Hell No!!

The Libertarian party would have been light years ahead to have made a public statement regarding property rights - BEFORE the supreme court decision. Overall, I feel I'm kind of a cross between Republican and Libertarian.

Just my $.02 - - but then again, opinions vary.




This is because very few people actually beleive the tenents set forth in the Constitution should actually, as was intended, guide the country.

And it is considered kooky precisely for the reason I stated above.

People want to have the freedoms they want, but want to deny others freedoms the other person wants and vice-versa. The major problem in America today.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:49:37 PM EDT
You've posted the academic definition of "liberal."

The modern liberal ideology is very different from that definition. Today liberalism is truly a mental illness.

I'm serious.

CMOS
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:49:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Mainstream America is not open to several of the issues supported by the Libertarian party, such as legalized marijuana, prostitution, porn, etc. Can you picture Ma and Pa Kettle living in Ohio, or Wisconsin, or Nebraska actually voting for a candidate of this party? Hell No!!

Moreover, could you ever picture religious conservatives, or liberal socialists voting for a Libertarian candidate? Hell No!!

The Libertarian party would have been light years ahead to have made a public statement regarding property rights - BEFORE the supreme court decision. Overall, I feel I'm kind of a cross between Republican and Libertarian.

Just my $.02 - - but then again, opinions vary.




So we need a mass senior citiczen die off? Also the two party system is not working very well if you have not noticed.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:49:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yossarian:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Mainstream America is not open to several of the issues supported by the Libertarian party, such as legalized marijuana, prostitution, porn, etc. Can you picture Ma and Pa Kettle living in Ohio, or Wisconsin, or Nebraska actually voting for a candidate of this party? Hell No!!

Moreover, could you ever picture religious conservatives, or liberal socialists voting for a Libertarian candidate? Hell No!!

The Libertarian party would have been light years ahead to have made a public statement regarding property rights - BEFORE the supreme court decision. Overall, I feel I'm kind of a cross between Republican and Libertarian.

Just my $.02 - - but then again, opinions vary.




This is because very few people actually beleive the tenents set forth in the Constitution should actually, as was intended, guide the country.

And it is considered kooky precisely for the reason I stated above.

People want to have the freedoms they want, but want to deny others freedoms the other person wants and vice-versa. The major problem in America today.




+ 1 bazillion
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:50:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
Libertarians should merge with Republicans and then quietly take over.




Religous extremists and liberty seekers don't mix.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:52:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CMOS:
You've posted the academic definition of "liberal."

The modern liberal ideology is very different from that definition. Today liberalism is truly a mental illness.

I'm serious.

CMOS



Modern liberalism is SOCIALISM. That is the problem.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:52:34 PM EDT
Libertarians on ARFCOM are a group that the hardline neocon Inquisitors here have a perverse love of Crusading and rallying against. We libertarians are the "pie-in-the-sky" traitors to the GOP who would "cut off our nose to spite our face" when confronted with issues that we refuse to yeild on, or when we are willing to "call a spade a spade" and confront the inadequacies of the GOP and their elected members. We also hold somewhat liberal values that the anti-personal freedom Inquisitors love to bash.

Libertarians, wether they be "big L" or "small l", aren't accepted here with the rousing support that the hardline neocons are. It doesn't matter the issue, if someone comes "out of the closet" as a libertarian, they are bashed more often than not.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:53:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

Originally Posted By Yossarian:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Mainstream America is not open to several of the issues supported by the Libertarian party, such as legalized marijuana, prostitution, porn, etc. Can you picture Ma and Pa Kettle living in Ohio, or Wisconsin, or Nebraska actually voting for a candidate of this party? Hell No!!

Moreover, could you ever picture religious conservatives, or liberal socialists voting for a Libertarian candidate? Hell No!!

The Libertarian party would have been light years ahead to have made a public statement regarding property rights - BEFORE the supreme court decision. Overall, I feel I'm kind of a cross between Republican and Libertarian.

Just my $.02 - - but then again, opinions vary.




This is because very few people actually beleive the tenents set forth in the Constitution should actually, as was intended, guide the country.

And it is considered kooky precisely for the reason I stated above.

People want to have the freedoms they want, but want to deny others freedoms the other person wants and vice-versa. The major problem in America today.




