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Posted: 1/7/2006 8:51:35 AM EDT
Driver charged with DWAI after fatal crash

By MATT LEON

Updated: 1/5/2006 10:53:52 PM


SARATOGA SPRINGS -- A Saratoga Springs man was charged with driving under the influence of marijuana after his car crossed the center line on Route 9 and struck two cars Thursday morning, resulting in the death of a 33-year-old woman
, police said.

Melanie O'Donnell, of 55 Birch St., died at Albany Medical Center on Thursday evening as a result of serious head injuries, authorities said.

Saratoga County District Attorney James Murphy III spent much of the day at the hospital with O'Donnell's family. Her mother, Vicki Merola, is a crime victim advocate in his office.

"This is a woman who has dedicated her life's work to helping victims and now has the unthinkable happen to a member of her family, her daughter," Murphy said. "It's the ultimate tragedy."

O'Donnell was the mother of a 2-year-old son named Kennan.

The crash happened shortly after 7 a.m. on Route 9 just south of the Weathervane restaurant when Christopher N. McNally's northbound vehicle crossed the center line of the road, police said.

O'Donnell was in the passenger side of a car being driven by her husband, George, when they were struck by the partially-airborne Subaru of the 34-year-old McNally.

George O'Donnell, 37, was treated for cuts and bruises at Albany Medical Center and released.

McNally's vehicle also collided with a car being driven by Christina Myers of Watervliet and a vehicle whose driver was not injured.

Myers, 26, was transported to Saratoga Hospital for treatment of minor leg and hip injuries.

McNally, of 143 Church St., was charged with driving while ability impaired by drugs, a misdemeanor, and is in police custody at Albany Medical Center. He is being treated for a shoulder injury.

Murphy said it is possible that McNally could face more serious charges pending the result of toxicology tests.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:53:36 AM EDT
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:54:44 AM EDT
Good.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:00:05 AM EDT
Blood results will show there is more in his system than pot. I put a guy away for being on four percocets. He was so hammered that he couldnt even stand. No booze, just pills, never seen such an impaired driver before in my life.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:12:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AWACER:
Blood results will show there is more in his system than pot. I put a guy away for being on four percocets. He was so hammered that he couldnt even stand. No booze, just pills, never seen such an impaired driver before in my life.



FOUR percocets? Good lord. Surprised he was still conscious.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:14:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By AWACER:
Blood results will show there is more in his system than pot. I put a guy away for being on four percocets. He was so hammered that he couldnt even stand. No booze, just pills, never seen such an impaired driver before in my life.



FOUR percocets? Good lord. Surprised he was still conscious.




When I'd ask him a question he would look at me like he was going to think about an answer and just pass out each time.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:15:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AWACER:
Blood results will show there is more in his system than pot.



I suspect you are right. Polydrug use is the norm and someone that uses just one drug, and no others, is rare.

Hell I use three; Caffiene, nicotiene and alcohol.

I stopped a 16yo driver who took 12 Soma one night. Her pulse was 158BPM, pale, sweating, trembling, with really low BP. She was planning to go home and sleep it off. (she never would have woke up).
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:17:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By AWACER:
Blood results will show there is more in his system than pot.



I suspect you are right. Polydrug use is the norm and someone that uses just one drug, and no others, is rare.

Hell I use three; Caffiene, nicotiene and alcohol.

I stopped a 16yo driver who took 12 Soma one night. Her pulse was 158BPM, pale, sweating, trembling, with really low BP. She was planning to go home and sleep it off. (she never would have woke up).




These damn stupid kids scare the hell out of me and to think that I'm going to be the new school resource officer in the middle school Monday, geez.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:21:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



I know this has been posted so many times that others will be moaning in pain at seeing it again but . . . . in case you were the one person left out:

The sum of the research is that the worst impairment of marijuana that they can determine in laboratory studies is that -- in experienced users -- the impairment caused by marijuana gets up to about the equivalent of .08 blood alcohol. That is, borderline drunk.

