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Posted: 1/8/2006 5:40:33 PM EDT
I wish Chrysler would have chosen the Charger instead of the Challenger

Muscle Cars Make Comeback at Detroit Show
By DEE-ANN DURBIN
AP Auto Writer
Jan 8, 2006
hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AUTO_SHOW_MUSCLE_CARS?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
DETROIT (AP) -- Automakers will be flexing some muscle at this year's North American International Auto Show, with a slew of performance cars that harken back to the V-8-charged glory days of the 1960s and early '70s.

On Sunday, the first day of media previews, Ford Motor Co. planned to introduce the Ford Shelby GT500, a souped-up Mustang, and Chrysler Group planned to unveil the Dodge Challenger concept, a revamp of its 1970 model. Later in the show, General Motors Corp. will take the wraps off its Chevrolet Camaro concept.

Lamborghini is joining in, bringing out the Miura concept, an update of the 40-year-old supercar that was last produced in the early 1970s. And Hyundai Motor Corp. will have its HCD-9 Talus, the latest in a string of concept sports cars designed in the South Korean automaker's California studios.

But only Detroit automakers can lay claim to the tradition of muscle cars, the All-American vehicles that first appeared in the mid-1960s and faded out when the oil embargo and stricter pollution laws hit in the early 1970s. These are the cars made famous by the Dukes of Hazzard, who wreaked havoc in a 1969 Dodge Charger, and Steve McQueen, who raced around San Francisco in a 1968 Ford Mustang GT390 in the legendary chase scene from "Bullitt."

After years of focusing on sport utility vehicles, automakers were surprised by the popularity of the revamped Ford Mustang, which went on sale in the fall of 2004. U.S. sales of the Mustang rose 24 percent in 2005, according to Autodata Corp.

Erich Merkle, an auto analyst for the consulting firm IRN Inc., said Baby Boomer nostalgia is fueling the trend. Also, GM and Ford, who have been struggling with weak sales and U.S. market share losses, are eager to capitalize on something uniquely American.

"It's a place where the Japanese can't follow them. The Japanese couldn't do a Mustang. It wouldn't be credible," Merkle said.

The 2007 Ford Shelby GT500, in coupe and convertible versions, is the only one of the muscle cars at the Detroit show that is going on sale this year. Ford says the car will appear in showrooms in the summer of 2006.

The Shelby GT500 is the latest product from Ford's partnership with Carroll Shelby, a race-car driver turned designer who first began refashioning Mustangs in the 1960s.

The designers of the Dodge Challenger concept brought a 1970 Challenger into the studio for inspiration.

"For me, that car symbolizes the most passionate era of automotive design," Micheal Castiglione, principal exterior designer of the Challenger concept, said in a statement.

Chrysler hasn't said whether the concept will reach the market.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:41:44 PM EDT
SVT must be pissed that Shelby is getting credit for a car they designed.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:45:31 PM EDT
Now if only they can keep the prices down - muscle cars in the 60s didn't mean "JACK UP THE PRICE!"
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:47:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Now if only they can keep the prices down - muscle cars in the 60s didn't mean "JACK UP THE PRICE!"



I don't want any luxuries in the new prodution muscle car of my dreams.

I just want a big damn engine.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:49:09 PM EDT
I think the new challenger looks awesome
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:53:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Painter:
I think the new challenger looks awesome
img343.imageshack.us/img343/4685/challenger8fe.jpg



Had friends with Chargers, Challengers and Road Runners.......didn't like the Challengers, personal preference I guess
(I had Fords)
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:56:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Painter:
I think the new challenger looks awesome
img343.imageshack.us/img343/4685/challenger8fe.jpg




Holy Hell... if they release that thing... My '06 charger R/T hits the bircks.....
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:12:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:13:39 PM EDT by Painter]
I like all the old Mopars, but as far as a company reintroducing an old line, I think this Challenger is the shit


Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:34:33 PM EDT
Not much info in the article on the camaro, hope it makes it along with the chally
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:36:11 PM EDT
tag for more pics.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:39:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Not much info in the article on the camaro, hope it makes it along with the chally



New Camaro Thread
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:44:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Painter:
I like all the old Mopars, but as far as a company reintroducing an old line, I think this Challenger is the shit

img497.imageshack.us/img497/7121/challenger440b8xt.jpg
img343.imageshack.us/img343/4685/challenger8fe.jpg




[rant]Apparently, these fuckers feel the need to put yard-goddamn-wide wheels on every fucking vehicle they throw out though. [/rant]
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:48:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:50:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:50:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:55:32 PM EDT by AR-15Fan]
Here's the pics of the silver Camaro at Detriot, the red one in the other thread is a "push" car (not as finished, not a running car) at the LA show. In some of the earlier pics you can't see what a fastback design the car has, with big strong "shoulders" going on and a fairly rounded style to the rear. I think it's possibly the sweetest looking Camaro yet and I will be driving one, now if only they'll announce a strong push for a quick release...

