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Posted: 1/5/2006 9:08:34 PM EDT






My friend called me over around dinner (which is why the table is set) and had me look at this gun of his. He found it in the attic, it looks fairly old. The only markings I could find were that it's made by Remington, and something about 1874. So, what is this gun? Also, around how much would it be worth? He doesn't want it and is looking for a fair pricing.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:11:34 PM EDT
Old.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:14:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 9:19:41 PM EDT by Maxxx]
Remington rolling block. Probably in 45-70. Will get back with more info.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:14:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
1874 remington rolling block. Probably in 45-70. Will get back with more info.



Awesome, thank you.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:21:11 PM EDT
Was made pre-1874 I think.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:25:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
Remington rolling block. Probably in 45-70. Will get back with more info.




that kinda what I was thinking
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:25:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
Was made pre-1874 I think.



Any idea on what these things go for? It's slighty rusted at spots, front leaf sight is pretty much all rust, bore has some pitting.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:27:33 PM EDT
Model 1897 Rolling block or some kind of #4 rolling block is as close as I can come.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:28:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
Was made pre-1874 I think.



Any idea on what these things go for? It's slighty rusted at spots, front leaf sight is pretty much all rust, bore has some pitting.




its worth about 150,000.00 and i will tell you why in a minute.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:29:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
Was made pre-1874 I think.



Any idea on what these things go for? It's slighty rusted at spots, front leaf sight is pretty much all rust, bore has some pitting.




its worth about 150,000.00 and i will tell you why in a minute.



I know it's not worth anything much, my friend wants to sell it though and knows jack about firearms. Him and his brothers used to play "War" with it in the woods. Just would appreciate a conservative estimate.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:30:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 9:32:37 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]
yep a remington rolling block or a copy ( they did a few in South America )
any markings?
i have seen refinshsed probably not safe examples for $300 or so
probably .43 spainsh caliber
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:31:14 PM EDT
Remington rolling blocks were used by the US Army and it looks like you have one that would have been issued. (I think the civy version had a shorter forestock). As for value, I have no clue.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:32:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By walrus:
Also, around how much would it be worth? He doesn't want it and is looking for a fair pricing.



He may want it more, when he learns what it's actually worth.

Not that I know, but clicky here for a similar model currently at auction.

Search gunbroker.com for further comparables. Rolling block, 1874, antique remington, etc..

Tell him to hang on to it, at least 'till he's educated himself about it's history much more.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:32:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
Was made pre-1874 I think.



Any idea on what these things go for? It's slighty rusted at spots, front leaf sight is pretty much all rust, bore has some pitting.




its worth about 150,000.00 and i will tell you why in a minute.



I know it's not worth anything much, my friend wants to sell it though and knows jack about firearms. Him and his brothers used to play "War" with it in the woods. Just would appreciate a conservative estimate.



you right i was just joshing ya, nice conversation peice though im sure it has some family history to it, i was trying to find someone famous who carried one and say it was his, but i forgot that famous general fromt he spanish american war though. sorry............hey you nver know??, it may be worth that much to you??
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:33:15 PM EDT
"I'd like old pieces of shit for $200, Alex!"
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:35:20 PM EDT
(E. Remington & Sons. ILION, N.Y. U.S.A. PAT. May xx 1864 May 7th, June 11th, Nov. 12th, Dec. 24th, Dec. 31st 1872 Sept. 9th 1873 Jan. 12th, March 18th 1874)

^
Taken from auction link

The rifle has the similar markings, but they are quite faded. I could barely make out Remington on it. It has a small P proof mark on the barrel, and on one band I beleive. It's missing some screws, but does have the cleaning rod. It's currently back at his house after I cleaned the bore out for him and oiled the metal. Would it be better to leave it in the current condition or restore it?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:37:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
Was made pre-1874 I think.



Any idea on what these things go for? It's slighty rusted at spots, front leaf sight is pretty much all rust, bore has some pitting.




its worth about 150,000.00 and i will tell you why in a minute.



I know it's not worth anything much, my friend wants to sell it though and knows jack about firearms. Him and his brothers used to play "War" with it in the woods. Just would appreciate a conservative estimate.



you right i was just joshing ya, nice conversation peice though im sure it has some family history to it, i was trying to find someone famous who carried one and say it was his, but i forgot that famous general fromt he spanish american war though. sorry............hey you nver know??, it may be worth that much to you??



It has no value to him whatsoever for some reason. It's an old rifle their grandfather gave to them.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:39:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
yep a remington rolling block or a copy ( they did a few in South America )
any markings?
i have seen refinshsed probably not safe examples for $300 or so
probably .43 spainsh caliber



+1 (or ?.43? Egyptian). Cool design for a rifle, IMO.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:40:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By walrus:
Would it be better to leave it in the current condition or restore it?