In any event, there is no way to objectively prove impairment after the fact. You can determine from testing whether someone has taken marijuana some time in the last thirty days or so. You cannot determine from a blood test or urine test that someone is currently stoned, or that the marijuana caused the accident. The correlation just isn't there. Someone can smoke hemp and suffer no impairment and their blood and urine tests will be the same as someone who smoked the best of the best.

There is no evidence that marijuana is a significant factor in auto crashes across the US.

The most likely explanation, as others have stated, is that he was taking something else along with it. If he looked like he was drunk, but didn't test drunk, then PCP, barbiturates, and similar drugs would be a good bet.

In the end though, it doesn't matter what drug or drugs it was. Obviously the guy went on the road when he was apparently impaired by something. He hurt someone in the process so hang his ass. I would feel the same way whether he took alcohol, heroin, marijuana, or just too many cold pills.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:28:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By AWACER:
Blood results will show there is more in his system than pot.



I suspect you are right. Polydrug use is the norm and someone that uses just one drug, and no others, is rare.

Hell I use three; Caffiene, nicotiene and alcohol.

I stopped a 16yo driver who took 12 Soma one night. Her pulse was 158BPM, pale, sweating, trembling, with really low BP. She was planning to go home and sleep it off. (she never would have woke up).



If you are going to give up any drugs, nicotine would be the place to start.

Kids do some really stupid things. They had a segment on 20/20 one night about a campaign in some town to ban some kind of common over the counter pill. Why? Because some kids had been taking them to stay awake. They weren't just taking two or three pills, mind you -- they were taking a couple of boxes of pills at a time -- like 25 to 50. The whole thing came to their parents' attention when one of the girls wound up in the ER after taking 175 of them.

The question that comes to mind is what do you do about it? It would seem to me that even a teenager should have enough knowledge of the world to figure out that 175 of anything is going to land you in the ER.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:23:25 PM EDT
hahaha this reminds me of one of the funniest conversations Ive ever heard

Me and my friends are stopped at a gas station. I run in to buy some stuff. I come back out and they are all outside standing around smoking. I come in and hear the end of the conversation. Guy one is probably 17 scrawny white guy with red hair looking like an afro.

Guy 1- "man I am still cant believe I got a DUI because I was high"

My Friend- " dude you ripped the nozzle out of the gas pump"

Guy 1- "yeah"

My Friend- " and then you didnt even stop to take it out of your car"

My Friend- " And then you went to Burger king, because you knew you were going to go to jail"

Guy 1- " Man they didnt even let me keep the nozzle....And they still have my pipe in evidence"
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:27:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USGI_45:
hahaha this reminds me of one of the funniest conversations Ive ever heard

Me and my friends are stopped at a gas station. I run in to buy some stuff. I come back out and they are all outside standing around smoking. I come in and hear the end of the conversation. Guy one is probably 17 scrawny white guy with red hair looking like an afro.

Guy 1- "man I am still cant believe I got a DUI because I was high"

My Friend- " dude you ripped the nozzle out of the gas pump"

Guy 1- "yeah"

My Friend- " and then you didnt even stop to take it out of your car"

My Friend- " And then you went to Burger king, because you knew you were going to go to jail"

Guy 1- " Man they didnt even let me keep the nozzle....And they still have my pipe in evidence"




Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:33:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



And what of the millions of people driving high everyday that dont wreck?
Or should we say because 1 gun is used in 1 crime, all guns are bad?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:35:37 PM EDT
I've had a wreck cause I was stoned. It's what turned my life around. It changed who I was forever. I'm glad it happened. Anyone that thinks pot doesn't impair your driving abilities is a fucking moron.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:38:33 PM EDT
He must have been flying if he got his car partially airborne on RT 9 by the Weathervane.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:40:54 PM EDT
Howabout you NOT DRIVE IMPAIRED. Have a 104 degree fever, hallucinations, and are tanked up on Nyquil? You have no business being behind the wheel of a car. 4 beers in an hour? You have no business behind the wheel of a car.

