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Posted: 1/6/2006 7:32:58 PM EDT
from:(RFID) computer chips get under skin of enthusiasts

Computer chips get under skin of enthusiasts

By Jamie McGeever
Fri Jan 6, 9:41 AM ET



NEW YORK (Reuters) - Forgetting computer passwords is an everyday source of frustration, but a solution may literally be at hand -- in the form of computer chip implants.

With a wave of his hand, Amal Graafstra, a 29-year-old entrepreneur based in Vancouver, Canada, opens his front door. With another, he logs onto his computer.

Tiny radio frequency identification (RFID) computer chips inserted into Graafstra's hands make it all possible.

"I just don't want to be without access to the things that I need to get access to. In the worst case scenario, if I'm in the alley naked, I want to still be able to get in (my house)," Graafstra said in an interview in New York, where he is promoting the technology. "RFID is for me. "

The computer chips, which cost about $2, interact with a device installed in computers and other electronics. The chips are activated when they come within 3 inches of a so-called reader, which scans the data on the chips. The "reader" devices are available for as little as $50.

Information about where to buy the chips and readers is available online at the "tagged" forum, (http://tagged.kaos.gen.nz/) where enthusiasts of the technology chat and share information.

Graafstra said at least 20 of his tech-savvy pals have RFID implants.

"I can't feel it at all. It doesn't impede me. It doesn't hurt at all. I almost can't tell it's there," agreed Jennifer Tomblin, a 23-year-old marketing student and Graafstra's girlfriend.

'ABRACADABRA'

Mikey Sklar, a 28-year-old Brooklyn resident, said, "It does give you some sort of power of 'Abracadabra,' of making doors open and passwords enter just by a wave of your hand."

The RFID chip in Sklar's hand, which is smaller than a grain of rice and can last up to 100 years, was injected by a surgeon in Los Angeles.

Tattoo artists and veterinarians also could insert the chips into people, he said. For years, veterinarians have been injecting similar chips into pets so the animals can be returned to their owners if they are lost.

Graafstra was drawn to RFID tagging to make life easier in this technological age, but Sklar said he was more intrigued by the technology's potential in a broader sense.

In the future, technological advances will allow people to store, transmit and access encrypted personal information in an increasing number of wireless ways, Sklar said.

Wary of privacy issues, Sklar said he is developing a fabric "shield" to protect such chips from being read by strangers seeking to steal personal information or identities.

One advantage of the RFID chip, Graafstra said, is that it cannot get lost or stolen. And the chip can always be removed from a person's body.

"It's kind of a gadget thing, and it's not so impressive to have it on your key chain as it is to have it in you," Sklar said. "But it's not for everyone."

Sklar's girlfriend, Wendy Tremayne, has yet to be convinced. She said she probably would not inject the computer chip into her body unless she thought it was a "necessity."

"If it becomes more convenient, I may," said the 38-year-old artist and yoga teacher. "(But) I'd rather have an organic life."

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:34:49 PM EDT
f-that
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:38:37 PM EDT
Excellent! Not only are we going to be serialized, but "they" will mark us like cattle! Over my dead body!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:39:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
f-that



Yup

Fuck that fucking shit! What kind of fucking imbecile prefers surgery to carrying housekeys? And why the fuck don't you just memorize your passwords? Lazy fucking people.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:40:09 PM EDT
"(But) I'd rather have an organic life."
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:40:25 PM EDT
I think its a cool idea.... No keys to mis-place....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:41:47 PM EDT
Dumbasses. Willingly getting electronic dog collars.

Utterly clueless on the unintended consequences...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:49:17 PM EDT
Could this be the 'mark of the beast'?

Some would say yes....

But I think they said the same about SSNs....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:52:09 PM EDT
I know it sounds awful, but if I were a juror I'd be hard-pressed to vote to convict a person who used a hatchet to relieve others of limbs containing those things. It would be very bad if the eventual mandatory chip program had a store of genuinely happy voluntarily chipped sheep to use in the ad campaign. I'd rather the people too stupid to see the danger were forcibly taught that chip = nub.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:59:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Could this be the 'mark of the beast'?

Some would say yes....

But I think they said the same about SSNs....



