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Posted: 1/6/2006 6:22:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 8:26:26 PM EDT by VoodooChile]
From what I understand its more about the payback that Israel wanted/got than the actual kidnappings at the '72 Olympics..I would have been interested in seeing what actually happened with the snipers that were supposed to rescue the athletes and how the screwups occurred...but from what I understand this is supposed to be one of Spielberg's best
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:27:41 AM EDT

Definitely on my "to see" list.

There was one film done about the teams that did this back in the 80's, I believe.
It had a Golan-Globus kinda way about it.

Hopefully Spielberg has brought his best to this one.

DaddyDett
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:32:52 AM EDT
Instead of just telling the actual story, he uses the event to make an asinine statement that fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism, and worse, all it does is breed more terrorism. He ends the movie with a shot of the World Trade Center towers.

It's really not about Munich '72 at all, it's a condemnation of the US fighting back against al-Qaeda.

And the pisser is, he's made another movie about the consequences of showing your enemy mercy. In Saving Private Ryan, they spare Steamboat Willy the SS soldier, who comes back to kill one of their comrades. But remember, killing Steamboat Willy would just have created more enemies to fight

Spielberg's a great filmmaker, but he's one of those mushy-headed liberals who's not as smart or wise as he thinks, and assumes one's enemy is the moral equivalent of oneself. That's not true. No way were the Nazis, the communists, or al-Qaeda our moral equivalents. And if you think they were or are, you like Spielberg are a blithering idiot.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:34:35 AM EDT
Based on this review, I do not get why Spielberg, as a Jew, would falsify history to create moral ambivelence, when in reality there was none. This "cycle of violence" theory, if carried to its logical conclusion, would result in the destruction of the Jewish state. You can't try and be reasonable with people who have an unreasonable hatred of you.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:36:57 AM EDT
For the reasons mentioned above, I won't be seeing it. Besides, I already saw the movie about 15 years ago. It was called "The Sword of Gideon".
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:37:12 AM EDT

Raven, I didn't see it that way at all. More like a bunch of partially-trained amatuers on a shoestring budget doing the best they can, rising to the occasion and making mistakes along the way. Much like the nation of Israel itself.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:38:42 AM EDT
i plan on buying a ticket to narnia and going to see munich for the killings and the guns. local reviews have been lukewarm and friends who have seen it says it's a lotta hollyweird handwringing about mossad assassins doing a lotta introspective thinking on what they're doing, whether they're as bad as the terrorists, is this good for israel, are we being used, why can't i sleep at night...jesus christ, how far is steven spielberg removed from the real world??? can you imagine a marine or specops guy or a fucking farmer from nebraska doing all this handwringing if they had a chance to whack osama??? or do you think there'd be a mad rush of guys fighting to pull the trigger??? and crazy celebrations afterwards!!!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:39:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:42:39 AM EDT
I was actually gonna go watch it tonight, but I think I'll just go watch walk the line at a buddy's house
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:48:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By raven:
Instead of just telling the actual story, he uses the event to make an asinine statement that fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism, and worse, all it does is breed more terrorism. He ends the movie with a shot of the World Trade Center towers.

It's really not about Munich '72 at all, it's a condemnation of the US fighting back against al-Qaeda.

And the pisser is, he's made another movie about the consequences of showing your enemy mercy. In Saving Private Ryan, they spare Steamboat Willy the SS soldier, who comes back to kill one of their comrades. But remember, killing Steamboat Willy would just have created more enemies to fight

Spielberg's a great filmmaker, but he's one of those mushy-headed liberals who's not as smart or wise as he thinks, and assumes one's enemy is the moral equivalent of oneself. That's not true. No way were the Nazis, the communists, or al-Qaeda our moral equivalents. And if you think they were or are, you like Spielberg are a blithering idiot.


Great fucking post, raven.

I'm planning on giving Munich a miss.



That's one of the best posts I have ever read on any subject, period.

