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Posted: 1/5/2006 1:15:30 PM EDT
The question was posed in another thread along with hypothetical situations.

I contend that, yes, indeed, it is always wrong (sin) to lie.

What say you?

I think a poll will be interesting.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:16:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
The question was posed in another thread along with hypothetical situations.

I contend that, yes, indeed, it is always wrong (sin) to lie.

What say you?

I think a poll will be interesting.



Yes. IBTP.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:16:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 1:16:59 PM EDT by ScaryBlackGuns]
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:18:10 PM EDT
I am a situationalist... in other words, depends on the situation at hand.

You can't use blanket statements, black and white doesn't work all that well.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:18:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG



He didn't ask if you would or wouldn't. He asked if it was wrong to do so.

Besides. No is still the correct response. If she needs clarification, tell her that 'Your fat ass looks big on its own.'
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:19:02 PM EDT

Not always, but almost always.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:19:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG



Knowing when to lie can save lives...maybee your own.....ummm no dear their dead sexy.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:19:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG



Just fake a seizure on the floor when asked that.

Only sure way out.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:19:59 PM EDT
in my line of work(ems) there are somethings you have to lie about, mostly to dead peoples families about painful deaths and stuff like that, always say it was quick no suffering.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:20:15 PM EDT
No. For a federal agent infiltrating an Al Quaeda cell or something like that it's ok.

Or when a burglar has you at gunpoint and asks if there's anyone else in the house or something.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:20:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Not always, but almost always.




When is it not wrong to lie? Clarification, please? This is an honest question.

That's not to say i'm all holier than thou or anything. I lie. More than I would like. I am not above sin or above reproach. But I cannot think of a single time in my life that i've lied, and not regretted, to myself, doing it.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:20:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:22:04 PM EDT
[ 1 ] I just want to see how many liers we have here [ 5.56% ]

I voted for that and look!

It is a sign to buy more ammo!

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:24:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG



The proper answer is, "No. Vision makes your ass look fat. The pants have nothing to do with it."
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:26:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG



The proper answer is, "No. Vision makes your ass look fat. The pants have nothing to do with it."



I like this answer.. yet it probably means no nookie for awhile (if ever ).

"No.. the pants don't make your ass look big, your ass makes your ass look big"
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:26:14 PM EDT
The proper answer is, "those pants make your ass look FIIIIIINE, baby!"

Anyway, no, it's not always wrong to lie.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:27:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
"No.. the pants don't make your ass look big, your ass makes your ass look big"


Heheheh.

+1.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:27:26 PM EDT
Your question is an interesting one.

As a Christian, I am encouraged to always tell the truth. My "yes's" should mean Yes, and my "no's" mean No. I should speak the truth.

If I tell a lie just for personal gain, there is no question that it is a sin.

But what if you are visiting someone and the hostest gives you something to eat and it tastes terrible. She asks, "How do you like the (whatever)?"

Is it required for me to say, "It is terrible."?

Or should I be less than totally honest and say, "It tastes fine", and choke it down.

Is rudeness to someone a greater sin than withholding the honest truth?

Not an easy question to answer.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:27:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG



Or how about "You been drinking tonight?"

I cannot tell a lie, sir ........... NO I HAVEN'T

Anyway, ethical conduct is not conditional. The truth is the truth and you must live it always.

Really, without truth, what do you have? What good is anything if it's based on a lie?

...........However, show me someone who says he always tells the truth, and I'll show you one big fat liar.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:29:49 PM EDT
i'm with OP..................if you're telling a lie that only benefits yourself then i think you're fucking up

otherwise it's situational with a huge bend on mostly being wrong
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:30:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 1:31:16 PM EDT by Wobblin-Goblin]
Hmmm. 68% of the responders think that there are occasions where lying is not wrong/sin.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:31:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 1:32:44 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By mattimeo:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Not always, but almost always.




When is it not wrong to lie? Clarification, please? This is an honest question.

That's not to say i'm all holier than thou or anything. I lie. More than I would like. I am not above sin or above reproach. But I cannot think of a single time in my life that i've lied, and not regretted, to myself, doing it.



There are several examples (some posted above).