I don't care if you want to catch a buzz huffing gasoline--but stay THE FUCK off the road. That goes for you cell phone jabberers as well. Read the newspaper in traffic? You are an impaired driver, and a hazard to navigation.

Shave, read the paper, cook eggs and bacon, comb your hair, change your clothes, jerk off like a fucking chimp at the zoo, but don't fucking do it while you are piloting 2500 pounds of steel at 65 miles an hour.

Fuck!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:12:55 PM EDT
we all know every trace of mj in somebody's system is from smoking 30 days ago
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:13:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



And what of the millions of people driving high everyday that dont wreck?
Or should we say because 1 gun is used in 1 crime, all guns are bad?



Please. How many experienced drunk drivers are on the road that don't get caught and don't get in wrecks. Your logic is flawed. MILLIONS of people each day driving high? Sounds like quite the exaggeration.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:17:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



And what of the millions of people driving high everyday that dont wreck?
Or should we say because 1 gun is used in 1 crime, all guns are bad?



Please. How many experienced drunk drivers are on the road that don't get caught and don't get in wrecks. Your logic is flawed. MILLIONS of people each day driving high? Sounds like a conservative estimate quite the exaggeration.



Fixed it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:20:43 PM EDT

The sum of the research is that the worst impairment of marijuana that they can determine in laboratory studies is that -- in experienced users -- the impairment caused by marijuana gets up to about the equivalent of .08 blood alcohol.
- I see you throw this out every time a thread on dope and driving comes up. Let me ask you this. What is an "expereinced" pot smoker? Also, if their levels only come to .08, how about an inexpereinced user? Would their level of impairment be higher or lower?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:20:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Howabout you NOT DRIVE IMPAIRED. Have a 104 degree fever, hallucinations, and are tanked up on Nyquil? You have no business being behind the wheel of a car. 4 beers in an hour? You have no business behind the wheel of a car.

I don't care if you want to catch a buzz huffing gasoline--but stay THE FUCK off the road. That goes for you cell phone jabberers as well. Read the newspaper in traffic? You are an impaired driver, and a hazard to navigation.

Shave, read the paper, cook eggs and bacon, comb your hair, change your clothes, jerk off like a fucking chimp at the zoo, but don't fucking do it while you are piloting 2500 pounds of steel at 65 miles an hour.

Fuck!




Sure.... piss on my job security....

<­BR>


j/k
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:30:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 7:30:38 PM EDT by Fly-Navy]

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Howabout you NOT DRIVE IMPAIRED. Have a 104 degree fever, hallucinations, and are tanked up on Nyquil? You have no business being behind the wheel of a car. 4 beers in an hour? You have no business behind the wheel of a car.

I don't care if you want to catch a buzz huffing gasoline--but stay THE FUCK off the road. That goes for you cell phone jabberers as well. Read the newspaper in traffic? You are an impaired driver, and a hazard to navigation.

Shave, read the paper, cook eggs and bacon, comb your hair, change your clothes, jerk off like a fucking chimp at the zoo, but don't fucking do it while you are piloting 2500 pounds of steel at 65 miles an hour.

Fuck!



Exactly. For the pot smokers here, this isn't a discussion on the legalization of pot. It's a discussion about whether or not you have any business operating a vehicle while under the influence of a substance. You shouldn't be driving drunk, you shouldn't be driving on medication, you shouldn't be driving after staying up for 2 days straight, and you sure as fuck shouldn't be driving after smoking a joint. COMPRENDE?

You. Have. No. Business. Driving. Stoned.

Your rationalization is the same rationalization that "experienced" drunks make when they get behind the wheel. Give it a rest.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:37:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



Its not much real difference than alcohol, and we havent banned that yet, oh wait, we did, and it didnt work out too well.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:43:18 PM EDT
I don't care what the idiot was on. Burn the f*cker.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:51:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

The sum of the research is that the worst impairment of marijuana that they can determine in laboratory studies is that -- in experienced users -- the impairment caused by marijuana gets up to about the equivalent of .08 blood alcohol.
- I see you throw this out every time a thread on dope and driving comes up. Let me ask you this. What is an "expereinced" pot smoker?