An SSN number cannot be instantly linked to your bank account without the RFID. Making it not valid for the "buying and selling" portion of that prophesy.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:00:14 PM EDT
I remember some guy in africa that was useing biometrics for something, I think it was his car, well they cut off his thumb to steal it
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:07:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 8:07:32 PM EDT by Tannim]

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
I remember some guy in africa that was useing biometrics for something, I think it was his car, well they cut off his thumb to steal it



His new mercedes.

I asked one of the morons pushing this technology a similiar question when he visited my college long ago.

him: "Your ATM card will be your fingerprint. So I can't be stolen."
me: "Excuse me? You fingerprint?"
him: "Yes."
me: "Well today someone will kill you for your wallet, why wouldn't they cut off your finger and take it to the ATM."
him:"HAHAHA Very funny."
me:"I'm NOT joking. That's a serious quesiton you're avoiding."
Him:"Um, well.. we could add a PIN code."
Me:" well if you need a PIN code, why should I use biometrics. I thought 'I was the key.'"
Him: "Any other questions?" /ignore tannim
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:12:47 PM EDT
actually the fingerprint scanner is supposed to detect whether said digit is still functional (attached to the rightful owner) - at least on my ThinkPad...

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:16:25 PM EDT
A SSN can't be put in your "forehead or right hand," nor will a SSN cause a "grevious sore" like an RFID chip can cause if it breaks under the skin.

Read Revelation. This technology sounds frighteningly similar to the prophecy of the mark of the beast.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:18:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
I remember some guy in africa that was useing biometrics for something, I think it was his car, well they cut off his thumb to steal it



His new mercedes.

I asked one of the morons pushing this technology a similiar question when he visited my college long ago.

him: "Your ATM card will be your fingerprint. So I can't be stolen."
me: "Excuse me? You fingerprint?"
him: "Yes."
me: "Well today someone will kill you for your wallet, why wouldn't they cut off your finger and take it to the ATM."
him:"HAHAHA Very funny."
me:"I'm NOT joking. That's a serious quesiton you're avoiding."
Him:"Um, well.. we could add a PIN code."
Me:" well if you need a PIN code, why should I use biometrics. I thought 'I was the key.'"
Him: "Any other questions?" /ignore tannim



Me: "PWNED!!!!!!"
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:21:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Merrell:
actually the fingerprint scanner is supposed to detect whether said digit is still functional (attached to the rightful owner) - at least on my ThinkPad...




Didn't some guys defeat it with clay?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:40:26 PM EDT
I think a lot of women will go for it, especially the part about putting electronic tags on their husbands...just so they can keep track of them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:41:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 12:42:14 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]





"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:01:23 PM EDT

Woe unto you, O Earth and Sea. For the Devil sends the Beast with wrath, as he knows the time is short. Therefore let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the Beast, for it is a human number; it's number is six hundred and sixty six.


June 6th, 2006 perhaps?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:08:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 1:08:39 PM EDT by topknot]
20 years ago, the folks that predicted this were called Kooks.

Bitter-Sweet vindication.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:10:36 PM EDT
Can you do anything to stop the beast.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:18:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 1:20:07 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By staraero:
Can you do anything to stop the beast.



The Beast may be bulletproof, but his minions sure ain't.
Just make sure to use "Vatikan" ammo
Works on vampires too.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:18:54 PM EDT
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand," Revelation 14:9(KJV)
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:19:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
www.according2prophecy.org/Mark-Beast-3.jpg




"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).



Revelation 13:11-17 (the extended version, emphasis mine)


Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.


Wait until cash is no good, folks.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:23:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 1:24:38 PM EDT by NimmerMehr]

Originally Posted By giacutter:

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
I remember some guy in africa that was useing biometrics for something, I think it was his car, well they cut off his thumb to steal it



His new mercedes.

I asked one of the morons pushing this technology a similiar question when he visited my college long ago.

him: "Your ATM card will be your fingerprint. So I can't be stolen."
me: "Excuse me? You fingerprint?"
him: "Yes."
me: "Well today someone will kill you for your wallet, why wouldn't they cut off your finger and take it to the ATM."
him:"HAHAHA Very funny."
me:"I'm NOT joking. That's a serious quesiton you're avoiding."
Him:"Um, well.. we could add a PIN code."
Me:" well if you need a PIN code, why should I use biometrics. I thought 'I was the key.'"
Him: "Any other questions?" /ignore tannim



Me: "PWNED!!!!!!"



