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Posted: 1/7/2006 10:12:09 AM EDT
I am shooting yesterdya and notice a guy with a nice looking m14. I wander on down and say hiya and hey nice rifle. His immediate reply was" I was a sniper in Vietnam, I carried one of these there,As a spotter we carried these and the sniper carried the Remington bolt action".
I do not know or honestly care what the guy did in Vietnam. I know what my dad did and for years as a kid he would never really talk about anything except for stuff he did on base or on R and R. I do have pictures of him carrying a pump 12 gauge of some kind.
My question is what did our snipers in vietnam carry? I know they always worked in teams, why haven't I ever read about Carlos Hathcock's partner?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:15:02 AM EDT


BTW: Spotters usually carried M14's or in some cases M16's
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:21:34 AM EDT
Well they didn't carry the Rem 700 IIRC, I don't think it was made back then, but they did use M14's and Winchester Mod70's

Try reading Peter Senich's book "The Long Range War" (Sniping in Veitnam)

Mark
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:23:32 AM EDT
I don't think the first words out of ANYONE'S mouth that was in Vietnam were ever "I was in Vietnam". Could be wrong.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:29:02 AM EDT
Mod 70's for the snipers for the most part, didn't some of them use some scoped 1903A3's early on?

OT: Iraq's snipers are going to make for some great books. The shear volume of kills and the urban environment will make for some great reading.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:30:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 10:30:28 AM EDT by vengarr]
lol they literally were" I was a sniper in Vietnam, I carried one of these" not something like, "Hey thanks "or" yeah I like it"
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:38:35 AM EDT
Gunny Hathcock's first partner was KIA after Gunny returned to the states. I'm a bit fuzzy on details, and can't remember his name , and am too lazy to get off my ass and walk across the room and look through the book.

Gunny Hathcock carried a bedded Winchester Model 70 target model in .30-06 for his first tour. Later tours I believe it was a Model 70, could have been Rem. Model 700, in .308. His spotters also carried the M14. That way they could share ammo in a royal SHTF situation.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:43:52 AM EDT
I think I remember reading towards the latter half of the war, somewhere around 68 or 69 on, some were issued the Remington. I think I remember reading in Carlos Hathcock's biography, Marine Sniper, that they tested the Model 70, Remington(coulda swore it was the 700) and others and the Remington won out. I know in the book Hatchcock was said to have carried a Model 70 and his spotter on his 1st tour, Burke, did carry an M14.

I remember in the last part of the book when he came back for a second tour, he took charge of a sniper platoon to get into shape and actually be used and it said something about him being suprised the Remingtons were not there.

Like everyone has said though, most people I know personally that did serve in Vietnam do not just spout it off after the first word is said in the conversation. Maybe he has been holding his story in for 40 years and finally wants to tell someone one though?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:49:43 AM EDT
Did he try to sell you any beef jerky?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:51:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 10:52:03 AM EDT by david_g17]

Originally Posted By DougH9:
Did he try to sell you any beef jerky porcelain dolphin figurines?



fixed (for the gun shows i've been to).
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:29:14 AM EDT
I think just about everyone in camo at the gun range or a show is either a Vietnam sniper, former Navy SEAL, or space shuttle door gunner.

And on drugs.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:47:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
Gunny Hathcock's first partner was KIA after Gunny returned to the states. I'm a bit fuzzy on details, and can't remember his name , and am too lazy to get off my ass and walk across the room and look through the book.

Gunny Hathcock carried a bedded Winchester Model 70 target model in .30-06 for his first tour. Later tours I believe it was a Model 70, could have been Rem. Model 700, in .308. His spotters also carried the M14. That way they could share ammo in a royal SHTF situation.



His name was Burke.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:22:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 12:23:28 PM EDT by eddiein1984]

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
I think just about everyone in camo at the gun range or a show is either a Vietnam sniper, former Navy SEAL, or space shuttle door gunner.

And on drugs.