Someone who has used it about ten or more times. Road and Track did an article titled "Puff the Dangerous Driver" in 1980. The purpose was to show the degradation of driving skills with both alcohol and pot. They gave one group of drivers some alcohol and they gave the other group pot. As the dosages went up, the alcohol group quickly went to hell. The pot smokers, however, actually got better at the driving course. They were experienced pot smokers.


Also, if their levels only come to .08, how about an inexpereinced user? Would their level of impairment be higher or lower?


The level of impairment for inexperienced users is unpredictable. Some people never feel anything the first few times they use. Others say they don't feel anything but are clearly impaired. Inexperienced pot smokers would be much more of a hazard than experienced pot smokers.

But, of course, the bottom line is that there is no evidence that pot is a major hazard on the road, either from experienced or inexperienced pot smokers. It just doesn't account for a lot of accidents. If you are worrying about road hazards there are lots of road hazards to worry about before this one.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:53:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
I've had a wreck cause I was stoned. It's what turned my life around. It changed who I was forever. I'm glad it happened. Anyone that thinks pot doesn't impair your driving abilities is a fucking moron.



From the guy who could only learn a lesson by getting in a wreck. OK.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:55:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
we all know every trace of mj in somebody's system is from smoking 30 days ago



Can you prove when it was ingested? No? End of legal case, whatever your prejudices may be.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:57:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



And what of the millions of people driving high everyday that dont wreck?
Or should we say because 1 gun is used in 1 crime, all guns are bad?



Please. How many experienced drunk drivers are on the road that don't get caught and don't get in wrecks. Your logic is flawed. MILLIONS of people each day driving high? Sounds like quite the exaggeration.



I would have to look up the stats again but, as I recall, the surveys of pot smokers indicate that there probably would be millions of people on the road stoned on pot at any given time. After all, there are perhaps thirty million or more regular pot smokers in the US. If only ten percent of them drove while stoned (which I think would be a low estimate over time) that would put millions of stoned drivers on the road every day.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:01:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Exactly. For the pot smokers here, this isn't a discussion on the legalization of pot.



Who, besides you, was confused about that?


It's a discussion about whether or not you have any business operating a vehicle while under the influence of a substance. You shouldn't be driving drunk, you shouldn't be driving on medication, you shouldn't be driving after staying up for 2 days straight, and you sure as fuck shouldn't be driving after smoking a joint. COMPRENDE?

You. Have. No. Business. Driving. Stoned.



We are clear on that, thanks. People should not drive impaired on anything. You may quote me.

However, I don't have a real bitch with the person who had one glass of wine and was not significantly impaired. Can we agree on that, too?



Your rationalization is the same rationalization that "experienced" drunks make when they get behind the wheel. Give it a rest.


No rationalization at all. Just giving you the facts. Marijuana is just not a major hazard on the road. Even the US Goverment agrees on that. If you are going to worry about impaired drivers then you should start worrying about alcohol and fatigue. Those two items account for far more accidents than marijuana. Not even a contest in that regard.

Fear the things that need to be feared. Don't get hysterical about things that are of comparatively little consequence.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:03:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:
I don't care what the idiot was on. Burn the f*cker.



I can't argue with that. It may have been pot, it may have been PCP, it may have been some other drug, or it may just have been the moron's own stupidity. In any event, he did serious wrong to someone else, and he has some accounting to do for it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:15:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:23:27 AM EDT
More charges possible for the fucked up pothead

More charges possible in fatal wreck
JIM KINNEY, The Saratogian
01/07/2006
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15888149&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6


SARATOGA SPRINGS -- A Saratoga Springs woman killed Thursday by an allegedly drug-impaired driver on Route 9 had recently moved home to Saratoga Springs from the Washington, D.C., area because it was safer.

The victim, 33-year-old Melanie O'Donnell, was the mother of a 2-year-old boy she adopted with her husband, George O'Donnell, 37.