"My voice.. is my.. Passport?. Verify..me."


Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.


Wait until cash is no good, folks.



The name of the beast is "RFID"?!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:18:20 PM EDT
BAH, this is just gimmick crap like pet rocks or something. If you really needed an RFID you could put it on a ring or a bracelet or someother such shisse. no need for under the skin crap.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:19:45 PM EDT
did I mention F' that
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:22:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Could this be the 'mark of the beast'?

Some would say yes....

But I think they said the same about SSNs....




my SSN's last 5 digs are 6665, I recieved a letter many years ago from the SSA stateing that I could have it changed at no charge because I had 666 in it, they did that for everyone. I kept it because I think its funny that everytime I use it someone always goes ooooo, that's scary, like I'm the antichrist now.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:35:38 PM EDT
There are advantages and disadvantages to implanting; if it was carried on a keychain (like the Mobil SpeedPass) it could get lost or stolen.
....
But also do note: all of the arguments being given against RFID use were probably made against putting license plates on cars way-back-when. If license plates were eliminated today the average person wouldn't gain much convenience, but there'd be a huge rise in drive-off accidents and auto theft.

And anyway, in practical terms, the more information that gets collected, the more difficult it is to find out what data is worth searching for.
~
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:52:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

my SSN's last 5 digs are 6665, I recieved a letter many years ago from the SSA stateing that I could have it changed at no charge because I had 666 in it, they did that for everyone. I kept it because I think its funny that everytime I use it someone always goes ooooo, that's scary, like I'm the antichrist now.



That 4, not 5, and umnm..... whats your mom's last name.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:14:17 PM EDT
from:http://www.govexec.com/features/0905-01/0905-01s2.htm


An Internet Of Things

By Shane Harris
sharris@nationaljournal.com


The government wants to know where its stuff is. All the time.

Every now and then, a technology comes along that so dramatically changes the way we do things that it's considered "disruptive." This deliberately jarring term describes the fundamental leap from one way of life to another that occurs when an innovation becomes ubiquitous. Steam and internal combustion engines, for instance, made horse-drawn carriages and human-powered machines obsolete. Tiny micro-chips the size of your fingertip relegated acres-large mainframe computers to the scrapyard. These "disruptive" technologies wrought profound changes.

Disruptive technologies are rare. Not only must people create the technology, but society has to accept it and reject older ideas. So it is that online commerce, though wildly popular, is not disruptive since people still shop mostly in actual stores. But that doesn't stop technologists from looking for the next big thing. Given the excitement these days over one innovation, many think they've found it.

In the opinion of its strongest advocates, radio frequency identification (RFID) could fundamentally change the way we understand and manage things. Anything. Everything. From cat litter to cats, automobile parts to cars, troops to tanks. About a dozen federal agencies, most notably the Defense Department, already are using it to track a dizzying array of items as they circulate through the so-called global supply chain. In their eyes, the future looks something like this:

You go the dairy section of your favorite grocery store. The shelves are stocked with a variety of milk - 1 percent, 2 percent, skim - a perfect amount of each kind. That's because all the cartons are "tagged" with RFID antennas, maybe on the outside of the carton, maybe built into it. Using radio waves, these transmitters tell the grocer how much milk is in stock, and tell the supplier how fast it's moving off the shelves - the best indication for when to restock. Precise information lets both know just how much to buy and sell, so very little goes to waste.

But RFID doesn't stop working there. You put the milk in your shopping cart, but you leave the store without so much as swiping a credit card. As you pass a reader at the checkout counter, the RFID tag tells another system how much the milk costs; that amount automatically is deducted from your checking account. You drive home, zipping through a tollbooth because you have an RFID-equipped E-ZPass affixed to your windshield. You put the milk in your refrigerator, which is outfitted to sense tagged items and read expiration dates. When, two weeks later, your son reaches for the milk to pour on his cereal, your "smart" fridge alerts him not to drink it because its expiration date has passed.

At NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center in California, RFID is used in combination with a variety of sensors to alert employees when they're moving hazardous chemicals into places they shouldn't. An RFID checkout system at the supply station also tells managers who has checked out certain chemicals and for how long. Tagging those chemicals with RFID lets managers monitor them, for example, during the trip to and from Dryden across the Mojave Desert, when they are vulnerable to theft.

