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Posted: 1/10/2006 1:57:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 2:09:18 PM EDT by rob78]
Guns Magazine 2006 Combat Annual pg.94

Remington M24A2 with sound suppressor, Aramid Stock, monster scope (looks to 50mm obj) with huge sunshade
AND
and attached Surefire light (one of the larger ones M600?) with pressure tape switch mounted just in front of the bolt handle.

This isn't the first time I've seen this. Surefire's most recent magazine has several pictures of rifles similarly set up.

Enlighten me ARFCOM...otherwise I'll attribute this kind of thing to Asshat writers.

BTW: I know better than to buy this kind of drivel...I'm sticking to S.W.A.T solely from now on.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:58:20 PM EDT
might be useful if the rifle had a bayonet also
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:58:57 PM EDT
I have a light mounted on one of my long range setups.............I use it to shoot coyotes in the dark of the night.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:00:04 PM EDT
$$$$$$$

It's SureFire trying to sell lights.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:01:17 PM EDT
Why not? If it's your primary weapon put a light on it.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:07:55 PM EDT
Snipers - real snipers - frequently operate in total darkness at ranges under 4m. A surefire is very useful for precision riflery at those distances. Don't ask me how I know. I could go to prison if I answered.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:10:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Don't ask me how I know. I could go to prison if I answered.



Cowboy up and take a prison sentence for the team! How do you know?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:10:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:11:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Snipers - real snipers - frequently operate in total darkness at ranges under 4m. A surefire is very useful for precision riflery at those distances. Don't ask me how I know. I could go to prison if I answered.



I've read a few anecdotes regarding Carlos Hathcock's kills...some as close as 10 ft

I'm no sniper, but wouldn't illumination (especially 125+lumens) immediately disclose your position?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:15:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Snipers - real snipers - frequently operate in total darkness at ranges under 4m. A surefire is very useful for precision riflery at those distances. Don't ask me how I know. I could go to prison if I answered.



I've read a few anecdotes regarding Carlos Hathcock's kills...some as close as 10 ft

I'm no sniper, but wouldn't illumination (especially 125+lumens) immediately disclose your position?



Um... yes.

It makes a nice target for return fire. The purpose of an extremely bright light in CQB is to not only identify your target, but to blind your opponent and make it harder for him to return fire.

If you extend the range to 50 meters or more, the blinding effect goes away and you have just made yourself a target. The only method that works well at this distance is to use the light momentarily, move, shoot, use the light, move, shoot, etc.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:19:20 PM EDT
so I guess the general consensus here is that the combination is pure asshattery and should be banned?

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:20:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:
so I guess the general consensus here is that the combination is pure asshattery and should be banned?




If a long range rifle is going to be used at night, it needs a night vision scope, not a flashlight.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:21:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
$$$$$$$

It's SureFire trying to sell lights.




lol...obviously.

in their mag "Combat Tactics" there are some rifles pictured with as many as 3 monster flashlights, an IR illuminator, red laser.

got to be at least 20 pounds of cowbell on some of those rifles.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:21:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:
so I guess the general consensus here is that the combination is pure asshattery and should be banned?




Yep. It is only allowed on the Airsoft boards.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:23:00 PM EDT
Some units use the IR illuminator mounted to their sniper rifles because the base of the round will reflect the IR light, making an erstaz IR tracer.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:24:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Some units use the IR illuminator mounted to their sniper rifles because the base of the round will reflect the IR light, making an erstaz IR tracer.



I'd like to see that in person, I bet that is cool as hell.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:24:20 PM EDT
I need to write FMG publications and G&A for a full refund.

pure misrepresentation...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:35:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:
I need to write FMG publications and G&A for a full refund.

pure misrepresentation...



Don't get your MARPAT panties twisted in a knot over it. I am sure police sharpshooters could make good use of illumination.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:57:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Some units use the IR illuminator mounted to their sniper rifles because the base of the round will reflect the IR light, making an erstaz IR tracer.





How does that work with the recoil of the rifle, plus the trajectory of the bullet, Plus being a human and not being perfectly still.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:00:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USGI_45:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Some units use the IR illuminator mounted to their sniper rifles because the base of the round will reflect the IR light, making an erstaz IR tracer.





How does that work with the recoil of the rifle, plus the trajectory of the bullet, Plus being a human and not being perfectly still.