Don't even THINK about "Restoring" it.

Absolutely, leave it as it is.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:40:46 PM EDT
Do NOT try to resore it. Maybe replace missing parts, but don't do anything to the wood or metal.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:41:29 PM EDT
[vpc]That's an assualt weapon![/vpc]

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:43:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhatForrest:
[vpc]That's an assualt weapon![/vpc]




"Rolling block... sounds like you could knock down a city with that"
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:49:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 9:51:32 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
yep a remington rolling block or a copy ( they did a few in South America )
any markings?
i have seen refinshsed probably not safe examples for $300 or so
probably .43 spainsh caliber



They did a shit load of them for all over the world they… went to dozens of countries, State militias and to civilians... a few to the US Army and Navy. It was the most widely exported US rifle of its day 1.5 million+ made.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:56:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
yep a remington rolling block or a copy ( they did a few in South America )
any markings?
i have seen refinshsed probably not safe examples for $300 or so
probably .43 spainsh caliber



They did a shit load of them for all over the world they… went to dozens of countries, State militias and to civilians... a few to the US Army and Navy. It was the most widely exported US rifle of its day 1.5 million+ made.



More info here.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:56:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
Originally Posted By walrus:

I know it's not worth anything much, my friend wants to sell it though and knows jack about firearms. Him and his brothers used to play "War" with it in the woods. Just would appreciate a conservative estimate.



It has no value to him whatsoever for some reason. It's an old rifle their grandfather gave to them.



Sad.

So wrong, for so many reasons.

Buy it from your ignorant friend for $25. That's an honest estimation of it's current value.

Maybe one day he'll understand what it really represents and what it's truely worth, & at least have a chance to get it back.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:59:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By parshooter:

Originally Posted By walrus:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
Originally Posted By walrus:

I know it's not worth anything much, my friend wants to sell it though and knows jack about firearms. Him and his brothers used to play "War" with it in the woods. Just would appreciate a conservative estimate.



It has no value to him whatsoever for some reason. It's an old rifle their grandfather gave to them.



Sad.

So wrong, for so many reasons.

Buy it from your ignorant friend for $25. That's an honest estimation of it's current value.

Maybe one day he'll understand what it really represents and what it's truely worth, & at least have a chance to get it back.



I don't really understand it either, but it's not really my battle to fight. Him and the family aren't much into guns (he had told me his dad had turned a pistol that his grandfather gave him into the police because he didn't want it in the house). I took him and a brother shooting earlier this week, and they seemed to have a good time. I think perhaps when I told them it's not shootable, then they instantly assume it should be sold. It just appears it has no sentimental value to them, and the idea of $ sounds better.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:12:28 PM EDT
BTT for the price question, as well as another question. Would this be considered an antique, meaning it wouldn't have to go through FFL's and junk if sold?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:14:51 PM EDT
Looks like the Sharps rifle in Unforgiven.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:59:04 AM EDT
Daytime bump for a price estimate.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:07:57 AM EDT
dude just buy it from the guy for $25 and keep it around until he pulls his head out of his ass.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:19:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tugboat:
Looks like the Sharps rifle in Unforgiven.



That was a spencer, and this, I believe, is a rolling block.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:52:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By walrus:

... back at his house after I cleaned the bore out for him and oiled the metal. Would it be better to leave it in the current condition or restore it?



It's a Remington Rolling Block, which was the most popular single shot breech loading rifle of the late 19th Century. Rolling Blocks were used by a ton of countries, from the US Navy, to Spain, Sweden, Norway, and Egypt. Please don't try to "restore" it. Doing so will dramatically reduce the collector value.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:53:24 PM EDT
Walrus,

3 IMs sent with current Blue Book values.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:15:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kissfan:
Walrus,

3 IMs sent with current Blue Book values.



Share with us.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:32:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IceHandLuke:

Originally Posted By kissfan:
Walrus,

3 IMs sent with current Blue Book values.



Share with us.



OK... Didn't want to overload the post... but here goes...

REVOLVING PERCUSSION RIFLE
- .36 or .44 (rare) cal., 6 shot unfluted cylinder, 24 or 28 in. octagon barrel, walnut stock with crescent butt, scroll triggerguard, blue with case hardened frame. Fewer than 1,000 mfg. 1866-72.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A N/A $18,000 $12,000 $6,000 $5,000 $4,000 $3,500 $3,000 $2,500 $2,250 $2,000
Receivers were made especially for this model, and are not altered New Model revolvers. .38 R.F. factory conversions will be serial numbered on the recoil plate and cylinder. The ultimate in rarity in Remington Revolving Rifles is the .46 rimfire cal. Only three of this model are presently known.