Also as I was saying in the other thread, note the Challenger is a huge leadsled, it weighs over 4100 lbs, if the Camaro comes in under the 3600 lb weight of the GTO (seems likely) with at least the 400 hp LS2 that is in the concept car pictured it will dropkick the Challenger...

Pics:





Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:52:40 PM EDT
Will someone please post the GT500 mentioned in the original story?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:00:20 PM EDT
i plan to have my marriage debt paid off by the time these things hit the showroom..............and i can deal with ugly as HP is king to me, but damnit................

ATTENTION GM: if we wanted to drive ugly shit your fucking retro 40s pickup 'thing' would be flying off the showroom floor. buy a fucking clue.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:03:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
[rant]Apparently, these fuckers feel the need to put yard-goddamn-wide wheels on every fucking vehicle they throw out though. [/rant]



When you venture above 300 horses in these things you need serious rubber to keep from just spinning your wheels. Most will put some sort of electronic vechical dynamics control on them too to help with everyday driving. The VDC does have an on/off switch.




What I meant was the damn 20 and 22 and 24 inch wheels the bastards feel the need to throw on them. I understand what tire width can do for you, I drove an S10 with a 400 small block.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:08:15 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:08:40 PM EDT
I work in the automotive industry here in D-Troit, and May I just say.........

It's About Frickin' Time!


We (The gearheads & Car guys) have been asking/wondering/Telling the Car companies that this was what was/is wanted FOR YEARS!

We grew up with these things, and the "Muscle" cars of the past 20-30 years SUCK!

Every time someone (it's been other than the car companies) puts out a (Kinda') Muscle car....It sells like hotcakes!

Then nothing...or[Stupid Auto CEO] "Gee We don't know what to build for the public that might sell!"[/Stupid Auto CEO]

Here is the $1,000,000.00 plan:
Take the body lines/panels from the 60's-70's muscle care era.
Hang them on existing (Modern) chassis/running gear.
Re-introduce Chrome.

(You now have the look of the Real Muscle Cars, with the safety/reliability of the modern cars.)

Line pockets with Money from sales.

But, no.....It won't happen.

Chevy will soon bring out their "Muscle Car(s)" and then it will fade away.

If I only had a few million sitting around!

Tall Shadow
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:10:23 PM EDT
I feel Dodge will ruin the Challenger
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:12:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Will someone please post the GT500 mentioned in the original story?



SVT Cobra thats called a Shelby.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:13:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:
I feel Dodge will ruin the Challenger



IMHO they are close to doing it already. But then, I have a cuda and my dad has a challenger, so I am biased.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:15:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 8:16:50 PM EDT by The_Friendly_Sponge]
I think the Challanger looks sweet.

The Camaro, however, looks like the bastard child of a Chrysler product. I like the newer Chrysler products, so maybe the Camaro's lines will grow on me...
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:17:17 PM EDT
That car needs to be painted orange, with an "01" on the doors, and a Southern Cross on the roof. Awesome.

But it's sad that all these cool cars are coming out when gas is still too high.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:17:56 PM EDT
god that camaro look like ass
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:21:44 PM EDT
Did you notice the concept Challenger and concept Camaro have the same fugly rims and tires. Some company must be giving these away for free.

I was going to lay down 30k on a restored 70's Challenger but if the new one is decent I may have to rethink that.

Fritz
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:22:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By luger355:
god that camaro look like ass



Hey, its a bellybutton Camaro!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:24:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALLANJ:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Will someone please post the GT500 mentioned in the original story?



SVT Cobra thats called a Shelby.

bradbarnett.net/mustangs/shows/nyias05/wallpaper/5.jpg



Is the yellow one in the background with four headlights a mural or a car on a pedestal?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:25:16 PM EDT
Where's the Trans Am?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:26:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SUPERSPORT:
Where's the Trans Am?



