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Posted: 1/8/2006 7:31:24 PM EDT
I'm trying to decide on a small pocket pistol for a back up to my Para Ord C7.45. I was looking at a NAA Guardian .380 at the gunshop and I think along those lines. Any thoughts or better ways to go...I don't want to go any smaller caliber wise.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:33:39 PM EDT
Request that picture of all of the pocket guns side by side in one picture. Very informative.

I personally carry a Kahr PM9 in 9mm. It is very close to the size and shape of the NAA.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:35:13 PM EDT
kel tec is the only way to go for pocket pistols
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:37:21 PM EDT
Sig P232 in 380 is the best thing out there.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:39:20 PM EDT
Glock 26/27 or a Makarov
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:39:40 PM EDT
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:41:35 PM EDT
my Kel-Tec is pretty handy for minimal wear.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:43:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I'm trying to decide on a small pocket pistol for a back up to my Para Ord C7.45. I was looking at a NAA Guardian .380 at the gunshop and I think along those lines. Any thoughts or better ways to go...I don't want to go any smaller caliber wise.



i've heard the guardian's weigh way too much to carry.

YMMV - but feel how heavy it is b4 buying.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:43:29 PM EDT
I sometimes carry a Walther PPKs. Its good for some people, not for others, depending on your grip. Sometimes it will tear at the web of your hand. Shoot one before buying.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:43:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:44:22 PM EDT by GonzoAR15-1]
My favorite pocket pistol right now is a Star Model SS in .380.

Little miniature 1911 looking thing, although the internals are quite a bit different. I'm working a pretty "beatup" one I got for cheap into a backup. It came pretty rusted and dinged, so I stripped the bluing, checkered the frontstrap, grooved the rear of the grip, made some grips, and I'm going to have nightsites put on it. It will be finished in Norrell's moly resin shortly.

The nice thing about it is that its a locked breach design, so its very narrow and thin, yet strong enough to handle CORBONs all day long. It holds 8 in the mag + one in the pipe. Recoil is less than a blowback 380 like a PPK/s or Sig 232 or the similar.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:44:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Sig P232 in 380 is the best thing out there.



It's a good little pistol. Thin and light. Decent sights.

I don't care for the European-type mag release.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:44:31 PM EDT
naa .22 mag revolver in a condom, kept in the colon.

hows that for deep concealment?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:46:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
naa .22 mag revolver in a condom, kept in the colon.

hows that for deep concealment?



Redefines "squeezing one off".
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:46:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhatForrest:
I sometimes carry a Walther PPKs. Its good for some people, not for others, depending on your grip. Sometimes it will tear at the web of your hand. Shoot one before buying.



I carry my PPK/s every day. S&W fixed the hand-bite problem by lenghthening the tang. I had the Interarms PPK/s and sold it because it bit back...this one is perfect.

HH
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:47:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:49:26 PM EDT by Mmanwitgun]

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?



screw that, I want to have the quickest access to my peice. A mugger will usually say "give me whats in your pockets" which gives you a chance to grab your peice and defend yourself. Unless they start saying, give my whats on your ankle, I'll pass.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:51:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?



screw that, I want to have the quickest access to my peice. A mugger will usually say "give me whats in your pockets" which gives you a chance to grab your peice and defend yourself. Unless they start saying, give my whats on your ankle, I'll pass.



Uh it's a BACK UP. That is what your primary carry gun is for.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:53:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?



screw that, I want to have the quickest access to my peice. A mugger will usually say "give me whats in your pockets" which gives you a chance to grab your peice and defend yourself. Unless they start saying, give my whats on your ankle, I'll pass.


I think he was asking for a backup gun ,so that would mean something to fall back on if his Para broke or ran out of ammo.If he needed his backup gun, he would have probably already been in the shit so going for his other gun would be about his only other choice.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:55:32 PM EDT
get a Seecamp,

it's worth the wait,

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:59:59 PM EDT
Colt goverment .380.

Its a half size 1911 thats proportional to a fullsize 1911 in .380.

