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Posted: 8/6/2001 4:47:11 PM EDT
While I am sure all of us know the importance of shot placement, I think this month's issue of SOF has an interesting reminder of how important this is ("Fight For Life", pages 62-65). In short, a "Good Samaritan" was attacked by the hitchhikers he had brought home. He was able to draw a Ruger Blackhawk chambered for the .44 Magnum and shoot one of the attackers. The attacker was hit with a 240gr hollowpoint, and the bullet passed through his lung, diaphram and liver before the attacker: "...[ran] out of the house and along my porch with the [other attackers who were fleeing the armed Samaritan]. He ran around behind the house and tried to jump a barbedwire fence and got tangled up and fell on the otherside into a dry irrigation ditch. The paramedics found him setting [sic] there in a pool of his own blood some 30 minutes later." The attacker lived and is now facing charges. While some key details are missing I will presume: -Based on the picture of where the bullet entered a short bookcase after passing through the attacker, and the description of the wound, the attacker was probably "gut-shot", i.e. no bones were hit, thus no secondary fragmentation. -medical attention to the attacker was minimal for the 30 minute period Please do not take this as an attempt to start a "light/fast" vs. "heavy/slow" thread or an attempt to bash any caliber, just a real-life reminder of the need for COM hits, regardless of caliber. I think everyone would view the .44 Magnum as a ample self-defense round, yet here is a documented case of someone surviving a serious wound to the thorax, even with the complication of am fairly lengthy time away from professional medical attention.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 4:54:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:11:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:19:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: Most likely went straight through with minimal expansion. mike
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Thought so too, but the picture shows where the lead core impacted and where the "dislocated jacket" penetrated, which was approximately 6" low to the 7 o'clock. FWIW
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:22:37 PM EDT
I thought Larry Flint got shot with a shot gun? I thought it was a light bird shot at close range.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:29:14 PM EDT
Shot placement is definately important, my friend James was killed this past week by 2 shots to the chest by a .22 handgun (I dunno what kind yet), and he had almost immediate medical attention. The paper quoted the paramedics as saying "where he was shot, he didn't have a chance". He probably got it in the heart, which will shut you down as quick as a .44.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:10:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2001 8:30:00 PM EDT by Sukebe]
Of course shot placement is critical as is the mind set of the person being shot. Example; While investigating a complaint of crack being sold at an apartment we knocked on the door, a voice from inside asked "who is it?" first in line says "police we'd like to talk to you" voice from inside says in a very sarcastic way "well come on in" officer first in line opened the door and there was a crack head standing about 7 feet into the apt. with a loaded S&W model 10 .38spl. in a modified weaver stance pointing at the door. The officer got off one shot from an S&W 4506 with 230 grn Hydrashok's and hit the crack head in the left(support) for arm just above the wrist. He went down like he thought he was dead although the wound was superficial and he still had the potential to fight if he had been determined. Interestingly we found the bullet completely expanded on the floor at his feet. The radius(?) bone in his forearm was so dense the bullet lost all it's energy passing through it and fell at his feet. Remarkable to me as this was the first shooting that I had witnessed first hand. The point is two fold,(1)even from a proven man stopper a poorly placed shot can give your adversary the opportunity to kill you and bullets don't always penetrate the way you think they will (2) A person who is not seriously wounded may still be out of action because he reacts the way he thinks a person should when they are shot(They fall down on T.V. when they are shot right?). If you have to shoot keep shooting until the aggressive behavior stops, if you are shot keep fighting and win at all costs. Never quit no matter how badly you are wounded.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:27:49 PM EDT
I'd say shot placement is the single most important issue. I have no experience at the shooting of 2 legged critters, but some experience on hunting four legged game. Nothing is worse than wounded game running off on you. When defending ones self from bad humans the goal is to stop the attack and the sooner the better. You have to have a good hit or a pumped up bad guy will keep coming, you shoot untill he/she stops the attack. I would say our "friend" with the 44 got lucky, you shoot me with a 44 and if it doesn't kill me, you had better be driving away at a high rate of speed!
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:37:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:57:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RYANG: ..... my friend James was killed this past week by 2 shots to the chest by a .22 handgun ......
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Sir: My condolences on the loss of you friend and my sympathies to you and his family. SRM
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:43:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:28:16 PM EDT
Shot placement is vital. 98% of gunshot wounds that are not immediately fatal are survivable. I was in a very interesting class where the instructor opined that the drop in the murder rate during the 90s was not due to any special or new crimefighting technique, because the rate of assault with weapons remained constant. His theory was that trauma medicine had advanced so much since the 70s and 80s, that people were routinely surviving what would have been fatal wounds a decade before. Good training doesn't just emphasize shot placement, though. It also emphasizing taking a hit and still fighting. If you are hit and are still around to realize it, you most likely are going to live, as long as you don't give the other guy the opportunity to get you.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:39:54 PM EDT
There is no question in my mind, shot placement is critical. But, it's not the only factor in an effective shot. I think 2 different people shot in the exact same manner, will react differently... I don't know this for a fact with people, but I DO know for a fact, animals will. My first time deer hunting (Fall-'86) I shot a 6-point buck right behind the shoulder blade from 50 yards away, with a .30-06. He jumped 3 feet in the air and ran about 50 feet before dropping over. The shot was textbook perfect, yet he didn't go down right away... NOTE: BULLET PASSED THROUGH DEER (1 shot & 2 holes) Just this last Fall('00) I shot a HUGE 8-point buck from about 30-yards, in the exact same vital area, with another .30-06. This time the deer dropped right in his tracks, never even flinched. I think he was dead before he hit the ground. This deer probably outweighed the first one by 75 pounds, yet he never took a step... NOTE: NO EXIT WOUND (1 shot & 1 hole) ...Maybe it was the 180grain Winchester "failsafe" bullet that did it... (1st deer was hit wth a 165grain Federal Premium) SO, with that said, I think bullet design is as important as shot placement... Just my $.02
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