MODEL 1862 "ZOUAVE RIFLE"
- .58 cal., muzzle loading percussion, 33 in. round barrel, two barrel bands, blue barrel, case hardened lock, brass furniture. Mfg. 12,501, 1862-65.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $4,500 $4,250 $4,000 $3,500 $2,750 $2,250 $2,000 $1,750 $1,500 $1,250 $1,000
Add $450 for correct sword type bayonette in excellent condition.
Most models are in excellent condition, as few, if any, were distributed to the troops during the Civil War.

U.S. NAVY M1867 ROLLING BLOCK CARBINE
- .50-45 centerfire cal., 23 1/4 in. barrel, open sight, blue with case hardened frame, bar and ring on frame, walnut straight grip stock. Mfg. 5,000, 1868-69. Mfg. by Springfield Armory from receivers made by E. Remington & Sons in Ilion, NY.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A N/A $4,000 $3,000 $2,500 $2,000 $1,750 $1,500 $1,250 $1,000 $750 $500

U.S. NAVY "ANNAPOLIS CADET" MILITARY RIFLE
- .50-45 centerfire cal., Mfg. by Springfield Armory utilizing rolling block receivers supplied by E. Remington & Sons in Ilion, NY. Mfg. 1868.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A N/A $4,000 $3,000 $2,500 $2,000 $1,750 $1,500 $1,250 $1,000 $750 $500
Add $150 for correct angular bayonet in excellent condition.

U.S. ARMY MODEL 1870 "EXPERIMENTAL" CARBINE
- .50-70 Govt. cal., single shot, rolling block action with sling ring on left side of receiver, mfg. by Springfield Armory under license from E. Remington & Sons. 331 mfg. 1870.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A N/A $12,000 $10,000 $9,000 $8,000 $7,000 $6,000 $5,000 $4,000 $3,500 $3,000
This model is extremely rare, and fewer than six are known to be in private hands.

U.S. ARMY MODEL 1870 "EXPERIMENTAL" MILITARY RIFLE
- .50-70 Govt. cal., single shot, rolling block action, mfg. by Springfield Armory under license from E. Remington & Sons. Mfg. 1870.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A N/A $6,000 $5,500 $5,000 $4,500 $4,000 $2,750 $2,250 $1,750 $1,250 $1,000
Approx. 1,041 were mfg. 1870 and issued to infantry troops on the frontier for trial. This is a rarely encountered Springfield firearm.

U.S. NAVY MODEL 1870 (TYPES 1 & 2) MILITARY RIFLE
- mfg. by Springfield Armory under license from E. Remington & Sons. Mfg. 1870.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $5,000 $4,500 $4,000 $3,000 $2,000 $1,500 $1,250 $1,000 $800 $1,000 $600
Add $300-$600 for correct Ames sword bayonet.
10,000 of these models were mfg. in 1870, but were not accepted by the U.S. Navy, reputedly because of the "unsafe" location of the rear sight (too close to the chamber). These "Type 1" Navy rifles were sold to Poultney & Trimble, who sold them to France. Springfield Armory subsequently manufactured 14,000 "Type 2" rifles with the rear sight moved up the barrel, and these models were accepted by the U.S. Navy. Values are the same for both types.

U.S. ARMY MODEL 1871 MILITARY RIFLE
- .50-70 Govt. cal., single shot, rolling block action, mfg. by Springfield Armory under license from E. Remington & Sons. Mfg. 1872.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $3,500 $3,250 $2,750 $2,000 $1,750 $1,500 $1,200 $900 $700 $500 $400
Add $50-$75 for angular bayonet.
10,101 of these models were mfg., but there is no evidence to suggest that they were ever issued to the troops. As a result, many of these models can be found in excellent or above average condition.

NO. 1 LONG RANGE "CREEDMOOR"
- .44-77, .44-90, or .44-100 cal., rolling block, barrel 1/3 octagon, case hardened receiver, long range tang sight, globe front sight, checkered pistol grip stock, blue. Approx. 500 mfg., 1873-1878.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A N/A $10,000 $8,500 $6,250 $4,475 $3,875 $3,175 $2,700 $2,475 $2,150 $1,800
Add premiums for higher grade guns with select wood, additional checkering, and other deluxe features.
Factory cased guns are rarely encounted.