What a coincidence. I met a sweatpants-wearing, gut hanging out of his field jacket, blowhard ex-Navy Seal at the range last week. His post-ban DPMS carbine "came with him" when he retired.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:55:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By absit:
I don't think the first words out of ANYONE'S mouth that was in Vietnam were ever "I was in Vietnam". Could be wrong.



You should meet this clown I work with . He was in Vietnam and makes sure that everyone
knows it . He was a Marine , ( and makes sure everbody knows that too ) and repaired electronics .
The problem is that he also claims to have been to sniper school , led men in battle , calibrated all of the " new radar systems " on the Carriers , etc. , etc. He is an embarrasment to the Corps .
I have found that the guys that have been there and done that , are the ones that talk about it the least .
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:57:59 PM EDT
I met a guy the other day who was a lurp and sas in vietnam. I told him he was full of shit and quit disgracing the armed forces with his bullshit.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:12:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LRRPS:

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
Gunny Hathcock's first partner was KIA after Gunny returned to the states. I'm a bit fuzzy on details, and can't remember his name , and am too lazy to get off my ass and walk across the room and look through the book.

Gunny Hathcock carried a bedded Winchester Model 70 target model in .30-06 for his first tour. Later tours I believe it was a Model 70, could have been Rem. Model 700, in .308. His spotters also carried the M14. That way they could share ammo in a royal SHTF situation.



His name was Burke.



Yes. Thank you. I knew I would know it as soon as I saw it, just couldn't recall it when I posted.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:16:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 4:18:18 PM EDT by kindstranger]
True story:

One of my backpacking buddies' told me that his brother was a SEAL. I had never met him. My friend was also former Navy as were his friends, his father, uncles, etc...

Anyhoo, some months later, this really FAT lard type ass showed up to the local range on a Kawasaki 650 dual sport bike.

He shot his 45 and CAR-15 a little bit. I mentioned that it was cool that his CAR-15 fit in his backpack and he could just motor down when ever he wanted. He went on that they used those motorcycles when he was in the SEALs, and that was a standard way to get around where ever they were stationed.

My BS meter was going off big time.

Anyhoo, some time after that, I was at said friend's apartment when the large individual of gun range fame walks in. It was my friends' brother
We were introduced, he recognized me, I recognized him... Remembering our previous conversation about out mutual interests in Ars and dual sport motorcycles, he goes into his room and returns with a photo album. Pictures from all over the world alot of him on a militarized KLR650 with a CAR-15 slung over his shoulder.

BTW, he likes beef jerkey too.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:30:40 PM EDT
Shit, I was a Vietnam sniper! I remember during the Battle of the Bulge I was the only thing holding back hordes of Chinese soldiers with my .303. I was also there during the Tet Offensive of '51. That was some pretty hairy shit.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:35:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
Shit, I was a Vietnam sniper! I remember during the Battle of the Bulge I was the only thing holding back hordes of Chinese soldiers with my .303. I was also there during the Tet Offensive of '51. That was some pretty hairy shit.



That was you at the Battle of the Bulge! How ya been buddy ? I was providing you cover fire with the Apache gunship at 50,000 ft.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:08:06 PM EDT
Maybe he was jus talking shit cuz he didnt wanna be bothered. Gotta luv public ranges.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:18:00 PM EDT
what range vengarr
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:19:31 PM EDT
Late in the Vietnam War Army Snipers carried a Match Grade M14 outfitted with a night scope.

In the beginning some Marines carried an M1C others carried Winchester Model 70's (sometimes they were their own personal hunting rifles).

The USMC chose the Remington 700 over the Winchester Model 70 because Winchester made changes to the Model 70 in 1964 which resulted in a cost savings for Winchester at the same time reduced accuracy and reliability.

Also with the Remington it was easier to bed the action.

Marine Spotters carried an M14 to protect the sniping team in case they were detected and came under fire.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:22:26 PM EDT
so, how well did he shoot?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:23:04 PM EDT
One day at the range I met and shot with a old Korean ROK soldier. He was still pretty good with his M1 Carbine.