Military logisticians also like to know the precise location of everything they buy and use - and the military buys and uses just about everything. Did the Apache heli-copters make it to the forward operating base in Afghanistan? Did the toilet paper arrive as well? RFID tags can track shipments en route and tell planners when supplies are low. When look-alike crates and pallets arrive at a base, a quartermaster can wave a hand-held RFID reader past them, sometimes from hundreds of yards away, and know instantly what's inside.

It didn't used to be this way. During the Gulf War, the Pentagon sent about 40,000 large containers of items to the field, 25,000 of which had to be opened to ascertain their contents, says Alan Estevez, the assistant deputy undersecretary of Defense for supply chain integration, who is leading one of the biggest RFID implementations in the world. Beginning in 2007, Defense will require its suppliers to tag all their crates and pallets. The military already uses RFID to track supplies in the war zone and benefits are accruing, Estevez says.

For example, the Marines who run the primary logistics hub in Iraq have reduced their supply inventory dramatically because they know what they have on hand and where the replacements are in the chain, Estevez says. There's less chance that needed supplies can be misrouted or overordered. The Marines no longer pre-emptively file double or triple orders for replacements, the usual practice for ensuring supplies don't run short. Before RFID was implemented, in 2005, the Marines at the hub had filed 92,000 replacement orders, Estevez says. Now, the number of orders in the pipeline stands at 11,000.

But RFID offers more than the ability to track and trace supplies, proponents say. Hospitals could tag pharmaceutical bottles which, when placed near a patient wearing an RFID-equipped bracelet, could alert hospital personnel about the patient's allergies or negative reactions to that medication. This presumes the patient's medical history has been stored in a database connected to the RFID-enabled system. If the drug were recalled by its manufacturer, the RFID network could tell suppliers exactly which hospitals or stores stocked the medication. And, if the manufacturer wanted to recall just one batch of the drug but leave the others in circulation, RFID could isolate the affected stock.

Items, like information, are everywhere. But unlike information, which we obtain easily online, we can't see all our stuff there. Having that ability would add visibility to the supply chain. That's what RFID can provide, says Dan Caprio, deputy assistant secretary for technology policy at the Commerce Department's Technology Administration. He and Estevez chair an intergovernmental council where agencies coordinate RFID projects so they can share ideas and perhaps adopt the same technology. Caprio says that RFID, used in a system of sensors, databases and other information managing devices, changes not only the way we collect data, but how we use it and the insights we glean from it. "It has the ability to shape society," he says. "It's kind of the Internet of things."

The Power to Name
RFID could disrupt the way we think about things by doing much of the thinking for us. The technology is helping create a "sense-and-response supply chain," says Paul

Strzelec, the senior director for intelligence supply chain services at VeriSign Inc. in Mountain View, Calif., which operates information networks for government agencies and corporations. Machines sense what's happening in the chain, where items are moving, when their stock is low, Strzelec says. "When that information is delivered to the right party, a response can be taken." That party need not always be a human being. For some, it ideally wouldn't be.

Strzelec's company likely will be pivotal in this brave new sensing world. VeriSign manages the primary directory in the Internet of things, a system known as the object naming service (ONS). It was developed by researchers at the Auto-ID Center, a consortium of research universities founded in 1999 to "develop an open standard architecture for creating a seamless global network of physical objects," in the center's words.

Researchers recognized that in the virtual world, locations on the Internet have unique identifiers, a set of numbers known as an Internet Protocol address. These numbers tell computers where to find Web pages. But humans find it much easier to locate information using a domain name - www.dod.mil, for instance. So, a domain name system (DNS) lets people find information or send e-mails using names, not numbers. The Auto-ID researchers developed a similar system for locating things, and borrowed the name from the DNS.

The ONS is an indispensable piece of the Internet of things, which actually has a formal name - the Electronic Product Code Global Network. The network is being established and run by EPCglobal Inc., a worldwide, not-for-profit organization with U.S. headquarters in Lawrence-ville, N.J. EPCglobal was given the Auto-ID Center's technology after the center closed in 2003 and was instructed to push adoption of RFID and related technology. Within the EPC Global Network, all RFID tags will be equipped with an electronic product code, a unique identifier not unlike an Internet Protocol address. That number will be registered in the ONS the same way IP addresses are logged in the domain name system. As a product moves, its RFID tag constantly updates its position and sends other information to the global network. Someone only has to query the ONS to find out where the product is and obtain its encoded information. "The result," according to a description of the network on VeriSign's Web site, "is real-time full visibility of the supply chain."