+1 Very well written, Raven!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:49:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 6:50:22 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By imposter:
Based on this review


damn good review/history lesson! maybe i'll just go see narnia again...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:50:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Instead of just telling the actual story, he uses the event to make an asinine statement that fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism, and worse, all it does is breed more terrorism. He ends the movie with a shot of the World Trade Center towers.

It's really not about Munich '72 at all, it's a condemnation of the US fighting back against al-Qaeda.

And the pisser is, he's made another movie about the consequences of showing your enemy mercy. In Saving Private Ryan, they spare Steamboat Willy the SS soldier, who comes back to kill one of their comrades. But remember, killing Steamboat Willy would just have created more enemies to fight

Spielberg's a great filmmaker, but he's one of those mushy-headed liberals who's not as smart or wise as he thinks, and assumes one's enemy is the moral equivalent of oneself. That's not true. No way were the Nazis, the communists, or al-Qaeda our moral equivalents. And if you think they were or are, you like Spielberg are a blithering idiot.



I'll see it this weekend. I'll think about what you said...Then I'll decide for myself
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:54:13 AM EDT
I already saw it. Yes there's a bit of a liberal slant about killing terrorists, but overall it's a good movie that will keep your attention for 2hrs44mins. There's enough action and gunplay to keep your average arfcommer very happy.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:55:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jb241970:
I already saw it. Yes there's a bit of a liberal slant about killing terrorists, but overall it's a good movie that will keep your attention for 2hrs44mins. There's enough action and gunplay to keep your average arfcommer very happy.

Lord of War proved that that is all it takes
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:09:42 AM EDT
It isn't a documentary, more of a "Historical treatment"- i.e., based on a actual event but not purporting to be 100% accurate. So based on "Munich" who knows if the Israeli agents were wimpering into their pillows or not? Given this latitude, Speilberg has a wide field to run on and I'm sure he'll try to go outside the tackles.

I'd rather read a good factual account of the events. Besides, there won't be any cell phones going off or babies wailing in my den.

If it's a good flick I'll get the DVD and crank up the microwave.

Last movie in a theatre............

Survey SEZ- Polar Express.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:09:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Instead of just telling the actual story, he uses the event to make an asinine statement that fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism, and worse, all it does is breed more terrorism. He ends the movie with a shot of the World Trade Center towers.

It's really not about Munich '72 at all, it's a condemnation of the US fighting back against al-Qaeda.

And the pisser is, he's made another movie about the consequences of showing your enemy mercy. In Saving Private Ryan, they spare Steamboat Willy the SS soldier, who comes back to kill one of their comrades. But remember, killing Steamboat Willy would just have created more enemies to fight

Spielberg's a great filmmaker, but he's one of those mushy-headed liberals who's not as smart or wise as he thinks, and assumes one's enemy is the moral equivalent of oneself. That's not true. No way were the Nazis, the communists, or al-Qaeda our moral equivalents. And if you think they were or are, you like Spielberg are a blithering idiot.



Steamboat Willy was Wermarcht.
The SS soldier at the end was played by a different actor.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:11:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 7:15:07 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Plan on seeing it.

Spielberg usually does a great job.

And if you want to see the BEST documentary of events check out One Day in September (1999)
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:18:22 AM EDT
I doubt it.

'Even-handedness' is NOT something that I would connect with the subject matter.

Better to watch 'The Little Drummer Girl' (1984), with Diane Keaton!

Now that is a fine movie!

(Watch for the cameo appearance by John Le Carre in that film!)

Eric The('WhereWouldYouHaveUsGo,Charley?')Hun
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:19:24 AM EDT
Saw it last week.

Too long (I expected this)

Kinda preachy.

Overall, I'd say it's worth a rental, but not 10 bucks to see it in the theater.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:20:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 7:22:33 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
I doubt it.

'Even-handedness' is NOT something that I would connect with the subject matter.

Better to watch 'The Little Drummer Girl' (1984), with Diane Keaton!

Now that is a fine movie!


that was an amazing flick and a shame more folks have not seen it. if i was teaching a class of wannabee spy masters, i'd open with this flick!