+1
Last I heard they were getting rid of the Camaro and the Firebird and would only make Trans Ams
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:27:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SUPERSPORT:
Where's the Trans Am?



It's on blocks behind the trailer.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:38:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 8:45:34 PM EDT by AR-15Fan]

Originally Posted By SUPERSPORT:
Where's the Trans Am?



The Firebird is dead for the forseeable future. It is not coming back w/ the Camaro, and I bet it won't come back until the GTO is long gone. The GTO may be disappearing after 06 for at least a while, may be permanent, but probably not. Here's hoping though, I always liked the 'Birds...


BTW, here is a photoshopped "Yenko 427" Camaro. I think these new Camaro's look badass...

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:52:02 PM EDT
Do ya think the new Camaros will have the awesome longbow-like body flex of the previous generation?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:06:51 PM EDT
If you think either concept looks like shit, then your not a true gear head. if it has 400hp and a six speed I dont give a fuck what it looks like, its a bad ride.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:21:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By V-Rod:
If you think either concept looks like shit, then your not a true gear head. if it has 400hp and a six speed I dont give a fuck what it looks like, its a bad ride.



Good, I'm glad you're not impressed by aesthetics.

Rumor has it, this baby is about to ship with a 550hp. V8 and a 6spd gearbox....



Ready to break out that checkbook, gearhead??

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:24:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Good, I'm glad you're not impressed by aesthetics.

Rumor has it, this baby is about to ship with a 550hp. V8 and a 6spd gearbox....



Ready to break out that checkbook, gearhead??




I'll take it does it have NOS
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:25:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 9:27:27 PM EDT by AR-15Fan]

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Do ya think the new Camaros will have the awesome longbow-like body flex of the previous generation?



I'd be very surprised, supposed to get IRS rear and be significantly upgraded chassis compared to Camaros of old... My 85 and 86 IROC T-top Camaros were pretty bendy to say the least, but my 94 Z28 feels pretty good IMO anyway...

Here is a chassis CAD drawing leaked a few weeks ago that someone posted in the 09 Camaro Thread in the car and bike forum...

As I said there I think it's a modified Zeta chassis, not sure if that's accurate or if the production car would ride on this chassis (exact chassis is up in the air last I heard).

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:26:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By V-Rod:
If you think either concept looks like shit, then your not a true gear head. if it has 400hp and a six speed I dont give a fuck what it looks like, its a bad ride.



Good, I'm glad you're not impressed by aesthetics.

Rumor has it, this baby is about to ship with a 550hp. V8 and a 6spd gearbox....



Ready to break out that checkbook, gearhead??




Or how about this snazzy little number?

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:45:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By V-Rod:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Good, I'm glad you're not impressed by aesthetics.

Rumor has it, this baby is about to ship with a 550hp. V8 and a 6spd gearbox....



Ready to break out that checkbook, gearhead??




I'll take it does it have NOS



No, it's hot-beef injected.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:48:44 PM EDT
So let me get this right.

Gas prices are up, rising, and will probably remain relatively high or rise again next year.

And now Detroit decides its a good idea to come out with some muscle cars.

Geniuses. All of them.

And ppl here apoligize for them going bankrupt...
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:52:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By V-Rod:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Good, I'm glad you're not impressed by aesthetics.

Rumor has it, this baby is about to ship with a 550hp. V8 and a 6spd gearbox....



Ready to break out that checkbook, gearhead??




I'll take it does it have NOS



No, it's hot-beef injected.



That will make one hell of a sig line.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:53:45 PM EDT
Why is it that when looking at this photo,



I wonder if that is a ram air scoop, or something that should have lights cycling back and forth...

I'll probably be like everyone else and say it looks like shit, then start drooling at the first one I see on the road.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:01:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
So let me get this right.

Gas prices are up, rising, and will probably remain relatively high or rise again next year.

And now Detroit decides its a good idea to come out with some muscle cars.

Geniuses. All of them.

And ppl here apoligize for them going bankrupt...



And all of them probably get better mileage than the average full size SUV

Get a clue, these are low volume, high profit cars, staus symbols to sit in the showrooms along side neons, focuses and malibus.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:08:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 10:14:03 PM EDT by AR-15Fan]

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
So let me get this right.