Christopher N. McNally, 34, of 143 Church St., Saratoga Springs, is charged with driving while his ability was impaired by marijuana and Percocet, a powerful prescription narcotic painkiller.

McNally could face more serious charges, including second-degree manslaughter and first-degree vehicular manslaughter. If convicted of second-degree manslaughter, the more serious charge, he could face up to 15 years in state prison.

<snipped for brevity>

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:28:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
More charges possible for the fucked up pothead

More charges possible in fatal wreck
JIM KINNEY, The Saratogian
01/07/2006
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15888149&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6


SARATOGA SPRINGS -- A Saratoga Springs woman killed Thursday by an allegedly drug-impaired driver on Route 9 had recently moved home to Saratoga Springs from the Washington, D.C., area because it was safer.

The victim, 33-year-old Melanie O'Donnell, was the mother of a 2-year-old boy she adopted with her husband, George O'Donnell, 37.

Christopher N. McNally, 34, of 143 Church St., Saratoga Springs, is charged with driving while his ability was impaired by marijuana and Percocet, a powerful prescription narcotic painkiller.

McNally could face more serious charges, including second-degree manslaughter and first-degree vehicular manslaughter. If convicted of second-degree manslaughter, the more serious charge, he could face up to 15 years in state prison.

<snipped for brevity>




It appears from the evidence presented so far that Percocet would be the major impairment to his driving ability (aside from criminal stupidity). But, as stated before, it doesn't matter what drug it is. Impaired is impaired and the guy ought to fry.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:30:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Howabout you NOT DRIVE IMPAIRED. Have a 104 degree fever, hallucinations, and are tanked up on Nyquil? You have no business being behind the wheel of a car. 4 beers in an hour? You have no business behind the wheel of a car.

I don't care if you want to catch a buzz huffing gasoline--but stay THE FUCK off the road. That goes for you cell phone jabberers as well. Read the newspaper in traffic? You are an impaired driver, and a hazard to navigation.

Shave, read the paper, cook eggs and bacon, comb your hair, change your clothes, jerk off like a fucking chimp at the zoo, but don't fucking do it while you are piloting 2500 pounds of steel at 65 miles an hour.

Fuck!



You, sir, are a very wise man. Well said.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:34:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
I've had a wreck cause I was stoned. It's what turned my life around. It changed who I was forever. I'm glad it happened. Anyone that thinks pot doesn't impair your driving abilities is a fucking moron.



From the guy who could only learn a lesson by getting in a wreck. OK.



This guy admits to making a mistake, and then changed his life around for the better so a similiar mistake would not occur in the future.

And you flame him.

And then you wonder why you're unable to change anyone's mind on your agendas?

That was NOT cool, bro. Not one bit.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:38:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
More charges possible for the fucked up pothead

More charges possible in fatal wreck
JIM KINNEY, The Saratogian
01/07/2006
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15888149&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6


SARATOGA SPRINGS -- A Saratoga Springs woman killed Thursday by an allegedly drug-impaired driver on Route 9 had recently moved home to Saratoga Springs from the Washington, D.C., area because it was safer.

The victim, 33-year-old Melanie O'Donnell, was the mother of a 2-year-old boy she adopted with her husband, George O'Donnell, 37.

Christopher N. McNally, 34, of 143 Church St., Saratoga Springs, is charged with driving while his ability was impaired by marijuana and Percocet, a powerful prescription narcotic painkiller.

McNally could face more serious charges, including second-degree manslaughter and first-degree vehicular manslaughter. If convicted of second-degree manslaughter, the more serious charge, he could face up to 15 years in state prison.

<snipped for brevity>




It appears from the evidence presented so far that Percocet would be the major impairment to his driving ability (aside from criminal stupidity). But, as stated before, it doesn't matter what drug it is. Impaired is impaired and the guy ought to fry.



We can certainly agree on that! I've been on Percoset, and that shit ain't no joke. I wouldn't even use my crutches on that stuff, afraid I'd take a tumble. Driving on it is asking for a wreck.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:43:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:
This guy admits to making a mistake, and then changed his life around for the better so a similiar mistake would not occur in the future.