ETA: can't believe it ain't out on dvd!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:21:11 AM EDT
It was a good movie to watch, I mean it was entertaining. But the bullshit runs deep in it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:25:44 AM EDT
Make sure you find a comfortable chair. There were some slow parts in the movie that seemed to drag on.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:27:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By imposter:
Based on this review, I do not get why Spielberg, as a Jew, would falsify history to create moral ambivelence, when in reality there was none. This "cycle of violence" theory, if carried to its logical conclusion, would result in the destruction of the Jewish state. You can't try and be reasonable with people who have an unreasonable hatred of you.



Because he's not a Jew HE"S A LIBERAL
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:27:46 AM EDT
Eric Bana is in Munich. He'll either turn into the Hulk or "Hoot" and kill all the bad guys.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:28:06 AM EDT
wow, I may not now
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:30:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Steamboat Willy was Wermarcht.
The SS soldier at the end was played by a different actor.


Ten pages.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:42:50 AM EDT
I do remember it well, Even though I was only 8 years old. I remember sitting in front of the TV watching the olympics and then having this take over. I couldn't really understand at first what was happening, but by the end, knew. That is when I learned about hatred and what it really means to hate. What bigotry was. How cruel people could really be. And, it was happening less than 200 miles away. It was a sad time in Germany. From the joy of hosting the Olympics for the first time since WWII and then have it turn to this anti-jew incident was devastating to many germans.

I was going to watch it, but finding out how Spielberg twisted this to his own socio-political little propaganda piece, I will not watch it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:04:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Steamboat Willy was Wermarcht.
The SS soldier at the end was played by a different actor.


Ten pages.



Just what I was thinking.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:34:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPTiger:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Steamboat Willy was Wermarcht.
The SS soldier at the end was played by a different actor.


Ten pages.



Just what I was thinking.


you know, i've always thought that was a little unbelievable...how often did waffen ss and wehrmacht troops fight together??? not often. and wouldn't the guys have found an ss uniform lying around if we assume steamboat willie switched uniforms (although i don't see how...)?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:37:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 8:38:55 AM EDT by NYPatriot]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

... if you want to see the BEST documentary of events check out One Day in September (1999)



+1

I saw it again the other day (for the third time) & I can't recommend it highly enough!

Fuck Spielberg & his moral realitivism. I dare anyone to see what actually happened and then tell me that the murderous Palestinian scum didn't have it coming.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:51:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

... if you want to see the BEST documentary of events check out One Day in September (1999)



+1

I saw it again the other day (for the third time) & I can't recommend it highly enough!

Fuck Spielberg & his moral realitivism. I dare anyone to see what actually happened and then tell me that the murderous Palestinian scum didn't have it coming.



It's too bad. He'd have done better making a film about the 72 Olympics and the hostage crisis itself.

I hope it doesn't suck as much as some here say, I'll still check it out.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:19:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:12:12 PM EDT



Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Steamboat Willy was Wermarcht.
The SS soldier at the end was played by a different actor.




Steamboat Wille was released by CPT Miller at the radar site, and later shot him in the final moments of the battle for the bridge.

The SS trooper who killed Adam Goldberg's character inside the building with the knife was a completely different soldier, and actor.

(I hope that is who you are referring to when you say SS soldier, anyway.)



Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:16:44 PM EDT
Good anaylsis, Raven.

I'll pass on this one.

(But, boy, it could have been great! )
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:45:29 PM EDT
Com'on folks this is a Hollywierd movie, the story is loosely BASED on the attack of the '72 Munich Olympics Isreali athetes, but remember this is not a documentary.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:10:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 4:15:38 PM EDT by monkeyman]
Munich is a remake of a TV movie called "The Sword of Gideon" which is based on a novel. It was not written by Spielberg.

It does question whether revenge killings/retribution makes any sense but that it not a liberal issue it is a moral issue. Considering the middle east is still a pissing match it is valid to ask those questions.