Its the only colt I own and I wouldnt trade it for the world. Its a kitten to shoot and pack a lot of punch in a tiny stainless package. The govts and mustangs go for $1200 if you're not careful. I walked into mine for $90.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:00:00 PM EDT
... I'm in SoCal right now

... I cannot stand the fact that I can't carry legally

... I just flew my G/F home and she never even realized my nervousness about this but nevertheless, it sucks

... Who knows, I may become an outlaw some day after all
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:04:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ctprelude:

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?



screw that, I want to have the quickest access to my peice. A mugger will usually say "give me whats in your pockets" which gives you a chance to grab your peice and defend yourself. Unless they start saying, give my whats on your ankle, I'll pass.



Uh it's a BACK UP. That is what your primary carry gun is for.



I know hes looking for a backup, but if your gonna carry one it might as well be a pocket piece. After living in the slums I've realized the importance of pocket guns, infact these days I consider my G19 the back up for my P32.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:25:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
naa .22 mag revolver in a condom, kept in the colon.

hows that for deep concealment?




Yeah but the draw would be a bitch though
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:30:56 PM EDT
I'm torn between the Kahr P40 and the Kahr P45, they have the same capacity (6+1). The .45 is slightly thicker than the .40.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:46:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?



screw that, I want to have the quickest access to my peice. A mugger will usually say "give me whats in your pockets" which gives you a chance to grab your peice and defend yourself. Unless they start saying, give my whats on your ankle, I'll pass.



I dont know about you but I can fit a snub nose revolver in my pocket. Infact I do a ruger sp101 in a uncle mikes sidekick.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:02:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I'm trying to decide on a small pocket pistol for a back up to my Para Ord C7.45. I was looking at a NAA Guardian .380 at the gunshop and I think along those lines. Any thoughts or better ways to go...I don't want to go any smaller caliber wise.



That is the exact setup that I carry and it works for perfectly for me. The Guardian is a great backup pistol. The only other pistol you might want to look at is the KelTec .380 as it has a polymer frame and is a little bit lighter to carry.

I carry my Guardian is a left handed rear pocket holster, which offsets the Para that I carry on my strong side.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:13:43 PM EDT
The wifez0r has a Kahr PM9...wonderful little gun...and very little indeed. For my backup, I've got a NAA Guardian in .380 (made by Kahr). For jeans front-pocket carry with one of those wee little pocket holsters, I totally forget it's there all day long. For dress pants, the pocket moves a little, but still no problems. It's not as light as the Kel-tec..no doubt. But I'm quite pleased with the NAA. I haven't had any stoppages with either the Kahr or the NAA so far.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mic214:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I'm trying to decide on a small pocket pistol for a back up to my Para Ord C7.45. I was looking at a NAA Guardian .380 at the gunshop and I think along those lines. Any thoughts or better ways to go...I don't want to go any smaller caliber wise.



That is the exact setup that I carry and it works for perfectly for me. The Guardian is a great backup pistol. The only other pistol you might want to look at is the KelTec .380 as it has a polymer frame and is a little bit lighter to carry.

I carry my Guardian is a left handed rear pocket holster, which offsets the Para that I carry on my strong side.




I was thinking about a pocket holster....after watching a guy get his dental work kicked out reaching for a ankle holster it kind of turned me off on them.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:23:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Sig P232 in 380 is the best thing out there.



I forgot about the P232...I'll have to look at it again ...thx
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:30:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?



Not the ankle holster...but I really like the S&W 640 I had. I'm waitting for my 686 2inch to come back from customization....But it's goin to be the backup for the Para if something screws up on it for some reason.


I'm a freak and like to have two of everything...just in case
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:32:45 PM EDT
A makarov or a Raven .25
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:42:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?



screw that, I want to have the quickest access to my peice. A mugger will usually say "give me whats in your pockets" which gives you a chance to grab your peice and defend yourself. Unless they start saying, give my whats on your ankle, I'll pass.



I dont know about you but I can fit a snub nose revolver in my pocket. Infact I do a ruger sp101 in a uncle mikes sidekick.