And you flame him.



Well, I guess the lesson is that you shouldn't call other people morons after explaining something like that about yourself.


And then you wonder why you're unable to change anyone's mind on your agendas?


Who, besides you, said that? Just FYI, I seem to be winning this debate overall, and I could give you a long list of people I have persuaded -- including lots of active narcotics and DEA agents, drug task force prosecutors, etc.


That was NOT cool, bro. Not one bit.


If you say so. You might advise Dusty to read up on something before he starts calling people morons.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:48:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 5:52:49 AM EDT by richardh247]

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By richardh247:
This guy admits to making a mistake, and then changed his life around for the better so a similiar mistake would not occur in the future.

And you flame him.



Well, I guess the lesson is that you shouldn't call other people morons after explaining something like that about yourself.


And then you wonder why you're unable to change anyone's mind on your agendas?


Who, besides you, said that? Just FYI, I seem to be winning this debate overall, and I could give you a long list of people I have persuaded -- including lots of active narcotics and DEA agents, drug task force prosecutors, etc.


That was NOT cool, bro. Not one bit.


If you say so. You might advise Dusty to read up on something before he starts calling people morons.



I didn't see where he called you a moron. Had I of seen that comment I'd of not said anything. I'm sorry, in that case.

EDIT He didn't call you a moron. He said anyone who believes pot doesn't make you impaired to drive is a moron. You yourself said that it can make you impaired, if only in a small percentage of people new to smoking. And the rest you said could get to .08, which is legally impaired in any state.

Im not jumping your shit bro, I just think you take this stuff too personally. If he would have said, "Hey, Wolf, you're a fucking moron" then I'd be more symapthetic to your post. But he didn't call you a moron, so I still think your comment weren't cool. JMHO, of course.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:06:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By AWACER:
Blood results will show there is more in his system than pot.



I suspect you are right. Polydrug use is the norm and someone that uses just one drug, and no others, is rare.

Hell I use three; Caffiene, nicotiene and alcohol.

I stopped a 16yo driver who took 12 Soma one night. Her pulse was 158BPM, pale, sweating, trembling, with really low BP. She was planning to go home and sleep it off. (she never would have woke up).



I got a guy on Soma one night a couple years ago.. his driving was the second-worst I had ever seen in 11 years of doing this. I would have sworn he was intox by alcohol except couldn't smell a thing. The PBT read zeroes... I asked him where he was coming from. He says, "My AA meeting."

He must have had about 30 empty prescription bottles in his car and probably was eating the Soma like candy all day long. In the hospital he agreed to submit to blood/urine for the DUI kit, except he couldn't pee even after drinking 14 glasses of water and 3 hours. So he asked the nurse to just catheterize him to get the urine. it was done, and she let him be for a few minutes to fill the bag. I suppose he got tired of the catheter being in because all of a sudden, we heard a very sharp scream of pain from him... he'd tried to pull the catheter out, not knowing it was held in place by an inflated balloon portion of the tube up inside him. Talk about giving one's self a literal kick in the nuts!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:29:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



Its not much real difference than alcohol, and we havent banned that yet...



In my state alcohol is more heavily regulated than MJ.

We have a state LE agency dedicated to alcohol enforcment. Consuming alcohol in public is a more serious offense than using MJ in public. Those under 21 cannot drive with any amount of Alcohol in their system, but MJ is okay unless you can demonstrate impairment.

Marijuana enthusiasts in Cali would be very sad if we ever took MJ as seriously as alcohol.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:35:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
More charges possible for the fucked up pothead

More charges possible in fatal wreck
JIM KINNEY, The Saratogian
01/07/2006
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15888149&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6


SARATOGA SPRINGS -- A Saratoga Springs woman killed Thursday by an allegedly drug-impaired driver on Route 9 had recently moved home to Saratoga Springs from the Washington, D.C., area because it was safer.