One is law enforcement or national security. I think it is okay for a police officer to lie in order to catch a pedophile or drug dealer or murderer. If a mobster has a gun pointed to an undecover officer's head and asks him if he is a cop, would it be "wrong" for him to lie? I'd like to think that a CIA agent would be willing to tell a lie or two to get Al Qaeda agents to trust him and tell him where Osama Bin Laden is hiding.

Another example is in the medical community. Suppose that someone's child died - through no fault of their own, but some kind of tragic accident. (But, knowing parents, they will likely blame themselves for not having been there, or not able to do something anyway). Now suppose that the parents ask the doctor if the child suffered. If the doc knows that the kid probably DID suffer for quite a while, and died in agony - should he really explain this in great detail to the parents?



As a general rule, of course lying is wrong. But I don't think it is an absolute, 100% of the time kind of rule.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:34:08 PM EDT
There are alternatives to lying, no?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:37:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 1:40:08 PM EDT by garandman]
In case of war or personal safety, I can give you Scriptural examples where deception (which is the same as lying) was used to save lives / defeat those with whom God's people were at war with.

In these cases there is no indication from the passage that the lies were wrong.

In all other cases, I'd say lying is wrong.

In fact, Prov 6 says lying is one of the things God hates the most.



Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:38:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG



Just fake a seizure on the floor when asked that.

Only sure way out.





Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:39:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 1:42:02 PM EDT by Searcherfortruth]
Yes it is always wrong. There is no such thing as a "white" lie. But there in lies the rub, even exzageration is a form of lying, or saying always or never, when it's just the most correct answer.

Like I always clean my guns after shooting, when you mostly have.

Or I told her a million times not to leave the kitchen.

Just eat a Snikers bar, or is it Twix in the commercial?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:39:53 PM EDT
No if it helps me, yes if it don't
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:40:21 PM EDT
Would it be wrong if you lie to protect your children/spouse/loved ones?
I'd do whatever I had to to keep them safe.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:42:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

If I tell a lie just for personal gain, there is no question that it is a sin.

But what if you are visiting someone and the hostest gives you something to eat and it tastes terrible. She asks, "How do you like the (whatever)?"

Is it required for me to say, "It is terrible."?

Or should I be less than totally honest and say, "It tastes fine", and choke it down.





If ever God would tolerate a lie (no indication from Scrpture that He does) it would be the lie that is NOT for personal gain.

Of course, lying about how the hosts food tastes IS a lie for personal gain.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:46:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By mattimeo:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Not always, but almost always.




When is it not wrong to lie? Clarification, please? This is an honest question.

That's not to say i'm all holier than thou or anything. I lie. More than I would like. I am not above sin or above reproach. But I cannot think of a single time in my life that i've lied, and not regretted, to myself, doing it.



There are several examples (some posted above).

One is law enforcement or national security. I think it is okay for a police officer to lie in order to catch a pedophile or drug dealer or murderer. If a mobster has a gun pointed to an undecover officer's head and asks him if he is a cop, would it be "wrong" for him to lie? I'd like to think that a CIA agent would be willing to tell a lie or two to get Al Qaeda agents to trust him and tell him where Osama Bin Laden is hiding.

Another example is in the medical community. Suppose that someone's child died - through no fault of their own, but some kind of tragic accident. (But, knowing parents, they will likely blame themselves for not having been there, or not able to do something anyway). Now suppose that the parents ask the doctor if the child suffered. If the doc knows that the kid probably DID suffer for quite a while, and died in agony - should he really explain this in great detail to the parents?




As a general rule, of course lying is wrong. But I don't think it is an absolute, 100% of the time kind of rule.



I guess I kind of see the need, & to some extent agree. Kind of hard not to given the situation's above.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:46:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 1:47:45 PM EDT by James23]



As a general rule, of course lying is wrong. But I don't think it is an absolute, 100% of the time kind of rule.



I think that's the short of it. If it's not the truth, it's always wrong. But there may be mitigating factors that lead to a lie being the sensible and responsible option.

Your example of the doctor with bad news about a child is a good one. As a parent, would you want the whole truth from a doctor regarding the treatment of your child? I would think I would.

Would it be wrong to lie to a parent to save them the agony of the realisation that their child suffered terribly? Yes, totally wrong, but it has to be argued that the end result is right (sparing a parent from a lifetime of pain added to the pain of the loss of the child).