It was a pretty good movie.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:55:23 PM EDT
One of the best movies of the year. Very realistic, well thought out and qualityacting and directing. You have to keep in mind there are only about 10 movies ever made that ARF.com approves of.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:01:24 PM EDT
Saw it today. It's long, and slow. About 10% of the audience got up and left before the end. I sat through it, barely. wife was fidgeting noticably by the last 45 mins or so.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:14:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By monkeyman:
Munich is a remake of a TV movie called "The Sword of Gideon" which is based on a novel. It was not written by Spielberg.

It does question whether revenge killings/retribution makes any sense but that it not a liberal issue it is a moral issue. Considering the middle east is still a pissing match it is valid to ask those questions.
It was a pretty good movie.


That was pretty close to my take as well. For context, the Best Man in my wedding was an Arab American, whose family was strongly pro-Palestinian. As a result of our friendship, I've heard many accounts of the Middle East conflict from my friend's father, who fought on the Palestinian side. Our friendship aside, I'm afraid they'd be disappointed to see how different my opinion of the Palestinian cause has become over the past thirty years. Although they're Catholic, and therefore don't share the Muslim worldview, I'm quite sure they feel little remorse over the deaths of Jews in the Middle East.

Honestly, Spielberg's politics are an expectation, not a surprise. The issues in this movie need to be considered by more Americans, especially in our post 9-11 world. Overall, I'm glad I saw it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:20:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By POWER03:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By raven:
Instead of just telling the actual story, he uses the event to make an asinine statement that fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism, and worse, all it does is breed more terrorism. He ends the movie with a shot of the World Trade Center towers.

It's really not about Munich '72 at all, it's a condemnation of the US fighting back against al-Qaeda.

And the pisser is, he's made another movie about the consequences of showing your enemy mercy. In Saving Private Ryan, they spare Steamboat Willy the SS soldier, who comes back to kill one of their comrades. But remember, killing Steamboat Willy would just have created more enemies to fight

Spielberg's a great filmmaker, but he's one of those mushy-headed liberals who's not as smart or wise as he thinks, and assumes one's enemy is the moral equivalent of oneself. That's not true. No way were the Nazis, the communists, or al-Qaeda our moral equivalents. And if you think they were or are, you like Spielberg are a blithering idiot.


Great fucking post, raven.

I'm planning on giving Munich a miss.



That's one of the best posts I have ever read on any subject, period.

+1 Very well written, Raven!





Sure is!

I had heard similar warnings about this one.

The Israeli Mossad agent featured in the film is reportedly livid about his portrayal, and claims it could not be farther from the truth.


F**ing Hollywood
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:18:44 AM EDT
You guys know that the Sword of Gideon was based on a novel that was written back in the 1980's?

You know that Spielberg didn't write the movie?

You know that it based on the novel it is fictional account of a mossad agent who is tasked with killing the planners of the Munich Olympic attacks. It is hardly sympathic to terrorism. In fact I think it condems Europe's placating of terrorism back then, and perhaps today. On the other hand it explores the dicotomy of revenge and the price paid by both an individual and government, from both a moral and political standpoint.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:22:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By POWER03:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By raven:
Instead of just telling the actual story, he uses the event to make an asinine statement that fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism, and worse, all it does is breed more terrorism. He ends the movie with a shot of the World Trade Center towers.

It's really not about Munich '72 at all, it's a condemnation of the US fighting back against al-Qaeda.

And the pisser is, he's made another movie about the consequences of showing your enemy mercy. In Saving Private Ryan, they spare Steamboat Willy the SS soldier, who comes back to kill one of their comrades. But remember, killing Steamboat Willy would just have created more enemies to fight

Spielberg's a great filmmaker, but he's one of those mushy-headed liberals who's not as smart or wise as he thinks, and assumes one's enemy is the moral equivalent of oneself. That's not true. No way were the Nazis, the communists, or al-Qaeda our moral equivalents. And if you think they were or are, you like Spielberg are a blithering idiot.