The ONS would be available only to parties in the supply chain, Strzelec says, as a directory built into whatever network they use. For the military, that might be the Global Information Grid, a seamless space where the services intend to move, store and process information about troop movements, intelligence and, of course, things and where they are.

Why Build It?
If RFID and the EPC Global Network take off, they will constitute a true technological disruption. But is that reason enough to build the Internet of things, particularly considering how difficult it would be to protect it from intrusion or abuse? What's the benefit of being able to locate a box of razor blades on a ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean?

The return on investment for RFID remains elusive. With RFID, some agencies hope to save money and time and avoid frustration. Others are more interested in the public safety benefits. Estevez says Defense hasn't nailed down exactly how much money it could save by infusing the technology into its supply system. It could be as much as $1.2 billion, he says. That's the value of the items the Government Accountability Office says the Army lost track of during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

But the truth is, Estevez doesn't know how much money the department could save by using RFID. No one knows that yet, partly because the cost of RFID technologies hasn't settled. So-called active tags, which transmit data under their own power, can cost from $80 to $100 or more. But passive tags, which require a reader, have been hovering around 20 cents apiece. Many RFID watchers believe the price will have to drop to 5 cents or less for the technology to become widely used. As it is now, outside the government, large retailers with deep pockets are the primary users.

In addition to cost concerns, there are privacy questions. Critics already have fingered RFID as an Orwellian device, able to monitor what groceries people buy and where they drive their cars, and to give parents the power to tag and track their children. Some pet owners already do this.

The Commerce Department, which wants to foster RFID development, has identified public resistance as one of the biggest possible hurdles. According to an overview on a department Web site, "If ignored, privacy concerns about the capabilities and use of RFID products could become a significant factor adversely affecting whether the technology becomes widely deployed and achieves its full potential."

People aren't so much afraid of the tagging itself as of how data might be used, Caprio believes. This is particularly true when they can't "opt out" of RFID, such as when obtaining a passport. The State Department plans to tag all U.S. passports with RFID antennae, so they can be scanned at ports of entry. Critics contend this would make it easy for the government to track citizens' movements and for others with readers to filch personal data off the passports. "Emotion and fear are beginning to drive the debate," Caprio says, noting disapprovingly that California lawmakers introduced legislation last year to ban the use of RFID in the state unless citizens authorized it in a specific case, such as when buying items in a store.

But for Caprio and other RFID supporters, the benefits of the technology are limitless, so policies should be established to protect the use of personal information. And those policies, Caprio says, should be established by the private sector, not the government.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:34:36 PM EDT
Maybe the terrorists are right Maybe the US government really is the great satan.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:47:41 PM EDT


But for Caprio and other RFID supporters, the benefits of the technology are limitless, so policies should be established to protect the use of personal information. And those policies, Caprio says, should be established by the private sector, not the government.



Yeah, the only thing that will steamroller the average citizen faster than the government is a corporation. FUCK THAT. We need hard laws to define absolute limits and prevent companies from demanding implantation as a condition of employment.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:50:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Floppy_833:
There are advantages and disadvantages to implanting; if it was carried on a keychain (like the Mobil SpeedPass) it could get lost or stolen.
....
But also do note: all of the arguments being given against RFID use were probably made against putting license plates on cars way-back-when. If license plates were eliminated today the average person wouldn't gain much convenience, but there'd be a huge rise in drive-off accidents and auto theft.




You seem to miss the fact that in terms of acceptability, car tags helped to pave the way for crap like SSNs and RFID chips. The advocates of evil plans are almost always fabianists, because overt announcements of wicked intent are not well-received by the public at large.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:53:03 PM EDT
Here we go, figured this was coming





Let 'em try and chip me (if they havn't already )
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:26:37 PM EDT
Just remember that the tag in the original article would be a PASSIVE tag, and would have a very short range, probably not much more than 3 inches or so. The tag will only send out his id info (or "unlock me now") in response to a signal scanner mounted at his door.

Sooo, whats so scary about this scheme? Its the exact same technology as electronic pass cards that you have to put up against a door scanner that some businesses use. I remember using those 20 years ago.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:04:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
www.according2prophecy.org/Mark-Beast-3.jpg




"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-18).