NO. 1 SPORTING RIFLE
- rolling block, .40-50, .40-70, .44-70, .44-77, .45-70, .50-45, or .50-70 centerfire, .38 or .46 rimfire cal., 28 or 30 in. octagon barrels, folding leaf sight, straight grip stock. Approx. 10,000 mfg., 1868-86.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $6,000 $5,000 $3,500 $3,000 $2,500 $2,000 $1,500 $1,000 $750 $500 $300
Subtract 25% for rimfire cals.
Add 20% for .44-77, .45-70, or .50-70 cal. (primary buffalo hunting cals.).

NO. 1 1/2 SPORTING RIFLE
- .22, .25 Stevens, .25 Long, .32, and .38 Long & Extra Long rimfire cal., also in .32-20 WCF, .38-40 WCF, and .44-40 WCF, 24-28 in. octagon medium weight barrel, straight grip walnut stock, somewhat lighter than the No. 1 Sporting. Several thousand mfg., 1888-97.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $3,500 $3,000 $2,500 $1,750 $1,250 $900 $800 $650 $550 $450 $300
Add 20% for centerfire cals.

NO. 2 SPORTING RIFLE
- available in many rimfire cals. between .22 and .38 as well as several centerfire cals. between .22 and .38-40 WCF, blue barrel finish with case hardened frame, perch belly style walnut stock, many special orders available, smaller size action than the No. 1 and rear of frame is curved, mfg. 1873-1909.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $3,000 $2,750 $2,000 $1,000 $750 $700 $600 $400 $300 $200 $150

LIGHT BABY CARBINE
- rolling block, .44-40 WCF cal., 20 in. lightweight round blue barrel with band, straight stock, nickel or case colored receiver. Several thousand mfg., 1892-1902, a few are known to exist in .44 Long rimfire cal.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $5,000 $4,750 $4,000 $3,500 $2,750 $2,250 $1,750 $1,500 $1,000 $750 $600
Add 25% for blue barrel with color case hardened receiver.

REMINGTON - HEPBURN NO. 3
- falling block, single shot, side lever actuated, blue barrel, case hardened actions, patented 1879, first introduced 1880, many custom features were offered, variations as follows:
View SubModels

NO. 4 ROLLING BLOCK RIFLE
- .22 S-L-LR, .25 Stevens (barrels marked "25-10"), or .32 Short or Long cal. rimfire, 22 1/2 octagon barrel standard with round barrels available late in the series, smooth bore barrel was introduced approx. 1911, blue finish with case hardened frame, solid frame initially followed by takedown in 2 different types (lever release introduced approx. 1901, screw in approx. 1926), this model was Remington´s smallest rolling block. Approx. 350,000 mfg. 1890-1933.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $1,000 $800 $700 $500 $400 $275 $200 $175 $150 $100 $75
Solid frame variations will command a premium, especially if over 90% original condition.
View SubModels

NO. 6 FALLING BLOCK RIFLE
- .22 S-L-LR or .32 short or long rimfire cal., 20 in. round barrel, boy´s gun with small dimensions, takedown action, case hardened (early mfg.) or blue finish, also available in smooth bore, 497,000 mfg. 1901-33.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $600 $500 $450 $300 $275 $250 $175 $150 $125 $100 $75
Add 10% for smooth bore barrel.
Original case colors will bring a premium on this model.

NO. 7 ROLLING BLOCK RIFLE
- .22 S, .22 LR, or .25-10 Stev. rimfire cal., constructed on Rem. Model 1871 SS pistol action frame, 24, 26, or 28 in. 1/2 round, 1/2 octagon tapered barrels, marked "REMINGTON ARMS CO. ILION, NY USA" on barrel top flat, dinstictive long tang pistol grip stock, checkered pistol grip and forearm, hard rubber buttplate, available in Target or Sporting configurations, with or w/o special Lyman tang mounted sight, ser. no. range 300,000. Last of the Rolling Block Rifles. Approx. 350 mfg. 1903-10.

Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10%
N/A $8,500 $7,000 $6,250 $5,500 $4,900 $4,300 $3,700 $3,100 $2,650 $2,250 $1,750
Add $300 for Lyman folding tang sight.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:09:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:

Originally Posted By walrus:

... back at his house after I cleaned the bore out for him and oiled the metal. Would it be better to leave it in the current condition or restore it?



It's a Remington Rolling Block, which was the most popular single shot breech loading rifle of the late 19th Century. Rolling Blocks were used by a ton of countries, from the US Navy, to Spain, Sweden, Norway, and Egypt. Please don't try to "restore" it. Doing so will dramatically reduce the collector value.



As everyone has put restore into quotes, let me clear up what I meant. No, not bubba the shit out of it, just clean up the wood and take some rust off the metal. I've done it with a few old surplus rifles. I simply asked the question after seeing the one auction link rifle had been restored. Just wanted to make that clear. But still, I will not do that to it per the advice given.
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