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:47:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
There are alternatives to lying, no?



Yes.

Two to the body, one to the head.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:49:19 PM EDT
It's always BETTER to tell the truth, but not always possible.

It sucks, but there it is.

That said, if I didn't tell the truth as much as I do, I'd be a VP making $300K by now, instead of unemployed.

Still, I'd rather earn it telling the truth....
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:50:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James23:



As a general rule, of course lying is wrong. But I don't think it is an absolute, 100% of the time kind of rule.



I think that's the short of it. If it's not the truth, it's always wrong. But there may be mitigating factors that lead to a lie being the sensible and responsible option.

Your example of the doctor with bad news about a child is a good one. As a parent, would you want the whole truth from a doctor regarding the treatment of your child? I would think I would.

Would it be wrong to lie to a parent to save them the agony of the realisation that their child suffered terribly? Yes, totally wrong, but it has to be argued that the end result is right (sparing a parent from a lifetime of pain added to the pain of the loss of the child).




Yes, yes, yes. And herein I think we see the point. Wrong and necessary and prudent are different things.

I think that all lying is wrong all the time. Have I lied? Yes. Was I wrong? Yes. Were things better off because I lied? Yes, at times, they were. Lying can indeed serve a nobler purpose. But it is still wrong.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:52:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
It's always BETTER to tell the truth, but not always possible.

It sucks, but there it is.

That said, if I didn't tell the truth as much as I do, I'd be a VP making $300K by now, instead of unemployed.

Still, I'd rather earn it telling the truth....



"But you're rich in other ways."
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:21:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattimeo:
And herein I think we see the point. Wrong and necessary and prudent are different things.

I think that all lying is wrong all the time. Have I lied? Yes. Was I wrong? Yes. Were things better off because I lied? Yes, at times, they were. Lying can indeed serve a nobler purpose. But it is still wrong.


Damn. That's a good answer. In fact, it's the best one.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:25:50 PM EDT
It's *nearly* always wrong to lie. I just clicked "yes" though.

I would have to think hard on a situation where I'd lie intentionally. If I were kidnapped by a bad guy then asked where someone I knew lived, I could lie. It would be the "right" thing to do.

I'm really not very good at lying. I don't like to do it. I was brought up right.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:28:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 2:29:51 PM EDT by SubnetMask]

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
But what if you are visiting someone and the hostest gives you something to eat and it tastes terrible. She asks, "How do you like the (whatever)?"



Lie and ask for forgiveness later.

I suppose the "correct" answer to your dilema is "No". Tact is important here. "Well, it's not my favorite dish, but being invited into your home and eating with you more than makes up for it".

You haven't lied, and you weren't rude.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:28:42 PM EDT
Bearing false witness is always a sin. For other kinds of lies, it depends on the circumstances.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:44:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Bearing false witness is always a sin. For other kinds of lies, it depends on the circumstances.



We have a winner yes ..think about this...

Next time you see a ugly wrinkily new born baby tell the mom that its ugly then get ready to run...
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:13:17 PM EDT
Just as an interesting sub-set to this subject.....

When I was a boy, I was taught to "tell the truth". And I did so.

When I was a young man, I became a Police Officer and had to deal with people that lied all the time. I was amazed.

I remember feeling kinship with Joseph Wambaugh, when I read in his book about police work, "Some people will lie when only the truth would save them."

This is so true. Some people become so adapt at lying, that they will lie when it makes absolutely no difference.

I was amazed when, as a new policeman, I would question two people about something. They would tell stories that were 180 degrees apart. One of them (at least) was lying. But both were crying and wringing their hands and saying, "I'm telling the God's truth. You must believe me!"

It is a hard thing in life to realize that some people will almost always lie.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 4:04:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Ever heard the question:

"Do these pants make my ass look fat?"

SBG



And my response is to grab her, put her in a chicken wing lock, slam her face first against the wall and say "who's asking the questions now punk?!"


Works every time! LOL

If my wife sees this I may not be able to post for a while.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:40:49 PM EDT
Since I don't believe in the concept of sin, I don't believe lying is a sin. I do believe that it is unethical to tell a lie that would hurt someone else. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with telling a lie to protect someone from undeserved harm.
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