+ 1 bazillion



Agreed we need to stay out of each others business.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:56:10 PM EDT
A major problem with libertarians is a tendency towards theory and utopian ideas. What libertarians need to do is learn pragmatic political skills.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:57:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MoparMike:
Libertarians on ARFCOM are a group that the hardline neocon Inquisitors here have a perverse love of Crusading and rallying against. We libertarians are the "pie-in-the-sky" traitors to the GOP who would "cut off our nose to spite our face" when confronted with issues that we refuse to yeild on, or when we are willing to "call a spade a spade" and confront the inadequacies of the GOP and their elected members. We also hold somewhat liberal values that the anti-personal freedom Inquisitors love to bash.

Libertarians, wether they be "big L" or "small l", aren't accepted here with the rousing support that the hardline neocons are. It doesn't matter the issue, if someone comes "out of the closet" as a libertarian, they are bashed more often than not.



Around here at least we agree on liberty, economics, and guns. We divide minorly on drugs, but not the drug war. We also diverge on migration legal or not. Religous fundamentalism is the divide, it boils down to they want to legislate their religous beliefs forcefully. We cannot respect the privacy of others it is that simple.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:00:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MoparMike:
Libertarians on ARFCOM are a group that the hardline neocon Inquisitors here have a perverse love of Crusading and rallying against. We libertarians are the "pie-in-the-sky" traitors to the GOP who would "cut off our nose to spite our face" when confronted with issues that we refuse to yeild on, or when we are willing to "call a spade a spade" and confront the inadequacies of the GOP and their elected members. We also hold somewhat liberal values that the anti-personal freedom Inquisitors love to bash.

Libertarians, wether they be "big L" or "small l", aren't accepted here with the rousing support that the hardline neocons are. It doesn't matter the issue, if someone comes "out of the closet" as a libertarian, they are bashed more often than not.



The GOP seems to be having trouble delivering on its small government ethos, despite control of pretty much each branch of the government. That said, libertarians are their own worst enemy with what is really a pie-in-the-sky ideology.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:02:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By MoparMike:
Libertarians on ARFCOM are a group that the hardline neocon Inquisitors here have a perverse love of Crusading and rallying against. We libertarians are the "pie-in-the-sky" traitors to the GOP who would "cut off our nose to spite our face" when confronted with issues that we refuse to yeild on, or when we are willing to "call a spade a spade" and confront the inadequacies of the GOP and their elected members. We also hold somewhat liberal values that the anti-personal freedom Inquisitors love to bash.

Libertarians, wether they be "big L" or "small l", aren't accepted here with the rousing support that the hardline neocons are. It doesn't matter the issue, if someone comes "out of the closet" as a libertarian, they are bashed more often than not.



The GOP seems to be having trouble delivering on its small government ethos, despite control of pretty much each branch of the government. That said, libertarians are their own worst enemy with what is really a pie-in-the-sky ideology.




It would be nice if Libertarians could replace the Dims at least. GOP is seriosly failing thier small Government charter.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:04:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 6:06:13 PM EDT by ARDunstan]

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By MoparMike:
Libertarians on ARFCOM are a group that the hardline neocon Inquisitors here have a perverse love of Crusading and rallying against. We libertarians are the "pie-in-the-sky" traitors to the GOP who would "cut off our nose to spite our face" when confronted with issues that we refuse to yeild on, or when we are willing to "call a spade a spade" and confront the inadequacies of the GOP and their elected members. We also hold somewhat liberal values that the anti-personal freedom Inquisitors love to bash.

Libertarians, wether they be "big L" or "small l", aren't accepted here with the rousing support that the hardline neocons are. It doesn't matter the issue, if someone comes "out of the closet" as a libertarian, they are bashed more often than not.



The GOP seems to be having trouble delivering on its small government ethos, despite control of pretty much each branch of the government. That said, libertarians are their own worst enemy with what is really a pie-in-the-sky ideology.




Thats because the majority of today's Republicans in office have been beaten down
into submission by the democrats to believe the mantra of "Bi-Partisanship."
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:05:08 PM EDT
Read the Libertarian Party's platform. While I have libertarian ideals, they are fruitcakes with their stance on the UCMJ and other stuff related to the military.

Also, their leader, Harry W. Browne, said we deserved Sept 11. No thanks.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:10:30 PM EDT
Mainstream America is no longer in favor of private property rights either. And that has been a pretty good indicator in past history that tyranny is not far away. Or is it already here but disguised as a two party system that leaves us no real choice?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:11:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Read the Libertarian Party's platform. While I have libertarian ideals, they are fruitcakes with their stance on the UCMJ and other stuff related to the military.