What if I get in injected into my left hand?

Silly fools. The devil is so easy to beat.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 3:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
You seem to miss the fact that in terms of acceptability, car tags helped to pave the way for crap like SSNs and RFID chips. The advocates of evil plans are almost always fabianists, because overt announcements of wicked intent are not well-received by the public at large.


Weeeellllll,
SSN's were a communist plot, 'nuff said.
And as such--they are destined to be a pox upon the proletariat. Someday soon Social Security will be paid out each month in pocket-change--and the only real value your SSN will have is to fraud artists who want to take out lines of credit in your name.
-------
But my point was that if car tags were eliminated, you would save the fairly-small cost of renewing them, but you would face a much-larger risk of a hit-and-run accidents and auto theft.

Also that by an absolute measure of "privacy", if you pay cash for everything, you shouldn't ever have to prove your identity or have it recorded for anything, should you? But most places of the world have not had "absolute" privacy for a long time--and those few that still do (like.... Somalia!) are places that --even though they have some pretty lax gun laws-- you likely wouldn't want to live.
~~~
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:00:03 AM EDT
Mark my words:

The .mil will require implantation of this device in the future...

Every soldier ,GS employee, and government contracter will have one of these devices implanted under their skin...

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:50:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Floppy_833:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
You seem to miss the fact that in terms of acceptability, car tags helped to pave the way for crap like SSNs and RFID chips. The advocates of evil plans are almost always fabianists, because overt announcements of wicked intent are not well-received by the public at large.


Weeeellllll,
SSN's were a communist plot, 'nuff said.
And as such--they are destined to be a pox upon the proletariat. Someday soon Social Security will be paid out each month in pocket-change--and the only real value your SSN will have is to fraud artists who want to take out lines of credit in your name.
-------
But my point was that if car tags were eliminated, you would save the fairly-small cost of renewing them, but you would face a much-larger risk of a hit-and-run accidents and auto theft.

Also that by an absolute measure of "privacy", if you pay cash for everything, you shouldn't ever have to prove your identity or have it recorded for anything, should you? But most places of the world have not had "absolute" privacy for a long time--and those few that still do (like.... Somalia!) are places that --even though they have some pretty lax gun laws-- you likely wouldn't want to live.
~~~



Until cash becomes illegal to pay with, like gold or silver is now.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:52:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:
Mark my words:

The .mil will require implantation of this device in the future...

Every soldier ,GS employee, and government contracter will have one of these devices implanted under their skin...



That will be part of it. It will probably be required for certain type of criminals to leave prison or be on probation/parole, and for babies/children being adopted or put in orphanages. After a year or two it will become more "normal" and all children will be required to get them. "Do it for the children" in case they are kidnapped, killed, lost, etc.

Pretty soon everyone in the country will have one.

The interesting thing is that if they are able to give them with a syringe like a normal shot, you will be able to be implanted and never know it. Stop for a doctors appointment that requires a shot or vaccination like the flu and you have one. You would never know.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:59:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Could this be the 'mark of the beast'?

Some would say yes....

But I think they said the same about SSNs....



no one put your SSN on your hand or your head. While this is not the mark (because it is not mandatory - yet), this is probably a test.
Matt
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:17:10 AM EDT
I can honestly say I will NOT ever have an RFID chip implanted with my knowledge. I dont care about the consequence, they just plain arent doing it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:18:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Floppy_833:
There are advantages and disadvantages to implanting; if it was carried on a keychain (like the Mobil SpeedPass) it could get lost or stolen.
....
But also do note: all of the arguments being given against RFID use were probably made against putting license plates on cars way-back-when. If license plates were eliminated today the average person wouldn't gain much convenience, but there'd be a huge rise in drive-off accidents and auto theft.




You seem to miss the fact that in terms of acceptability, car tags helped to pave the way for crap like SSNs and RFID chips. The advocates of evil plans are almost always fabianists, because overt announcements of wicked intent are not well-received by the public at large.



No one here yet has specifically mentioned their possible use in "safe" gun technology. If it's your choice then YOU'LL have to live with it. Not for everything.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:27:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:33:17 AM EDT by FREEFALLE7]
Well considering that I have built/assembled 90% of the gun's I own, I will leave the damn chip out.

They can shove the safe gun crap.