The victim, 33-year-old Melanie O'Donnell, was the mother of a 2-year-old boy she adopted with her husband, George O'Donnell, 37.

Christopher N. McNally, 34, of 143 Church St., Saratoga Springs, is charged with driving while his ability was impaired by marijuana and Percocet, a powerful prescription narcotic painkiller.

McNally could face more serious charges, including second-degree manslaughter and first-degree vehicular manslaughter. If convicted of second-degree manslaughter, the more serious charge, he could face up to 15 years in state prison.

<snipped for brevity>




It appears from the evidence presented so far that Percocet would be the major impairment to his driving ability (aside from criminal stupidity). But, as stated before, it doesn't matter what drug it is. Impaired is impaired and the guy ought to fry.



We can certainly agree on that! I've been on Percoset, and that shit ain't no joke. I wouldn't even use my crutches on that stuff, afraid I'd take a tumble. Driving on it is asking for a wreck.



Yet there are many people, on this very board, who take Rx narcotics for back pain and insist they are okay to drive and handle firearms. Personally i think any time a doctor prescribes a medicatio that can impair driving he should be required to report it to DMV and they should suspend the drivers driving privalege for the duration of the prescription. Doctors already do it for those who have seizures.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:37:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By OFFascist:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



Its not much real difference than alcohol, and we havent banned that yet...



In my state alcohol is more heavily regulated than MJ.



That's because marijuana isn't regulated at all. That is the nature of making things like that illegal.


We have a state LE agency dedicated to alcohol enforcment. Consuming alcohol in public is a more serious offense than using MJ in public. Those under 21 cannot drive with any amount of Alcohol in their system, but MJ is okay unless you can demonstrate impairment.


It is legally OK for people under 21 to consume marijuana at any time in California (without a valid medical permit)? Huh? Or did you mean to say that it is not "okay" but simply that there are such difficulties with prosecution for that offense that prosecution doesn't happen as often as you think it should?


Marijuana enthusiasts in Cali would be very sad if we ever took MJ as seriously as alcohol.


I guess you aren't keeping up with the news. People have been calling for a system of regulation similar to that for alcohol for a looooooong time. I can't think of anyone I know in the reform movement that would not accept an alcohol-like system of regulation today. If you can find a way to get that in place, I will get you an invitation to the victory party, all expenses paid.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:39:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Yet there are many people, on this very board, who take Rx narcotics for back pain and insist they are okay to drive and handle firearms. Personally i think any time a doctor prescribes a medicatio that can impair driving he should be required to report it to DMV and they should suspend the drivers driving privalege for the duration of the prescription. Doctors already do it for those who have seizures.



Based on what actual evidence that these people are actually a hazard on the road? How many of them would be banned from the road?

Just FYI, if a person is in real pain then they typically don't feel intoxicating effects from pain killers.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:51:29 AM EDT
Experienced drinker? Well, I've been drinking legally for over 40 years so I guess I'm qualified .

Experienced drinkers that are reponsible adults know not to drink and drive. How come some experienced pot smokers can't figure it out ?

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:53:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Yet there are many people, on this very board, who take Rx narcotics for back pain and insist they are okay to drive and handle firearms. Personally i think any time a doctor prescribes a medicatio that can impair driving he should be required to report it to DMV and they should suspend the drivers driving privalege for the duration of the prescription. Doctors already do it for those who have seizures.



Based on what actual evidence that these people are actually a hazard on the road? How many of them would be banned from the road?

Just FYI, if a person is in real pain then they typically don't feel intoxicating effects from pain killers.



Impaired not intoxicated. If impaired both from disabilty and narcotics they should not be driving.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:54:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Howabout you NOT DRIVE IMPAIRED... That goes for you cell phone jabberers as well...You are an impaired driver



I agree that many people don't seem to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and are distracted by the cell phone.

That doesn't mean EVERYONE is also similarly handicapped. I talk on the phone while driving all the time. I also listen to the radio and talk to passengers as well.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:00:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:08:43 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By OFFascist:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
but, but but, arfcom potheads say that weed doesnt impair driving!