I can fit my .38 in the pocket, but ctprelude was talking about an ankle holster setup
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:46:27 PM EDT
Smith and Wesson 642
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:53:33 PM EDT
Loved my Kahr MK9 except the weight. Now I really like my SW 642...but only as a second gun.

My wife's P-9 is crazy light.

The SW is smaller and thinner except the wheel...but that is less than two inches. Personally I think the gun and holter looks less obvious in my front pockets than my kahr looked.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:56:44 PM EDT
A friend of mine has a two shot, .44 magnum derringer that he carries loose (uncocked) in his pocket. I don't know how many shots you'll think you need, but I think it's pretty nifty.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:01:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:
A friend of mine has a two shot, .44 magnum derringer that he carries loose (uncocked) in his pocket. I don't know how many shots you'll think you need, but I think it's pretty nifty.



they make 45-70 derringers too, but they might be a little too rough on the hands.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:05:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:
A friend of mine has a two shot, .44 magnum derringer that he carries loose (uncocked) in his pocket. I don't know how many shots you'll think you need, but I think it's pretty nifty.




To bad I like to shot what I carry [and everything else]......44mag derringers are out.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:09:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:
A friend of mine has a two shot, .44 magnum derringer that he carries loose (uncocked) in his pocket. I don't know how many shots you'll think you need, but I think it's pretty nifty.




To bad I like to shot what I carry [and everything else]......44mag derringers are out.



I like to shoot his. I once shredded a target with the muzzle blast alone.

I have a little extra padding on the hands, and everywhere else for that matter, though. The recoil really doesn't bother me much.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:26:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:
A friend of mine has a two shot, .44 magnum derringer that he carries loose (uncocked) in his pocket. I don't know how many shots you'll think you need, but I think it's pretty nifty.




To bad I like to shot what I carry [and everything else]......44mag derringers are out.



I like to shoot his. I once shredded a target with the muzzle blast alone.

I have a little extra padding on the hands, and everywhere else for that matter, though. The recoil really doesn't bother me much.



Well Big_Louie...you way tougher then me.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:29:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ctprelude:
You thought about a snub nose revolver in an ankle holster as a backup?



Someone with brains wrote the above.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:30:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 10:32:28 PM EDT by Big_Louie]

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:
A friend of mine has a two shot, .44 magnum derringer that he carries loose (uncocked) in his pocket. I don't know how many shots you'll think you need, but I think it's pretty nifty.




To bad I like to shot what I carry [and everything else]......44mag derringers are out.



I like to shoot his. I once shredded a target with the muzzle blast alone.

I have a little extra padding on the hands, and everywhere else for that matter, though. The recoil really doesn't bother me much.



Well Big_Louie...you way tougher then me.



Not tougher, just fatter.

Built-in recoil pads.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:38:51 PM EDT
Kahr PM9---good, but pricey
Kel-tec .380---good
Bersa thunder .380---good, $200
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:53:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Sig P232 in 380 is the best thing out there.



Personally, I think the 230/232 is a little large and heavy for a pocket pistol.
For me, "pocket" implies carried holsterless, in the pocket.
Don't get me wrong, I have two SIGs and would love to justify a P232, but the KelTecs are light and much more compact. And cheap enough to throw in a river if necessary.

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:58:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 2:59:11 AM EDT by twonami]
I just bought a Kahr K40 and it's a cool little gun.
Not a single malfunction including my 200 round break-in period
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:03:20 AM EDT
Beretta 21A in .22 loaded w/ stingers.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:38:01 AM EDT
for an actual POCKET pistol, it'll be hard to beat the kel-tec p380...
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:44:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 3:46:02 AM EDT by HKTackDriver]
Well, having just gone through this, I found that there's nothing like a hammerless Airweight Smith & Wesson 442 in 38 Spec +P. I'll probably be buying a Guardian for summer duty though when the SW is a bit too bulky.

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:51:08 AM EDT
Kel-Tec P3AT. Santa brought me one 'cause I was a good boy!



Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:52:53 AM EDT
S&W 642



Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:13:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 4:15:58 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I was thinking about a pocket holster....after watching a guy get his dental work kicked out reaching for a ankle holster it kind of turned me off on them.



Pocket carry is, I believe, the best method of carrying a backup piece.

I personally pocket carry one of the below firearms as a backup:



Sometimes I carry them as a primary when I can't pack something more substantial.

The Glock 26 is pushing the limit of a pocket concealable firearm. Even a big guy like me with Royal Robins pants can't put anything bigger in a front pocket without it being obvious. As it is, the G26 in a Galco pocket holster looks like a square object, a bit like a PDA or something.

The 442, however, conceals very well. I use a DeSantis Nemesis holster for the 442 and it works like a charm. I personally like the small S&W revolvers because they can be loaded with ammunition that makes them superb defensive pieces. With the new 135 grain Speer Gold Dot +P loading specifically designed for these little revolvers, you don't really give up anything in terminal ballistics for the concealability of the weapons.

Revolvers are extremely reliable even with all the lint and crud that accumulates in a place like a pocket. They are most likely to go BANG when you need them to, an important consideration for a BUG. The little S&W revolvers have stiff triggers sometimes and their sights aren't the best, but that is true of all pocket eligible handguns. With practice, however, you CAN effectively use one at all handgun distances. I used mine to shoot the reactive steel range at Blackwater while I was there during a break in the day. It was slower and harder to do than using my 1911, but I was still able to effectively and quickly engage targets out to 20 yards with the little revolver without trouble. (And I am talking dead center hits on 6" plates with half second exposures here...)

I have handled the Kahr PM9 and it is a compact little piece, but I have not had the chance to evaluate one for reliability. It doesn't seem like it would be a very reliable piece by looking at it and handling it, but I will leave the reliability assesments to those who have actually tested them.

Frankly for a backup I would stick to a minimum of a +P capable .38 revolver. Guns purchased for strict BUG duty have a way of becoming a primary carry gun at times, so I think it is wise to carry as much gun as you can.

Small autopistols are appealing, but in my experience they are never very reliable. As a rule (and there are exceptions to every rule) they are the most likely to jam and the least likely to tolerate the conditions they will find themselves in. They are sensitve to how they are held, what type of ammunition is used, etc. Good little revolvers don't have those problems. (Except the inability to use lead bullets in the titanium and scandium S&W revolvers, but that really isn't a problem...)

When considering a backup weapon, consider the conditions under which you will be using it. Odds are that you will never need to pull out your primary weapon, and if you do, the odds are about 99% smaller that you will never have to pull the trigger.

If you do have to pull the trigger the odds of a malfunction on a decent modern handgun are smaller still. So if you need to whip out a backup piece you are already taking it up the tailpipe from Mr. Murphy. He isn't suddenly going to stop sodomizing you when you reach for the BUG, so make sure that you purchase a piece that Mr. Murphy can do very little to thwart.

Pocket carry of a BUG is one of my favorite ways because I can be walking around with my right hand casually in my pocket without people having any idea that I am gripping a weapon that I can pull out in a flash. A good tactical advantage that has come in handy on more than one occasion. There are numerous situations when I am packing a 1911 but because of the dynamics of the situation the BUG might be the primary weapon employed.

Just some things to consider.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:17:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HKTackDriver:
Well, having just gone through this, I found that there's nothing like a hammerless Airweight Smith & Wesson 442 in 38 Spec +P. I'll probably be buying a Guardian for summer duty though when the SW is a bit too bulky.

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/balzac72/Pistols048.jpg



I must ask:

What mode of dress are you in where the pictured S&W revolver would be too "bulky"? A thong?

I have yet to see an adult male or even an adult female that could not conceal a S&W 442 easily in even fairly tight summer dress.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:19:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Sig P232 in 380 is the best thing out there.



It's a bit too big for a pocket piece, in my opinion. Plus you are stuck with the .380 cartridge, which frankly is underpowered.
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