Also, their leader, Harry W. Browne, said we deserved Sept 11. No thanks.



I agree new leadership is needed. This sounds damn good though.

Libertarian Party Program On Crime



Highlights and Summary of
The Libertarian Party's Solution to America's Crime Problem
An approach to criminal justice and crime control that is smart, compassionate and tough. An approach that will make our streets safe again.

America suffers from an epidemic of violence and crime, victimizing one family out of four every year. There is a murder every half hour, a rape every five minutes, and a theft every four seconds.

Despite decades of tough talk, the anti-crime policies of the Republicans and Democrats have clearly failed. The Libertarian Party believes a fresh approach is needed. That's why we're offering this five-point plan for making America's streets safe again:

Step 1. Protect Victims' Rights
Protecting the rights and interests of victims should be the basis of our criminal justice system. Victims should have the right to be present, consulted and heard throughout the prosecution of their case.

In addition, Libertarians would do more than just punish criminals. We would also make them pay restitution to their victims for the damage they've caused, including property loss, medical costs, pain, and suffering. If you are the victim of a crime, the criminal should fully compensate you for your loss.

Step 2. End Prohibition
Drug prohibition does more to make Americans unsafe than any other factor. Just as alcohol prohibition gave us Al Capone and the mafia, drug prohibition has given us the Crips, the Bloods and drive-by shootings. Consider the historical evidence: America's murder rate rose nearly 70% during alcohol prohibition, but returned to its previous levels after prohibition ended. Now, since the War on Drugs began, America's murder rates have doubled. The cause/effect relationship is clear. Prohibition is putting innocent lives at risk.

What's more, drug prohibition also inflates the cost of drugs, leading users to steal to support their high priced habits. It is estimated that drug addicts commit 25% of all auto thefts, 40% of robberies and assaults, and 50% of burglaries and larcenies. Prohibition puts your property at risk. Finally, nearly one half of all police resources are devoted to stopping drug trafficking, instead of preventing violent crime. The bottom line? By ending drug prohibition Libertarians would double the resources available for crime prevention, and significantly reduce the number of violent criminals at work in your neighborhood.

Step 3. Get Tough on Real Crime
The Libertarian Party is the party of personal responsibility. We believe that anyone who harms another person should be held responsible for that action. By contrast, the Democrats and Republicans have created a system where criminals can get away with almost anything.

For instance: sentences seldom mean what they say. Fewer than one out of every four violent felons serves more than four years. Libertarians would dramatically reduce the number of these early releases by eliminating their root cause - prison over-crowding.

Since nearly six out of every ten federal prison inmates are there for non-violent drug-related offenses, it's clear that drug prohibition is the primary source of this over-crowding. It has been estimated that every drug offender imprisoned results in the release of one violent criminal, who then commits an average of 40 robberies, 7 assaults, 110 burglaries and 25 auto thefts. Early release of violent criminals puts you and your family at risk. It must stop.

Step 4. Protect the Right to Self-Defense
We believe that the private ownership of firearms is part of the solution to America's crime epidemic, not part of the problem. Evidence: law-abiding citizens in Florida have been able to carry concealed weapons since 1987. During that time, the murder rate in Florida has declined 21% while the national murder rate has increased 12%.

In addition, evidence shows that self-defense with guns is the safest response to violent crime. It results in fewer injuries to the defender (17.4% injury rate) than any other response, including not resisting at all (24.7% injury rate). Libertarians would repeal waiting periods, concealed carry laws, and other restrictions that make it difficult for victims to defend themselves, and end the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense.

Step 5. Address the Root Causes of Crime
Any society that lets kids grow up dependent on government welfare, attending government schools that fail to teach, and entering an economy where government policy has crushed opportunity, will be a society that breeds criminals. No permanent solution to crime will be found until we address these root causes of crime.

The Libertarian Party would increase employment opportunities by slashing taxes and government red tape. We would also end the welfare system with its culture of dependence and hopelessness. Most important of all, we would promote low-cost private alternatives to the failed government school system.

Conclusion
The Libertarian Party's anti-crime plan would do what the Democrats and Republicans have not done:

Respect the victim's rights and make criminals pay full restitution.
Hold all criminals responsible for their actions.
Double the police resources available for crime prevention without any additional government spending.
Reduce the number of criminals at large on our streets.
Defend the most effective crime deterrent available, the private ownership of guns.
Create jobs, end welfare dependence, and improve education.
This Libertarian program would help make America's streets safe again.

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