Its not much real difference than alcohol, and we havent banned that yet...



In my state alcohol is more heavily regulated than MJ.



That's because marijuana isn't regulated at all. That is the nature of making things like that illegal.


We have a state LE agency dedicated to alcohol enforcment. Consuming alcohol in public is a more serious offense than using MJ in public. Those under 21 cannot drive with any amount of Alcohol in their system, but MJ is okay unless you can demonstrate impairment.


It is legally OK for people under 21 to consume marijuana at any time in California (without a valid medical permit)? Huh? Or did you mean to say that it is not "okay" but simply that there are such difficulties with prosecution for that offense that prosecution doesn't happen as often as you think it should? Read what I wrote again. I was talking about the zero tolerance law for alcohol and that there is no simular law for MJ. Teens know this.

Marijuana enthusiasts in Cali would be very sad if we ever took MJ as seriously as alcohol.

I guess you aren't keeping up with the news. People have been calling for a system of regulation similar to that for alcohol for a looooooong time. I can't think of anyone I know in the reform movement that would not accept an alcohol-like system of regulation today.





Right now you get caught smoking a joint in the bar parking lot/concert/city park you get a ticket. If it was treated like alcohol the cops would have to option of a ticket or jail. Do you think MJ advocates want to give the police the authority to take people to jail for public use like with alcohol?

I fully support treating pot like alcohol. But it would mean increased penalties for pot in Cali.

So let me ask you this?

Would you support a zero tolerance law for MJ same as alcohol?

Would you support increasing the fine for a person under 21 possessing MJ to the same fine as those who possess alcohol?

Would you support making smoking marijuana in a public park an arrestable offense, same as with alcohol?

Would you support a fine for driver under 21 knowingly transport marijuana, same as with alcohol?

How about an open container law? break the seal on your bag then you can be arrested if you possess it in public and ticketed if you transport it in your car?

How about smoking while driving? We ticket those who drink alcohol while driving.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:09:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Read what I wrote again. I was talking about the zero tolerance law for alcohol and that there is no simular law for MJ. Teens know this.



Why would there need to be a zero tolerance law for pot when it is illegal for everyone to use without prescription?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:12:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Read what I wrote again. I was talking about the zero tolerance law for alcohol and that there is no simular law for MJ. Teens know this.



Why would there need to be a zero tolerance law for pot when it is illegal for everyone to use without prescription?



In my state it is not illegal to use marijuana or be under the influence of it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:16:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Howabout you NOT DRIVE IMPAIRED... That goes for you cell phone jabberers as well...You are an impaired driver



I agree that many people don't seem to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and are distracted by the cell phone.

That doesn't mean EVERYONE is also similarly handicapped. I talk on the phone while driving all the time. I also listen to the radio and talk to passengers as well.




And I'm sure that you're a "special case".

Look, I've ridden a motorcycle as my daily transportation for about 6 years--rain or shine, and I can assure you that I can pick out who is on the phone and who is not. YOU may not feel that you are a hazard, but that's because you are ensconced in a large solid automobile, cut off from any real feeling of danger and sense of what is around you.

You also are unlikely to notice when you drift into another lane by 6 inches or pull out in front of a rider who has no traffic behind him. It's OK, we expect it. Driving a car is not something to go about casually--familiarity breeds carelessness. When you ride a motorcycle and feel the wind from a tractor trailer blowing past you, you are reminded that you are a squishy bag of meat, lacking even the slightest REAL protection from harm other than your skills as a rider.

I'm not saying that driving on the phone is the same as taking 57 soma and going for a ride around the block, but it DOES detract from your attentiveness.

GT
10 and 2. Eyes front.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:52:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Read what I wrote again. I was talking about the zero tolerance law for alcohol and that there is no simular law for MJ. Teens know this.



Why would there need to be a zero tolerance law for pot when it is illegal for everyone to use without prescription?



In my state it is not illegal to use marijuana or be under the influence of it.



It is not legal to possess marijuana in California unless you are a medical user.
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