FREE



Originally Posted By nightstalker:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Floppy_833:
There are advantages and disadvantages to implanting; if it was carried on a keychain (like the Mobil SpeedPass) it could get lost or stolen.
....
But also do note: all of the arguments being given against RFID use were probably made against putting license plates on cars way-back-when. If license plates were eliminated today the average person wouldn't gain much convenience, but there'd be a huge rise in drive-off accidents and auto theft.




You seem to miss the fact that in terms of acceptability, car tags helped to pave the way for crap like SSNs and RFID chips. The advocates of evil plans are almost always fabianists, because overt announcements of wicked intent are not well-received by the public at large.



No one here yet has specifically mentioned their possible use in "safe" gun technology. If it's your choice then YOU'LL have to live with it. Not for everything.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:36:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:


No one here yet has specifically mentioned their possible use in "safe" gun technology. If it's your choice then YOU'LL have to live with it. Not for everything.



"We're going to take his door now. Start the RFID frequency jammer."

Because you know Big Brother's guns won't work on RFID.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:43:34 AM EDT
Bulls***

Then any terrorist who can lay their hands on a scanner will be able to get your info if your captured/compromised.

Just imagine if they are the type that can be tracked via GPS??? What happens when Hadji is using it against us to track troop movements????.

Plus you would be surprised at how many people would refuse this, and their refusal would be backed up by the Chaplins and the Conservative base.

I for one will not get it. If they want to chip me they will have to sneak one in(shot vaccines).

And dont worry chips can be removed.

FREE


Originally Posted By pv74:
Mark my words:

The .mil will require implantation of this device in the future...

Every soldier ,GS employee, and government contracter will have one of these devices implanted under their skin...


Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:50:09 AM EDT
Thats why you keep your trusty AR ready.

Or you get a RFID Frequency jammer detector

FREE



Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By nightstalker:


No one here yet has specifically mentioned their possible use in "safe" gun technology. If it's your choice then YOU'LL have to live with it. Not for everything.



"We're going to take his door now. Start the RFID frequency jammer."

Because you know Big Brother's guns won't work on RFID.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:25:00 AM EDT
No bullshit... I can forsee the day when this happens...just mark my words...

It will not happen in the near future...but within 30 years down the line. Oposition to the technology will have siginifantly weekened by then.

Sure, their will be refusals, but orders are orders, and most people will go along with it.
Just like the anthrax shots. (I know the very recent court order makes them voluntary nowadays).

The chip would probably be inserted just like a TB skin test.

Data can be encrypted...and the tags would be of the type that can be read from say only inches away. Passive, rather than active tags. Who knows what data will be on the chips...name, rank and serial number? Maybe a special ID code? No, you would not be able to track people on the battlefield with them.


RFID is an up and coming technology. It is already here and very much in use, but it's use WILL grow VERY significantly within the forseable future.



Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Bulls***

Then any terrorist who can lay their hands on a scanner will be able to get your info if your captured/compromised.

Just imagine if they are the type that can be tracked via GPS??? What happens when Hadji is using it against us to track troop movements????.

Plus you would be surprised at how many people would refuse this, and their refusal would be backed up by the Chaplins and the Conservative base.

I for one will not get it. If they want to chip me they will have to sneak one in(shot vaccines).

And dont worry chips can be removed.

FREE


Originally Posted By pv74:
Mark my words:

The .mil will require implantation of this device in the future...

Every soldier ,GS employee, and government contracter will have one of these devices implanted under their skin...



Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:49:05 AM EDT
the best use of this technology for the individual would be if it were a "secret". This would be a great way to control access to things you own, but only if no one knew for sure and especially if it were merely another layer of security.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:50:03 AM EDT
One advantage might be if you had an RFID chip implanted that had a medical ID number on it--so if you ever needed medical care in an emergency, medics would read the RFID tag and instantly get a complete record of your medical history--allergies, current medications, ect. An average person might not think this such a great idea--but a person with a severe allergy to certain common medications or substances might easily be convinced it's a good idea.

And as I understand, it's Wal-Mart pushing for RFID in consumer products. They were supposed to have major suppliers start RFID-tagging cases (but not individual items) in 2006, but most weren't ready, so that has been postponed. Wal-Mart wants to do it to enable easier inventory management, and Wal-Mart was one of the first companies behind the initial push for UPC-barcodes--which are now on everything.
~~~
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