It's not an IR Laser it is an illuminator, so it has a pretty large area of coverage. Your are talking yards as range increases.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:09:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USGI_45:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Some units use the IR illuminator mounted to their sniper rifles because the base of the round will reflect the IR light, making an erstaz IR tracer.





How does that work with the recoil of the rifle, plus the trajectory of the bullet, Plus being a human and not being perfectly still.



If you're "human" (your word, not mine), maybe you aren't real sniper material, Nancy.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:12:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 3:15:41 PM EDT by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Snipers - real snipers - frequently operate in total darkness at ranges under 4m. A surefire is very useful for precision riflery at those distances. Don't ask me how I know. I could go to prison if I answered.



I've read a few anecdotes regarding Carlos Hathcock's kills...some as close as 10 ft




See, that's the thing. We read about the "Glamor Boys" with their 1200 yard kills and such, but that's child's play. The real work - the stuff you never hear about - happens where a MOA is less than a micron. That's where men do their sniping. A guy I know did 2 tours in 'Nam with a Winchester Model 70 in .308 with a longitudinally mounted 300 power microscope and a 6-cell coon lamp duct taped to the barrel. It wasnt easy work, but it had to be done.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:17:13 PM EDT
Lots o' bullshit in this thread.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:20:30 PM EDT
Likely used to hunt at night, not to kill haji's at night.

Is it legal to hunt by spot light at night? I've heard about it often enough.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:26:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Some units use the IR illuminator mounted to their sniper rifles because the base of the round will reflect the IR light, making an erstaz IR tracer.



I would not want to be using an IR illuminator if the enemy is
equipped with even rudimentary NV, like the Draganov 'scope
being used by the BG's over in Iraq.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:36:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 3:45:39 PM EDT by FortyFiveAutomatic]

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Snipers - real snipers - frequently operate in total darkness at ranges under 4m. A surefire is very useful for precision riflery at those distances. Don't ask me how I know. I could go to prison if I answered.



I've read a few anecdotes regarding Carlos Hathcock's kills...some as close as 10 ft




See, that's the thing. We read about the "Glamor Boys" with their 1200 yard kills and such, but that's child's play. The real work - the stuff you never hear about - happens where a MOA is less than a micron. That's where men do their sniping. A guy I know did 2 tours in 'Nam with a Winchester Model 70 in .308 with a longitudinally mounted 300 power microscope and a 6-cell coon lamp duct taped to the barrel. It wasnt easy work, but it had to be done.



LOL

This has been a topic of discussion for me a few times in the past.

I didn't have much faith in Guns and Ammo to begin with, but after reading SureFire Combat Tactics, I'll never buy their stupid rag again. The Scott Reitz article about "urban sniping" is what really got my goat. He seemed to have a high opinion of himself and his methods, most of which involve lashing giant SureFire lamps onto precision rifles with 90mph tape and paracord, because according to the article, only newbies actually use M1913 rails to do that.

I have heard a lot of people contrarily tell me, "No way, Scott Reitz is a REAL professional." Maybe he was, but I'll not be taking classes with that dumbshit any day soon.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:39:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wes15a2:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Some units use the IR illuminator mounted to their sniper rifles because the base of the round will reflect the IR light, making an erstaz IR tracer.



I would not want to be using an IR illuminator if the enemy is
equipped with even rudimentary NV, like the Draganov 'scope
being used by the BG's over in Iraq.



If you look at most rifles used by both the line units and HSLD unit, you will notice IR lasers and illuminators on them. The PAQ-4 and PEQ 2, not to mention the PEQ-4 are well represented in use in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:41:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:01:41 PM EDT
what if they are giant IR spotlights?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:03:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
$$$$$$$

It's SureFire trying to sell lights.




Or it's a writer trying to justify his sample SureFire light from the Company.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:32:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wes15a2:
I would not want to be using an IR illuminator if the enemy is
equipped with even rudimentary NV, like the Draganov 'scope
being used by the BG's over in Iraq.



An active-IR 'detector' does not equate to NV, rudimentary or otherwise.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:37:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
I have heard a lot of people contrarily tell me, "No way, Scott Reitz is a REAL professional." Maybe he was, but I'll not be taking classes with that dumbshit any day soon.

- People around here never cease to amaze me. Skip his classes if you want....its only your skills that will suffer
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:39:06 PM EDT
Real snipers all use the highspeed Rio Linda Surefire...
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