I didn't ask him anything about Wars, we just mostly talked about the M1 and M2 Carbines.

Very nice guy.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:24:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Mod 70's for the snipers for the most part, didn't some of them use some scoped 1903A3's early on?

OT: Iraq's snipers are going to make for some great books. The shear volume of kills and the urban environment will make for some great reading.



They already are, several out there.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:39:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LRRPS:

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
Gunny Hathcock's first partner was KIA after Gunny returned to the states. I'm a bit fuzzy on details, and can't remember his name , and am too lazy to get off my ass and walk across the room and look through the book.

Gunny Hathcock carried a bedded Winchester Model 70 target model in .30-06 for his first tour. Later tours I believe it was a Model 70, could have been Rem. Model 700, in .308. His spotters also carried the M14. That way they could share ammo in a royal SHTF situation.



His name was Burke.

John Burke. After Carlos left nam the first time he was assigned as a sniper squad leader in the first battalion 26th Marines in Khe Sanh in 1967. At the outset of a sapper attack several of his men were wounded and Burke dragged them all into a bunker. As soon as they were all safe, he picked up an M-16 and began slowly picking off sappers as they showed themselves. Another grenade blast wounded him in the hip but wounded another Marine about 30 feet away, as he was carrying the Marine he heard another incoming RPG and threw the unconscience marine down and covered him with his own body, he sustained severe shrapenel wounds this time but dragged the other marine to cover. He was wounded by a third grenade while pulling another marine to safetly after this. He was literally bleeding from every limb, his face, chest, stomach and back. He hung a bunch of grenades on his belt grabbed an M-16 and charged the wire. He was firing with his left hand and throwing grenades with his right. His actions broke the attack and the VC retreated. A year later he was posthumosly awarded the navy cross by direction of President Johnson for his actions that night.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:58:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kindstranger:
True story:

One of my backpacking buddies' told me that his brother was a SEAL. I had never met him. My friend was also former Navy as were his friends, his father, uncles, etc...

Anyhoo, some months later, this really FAT lard type ass showed up to the local range on a Kawasaki 650 dual sport bike.

He shot his 45 and CAR-15 a little bit. I mentioned that it was cool that his CAR-15 fit in his backpack and he could just motor down when ever he wanted. He went on that they used those motorcycles when he was in the SEALs, and that was a standard way to get around where ever they were stationed.

My BS meter was going off big time.

Anyhoo, some time after that, I was at said friend's apartment when the large individual of gun range fame walks in. It was my friends' brother
We were introduced, he recognized me, I recognized him... Remembering our previous conversation about out mutual interests in Ars and dual sport motorcycles, he goes into his room and returns with a photo album. Pictures from all over the world alot of him on a militarized KLR650 with a CAR-15 slung over his shoulder.

BTW, he likes beef jerkey too.


So was he in the teams, or just had a green bike with cool backgrounds?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:27:46 PM EDT
Knob creek.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:38:50 PM EDT
I was a sniper in Nam. I was in country at 8 years old and racked up some impressive numbers.

After they found out how young I was they burned all the records, kicked me out and put me back in grade school.

That's the breaks I guess.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:39:23 PM EDT
That's a pretty funny thing to have happen. I know I'd be taken off gaurd by that.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:44:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
or space shuttle door gunner.


ROTFLMAO! I'm gonna use that one.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:54:11 PM EDT
why are you so obsesed with wannabes?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:56:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deathdealer1488:
why are you so obsesed with wannabes?



Don't worry about them. They're more obsessed with spelling.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:58:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 12:01:50 AM EDT by LashLaRue]
Steve Suttles was one of my sniper instructors and I had no idea about his Vietnam history til I did alittle research after the school. He never mentioned a word about it but he did know his stuff.
There are still some out there that are the real thing.


Link Posted: 1/8/2006 12:22:16 AM EDT
I have met a few actual snipers from Vietnam. When I first met them there first words out of there mouth wasnt " I was a sniper in Vietnam." After I got to know them we would starting talking about Vietnam and they would tell me what they did.
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