Gas prices are up, rising, and will probably remain relatively high or rise again next year.

And now Detroit decides its a good idea to come out with some muscle cars.

Geniuses. All of them.

And ppl here apoligize for them going bankrupt...



And all of them probably get better mileage than the average full size SUV

Get a clue, these are low volume, high profit cars, staus symbols to sit in the showrooms along side neons, focuses and malibus.



Ain't that the truth. The LS1/LS2 family of GM V8s put down HP numbers all but the very hairiest of late 60s beasts could ever touch, are low emissions status capable, and get 18+ mpg city ratings and 28+ mpg highway mileage while still having aggressive rearend gear ratios (good hwy mileage thanks in large part to 6spd trannies with a good overdrive). This is wayyyyy better than most run of the mill SUVs and pickups get today... It's not much worse than most average output V6 family-ish cars in fact.

Hell I believe the 427 cubic inch, 505hp LS7 in the new Z06 is rated at 16/26 mpg if memory serves. That's mid 11 second quarter mile capable with the ability to get gas mileage on the highway that's quite acceptable...

GM is doing this without displacement on demand too, so there's room for improvement. What will be pretty interesting is some kind of performance oriented hybrid or something in the future, may be quite surprised at what's possible shortly...

And in reality $2.50 for gas is still cheap...
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:23:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:


And all of them probably get better mileage than the average full size SUV

Get a clue, these are low volume, high profit cars, staus symbols to sit in the showrooms along side neons, focuses and malibus.



I'll park that clue right next to the LS1 Camaro in the garage. Indeed GM can build a 300+ hp car with decent fuel economy. I still think the market for cars requiring premium fuel and burning it at 25 mpg is going to be weak compared to cars that will run on 87 octane and get 40+ mpg.

They may be low volume, but high profit? All of that expense for engineering and design surely will eat at the bottom line.

Those Malibus and Impalas aren't profitable enough to save GM. Sales are up but revenue down due to discounting and rebates. Truck sales should slide down as prices go up.

Chevy SSR. Ford Thunderbird. Plymouth Prowler. All overpriced pieces of trash. At least this new round of image cars can back up thier looks. However I have to question whether that engineering and design talent wouldn't have been better spent in their key markets, ones that will actually fatten the bottom line.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:29:14 PM EDT
They should make exact replicas of the old body styles and use modern technology on the frames and drivetrain (as long as they don't pussify he engine) and give them a badass interior.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:35:28 PM EDT
Here are my thoughts of the recent "muscle cars"

Ford Mustang - Looks good, the new front pays a tribute to the car of old. Good power, well balanced and overall the styling looks nice... modern, but you can tell what inspired it.

Camaro - WTF? The thing has way too many points and jags and peaks. It looks like it wants to be the bat mobile, but falls short. If the LS2 rumor is true it should be able to rock you though

Dodge Charger - four doors?!?!?!?! You bring back one of the most known names in musclecars and turn it into a grocery getter with a HEMI. They have found a good market though... its perfect for those in a mid-life crisis, I want a fast car, but I have to pick my kids up from school. Overall, the lines just don't do it for me either.

Challeger - from that pic, the best done one so far. If they don't nuter the drivetrain, this will be the one to get. The lines are plain classic, and run very nicely. Looks like something that could have come out of the 70's.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:41:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rwinn625:
They should make exact replicas of the old body styles and use modern technology on the frames and drivetrain (as long as they don't pussify he engine) and give them a badass interior.



That would be awesome
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:45:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By rwinn625:
They should make exact replicas of the old body styles and use modern technology on the frames and drivetrain (as long as they don't pussify he engine) and give them a badass interior.



That would be awesome



I've been saying that for years. Wanna sell the past? How about recreating it instead of just paying lip service to it.

We ALL want real muscle, classic looks, and performance without the flimsy, computer controlled impossible to fix modern shit.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:46:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By rwinn625:
They should make exact replicas of the old body styles and use modern technology on the frames and drivetrain (as long as they don't pussify he engine) and give them a badass interior.



That would be awesome



I've been saying that for years. Wanna sell the past? How about recreating it instead of just paying lip service to it.

We ALL want real muscle, classic looks, and performance without the flimsy, computer controlled impossible to fix modern shit.



Amen.
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