Great fucking post, raven.

I'm planning on giving Munich a miss.



That's one of the best posts I have ever read on any subject, period.

+1 Very well written, Raven!





Sure is!

I had heard similar warnings about this one.

The Israeli Mossad agent featured in the film is reportedly livid about his portrayal, and claims it could not be farther from the truth.


F**ing Hollywood



That...and they should have starred Vin Diesel
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:16:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Instead of just telling the actual story, he uses the event to make an asinine statement that fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism, and worse, all it does is breed more terrorism. He ends the movie with a shot of the World Trade Center towers.

It's really not about Munich '72 at all, it's a condemnation of the US fighting back against al-Qaeda.



Spielberg's a great filmmaker, but he's one of those mushy-headed liberals who's not as smart or wise as he thinks, and assumes one's enemy is the moral equivalent of oneself. That's not true. No way were the Nazis, the communists, or al-Qaeda our moral equivalents. And if you think they were or are, you like Spielberg are a blithering idiot.



I just saw it and I didn't see ANYTHING like you describe.

I'm sure on Stormfront they are decrying it as an Israeli propaganda film and in all likelyhood DUh.com is condemning it as an Israeli apologist film.

I didn't see any messages that suggest fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism. I only saw a film that tried to realiistically depict the events following 1972. The message was just as easily "no matter what you do there will still be terrorism."

While I think the goals were probably to be objective and honest, the Paestinains were shown to be what they are and so were the Israelis and groups like the CIA, if any bias exists it was slightly in favor of Israel. That said, given the actual events, that would probably be the accurate thing to do.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:29:50 PM EDT
Funny, I thought I would have seen it by now. Funny how three kids under the age of 5 and a wicked case of the Flu can wreck your schedule.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:38:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Plan on seeing it.

Spielberg usually does a great job.

And if you want to see the BEST documentary of events check out One Day in September (1999)



I saw Munich about a week or two ago, and want to see this documentary, I just need to find out which store has a copy of it. I want to see how much BS was put into Munich. From what I have read, the Israeli reaction is what he twisted, the actual hostage scenes are fairly acurate, in terms of what happened.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:04:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

... if you want to see the BEST documentary of events check out One Day in September (1999)




That doesn't cover the "revenge element" does it?
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:07:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By POWER03:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By raven:
Instead of just telling the actual story, he uses the event to make an asinine statement that fighting terrorism is just as bad as terrorism, and worse, all it does is breed more terrorism. He ends the movie with a shot of the World Trade Center towers.

It's really not about Munich '72 at all, it's a condemnation of the US fighting back against al-Qaeda.

And the pisser is, he's made another movie about the consequences of showing your enemy mercy. In Saving Private Ryan, they spare Steamboat Willy the SS soldier, who comes back to kill one of their comrades. But remember, killing Steamboat Willy would just have created more enemies to fight

Spielberg's a great filmmaker, but he's one of those mushy-headed liberals who's not as smart or wise as he thinks, and assumes one's enemy is the moral equivalent of oneself. That's not true. No way were the Nazis, the communists, or al-Qaeda our moral equivalents. And if you think they were or are, you like Spielberg are a blithering idiot.


Great fucking post, raven.

I'm planning on giving Munich a miss.



That's one of the best posts I have ever read on any subject, period.

+1 Very well written, Raven!



Ditto
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:17:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zaphar:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Plan on seeing it.

Spielberg usually does a great job.

And if you want to see the BEST documentary of events check out One Day in September (1999)



I saw Munich about a week or two ago, and want to see this documentary, I just need to find out which store has a copy of it. I want to see how much BS was put into Munich. From what I have read, the Israeli reaction is what he twisted, the actual hostage scenes are fairly acurate, in terms of what happened.



The hostage scenario is dead on and Spielberg used a LOT of actual footage.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:18:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

... if you want to see the BEST documentary of events check out One Day in September (1999)




That doesn't cover the "revenge element" does it?




It is covered by only amounts to about the last 10% or so.
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